Minato vs Tobirama

[NarutoIndra]

You are assuming the Nidaime Raikage survived the ambush. Quit assuming how the fight went. You know nothing of it, so quit pretending you do.

Quote me saying such a thing. Before that, stop pretending as if you are intelligent.

 

[WolfHaley]

Wot? Whomever said that? You are assuming now. I only ever stated Tobirama was outclassed by them while fighting along with the Nidaime Raikage when Darui "out smarted them" (which I seem to have been wrong in saying). Your point has no reasoning behind it and is an assumption of what I wrote on this thread (as I didn't write this nonsense).

Quit assuming how the fight went. It was an ambush after all, and the Nidaime's were talking about peace negotiations. They were not exactly ready for a fight.

Quote me saying such a thing. Before that, stop pretending as if you are intelligent.

I am not the smartest person here, but your intelligence is somewhere among the ranks of Immortal Itachi and Uchihahahahaha.

 

[KingHashirama]

What i got in the essence of the thread:

- underestimation of characters who were not given screen time to show their abilities are forcefully judged by fans trying to prove their point, instead of taking what their strength is in the manga, they want to be the own judges for the characters strength. Biggest flaw. (Kinkaku and Ginkaku).

- Comparing a character who can literally do the same things as the other in battle + more, with a character who is a specialist in specific things, is also a big flaw.

- Classic scenario of David vs Goliath.. where the fans will try to make the underdog win, because they prefer him more. But in realty the other one is still stronger.

- On top of that the situation of Kinkaku and Ginkaku is not even clear to people here.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

1. It was a coupde'tat ambush on only the 2nd Raikage and 2nd Hokage. Meaning MULTIPLE NINJA.. not just kinkaku and ginkaku..

2. Clearly their target was only the 2nd Hokage

3. We don't know what happened.

4. Those 2 Ninja are in the historybooks of Kumo.. easily superior to a chump like Darui. Hell he was toying with Jounin level ninja like a joke rofl.

 

[NarutoIndra]

Quit assuming how the fight went. It was an ambush after all, and the Nidaime's were talking about peace negotiations. They were not exactly ready for a fight.




I am not the smartest person here, but your intelligence is somewhere among the ranks of Immortal Itachi and Uchihahahahaha.

I am referencing the manga, and manga states Tobirama and Nidaime Raikage fought, and Tobirama was put on the verge of death. You claimed I said the nidaime survived. Please directly show me where I claimed this. All I said was he fought along Tobirama. Now not only your debating skills are lamentable, but your comprehension skills seem to match that of a second graders. I won't compare you with other users of this site as I can't think of anyone as ignorant and stubborn as you.

 

[WolfHaley]

I am referencing the manga, and manga states Tobirama and Nidaime Raikage fought, and Tobirama was put on the verge of death. You claimed I said the nidaime survived. Please directly show me where I claimed this. All I said was he fought along Tobirama. Now not only your debating skills are lamentable, but your comprehension skills seem to match that of a second graders. I won't compare you with other users of this site as I can't think of anyone as ignorant and stubborn as you.

The manga never stated or hinted that the Nidaime Raikage fought with Tobirama. The manga never said it was a fair fight. The manga said it was a coup de tat. You know what that is right? Seeing as how you get flustered when you are wrong and like to insult people, I feel pity for you so I will tell you.

coup d'état
noun \ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä, ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌ, -də-\

: a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence

Now seeing as how the attack was an ambush, we do not know how the fight went. Quit assuming how the fight went to help you in your debate. You are quite special. Lol

 

[ajpn920]

^

Please don't bring up Minato using Ma and Pa as we have no info on how he even summons them considering they arent a regular summon, Minato has shown no feats of using ma and pa and there is no evidence he has the capability of summoning them. And please dont post that db scan where kishi saids every contract with a frog summon means a contract with all of them.

Ma and Pa are toads from mt.myoboku. They are not different in terms of how summoning works with the other toads. What's so hard about this?

You must be registered for see images

Minato owns Tobirama. Deal with it.

