[VS] MS Lord Sasuke vs. Gaara

[genii96]

Mainly because of Aoda and the fact that non-Jin Gaara doesn't use large scale sand attacks constantly, while it also has been shown to have more problems with speedy adversaries​

​

last chapter shoed gaara making 2 bijuu sized sand arms,aoda isnt as big as a full bijuu IIRC,he is as big as half of katsuya that tsunade summoned.

Ms sasuke cant use aoda in conjucrion with susanoo anyway,he ill just get drained fast. Gaara can just do quicksand on aoda,making him unable to move.

Gaara's problem with speed was in the CE arc,he has kept up with taijutsu masters,split second explosions,the black flames etc. Speed isnt much of a factor unless you are naruto,minato or v2 Ay.

Sasuke dosent have the power to breach his defence,not even close. Wheras he can just kill sasuke inside his susanoo as it has no legs.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Been done before. Last I checked the scoreboard it was 1-0 to Gaara :3

 

[Chīkara]

I can't see Gaara blocking A Susano'o Arrow coming at him so fast.

 

[genii96]

I can't see Gaara blocking A Susano'o Arrow coming at him so fast.

the arrows are too fast to dodge or do handseals. Danzo blocked it didnt he?

 

[Shura]

Enton Arrows will end this. Nothing in Gaara's arsenal can stop them because they are far too fast and due to the Enton's piercing properties, it cannot be blocked by a solid object such as the sand. Not to mention how Tsukuyomi 1shots.​

 

[Chīkara]

the arrows are too fast to dodge or do handseals. Danzo blocked it didnt he?

He had to use emergency Mokuton which is directly on body and can be used almost instantly.
Kakashi Could use Kamui which is incredibly fast and look what happened after him he was unable to move.
Gaara is not able to react at such speed if the enton arrow is used, Gaara will be unable to defense himself with
enough amount of sand to block the enton arrow or is even too slow to react completly and get Obliterated.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Enton Arrows will end this. Nothing in Gaara's arsenal can stop them because they are far too fast and due to the Enton's piercing properties, it cannot be blocked by a solid object such as the sand. Not to mention how Tsukuyomi 1shots.​

Gaara can employ a

You must be registered for see links

with his sand. The biggest Disadvantage of arrows are that they are no longer controlled by sasuke once they're released. That means that any external force can change the trajectory of the arrows; Even a pebble, thrown at the side of the arrow, could offset it if only by at least a few nanometers. Gaara's sand is more than capable of changing the trajectory to narrowly miss him.
Further, gaara can simply substitute out with a sand clone; Something he can do

You must be registered for see links

.

Considering Sasuke has to be in V2 Susano'o to use that, he'd have a very limited time period in which he could do it due to the susano'o strain. That's assuming sasuke even makes it that far seeing as;
-Perfect MS vision sasuke = never used amaterasu
-Near blind sasuke = first use of arrows
-V3 sasuke = blind
So, either way, sasuke's coming in with a disadvantage.

 

[genii96]

Why do people bother with genii96? The guy thinks that Gaara can beat current Sasuke.

you know how stupid you look right now?,seeing as majority of the people here believe gaara win on this thread?. Your troll efforts are getting really pathetic and old,and noone is really listening to you Lol.

Enton Arrows will end this. Nothing in Gaara's arsenal can stop them because they are far too fast and due to the Enton's piercing properties, it cannot be blocked by a solid object such as the sand. Not to mention how Tsukuyomi 1shots.​

sand already blocked enton,enton arrows are ems sasuke,they were blocked by chakra rodsLol

He had to use emergency Mokuton which is directly on body and can be used almost instantly.
Kakashi Could use Kamui which is incredibly fast and look what happened after him he was unable to move.
Gaara is not able to react at such speed if the enton arrow is used, Gaara will be unable to defense himself with
enough amount of sand to block the enton arrow or is even too slow to react completly and get Obliterated.

