Might Guy and the eight gates

s0ulja

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this is your opinion man, and thanks for explaining too, im not overestimating it though, im simply saying what the manga is telling me.

'and if guy was to go as far as opening the 7th gate, i'm pretty sure he'll go further and to his own demise as well (for the sake of the shinobi war, not just lee)
appreciate it,

well we can at least agree 8th gate means death right? i only say he will make that sacrifice for lee b'cuz to him it will be worth it (lee will carry on his legacy). like when jiraiya chose to stay back and die as oppose to fleeing b'cuz he had that faith in naruto. also when nagato decided to revive the casulties even though he knew it would mean death for the same reason. and as far as guy's concerned only one person shares that bond
 

NaruGokuPWNS

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Lmao you know usually reading text you can never note sarcasm that reeks of it ha

I reckon the 8 Gates are fckn epic. I always thought imagine any other ninja that master that ability
There are defintely others in the ninja world who can use gates (e.g. Kakashi), but how much gates they can activate depends on the user.
Every ninja in narutoverse has the ability to unlock and train in the gates (said in the manga).

It takes quite a lot of training, but the more you progress it starts seeming normal, like even doing training in your sleep (gai has done this...lol).

But just imagine if every ninja in naruto used 8 gates up to 7 O.OO.OO.O, even though quite a few have been introduced in the manga already.
 

palmer

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yes,all ninja can,but its just 4 ninja mention,that can use it.Kakashi can open at least 1,Lee at least 5,Gai at least 7,and Shinno at least 8,so even if its said dat ninjas can,dis are the only ninja,by d manga,and listed according to their ability.so its nt easy to open gates,even the son of d white fang kakashi can not open the ones lee can.
 

s0ulja

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yes,all ninja can,but its just 4 ninja mention,that can use it.Kakashi can open at least 1,Lee at least 5,Gai at least 7,and Shinno at least 8,so even if its said dat ninjas can,dis are the only ninja,by d manga,and listed according to their ability.so its nt easy to open gates,even the son of d white fang kakashi can not open the ones lee can.
most shinobi's use all-round jutsu's, guy only performs taijutsu...the gates are suitable for taijutsu as it is heavily dependent on physical strength and speed, and why would ninjas train to open gates when then can quite easily train in nijutsu and so on..and ur not damaging ur body that way. opening any gave does damage to the body, the high up the more severe..8th being death.
shinno was different b'cuz he "manipulates the understandings of "Destruction and Rebirth" of muscles that makes it stronger to increase the body's strength. He was even...able to freely access all Eight Gates without any drawbacks as long as he still had access to enough Dark Chakra"


in other words opening the gates had no consequences for him so he opened them without any concerns. lee cant mold any chakra, not sure about guy but i would think his in the same boat
 
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LEAU92

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most shinobi's use all-round jutsu's, guy only performs taijutsu...the gates are suitable for taijutsu as it is heavily dependent on physical strength and speed, and why would ninjas train to open gates when then can quite easily train in nijutsu and so on..and ur not damaging ur body that way. opening any gave does damage to the body, the high up the more severe..8th being death.
shinno was different b'cuz he "manipulates the understandings of "Destruction and Rebirth" of muscles that makes it stronger to increase the body's strength. He was even...able to freely access all Eight Gates without any drawbacks as long as he still had access to enough Dark Chakra"


in other words opening the gates had no consequences for him so he opened them without any concerns. lee cant mold any chakra, not sure about guy but i would think his in the same boat
really good point, that would explain why kakashi is only able to open one gate, because he isn't as versed as lee and guy in taijutsu.

Now, with that being said, if lee were to be purely a taijutsu artist (because might guy also uses ninjutsu sometimes), would he be more skilled with the gates than guy sensei ? i mean lee has never shown any signs of ninjutsu or genjutsu, but might guy has used both (genjutsu at the chunnin exams).

so what do you think ?
 

TJ0001

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you are continuously being harmed in the 8 gates form. theres no way that you become as strong as the 3rd raikage. you will become super fast and yes you will become stronger but right now your kinda stretching the 8 gates abilities
 

LEAU92

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you are continuously being harmed in the 8 gates form. theres no way that you become as strong as the 3rd raikage. you will become super fast and yes you will become stronger but right now your kinda stretching the 8 gates abilities
but the once the gate of healing is opened your body re-energizes itself

let me break it down to you,
when shinobi battle, their mind is the only thing controlling their body. So when they fight, their body has it's own preset's of limitations which can't normally be breached.


this is where it gets interesting
the gates work like this, if your body was an aeroplane with lots of cool buttons that control things, but you are restricted from using them because your body is on autopilot. The gates turn the autopilot off and now the pilot has complete control over the plane.

once the gate of healing is open, the body would ignore the fact it was being harmed, but once the gates close.......... certain after pain lol
 

s0ulja

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really good point, that would explain why kakashi is only able to open one gate, because he isn't as versed as lee and guy in taijutsu.

