MS Obito vs Mu

[maniaoqan]

Correct. But when Mu is invisible, his chakra also becomes invisible, not just his physical body. That's why he wasn't able to be sensed by ordinary means by the sensor division. That's why Obito cannot see him when he's invisible.



I already know that. That's probably the reason why he has to become visible to use jinton genius. However, stabbing Obito with a blade doesn't require him to become visible and give away his position. Also, comparing EMS madara to the obito situation is stupid. Once Madara uses his complete susanoo(he used it in the manga against Mu and Ohnoki) the only way they have of breaking through his defences is by using Jinton-and that requires Mu to become visible and gives away his position. MS obito has no such technique.



Irrelevant.

1- Obito doesn't need Susano'o genius. While I compare him to Madara I meant about their capability to see, not the powers of their Mangekyo. Obito can see Mu even if he goes invisible therefor Mu can't sneak up on him.
2- Mu's chakra is not invisible. He uses chakra to make himself invisible. Sharingan can see chakra, any type, any element it does not matter against sharingan's capability to see them.
3- Obito can see the chakra build up if Mu tries Jinton and make precautions. Such as Flame formations or just going intangible altough jinton and kamui is restricted which changes nothing as Obito still can see Mu with Sharingan.
4-And about the picture, I think it fit there just well to make my point.

 

[Apêx1]

Nope,

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,
hence why the shinobi alliance were unable to locate him,
unless youre telling me that obitos sensing or locating skills are better than the entire SA, Lol

the scans that you have posted, are still irrelevant as they still involve things like heat changes, on top of the fact that obito can clearly see his opponents and feel their presense,
in this battle this isnt happening, when muus entire presense is hidden, meaning that obitos so called perceptive skills are not doing shit

and what are you on about?
how does obito react to something when he cant even locate or feel its presense?
its like saying that obito reacts to air, because air moves, thats just ridiculous

if Obito tries to not go intangible then Muu senses him, and then proceeds to slit his throat through his sword, where obito would have no idea on the formers location, let alone attack muu, Lol

and you can also read Evanis post, he has summed it up quite well​

What? The SA have no way of sensing heat changes or shifts of air when he's not even close to them.. If he wants to attack Obito, he's going to have to get close, and to get close means to actually move, to actually move means that you are creating shifts in the air, unless you are claiming he's in a seperate dimension while Invisible, Lol. In the scan of him Warping to the Raikiri Kunai, he didn't see anything as he was clearly looking at Naruto, whereas the Raikiri came from a 90 degree angle towards him, definitely out of his LoS. So no, shifts in the air still occur, heat change is still occurring since you can't hide something like that. The only thing he is hiding is his chakra and the light that passes through him, the rest is still present unless you can prove otherwise, as I have no reason to prove shifts in the air disappear, and no reason to believe he can lower his body temperature to match that of the atmosphere.

You have to remember that Naruto characters move at hypersonic speeds. If someone is running at 10m/s behind you and you don't hear or see anything, you can still feel wind move past you. Multiply that till you reach hypersonic speeds and you'll know why Obito can react to people he doesn't see.

 

[Selan]

Thanks.

Doesn't matter though..he could react once he sensed. I don't really get what you mean by the self teleporting Kamui, won't that mean he'll take longer to warp himself?

Actually, didn't Fu react without Obito still being in the real word? Look closely

Spoiler

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The appearance of his mask and line on his attire is different from before and when FU attacks and then it changes implying that he was intangible when and before Fu attacked.

It takes not so much. Obito could teleport himself in Onoki's Jinton, grab Sasuke and reteleport away before Onoki could complete the jutsu.

Well it not seems to me actually...

 

[Rιver]

So Mū is capable of erasing presence entirely, body mass, heat, effects on surroundings etc... but still left footprints while invisible and walking. And especially the fun fact is that above all sensors, someone like Gaara sensed him.

If you asked me, saying Sharingan doesn't locate him is mocking at it's worst.

Lol

 

[Haizaki]

So Mū is capable of erasing presence entirely, body mass, heat, effects on surroundings etc... but still left footprints while invisible and walking. And especially the fun fact is that above all sensors, someone like Gaara sensed him.

If you asked me, saying Sharingan doesn't locate him is mocking at it's worst.

Lol

The Sharingan sees chakra...if Mu erases his chakra, the Sharingan won't be seeing it. Someone like Gaara sensing him doesn't mean a thing when he came in contact with Gaara's sand. The fact that contact was made enabled him to know.

 

[KidGamer65]

You're funny. Sharingan can see any chakra activity. Any ninjutsu requires chakra to activate and maintain. Obito can see him. That was the most likely reason why Mu+Ohnoki got bested by EMS Madara. He saw right through them and there is no reason why Obito can't.

Spoiler

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Just like Itachi said.

There is no chakra activity when he's using his invisibility jutsu, manga made that clear when they said: "His chakra is erased." So this is not debatable. All you people need to stop mentioning Madara's fight when Madara=/=Obito, and you have no idea how he beat Mu as there are no panels.

 

[Draphsin]

I have already concedded on this point, i dont see why you are bringing it again

Because you didn't just concede, you still tried to explain how muu can somehow be faster.