 

[NarutoIndra]

The manga never stated or hinted that the Nidaime Raikage fought with Tobirama. The manga never said it was a fair fight. The manga said it was a coup de tat. You know what that is right? Seeing as how you get flustered when you are wrong and like to insult people, I feel pity for you so I will tell you.

coup d'état
noun \ˌkü-(ˌ)dā-ˈtä, ˈkü-(ˌ)dā-ˌ, -də-\

: a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence

Now seeing as how the attack was an ambush, we do not know how the fight went. Quit assuming how the fight went to help you in your debate. You are quite special. Lol

Once again assuming I assumed I claimed how the fight went. Tobirama can sense, and has immense reaction speed. Considering this, I don't see how an ambush would affect his fighting skills by much. Moreover, you didn't reply to my last post, so I am ignoring you, until you can answer it as there is no point in me going in circles in an argument with you. It isn't helping me anyways, Minato wins this even if Tobirama solo'd Gin and Kingaku by himself according to feats. And yes, I am special, particularly in comparison to you since I can comprehend what others write, whereas you don't.

 

[KingHashirama]

Ma and Pa are toads from mt.myoboku. They are not different in terms of how summoning works with the other toads. What's so hard about this?

You must be registered for see images

Minato owns Tobirama. Deal with it.

Contract with all toads doesn't = the toads will come..

Ma and Pa strictly stay on MT. Myoboku.

The possibly way to summon them is probably the way jiraiya did it, with the markings and etc.

 

[WolfHaley]

I am referencing the manga, and manga states Tobirama and Nidaime Raikage fought, and Tobirama was put on the verge of death. You claimed I said the nidaime survived. Please directly show me where I claimed this. All I said was he fought along Tobirama. Now not only your debating skills are lamentable, but your comprehension skills seem to match that of a second graders. I won't compare you with other users of this site as I can't think of anyone as ignorant and stubborn as you.

Please show me. Oh for the love of God please show me the scan of the first bold and post to where I said the second bold. LMFAO this is great.

Once again assuming I assumed I claimed how the fight went. Tobirama can sense, and has immense reaction speed. Considering this, I don't see how an ambush would affect his fighting skills by much. Moreover, you didn't reply to my last post, so I am ignoring you, until you can answer it as there is no point in me going in circles in an argument with you. It isn't helping me anyways, Minato wins this even if Tobirama solo'd Gin and Kingaku by himself according to feats. And yes, I am special, particularly in comparison to you since I can comprehend what others write, whereas you don't.

You assumed the Nidaime and Tobirama fought. Tobirama cannot sense unless he uses his chakra, which he had no reason to since the Nidaime's were speaking of peace. He had no reason to be worried. I did reply to your last post, so there goes your self acclaimed comprehension skills. You baffle me.

 

[ajpn920]

Contract with all toads doesn't = the toads will come..

Ma and Pa strictly stay on MT. Myoboku.

The possibly way to summon them is probably the way jiraiya did it, with the markings and etc.

Ma and Pa strictly stay on MT. Myoboku

Are you serious? Do you know what summoning is?:leaf: I think you really need to start reading that chapter again. If you are referring to sage mode then you're wrong. Sage Mode and Summoning are different. To summon is to call the animals or people across long distances instantly via blood. Ma and Pa are inhabitants of Mt. Myoboku? Why can't Minato call them?

 

[ajpn920]

Contract with all toads doesn't = the toads will come..

Ma and Pa strictly stay on MT. Myoboku.

The possibly way to summon them is probably the way jiraiya did it, with the markings and etc.

Ma and Pa strictly stay on MT. Myoboku

Are you serious? Do you know what summoning is?:leaf: I think you really need to start reading that chapter again. If you are referring to sage mode then you're wrong. Sage Mode and Summoning are different. To summon is to call the animals or people across long distances instantly via blood. Ma and Pa are inhabitants of Mt. Myoboku? Why can't Minato call them?