gaara's sand is at his back,he substituted himself with a clone in the blink of an eye,he has blocked explosions the instant they explode. Blocking the arrows are only difficult if you need to use a jutsu that requires handseals or you need to dodge it,obito's chakra rods do not require handseals,which is why he countered it,same with danzo,same with kakashi,gaara is also the same,he dosent need handseals or needs to dodge. Also he can clearly see sasuke equipping his arrow on his bow and aiming at him,dont you think he would put up a defence during that time?. Sand is immune to enton as well,and this is ms sasuke,so no enton arrows.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Enton Arrows will end this. Nothing in Gaara's arsenal can stop them because they are far too fast and due to the Enton's piercing properties, it cannot be blocked by a solid object such as the sand. Not to mention how Tsukuyomi 1shots.​

When has MS Sasuke ever used Enton arrows and Tsukiyomi..?

Katon and Enton has shown to have no effect on Gaaras sand.

 

[Shura]

When has MS Sasuke ever used Enton arrows and Tsukiyomi..?

Katon and Enton has shown to have no effect on Gaaras sand.

He has shown to have

You must be registered for see links

in his MS form from which he creates the Enton Arrows so yes, Sasuke can use the Enton Arrows. As for the Tsukuyomi, read BlinkST's post so that you don't misunderstand anything I say.

Spoiler

A question. You stated that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi, am I correct? May I know why you believe that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi?​

This will be given a detailed answer. There are ways to argue for or against Sasuke possessing Tsukuyomi, and either one is credible.

I consider arguing for possessing Tsukuyomi, to be credible.

Itachi plainly told Sasuke that the two powers needed to awaken the Susano'o, were Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Instead of speaking generally and saying the power of two eyes will awaken Susano'o, he was instead very specific.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The first thing we see Sasuke do with his Kaleidoscope Sharingan, is produce a remarkable genjutsu from his right eye. As with Itachi, comments were made about his eyes being upgraded over his older set.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

We later see a genjutsu used against the 8 tails Jinchuriki that looks remarkably like Tsukuyomi, from his right eye.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

When this genjutsu was broken, it caused a similar pain.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Later, Sasuke awakens Amaterasu from the left eye.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This then satisfies the requirements to awaken Susano'o, which he goes to test at the Gokage Summit.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke later unleashes a genjutsu upon Danzo from his right eye, which causes him to believe Izanagi was still in effect.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The genjutsu uses the same color scheme of "Tsukuyomi". It is assumed that Sasuke merely caused Danzo to see an image of a Sharingan in his hand, and jump forward to him.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The issue with that though, is that Danzo would have detected when Izanagi ended from his chakra. Instead, we can look at the color scheme, right eye use, and conclude one thing: Sasuke used Tsukuyomi on Danzo. But rather than use it as a torture device, he manipulated the time of Danzo's Izanagi in the Tsukuyomi dreamscape, giving him the impression that it would last longer than it really would.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Getting back to the "two generic eyes = Susano'o" part of this discussion, it should be noted that Shisui, one of the most talented members of the Uchiha, was never known as a Susano'o user. It should also be noted that Itachi never figured Sasuke would be a Susano'o user:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Which implies Itachi never thought Sasuke would awaken the exact same powers as he did. Seemingly, they possessed the same powers due to being brothers.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It is assumed that Enton: Kagu-Tsuchi is the power to put out the flames, but I don't find that to be a credible idea. Enton: Kagu-Tsuchi was introduced as the power to generate flames from the chakra (Susano'o) or the body, as well as the power to modify the chakra form of the black fire. This in contrast with "Amaterasu", which produces black fire where a person looks.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Itachi's ocular powers overall encompass a family tree of kami. The original order being:
Tsukuyomi (月読; "[She] who reads the Moon")
Amaterasu (天照; "[She] who illuminates Heaven")
Susano'o (須佐能乎; "[He] with the ability to help by all means")


All of these gods were birthed by the primordial kami Izanagi. Itachi also carried weapons based on two Japanese imperial regalia: the Totsuka sword and Yata mirror. A third weapon, called Yasaka magata was also carried, but it is not as important.

Kishimoto's decision to hold back Sasuke's mountain priest Susano'o until he gained Itachi's eyes, later led to the subtle use of Magatama:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The marriage of Susano'o and his sister Amaterasu, symbolizes two things. Number one being, two incredibly powerful ocular powers are working together. Amaterasu is considered to be the most important kami of the Shinto religion.