Nope,
the moment obitos kamui limit runs out, means that muu can sense him, and then attack him,
where obito wud have no clue whatsoever where he is getting attacked from, and then he dies

Yeah

Lol There's absolutely no way that muu is going to hit obito during that minuscule window of time, not to mention obito can deactivate intangibility at any time within the 5 minutes so all he has to do to reset it is change locations.

Also based on feats it's possible that muu may not even be able to sense obito as he resets, let alone track his location & then land a lethal blow.

& As I posted before there have been multiple times where obito used intangibility to avoid attacks he had no clue were coming, so invisibility is useless & muu can't touch him.

 

[maniaoqan]

There is no chakra activity when he's using his invisibility jutsu, manga made that clear when they said: "His chakra is erased." So this is not debatable. All you people need to stop mentioning Madara's fight when Madara=/=Obito, and you have no idea how he beat Mu as there are no panels.

You're being illogical. He is not erasing his chakra. What he erases is the trace of his chakra. He can bypass any kind of sensory and eye with that but no one is fooling sharingan. How do you think Madara beat him. He obviously didn't used PS since Ohnoki suprised when he saw it. You think he used legged Susano and strike like a wild beast until he caught Mu by chance ? Sharingan can see through any kind of chakra it stated in the manga, Kid Obito managed to see an Iwa shinobi's invisibility jutsu with just 2 tomoes. Mu's version might be more advanced than that but the way they work can not be so different. There is no such a thing as erasing chakra.

 

[Haizaki]

& As I posted before there have been multiple times where obito used intangibility to avoid attacks he had no clue were coming, so invisibility is useless & muu can't touch him.

What attacks if you don't mind showing?

 

[Draphsin]

What attacks if you don't mind showing?

My first post

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[KidGamer65]

You're being illogical. He is not erasing his chakra. What he erases is the trace of his chakra. He can bypass any kind of sensory and eye with that but no one is fooling sharingan.

No chakra means no chakra. Erasing his chakra signature is what it is, thus there is nothing for the Sharingan to see.

[]How do you think Madara beat him. He obviously didn't used PS since Ohnoki suprised when he saw it. You think he used legged Susano and strike like a wild beast until he caught Mu by chance ? Sharingan can see through any kind of chakra it stated in the manga, Kid Obito managed to see an Iwa shinobi's invisibility jutsu with just 2 tomoes. Mu's version might be more advanced than that but the way they work can not be so different. There is no such a thing as erasing chakra.

I don't know, nor do I care as it was all off panel. Stop trying to use off panel events as some form of evidence, not how it works.

Manga disagrees. Mu's version is more advanced because while he's using the jutsu., "He has no chakra" If it worked how you believed it worked, then there'd literally be no difference from the Iwa ninja's Jutsu, but there is and the manga has made it clear that there is. So no Dojutsu is seeing him.

 

[Haizaki]

My first post

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Very legit except for the 5G Gai and Kakashi one though. Though that doesn't really mean no one can attack him giving Mu's ability to go invisible and surprise him.

 

[Beans2]

So Mū is capable of erasing presence entirely, body mass, heat, effects on surroundings etc... but still left footprints while invisible and walking. And especially the fun fact is that above all sensors, someone like Gaara sensed him.

If you asked me, saying Sharingan doesn't locate him is mocking at it's worst.

Lol

Spoiler

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Invisibility

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-Kabuto Yakushi

Mu's invisibility is obviously not a basic technique that just hides his presence. His very chakra is extinguished, meaning that he cannot be detected by chakra-sensing.

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Now you may ask, "what do you mean by he has no chakra? Everyone has chakra, if you don't have chakra you die." And this is true. When Mu "extinguishes" his chakra he does not necessarily have his chakra drop to zero, he simply supresses his chakra and masks it using an undetectable technique, much like Karin's ability.

Spoiler

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Karin can use this technique to hide her chakra and prevent detection from sensor types, like Cee. The difference between Mu and Karin is that in addition to that, Mu physically turns his body invisible making much more difficult to detect.

Do you understand now why sharingan can't see Mu? Sharingan sees chakra; Mu extinguishes chakra - Sharingan can't see Mu.

All you people need to stop mentioning Madara's fight when Madara=/=Obito, and you have no idea how he beat Mu as there are no panels.

Madara =/= Hashirama, yet you once used that as evidence for why Hashirama beats Mu and Onoki. But that's none of my business

I'd like to pose a quick question to you guys - if Mu can't use chakra-based techniques (like jinton) while he's invisible, how come he can still fly when he's invisible?

 

[Draphsin]

Very legit except for the 5G Gai and Kakashi one though. Though that doesn't really mean no one can attack him giving Mu's ability to go invisible and surprise him.

Whats wrong with the one with gated gai? He tried to hit obito & he was unaware of it. Kifflom tried to say that kakashi was the reason why he went intangible but that doesn't make sense seeing as kakashi never tried to attack obito, he merely went to grab naruto. Gai was the only one who tried to attack him in that instance, he was right behind obito, & he still missed.

