Might Gai vs Tsunade

[Tazzilla88]

Ahh. If I get the chance to, I'll reply when on a computer.

That's fine, I'll be afk for a few hours have to go to a fraternity event.

 

[Touken]

^ not even true... He nearly hit Gai....

Kisame struck first IIRC.

 

[Black Wolf]

Now if the technique had truly weakened why was the air still in the shape of a tiger when it came out, pushing through all of that water would have distorted the tiger, lest Kishi intended for it to be at full power.

Because the attack is simply that powerful. That doesn't change the fact that it occurred under water and had to travel through the enemies most powerful jutsu before hitting the target. That doesn't change the fact it wasn't performed with intent to kill.

The attack was obviously properly launched as the tiger formed, Madara, just easily dealt with the attack and it came back and bit guy in the butt.

It wasn't "obviously" anything. Madara swung down his staff as Gai was still forming the attack.

OR Ya know, Madara could have been distracted by being thrown. He doesn't need to be damaged to be distracted. And Damaged =/= losing his grip on an active technique.

So you're argumentative style basically revolves around pulling the stupid card. Good to know.

Madara's Susano'o was overwhelmed by Afternoon Tiger, his Mokuton loosened considerably, and he was next seen in a pile of rubble. Literally all the evidence we have point to Susano'o being destroyed.

Let me rephrase this, it is not out of character for Madara to sit out of a fight whilst bored or entertained

Except he made it pretty clear he was screwing around with the Kage. He let himself get hit by Jinton just to make them see Hashirama's face on his chest. Against Gai, he outright said he planned on capturing the 8 tails and 9 tails prior to the Juubi's revival. He had a set goal; he wasn't fighting them just for the hell of it.

Interesting, I conceded that in the NV stabbed in heart doesn't mean sure death, but you proceeded to try to mount on that to make yourself look more right. I just find that more interesting.

What is interesting is you said "torso shots aren't heart shots" so I went ahead and gave you a plethora of heart shots to fully satisfy you.

Now to the 1st bold, if Gai was packing that much instant KO power in his 7th gate, why did he punch Kisame with an unrestrained 7th gate punch and not do an insta-kill like Chouji did to Jirobo.

For the, what, tenth time:

1) Gai was not trying to kill Kisame
2) Gai's attack was performed underwater
3) Gai's technique went through Kisame's ultimate technique before actually hitting Kisame

Seriously, I've said this in literally every reply to you.

To the second bold, that's not an instant death, it's being hit by several fire balls constantly. However, iirc Kisame's clone was completely stationary at time of Asu kujaku.

Yeah, it actually is insta-death. Asa Kujaku is one attack that occurs over the span of a second or so. Who cares if Kisame's clone was completely stationary? What does that have anything to do with the power of the attack itself? It's not like Tsunade would have a hope in the world of dodging it, if that is what you are implying. Of course, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if you are operating under the delusion that Tsunade can keep up with 6 gated Gai.

The first bold is a clear lie. While Tsunade is not the most durable shinobi, I would say that her durability is top ten. I think quality of feats is more relevant than having a multitude of feats. Thus, I will use only few feats to emphasize my point. I will go from least impressive feats to most impressive feats. Therefore, the place to begin is with her fight with Kabuto.
In her battle with Kabuto he cut her intercostal muscles, her bicep muscles, and her Rectus Femoris.

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You, like many others here, don't understand what durability is. Durability is the ability to take attacks head on without damage, ala Kakuzu, 3rd Raikage, Kimimaro. She was clearly damaged by the attacks and Kabuto outright stated he was not aiming to kill her.

2nd Bold not quite what Mabui said.

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Her words seem to imply a certainty perhaps as a result of having tried it before

Her words imply that it theoretically would kill anyone else due to its mechanics. She did not state ever attempting it on anyone else, no matter what translation you use. She simply states that her understanding of the jutsu's mechanics implicates it would kill a person.

And you know what? Technically, the technique can kill a person. The amount of blood a normal person can lose is limited, but this is a nonfactor due to Tsunade's regeneration. Not her durability. Tsunade even credits her own survival to regen, not durability.

3rd Bold, Counter Argument- Sage Rasengan injured Obito, you can't stack toughness like that. Especially not tailed forms, as Juubidara was in human form.

Obito lacked the two strongest tailed beasts - his form is far weaker than Madara's. We see the gap in between the beasts when 50% Kyuubi casually smacks around five other beasts. And Sage Mode Rasengan is a strong attack; I see nothing wrong with it hurting Obito upon contact.

Juubidara isn't in "human form" anymore so than KN6 was. He is in his Juubi-cloak form, just like Naruto has a cloak on him when he goes Bijuu mode. See the flames on the bottom of his cloak; it is a

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.