Now, with that being said, if lee were to be purely a taijutsu artist (because might guy also uses ninjutsu sometimes), would he be more skilled with the gates than guy sensei ? i mean lee has never shown any signs of ninjutsu or genjutsu, but might guy has used both (genjutsu at the chunnin exams).

so what do you think ?
i think lee definitely is capable of holding his own against guy and wont be long before he surpasses him. couple of episodes ago in the anime guy admitted lee is a natural at drunken fist (better than him). plus in konoha the next generation always surpasses the previous (will of fire+king)..we've seen that theme over and over
 
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LEAU92

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i think lee definitely is capable of holding his own against guy and wont be long before he surpasses him. couple of episodes ago in the anime guy admitted lee is a natural at drunken fist (better than him). plus in konoha the next generation always surpasses the previous (will of fire+king)..we've seen that theme over and over
good point +rep
 
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Toronto

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I think he'd be near indestructable besides instant seals(totsuka sword) but he'd obviously die shortly after so in the end you lose 2 great shinobi, sacrificed for the weaklings.... :(
 

xxSAGExx

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Well I am almost 100 percent positive that nowhere in the manga does it say that each gate increases the user's power by a factor of 10. That is ludicrous and sounds sort of like DBZ.

First off I will explain what the gates are and how they work. In the Narutoverse, ninjas use chakra for everything. They use it for taijutsu as well as ninjutsu and genjutsu, chakra is basically their version of DBZ's ki.

So ninjas have all of this chakra in their bodies, but to prevent them from using it all at once there are eight gates that limit chakra flow and strength to the muscles to prevent chakra exhaustion and the body wearing itself out.

What the gates do is release a gate on your chakra, allowing you access to more of your maximum potential chakra and strength (speed goes along with this as it is directly related to leg strength). So with each gate opened you have access to more of your maximum chakra, the gates does not increase the amount of chakra you have nor does it give you speed boosts like the raiton armor or sage mode, what it does instead is allows you to access your highest potential strength (and speed) and chakra output.

This however comes at a cost, with all of the chakra the ninja in the gates is using they become tired and lose chakra at a much higher rate. Also because their muscles are working so hard and at levels they don't normally the mucles start to tear and wear down. This is why Guy is always tired after using the gates and usually in pain depending on which gate he has opened, this is why he and Lee train purely in taijutsu and muscle strength, so that they can reduce the muscle wear and tear caused by the gates.

So now that we know what the gates are and what they do, let's get into why they could never be the best while used by someone who is not already the best.

Because the gates only allows the user to reach their maximum potential power and chakra levels, the gates user will always fall behind someone who was born with more chakra or has access to different modes that augment their own chakra. (Sage mode, Kyuubi chakra mode, raiton armor) Now this doesn't mean that those people are necessarily faster and stronger, it just depends on how much chakra they are putting into it, but it does mean that if those people are able to surpass the gates user.

My argument here is that you think Guy opening the eighth gate would become the strongest ninja in the Narutoverse, well that is literally an impossibility. He either doesn't have the chakra reserves or the chakra control necessary to push his strength and speed to levels given to people with bijuu level chakra levels.

As we saw in the fight against Kisame, Guy had to go seventh gate just to catch up to Kisame who was running away, and even then his attacks didn't even knock out Kisame let alone kill him. Kisame didn't move because he thought that his shark bullet would absorb Afternoon Tiger, so it was really Kisame's overconfidence that beat him. Guy's movements were still able to be seen, and his strength wasn't super tremendous as he smashed Kisame's body but Kisame was still conscious and later able to perform summonings and a water prison.

Back to the point, Guy and Lee can train their speed and strength, but you can only increase your chakra levels to a certain point, for the most part you are stuck with what you were born with.

So when A who also trains his speed and strength solely, uses his raiton armor there is almost no way that Guy can reach the speeds that A can, because a has bijuu like chakra levels. Maybe his strength is equal or above A's, because I am not sure if lightning armor increases strength or not, but either way he can't be as fast as him.

And as for Naruto and other jinchurriki, if you compare Guy using the gates to them, then that is just insane. What that is doing is saying that Guy's maximum strength and chakra levels is equal to or exceeds that of a bijuu and their jinchurriki's. Naruto's speed whilst using his KM mode is perhaps the fastest that anyone can get, except for Naruto who still has the means to go much faster as he has Sage Mode as well and does not have full access to the Kyuubi's chakra. (By the way can anyone imagine Naruto if he combined KM and SM and then used the gates? He has a high healing rate and near infinite chakra, so that would allow him 100% access to all the chakra he has, man that would be insane)

And I thought I read somewhere in this thread that the gates aren't used that often. Well that would also be incorrect as in either the first or second databook (made by Kishi so it is canon) it says that most jounin can open at least the first two gates. Kakashi used the first gate when climbing a rock wall, so in other words just for fun basically. The gates aren't something super rare and ultra powerful like being a jinchurriki or raiton armor, it is just that Guy and Lee have made it their focus so they have taken it further than most other people.