It does though, because being invisible is the exact same thing as attacking someone without them knowing, & if obito can still evade those then I see no reason why muu is any different. Unless he has an incredible striking speed it just seems illogical that he would ever make contact.

 

[Rιver]

Do you understand now why sharingan can't see Mu? Sharingan sees chakra; Mu extinguishes chakra - Sharingan can't see Mu.



Madara =/= Hashirama, yet you once used that as evidence for why Hashirama beats Mu and Onoki. But that's none of my business

I'd like to pose a quick question to you guys - if Mu can't use chakra-based techniques (like jinton) while he's invisible, how come he can still fly when he's invisible?

Your point failed at the moment when you compared Mū's technique to Karin's when sensors like C claimed to be able to trace her chakra her back if he had focused enough, but didn't due to the fight with Taka. Him suppressing chakra means sensors can't sense him but Sharingan will still see him.

 

[Haizaki]

Whats wrong with the one with gated gai? He tried to hit obito & he was unaware of it. Kifflom tried to say that kakashi was the reason why he went intangible but that doesn't make sense seeing as kakashi never tried to attack obito, he merely went to grab naruto. Gai was the only one who tried to attack him in that instance, he was right behind obito, & he still missed.

The Jinchuriki's along with Obito all had shared vision. So they could definitely see them coming and so could Obito.

It does though, because being invisible is the exact same thing as attacking someone without them knowing, & if obito can still evade those then I see no reason why muu is any different. Unless he has an incredible striking speed it just seems illogical that he would ever make contact.

I see your point but I think evading every time from his blind spot without being able to sense is just like him being able to sense. If Mu can just time it correctly, he can actually get Obito off guard and I'm pretty sure Mu has what it takes to react to Obito giving the fact that he showed some superior feat to the Raikage.

 

[Apêx1]

I'd like to pose a quick question to you guys - if Mu can't use chakra-based techniques (like jinton) while he's invisible, how come he can still fly when he's invisible?

Inb4 plot hole. Mu's chakra is still present, it's just concealed. Unless he has 0 chakra in his entire body, I see no reason as to why Sharingan cannot see his chakra unless he is inexistent at that particular time at all, which isn't the case. One thing to note, sensing could very well simply be a refined version of feeling chakra as characters that aren't sensors have shown since the very beginning [

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][

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][

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][

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], it's rather clear that powerful/large in quantity chakra can be sensed/felt by non-sensors, whereas sensors can likely do the same thing on a much more intricate level. However, removing any feeling your chakra gives away would imply that the camouflage is in fact immune to sensors, whereas a Sharingan user would still have the ability to see the chakra that is present in ever living person in NV. You can conceal Chakra from sensors, you cannot extinguish chakra from existence and bring it back.

 

[Beans2]

Your point failed at the moment when you compared Mū's technique to Karin's when sensors like C claimed to be able to trace her chakra her back if he had focused enough, but didn't due to the fight with Taka. Him suppressing chakra means sensors can't sense him but Sharingan will still see him.

Please tell me you're joking. Cee said that before Karin erased her chakra. Or did you forget that manga panels read right to left?

 

[Beans2]

Inb4 plot hole. Mu's chakra is still present, it's just concealed. Unless he has 0 chakra in his entire body, I see no reason as to why Sharingan cannot see his chakra unless he is inexistent at that particular time at all, which isn't the case. One thing to note, sensing could very well simply be a refined version of feeling chakra as characters that aren't sensors have shown since the very beginning [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

], it's rather clear that powerful/large in quantity chakra can be sensed/felt by non-sensors, whereas sensors can likely do the same thing on a much more intricate level. However, removing any feeling your chakra gives away would imply that the camouflage is in fact immune to sensors, whereas a Sharingan user would still have the ability to see the chakra that is present in ever living person in NV. You can conceal Chakra from sensors, you cannot extinguish chakra from existence and bring it back.

So Mu can in fact use jinton while invisible?

 

[Draphsin]

The Jinchuriki's along with Obito all had shared vision. So they could definitely see them coming and so could Obito.

The jins were surrounding bee

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, then kokuo knocked bee across the battlefield

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. Then after obito failed to warp away naruto he summoned his jins back to him

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.

These scans tell me that the jins weren't anywhere near obito when he tried to warp away naruto, thus they didn't see gai. Also to add, whenever shared vision is used there is emphasis on the eyes that do see the enemy. [

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] [

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] Yet there was no indication that it was used here.

I see your point but I think evading every time from his blind spot without being able to sense is just like him being able to sense. If Mu can just time it correctly, he can actually get Obito off guard and I'm pretty sure Mu has what it takes to react to Obito giving the fact that he showed some superior feat to the Raikage.

Not sure what you're saying in the first sentence, are you saying that obito has some form of sensory abilities?

But muu can't time it, remember it took minato an instantaneous jutsu, perfect timing, & provoking obito to run at him in order to hit him before he became intangible. Minato set the conditions but he still needed to be instant to pull it off. Now in this case obito has control of when he wants to turn it off/on, he isn't directly attacking muu, & muu doesn't have an instantaneous [or close to] attacking speed. If we include the fact that muu has to first sense where obito is before he can attack him then there's no possible way he's going to land any hit in that time.