 

[Black Wolf]

Gai only utilizes air Pressure based moves, which would explain the shock-waves as well. As I said, and keep repeating, Speed of Light is a huge argument. You are just creating excuses to validate something which isn't there. I wouldn't go into intricacies of Translations and Language boundaries exist. Her reluctance to not teleport them speaks volumes.

You accuse me of language intricacies, yet venture into scientifical ones in a manga where the very character you are arguing for can regenerate having her gut torn open.

Tsunade has never been implied to have above average durability, at all. The 4th Raikage got out of the technique fine, while Tsunade was covered in lacerations. The 4th Raikage survived with durability, while Tsunade survived with regeneration.

Mabui also expressed uncertainty that the 4th Raikage would survive, saying only that he "might survive" due to being a relative of the 3rd Raikage, yet he came out unscathed. It is obvious she spoke of the technique in theory, not in application, which ended up being nowhere near what her expectations were.

They are hardly techniques, as they were present on the original sage as well - swirling underneath him as they appear to be connected to the Sage's body if not explicitly, implicitly. They are utilized by the Sage to nullify Chakra based attacks.

No, they can block Taijutsu too, as evidenced by Madara blocking Gai's Evening Elephant. The fact that Madara turtled up in them to defend from Gai's last Elephant punch further indicates they have durability extending to defense against things that are not exclusively ninjutsu.

The manga states that only Taijutsu and Senjutsu work - which tiers? None are given. Therefore, you cannot simply assume that a tier exists, when the manga has declared both of these to be the Jin's Achilles heel, then so they are.

The manga showed us that Taijutsu and Senjutsu are the only things that work. It did not give us any indication that they hurt a Juubi Jinchuuriki more than they would hurt anyone else, which was what you implied in your previous post.

As for the durability boost, then let's see feats of Juubi Jins impossible level durability that you keep repeatedly suggesting. The fact that it actually has a body and the 9 Tailed Beasts are nothing but chakra manifestations born from its chakra torn up in nine pieces completely chages their properties.

If you are seriously suggesting that the Juubi Jinchuuriki has lower durability than KN6, then there is little for me to discuss with you here. We have seen the components of the Juubi; telling me that the Juubi's durability is somehow less than the sum of its parts is borderline nonsensical, especially in Shonen.

The orbs have no durability.

They blocked Gai's

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, which is capable of creating a mile deep hole. They, without a doubt, have durability.

Tsunade wins this handily. Nothing in Gai's arsenal is breaking her apart. Nothing suggests it, nothing shows it.

Of course not.

Gai casually runs circles around her and Asa Kujaku's her to death. Hell, his base speed coupled with nunchucks can suffice in bashing her skull open. And if you don't think headshots will kill her, depleting her chakra on regenerating it will.

EDIT:

No offense to either of you, but I'm done here. I've repeated myself ad nauseum; literally anything I reply back to you is probably something I have said already. Your views are far too different from mine for me to even hope to begin seeing with either of you eye to eye. Going any further will turn this into an even more repetitive bout that I am not willing to engage in any longer.

 

[shelke]

You accuse me of language intricacies, yet venture into scientifical ones in a manga where the very character you are arguing for can regenerate having her gut torn open.

Tsunade has never been implied to have above average durability, at all. The 4th Raikage got out of the technique fine, while Tsunade was covered in lacerations. The 4th Raikage survived with durability, while Tsunade survived with regeneration.

Mabui also expressed uncertainty that the 4th Raikage would survive, saying only that he "might survive" due to being a relative of the 3rd Raikage, yet he came out unscathed. It is obvious she spoke of the technique in theory, not in application, which ended up being nowhere near what her expectations were.

No, they can block Taijutsu too, as evidenced by Madara blocking Gai's Evening Elephant. The fact that Madara turtled up in them to defend from Gai's last Elephant punch further indicates they have durability extending to defense against things that are not exclusively ninjutsu.

The manga showed us that Taijutsu and Senjutsu are the only things that work. It did not give us any indication that they hurt a Juubi Jinchuuriki more than they would hurt anyone else, which was what you implied in your previous post.

If you are seriously suggesting that the Juubi Jinchuuriki has lower durability than KN6, then there is little for me to discuss with you here. We have seen the components of the Juubi; telling me that the Juubi's durability is somehow less than the sum of its parts is borderline nonsensical, especially in Shonen.

They blocked Gai's

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, which is capable of creating a mile deep hole. They, without a doubt, have durability.

Of course not.

Gai casually runs circles around her and Asa Kujaku's her to death. Hell, his base speed coupled with nunchucks can suffice in bashing her skull open. And if you don't think headshots will kill her, depleting her chakra on regenerating it will.