 

[Tobby17]

Are you serious? Do you know what summoning is?:leaf: I think you really need to start reading that chapter again. If you are referring to sage mode then you're wrong. Sage Mode and Summoning are different. To summon is to call the animals or people across long distances instantly via blood. Ma and Pa are inhabitants of Mt. Myoboku? Why can't Minato call them?

because he's never been shown to, and seeing as the databook states that the toad that you can summon depends on your abilities. I will say Minato cannot summon them seeing as he doesn't have sage mode

 

[Bogard]

because he's never been shown to, and seeing as the databook states that the toad that you can summon depends on your abilities. I will say Minato cannot summon them seeing as he doesn't have sage mode

The ability thing concern the amount of chakra. Depending on the amount of chakra you use, you summon one specie. Minato has shown to be capable to summon Gerotora(the toad scroll) who is stated in the databook to be a rare specie even inside Mt Myouboukou, so i'm pretty sure that from that feat alone, it shows he can summon every toad. You don't need sage mode to summon them. It's not as if you were signing a different contract to summont them. We've seen Ma summoning Pa, Naruto, Gamabunta, Gamakichi and others during the Pain attack in one-go during the Pain attack and she didn't need a special contract to do it, which means it's the same contract, nothing different

 

[ajpn920]

because he's never been shown to, and seeing as the databook states that the toad that you can summon depends on your abilities. I will say Minato cannot summon them seeing as he doesn't have sage mode

What? Is it so hard to use common sense? If all of you knows how summoning works then there's no argument about this. To summon means to call. Using sage mode is out of the picture. Minato can call the inhabitants in Mt. Myoboku because he has a contract with the toads. Gamarinsho is not a sage mode tech. Jiraiya or Naruto can't use Gamarinsho. Only Ma and Pa can use that. Ma and Pa are inhabitants of Mt. Myoboku. If Kishi said that a contract with toads means a contract with all toads then that's a FACT coming directly from the writer itself.

 

[Draegod]

The ability thing concern the amount of chakra. Depending on the amount of chakra you use, you summon one specie. Minato has shown to be capable to summon Gerotora(the toad scroll) who is stated in the databook to be a rare specie even inside Mt Myouboukou, so i'm pretty sure that from that feat alone, it shows he can summon every toad. You don't need sage mode to summon them. It's not as if you were signing a different contract to summont them. We've seen Ma summoning Pa, Naruto, Gamabunta, Gamakichi and others during the Pain attack in one-go during the Pain attack and she didn't need a special contract to do it, which means it's the same contract, nothing different

Databook states a spl Ritual to summon them using your blood, untill minato shows this he cannot be said to summon them. And it took JMAN to concentrate with both hands for a good amount of time to be able to summon the two. Minato has no where near the amount of chakra Jman has. It would deplete his chakra just summoning 1 toad, let alone spamming and wasting chakra and stalling to gather chakra to summon one.

 

[EKSITE]

Lol at Tobirma being smarter or battle tacticier or whatever. Entire shinobi alliance(including someone as smart as Shikamaru) didn't manage to find a way to deflect Jubi's Bijudama. Minato just arriving on the battlefield proceeded to organise his plan by placing a kunai in a far away rock middle ocean that could serve him for the deflection of said Bijudama in the area, all that in one-go, and was still one step ahead with the initial plan of dispercing the Hokages for the red sun barrier impressing both Tobirama and Hiruzen by his quickness to act


Again when everyone(Tobirama and Hashirama incl) were rushing to attack Madara before his revival, Minato just made a clone and shut Obito down, stopping said revival

You must be registered for see images

Here we even see Tobirama questioning himself about Minato's prowess

Concerning the analytical aspect, Edo tensei is Tobirama's own fucking jutsu. It's kind of normal that he would know more things concerning his own jutsu than someone else, right? If it was Minato the one who analysed it better than Tobirama, it would have been a shame for Tobirama actually for a stranger to know better on his own jutsu than him, so that thing is not undermining Minato by any means, but actually showing a logical thing that should be. Minato stated here that it takes some time for the edo tensei body to recover, but he didn't know when exactly the recovery time starts to take effect [

You must be registered for see links

], and he had no reason to know such a thing better than the creator of the technique itself. Tobirama created the technique and used in a lot when he was alive, so obviously he would know when the recovery time should start better than anyone else

Concerning the Onmyoudon discovery, it has nothing to do with analysis, but knowledge. That simply means Tobirama had more knowledge concerning Rikudo-like techniques than Minato, something that shouldn't be surprising when you know he is a damn Senju