Amaterasu is the goddess of the sun and the supreme Shinto deity. Goddess Amaterasu is revered at the Grand Ise Shrine, which is the only site dedicated to her.
Japanese emperors are said to descend directly from Amaterasu, hence their divine status until Emperor Hirohito was forced to proclaim his human-nature after Japan's defeat in WWII in 1945.

Similarly, "Amaterasu" is considered to be the strongest ocular power.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The second being, Amaterasu is she who inherited the right to rule the high plain of heaven, from her father Izanagi. Her descendants inherited the right to rule Japan from her.

"The most important magatama beads are called the yasakani no magatama and is one of the imperial regalia objects. In this context the beads are believed to possess the soul of a person wherein it can be passed on to others as a means of passing one's authority or power to its receiver. Izanagi's gift of these beads to Amaterasu is so important because in doing so, “Izanagi ceded all of his spiritual power to Ama-terasu-opo-mi-kami” to rule with (Philippi 71). This is because Izanagi had previously put his soul into the beads by shaking them (indication of a spirit pacification ritual) (Philippi 71). The transfer of power and authority to rule Japan has been handed down in this way - through the yasakani no magatama beads - from Amaterasu to her descendants, right up to the present emperor and continues to be done through the imperial accession ceremony (Ebersole 96)."

You must be registered for see links

(This is why Madara Uchiha believes he can place the world under a genjutsu.)


The term "Kagu-Tsuchi" does not have any meaning in modern Japanese. In the context of the Kojiki, it is often interpreted to meaning "smoldering earth" or "shining elder", because of Izanami's death during childbirth. The literal meaning is sometimes rendered as "added tool earth lord", though "Affixed Auxiliary earth lord" keeps the intended meaning better.

Enton: Kagu-Tsuchi (炎遁・加具土命; "Flame release: Affixed Auxiliary Earth Lord/Smoldering earth")
Enton: Susano'o Kagu-Tsuchi (炎遁・須佐能乎加具土命; "Flame Release: [He] with the ability to help by all means with Affixed Auxiliary Earth Lord/smoldering earth")

The impression is that the black fire can be added to another ocular power, which is what happened when he first used the technique.

Note that the Sharingan itself is based on a magatama, and these were used along with the yata mirror to lure Amaterasu from a cave in a folktale.
Later on, Kishimoto positioned Sasuke as the inheritor of two legendary Uchiha powers: Izanagi and Izanami.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke is positioned as he who can change the future and rule as Hokage, the strongest of the 5 main nations.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Sasuke I believe, is a user of 4 powers, with two more coming up:

Tsukuyomi
Amaterasu
Susano'o
Enton: Kagu-Tsuchi
Izanagi
Izanami

And are you really going to compare an Enton Arrow to a Katon and a defensive Enton [

You must be registered for see links

] that has absolutely no cutting or piercing properties and isn't solid like an Enton arrow despite the fact that unlike the Enton Sasuke used last time, the Enton Arrows are offensive based Entons with piercing based attacks which cannot be blocked by solid objects. Don't get me wrong, normal Susano'o Arrows can be blocked, however, Enton Arrows cannot.​

 

[genii96]

He has shown to have

You must be registered for see links

in his MS form from which he creates the Enton Arrows so yes, Sasuke can use the Enton Arrows. As for the Tsukuyomi, read BlinkST's post so that you don't misunderstand anything I say.


And are you really going to compare an Enton Arrow to a Katon and a defensive Enton [

You must be registered for see links

] that has absolutely no cutting or piercing properties and isn't solid like an Enton arrow despite the fact that unlike the Enton Sasuke used last time, the Enton Arrows are offensive based Entons with piercing based attacks which cannot be blocked by solid objects. Don't get me wrong, normal Susano'o Arrows can be blocked, however, Enton Arrows cannot.​

an ms sasuke having an orb in ribcage form dosent equate to an ems sasuke having an orb in a v3/v4 form. Enton arrows cant be stopped by solid objects?,what happened when it got hit by 3 chakra rods?