EDIT:

No offense to either of you, but I'm done here. I've repeated myself ad nauseum; literally anything I reply back to you is probably something I have said already. Your views are far too different from mine for me to even hope to begin seeing with either of you eye to eye. Going any further will turn this into an even more repetitive bout that I am not willing to engage in any longer.

The burden of proof still lies on you, as I see, yet again, nothing but nitpicking to pick apart something as simple as a declarative dialogue.

Never suggested it, but I asked you to show me feats for your utterly outlandish claims, given that the Juubi's extensions were taken down by every damn ninja on the battle field when it survived its own tbb, presents a lopsided view of its defensive capabilities. I still see no feats other than claims.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I said they are its Achilles heel and that's canon. It blocked what? It's air pressure, not a physical attack. Which would explain why the shield was intact despite the attacks from behind, when they literally passed through it, yet Madara was feeling the affects of the pressure-based attacks.

Once the actual physical attack happened, it broke instantly -

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- I might have exaggerated on its durability a bit - should have added a tier factor - , but I cannot see how these orbs have much purpose beyond Chakra nullifiers.

Whatever you say. I don't agree at all. So it's your opinion, not a fact.

PS: I am glad you said that, because this is my final reply to you as well. We seem to be running around in circles and it's not going anywhere. Better end this now before it ends up getting repetitive and redundant.

 

[Conspirator.]

The orbs aren't actually onmymouden.

 

[Latios]

I don't see how Tsunade dodges Asakujaku

 

[Joseph Gomes]

GUYS, CHECK OUT MY OTHER THREAD. I SAY GAI OWNS TSUNADE WITH 6TH GATE ONLY

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[BenjerminGaye]

The only times in which punches and kicks have removed body parts/ hit through someone
1. Tsunade's punch
2. Cloaked Lee's kick
3. Gai's 8th gate Dynamic Entry

Nothing suggests gates power before 8th gate is capable of lopping off limbs from not element enhanced strikes.

And both Tsunade and Gai have amazing staminas.
I mean Tsunade healed and refilled the chakra of 4 kages, including Ay, before healing Shikamaru from chakra depletion, summoning Katsuyu, and then healing thousands of SA soldiers.

Gai on the other hand, has been fighting for an extremely long time, and used multiple gates. That said he also had the benefit of having a chakra cloak for some parts of his battle. But he fought the night against the seven swordsmen, and initially fought against Obito seemingly without a heal (though Sakura was with him when he fought the 7 swordsman so maybe not)

Actually lee cut clean through madara.

 

[KingHashirama]

prep time = Tsunade


normal simple fight with her other abilities restricted = Gai in 8th gate.

 

[BlackFlame44]

I hold that the 8th Gate is a tie. And whether Gai survives next chapter (and I don't think he will) he'd Naruto to save him, anyway so that he can't 'solo' with the 8th gate.
I'm going to say Tsunade wins or ends in a draw.

....


OT: Am I missing something?

 

[Tazzilla88]

Because the attack is simply that powerful. That doesn't change the fact that it occurred under water and had to travel through the enemies most powerful jutsu before hitting the target. That doesn't change the fact it wasn't performed with intent to kill.

My entire point is that nothing suggests the move gets any stronger than it was ever shown to be.

It wasn't "obviously" anything. Madara swung down his staff as Gai was still forming the attack.

And the tiger appeared from the punch or the handsign?

So you're argumentative style basically revolves around pulling the stupid card. Good to know.

Ad hominem

Madara's Susano'o was overwhelmed by Afternoon Tiger, his Mokuton loosened considerably, and he was next seen in a pile of rubble. Literally all the evidence we have point to Susano'o being destroyed.

No, either interpretion fits perfectly. Ideally, if Susanoo were to break it would have been when it took all the force of the wind originally, not by a secondary effect, namely of susanoo hitting stone. Yet in the scan where Hirudora grabbed Susanoo it show now signs of breaking. And the ruble could easily be the by product of the daytime tiger

Except he made it pretty clear he was screwing around with the Kage. He let himself get hit by Jinton just to make them see Hashirama's face on his chest. Against Gai, he outright said he planned on capturing the 8 tails and 9 tails prior to the Juubi's revival. He had a set goal; he wasn't fighting them just for the hell of it.

If Maddy was so gun-ho about this plan, why didn't he jump back into battle as soon as he could?

For the, what, tenth time:

1) Gai was not trying to kill Kisame
2) Gai's attack was performed underwater
3) Gai's technique went through Kisame's ultimate technique before actually hitting Kisame

Seriously, I've said this in literally every reply to you.

Breaking this down:
1. That doesn't mean the attack is ever strong enough to have killed said opponent. As it has never been seen to be any stronger. Asserting it gets stronger when we've seen it occur multiple times goes against logic.
2. I was talking about this punch.