Not even mentioning the fact that Kishimoto clearly showed us that at that point, Minato wasn't even concentrating in the fight in itself since he was trying to rather understand his opponent who was once his student. It was the only thing that was in his mind at that point. When other people were calmly fighting or analysing, himself was doubting himself or trying to understand his student [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

] [

You must be registered for see links

]

On the other side, i could show you this panel

You must be registered for see images

Tobirama was all bragging about the fact the only option was to start warping Bijuudamas one after another forgetting it would be easier to warp just the tree as a whole

As long as Minato himself isn't emotive, he has shown to be a quicker thinking and more analytic than Tobirama

Would you like to put the whole concept he was thinking of warping the whole tree ,Easier said then done going with the bijuu dama was much less hassel plus obito was not having it.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Tobirama came up with the structure of the whole village that other villages copied jounin,chuunin,anbu,genin and all is fixture of everything was on point must of the time.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Shikamaru the genius praised him on the level of inteligence.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Tobirama has been shown to be very knowledgeable in most things he's Encountered he's been moving as the head he leaves no moves to spear always on point.

 

[ajpn920]

Databook states a spl Ritual to summon them using your blood, untill minato shows this he cannot be said to summon them. And it took JMAN to concentrate with both hands for a good amount of time to be able to summon the two. Minato has no where near the amount of chakra Jman has. It would deplete his chakra just summoning 1 toad, let alone spamming and wasting chakra and stalling to gather chakra to summon one.

It would deplete his chakra just summoning 1 toad

Where did you get this idea? Do you want us to post what Minato did during the kyuubi attack? To refresh your memory, he was able to spam FTG, teleport Kurama, TBB, SUMMONING BUNTA, etc. And you said it would deplete his chakra just summoning 1 toad? Looks like your making your own story. Please show us the scan where it is said that it would need special ritual to summon Ma and Pa.

 

[Draegod]

Where did you get this idea? Do you want us to post what Minato did during the kyuubi attack? To refresh your memory, he was able to spam FTG, teleport Kurama, TBB, SUMMONING BUNTA, etc. And you said it would deplete his chakra just summoning 1 toad? Looks like your making your own story. Please show us the scan where it is said that it would need special ritual to summon Ma and Pa.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Anything else? Manga fact, check! Databook fact, check!

 

[KingHashirama]

Are you serious? Do you know what summoning is?:leaf: I think you really need to start reading that chapter again. If you are referring to sage mode then you're wrong. Sage Mode and Summoning are different. To summon is to call the animals or people across long distances instantly via blood. Ma and Pa are inhabitants of Mt. Myoboku? Why can't Minato call them?

I think you need to start reading the manga, before telling others.

Only time Ma and Pa were summoned was with Jiraiya's sage mode ritual.. so don't create bs. Contracts allow the person to summon them. But the summonings are not the choice of the person. Gamakichi has been summoned multiple times instead of gamabunta.. and so on.

Ma and Pa are obviously special toads. Too hard for you to understand i guess.

 

[NarutoIndra]

Please show me. Oh for the love of God please show me the scan of the first bold and post to where I said the second bold. LMFAO this is great.



You assumed the Nidaime and Tobirama fought. Tobirama cannot sense unless he uses his chakra, which he had no reason to since the Nidaime's were speaking of peace. He had no reason to be worried. I did reply to your last post, so there goes your self acclaimed comprehension skills. You baffle me.

Okay? Here [

You must be registered for see links

] The ambushed both, meaning they fought together. I did not asses the outcome, what he did, or how long he was their, but for at least one second of this coup d'etat he was considered in a fight. Your lack of comprehension never seizes to amaze me.

Are you really that ignorant that you can't even read your own posts?

You are assuming the Nidaime Raikage survived the ambush

I asked you to quote where I made this claim, but you could not because I had not. But then again, I wasn't surprised you didn't realise due to your poor comprehension skills.
You didn't reply to the part where I was telling you about what you have assumed never mind I forgot your comprehension skills didn't reach a level to allow you to read that far into my posts.