 

[Shura]

Yes, Genii. I'm definitely going to debate this with you out of all people despite all the warnings not to debate with you. I'm being sarcastic if you haven't noticed.​

 

[Optimistic]

Yes, Genii. I'm definitely going to debate this with you out of all people despite all the warnings not to debate with you. I'm being sarcastic if you haven't noticed.​

Only because you(and the other people who don't mess with him) will lose.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

He has shown to have

You must be registered for see links

in his MS form from which he creates the Enton Arrows so yes, Sasuke can use the Enton Arrows. As for the Tsukuyomi, read BlinkST's post so that you don't misunderstand anything I say.


And are you really going to compare an Enton Arrow to a Katon and a defensive Enton [

You must be registered for see links

] that has absolutely no cutting or piercing properties and isn't solid like an Enton arrow despite the fact that unlike the Enton Sasuke used last time, the Enton Arrows are offensive based Entons with piercing based attacks which cannot be blocked by solid objects. Don't get me wrong, normal Susano'o Arrows can be blocked, however, Enton Arrows cannot.​

Sasuke only transcended to that level of Susano'o for a very brief moment due to sheer anger while he had exhausted his MS and thus near blind. He literally just started using Susano'o and has only unlocked that level after gaining experience with it first which swiftly deteriorated his vision to the point where he required Itachi's eyes to be transplanted shortly after. My point being, a fresh new MS Sasuke doesn't have access to it. Not only that, but Sasuke couldn't even keep up his V2[?] Susano'o after using Amaterasu once [

You must be registered for see links

] with the MS; but you're suggesting this same Sasuke will hold up a V4[?] Susano'o, manipulate the Amaterasu, and fire it off? Not likely.

[?] - Not very familiar with the stages of Susano'o.

I'm not going to sit here and counter that whole entire post, but that wasn't Tsukiyomi Sasuke used on Bee. Else how was it broken? Sasuke made eye to eye contact with Danzo with his MS activated [

You must be registered for see links

] and used an inferior genjutsu to Itachi's Tsukiyomi [

You must be registered for see links

]; yet again, Sasuke uses sharingan genjutsu isntead of Tsukiyomi [

You must be registered for see links

] and I'm sure there are even more examples. Furthermore, Sasuke specifically said those who control the double mangekyo gain access to Susano'o [

You must be registered for see links

] he didn't mention anything regarding it requiring Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. Madara being another example of a Susano'o user without ever using the two 'required' techniques. Also, the color scheme between the two is an insignificant point to bring up. The caster can manipulate and create illusions to his/her own desire.

What is an Enton arrows piercing capabilities anyways? I had no clue it was any stronger then a standard susano'o arrow.

 

[Shura]

Sasuke only transcended to that level of Susano'o for a very brief moment due to sheer anger while he had exhausted his MS and thus near blind. He literally just started using Susano'o and has only unlocked that level after gaining experience with it first which swiftly deteriorated his vision to the point where he required Itachi's eyes to be transplanted shortly after. My point being, a fresh new MS Sasuke doesn't have access to it. Not only that, but Sasuke couldn't even keep up his V2[?] Susano'o after using Amaterasu once [

You must be registered for see links

] with the MS; but you're suggesting this same Sasuke will hold up a V4[?] Susano'o, manipulate the Amaterasu, and fire it off? Not likely.

[?] - Not very familiar with the stages of Susano'o.

I'm not going to sit here and counter that whole entire post, but that wasn't Tsukiyomi Sasuke used on Bee. Else how was it broken? Sasuke made eye to eye contact with Danzo with his MS activated [

You must be registered for see links

] and used an inferior genjutsu to Itachi's Tsukiyomi [

You must be registered for see links

]; yet again, Sasuke uses sharingan genjutsu isntead of Tsukiyomi [

You must be registered for see links

] and I'm sure there are even more examples. Furthermore, Sasuke specifically said those who control the double mangekyo gain access to Susano'o [

You must be registered for see links

] he didn't mention anything regarding it requiring Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. Madara being another example of a Susano'o user without ever using the two 'required' techniques. Also, the color scheme between the two is an insignificant point to bring up. The caster can manipulate and create illusions to his/her own desire.