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Yeah, it actually is insta-death. Asa Kujaku is one attack that occurs over the span of a second or so. Who cares if Kisame's clone was completely stationary? What does that have anything to do with the power of the attack itself? It's not like Tsunade would have a hope in the world of dodging it, if that is what you are implying. Of course, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if you are operating under the delusion that Tsunade can keep up with 6 gated Gai.

1. Kisame did
2. I know the base thinks Tsunade's all slow, but in the Madara fight, she got some really good speed feats.

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You, like many others here, don't understand what durability is. Durability is the ability to take attacks head on without damage, ala Kakuzu, 3rd Raikage, Kimimaro. She was clearly damaged by the attacks and Kabuto outright stated he was not aiming to kill her.

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Kabuto calling her not an ordinary person.

Her words imply that it theoretically would kill anyone else due to its mechanics. She did not state ever attempting it on anyone else, no matter what translation you use. She simply states that her understanding of the jutsu's mechanics implicates it would kill a person.

Did you read what I posted.

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She's clearly stating others have tried it.

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No uncertainty. Because others have tried she knows the effects.

And you know what? Technically, the technique can kill a person. The amount of blood a normal person can lose is limited, but this is a nonfactor due to Tsunade's regeneration. Not her durability. Tsunade even credits her own survival to regen, not durability.

She said the person comes out dead. Not the person succumbs to their injuries. It's actually really helpful if you read the scans I post.

Obito lacked the two strongest tailed beasts - his form is far weaker than Madara's. We see the gap in between the beasts when 50% Kyuubi casually smacks around five other beasts. And Sage Mode Rasengan is a strong attack; I see nothing wrong with it hurting Obito upon contact.

strength=/= durability. I'm asking for durability feats. Standard ninjutsu has no effect whatsoever, fine. So show me durability. That's the claim. All I'm asking for is evidence.

Tsunade has never been implied to have above average durability, at all. The 4th Raikage got out of the technique fine, while Tsunade was covered in lacerations. The 4th Raikage survived with durability, while Tsunade survived with regeneration.

Incorrect. Mabui says one doesn't survive the teleportation. Tsunade survived with durability and healed with regeneration.

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Mabui also expressed uncertainty that the 4th Raikage would survive, saying only that he "might survive" due to being a relative of the 3rd Raikage, yet he came out unscathed. It is obvious she spoke of the technique in theory, not in application, which ended up being nowhere near what her expectations were.

Um, doesn't that simply mean that both the 4th Raikage and Tsunade are durabile, as the only one to successfully survive it before was the third raikage?

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But then again she doesn't know what Kabuto does, that Tsunade has above average durability.

If you are seriously suggesting that the Juubi Jinchuuriki has lower durability than KN6, then there is little for me to discuss with you here. We have seen the components of the Juubi; telling me that the Juubi's durability is somehow less than the sum of its parts is borderline nonsensical, especially in Shonen.

Didn't juubi clones get cut by swords and the like?

Gai casually runs circles around her and Asa Kujaku's her to death. Hell, his base speed coupled with nunchucks can suffice in bashing her skull open. And if you don't think headshots will kill her, depleting her chakra on regenerating it will.

lel Tsunade would completely crush Gai in base. This is why I'm not taking you seriously.

 

[Dark Riku]

Guy in Seven Gates defeats her.

 

[maniaoqan]

Her seal can protect her until 7th gate. 7th gate pulverize her.

 

[hokutoshinken]

Gai one shot her easy.

 

[Chihaya]

Tsunade would win, I think Gai would have to go 7th Gate+, and even then.... meehhh...

What kind of Hokage can't take on and beat a ninja from their own village? Haha.

 

[Conspirator.]

Tsunade would win, I think Gai would have to go 7th Gate+, and even then.... meehhh...

What kind of Hokage can't take on and beat a ninja from their own village? Haha.

A hokage like Tsunade genius.

 

[Chihaya]

A hokage like Tsunade genius.

Just an opinion. I love Gai more than Tsunade I was just thinking about the overall picture :[

 

[Strict]

2. I know the base thinks Tsunade's all slow, but in the Madara fight, she got some really good speed feats.

Can't you stop with that speed wank? Tsunade has no speed feats. When she ran towards Madara, she hold a whole dialog with him before reaching him and hitting his ribcage. The other scans are similarly worthless. Speed feat is something that was truly considered as a speed feat in the Manga, whether the user visibly moved with incredible speed to blitz an opponent i.a. or it was said by another character. Again, stop the wank, by working out your scans.

 

[Joshutsu]

A hokage like Tsunade genius.

A hokage like hiruzen and hashirama as well.

Edit: surprised people went at it all night in here. I figured the tsunade fans would bounce after noone brought better arguements than gai would just go at her non stop with his techniques (which everyone who has seen him fight knows he cannot do or go for her head (obvious last resort for debates involving her)