And to the people who say that it give powers equal or above that of a kage, what does that mean? What makes kages special? Usually it is their unique abilities that make them powerful, something the gates can't give someone. Most kages are faster and stronger than normal ninjas, but that is due to their high chakra levels (I defy you to find a kage who does not have high chakra levels), so that quote only applies to the physical aspect of being a kage. While a gates user who opened the eighth gate might become stronger and faster than most kages, they don't gain the special abilities of a kage and so can only reach their levels in regards to taijutsu but nothing else.

And before I go here is another example of the difference between the gates and someone born strong with high chakra levels. Guy has fought Kisame three times, and the second time Guy was forced to open the fifth gate to be able to fight on par with Kisame. But what do we know about that fight? It was a 30% chakra clone who didn't actually have the real Samehada. And Guy in the seventh gate was still not able to easily kill Kisame, who was taken by surprise and already weakened from before. If used by an average person the gates only puts people on par with exceptional people.


EDIT: to the Lord of Kaos, the third raikage would be able to withstand much more than a few hits from Guy's jutsus. That is if Guy is even able to perform more than one or two, he was exhausted after just running after Kisame and using Afternoon tiger once. The third raikage on the other hand survived the rasenshuriken, and more importantly is able to tank the TBB (as of now the most powerful attack there is), and we don't even know how many the third raikage took from the eight tails.
I agree with alot of this but not with all. Gai is a strong jounin but his strength is not near tsunade's or A's, as others stated Gai had to go 7th gate to catch and beat kisame. To be fair kisame was weaken but did absorbed bee's chakra. Remember we haven't seen tsunade fight in alot of battles just the one that she fought against orochimaru and kabuto with Jiraiya and co and they used tsunade's fear of blood in the mid to weaken her. After she overcame her fear of blood she was lifted gamabuta's blade with ease and stab orochimaru's snake. Tsunade never showed what she can really do, hopefully we get to in the war. Now back on point, The Gates does give the user power around kage level but when kakashi said this he knows that the ninja would be between high chunin to jounin before they can be trained to open all gates, lee was at chunin when he could open 5 gates ( he almost beat Gaara who was chunin level) but got tired out before winning the battle and lost. Gai trained to strengthen his body so he can last in the gates longer and fight at a higher level. As some already said the gates opens to give you access to more of your chakra that is too much for the body to handle, the last Gate is at the heart, its already stated by kakashi that no matter how much training some one has they can't strengthen their organs (when neji was fighting hinata during the chunin exam.). Kisame has high chakra level and is kage level and Gai was able to beat him with the element of surprise (afternoon tiger) but choose not to kill him so they can get some info out of him so knocked him out. Now if Gai was to go 8 gates I highly doubt he will surpass the 4th Raikage's speed and strength since his lightning armor increases his speed,strength, endurance and durability ( pretty much the same as what sage mode can do except the rest of sage mode powers). We know Senjus and uzumakis have strong bodies so my question is do you think they can open all 8 gates without dying? They might feel exhausted after but not die. Oh and since sage mode gives Naruto's enhanced speed, strength, endurance, durability, increase his chakra by doubling it if not more, natural chakra surrounds his body to extend his attacks, and he becomes the strongest sensory type we seen, so I want to know if Naruto can open all 8 gates in sage mode without dying since his body has never been shown to be injuried in sage mode. I doubt they show it but it makes sense that he wouldn't die and Gai would use it in a battle to save lee or not as long as he needs it to beat his enemy. For example if Gai was fighting sasuke, kabuto or any edo tenso(sp) and he can't win at 7gates then he will go 8 gates to take out whoever he can.
 

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8 gates are powerful enough but sharingan users pawns them because sharingan can read their attack and i can say its anti of taijutsu
Umm wrong ... It was already stated and shown that the Sharingan can see and read movements but it means nothing if their opponent is faster than the uchia then they wouldn't be fast enough to react to attacks, the two best battles will be sasuke(three tomoes) vs Naruto(one tail form) and sasuke(MS) vs the 4th Raikage(lightning armor) . In these battles sasuke saw their movements but wasn't fast enough to react to their attacks, sasuke had to go curse mark lvl 2 against Naruto and had to have sasunoo up for protection against the Raikage.
 
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