What is an Enton arrows piercing capabilities anyways? I had no clue it was any stronger then a standard susano'o arrow.

FT, this is a MS Sasuke with fresh eyes who has much as an experience as that MS Sasuke or EMS Sasuke. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a fair fight, now would it? Do I really have to add this to the OP? However, anyways, Enton doesn't have drawbacks when used. [

You must be registered for see links

]

Bee? Sasuke didn't use Tsukuyomi on Bee, yes, however he used it on Danzo. Him breaking out of Sasuke's Tsukuyomi doesn't mean much when he would break out of Itachi's Tsukuyomi as well due to the fact that he possesses both the Sharingan and a Kekkei Genkai (Mokuton) which are needed to break out of Tsukuyomi unless you are Sasuke's or Itachi's blood relative. [

You must be registered for see links

] It's not surprise Danzo broke out of it really since he has all the requirements needed for being able to break out of Tsukuyomi.

As for the Enton Arrows. Well, the difference between Susano'o Arrows and Enton Arrows is the fact that Susano'o Arrows can be blocked and stopped by a solid object [

You must be registered for see links

] while Enton Arrows cannot be blocked or stopped by a solid object. [

You must be registered for see links

]​

 

[genii96]

Yes, Genii. I'm definitely going to debate this with you out of all people despite all the warnings not to debate with you. I'm being sarcastic if you haven't noticed.​

in other words,ur argument is shit and you know it. Ms sasuke using enton arrows in a v4 susanoo,which made him go blind a few secs after he unlocked it,enton arrows being unable to be stopped by solid objects when 3 chakra rods stopped it.

Yea,u sure are making sense.....i am being sarcastic if you didnt know

 

[Shura]

in other words,ur argument is shit and you know it. Ms sasuke using enton arrows in a v4 susanoo,which made him go blind a few secs after he unlocked it,enton arrows being unable to be stopped by solid objects when 3 chakra rods stopped it.

Yea,u sure are making sense.....i am being sarcastic if you didnt know

''If Sasuke became the next Sage of 6 Paths, Genii would still argue that Gaara beats him.'' - Adeshina.​

 

[Chīkara]

- Sasuke is too fast.
- Tsukuyomi stomps.
- Infused kusanagi kills gaara if sasuke decide to use taijutsu and speed.
- Kirin will pierce and obliterate Gaara.
- Taka hawk gives him aerial capabilities.
- Enton arrow is way too fast to completely block.

Sasuke win High diff.

 

[Optimistic]

- Sasuke is too fast.

Foot speed is useless against Part 2 Gaara

- Tsukuyomi stomps.

No

- Infused kusanagi kills gaara if sasuke decide to use taijutsu and speed.

no

- Kirin will pierce and obliterate Gaara.

Won't be able to prep it when he's engaging someone who uses Biju sized sand attacks.

- Taka hawk gives him aerial capabilities.

Gaara easily shoots that down, the hawk literally has no aerial feats.

- Enton arrow is way too fast to completely block.

Gaara can build up enough sand to change its trajectory or block it completely. normal arrows are more reliable than arrows that are complete made up of enton flames(something Gaara's sand can handle). Yall forgetting how Sasuke drops his Susano'o down a few levels if he keeps V3 up for so long and use other MS moves, sure he can bring it back up but just re-read the danzo fight and watch him cough up blood for abusing moves like that. Him using enton manipulations and V3 to fire arrows will end up playing into Gaara's favor.

Sasuke win High diff.

Gaara without Shukaku wins high diff.
Gaara with Shukaku wins mid diff.

 

[genii96]

''If Sasuke became the next Sage of 6 Paths, Genii would still argue that Gaara beats him.'' - Adeshina.​

adenisha?,oh that one. Hey,if you and your bf cant bring a non-shitty argument as to why an ms sasuke beats gaara then spamming your own thread is a waste of time.

Ms sasuke using enton arrows is your fanfiction.

Oh,and sasuke is never gonna become like rikudo,thats your dreamworld speaking.

If you havent noticed,only 3 of you are actually on sasuke's side,so how about you actually make up an argument?.