A real body is used as a sacrafice to summon the soul of the person you want to summon.
Around the sacrafice paper like stuff is assembling and that is forming the body of the person summoned with Edo tensei.
Meaning the sacrafice body is real but the Edo tensei body around it is not.
That is what I understood at least.
The way I interpreted it is his "edo tensei body" is the real body is used as the medium. The paper like substance that forms his appearance isn't a body. When Kabuto did the modifications, he did them to the body, not to that paper stuff. Otherwise Madra shouldn't have Hashirama's face on him anymore since the paper stuff went away upon his revival
The way I interpreted it is his "edo tensei body" is the real body is used as the medium. The paper like substance that forms his appearance isn't a body. When Kabuto did the modifications, he did them to the body, not to that paper stuff. Otherwise Madra shouldn't have Hashirama's face on him anymore since the paper stuff went away upon his revival
It is a bit vague how it works indeed, but maybe the edo tensei material became a real body.
I didnt see the paper stuff going away. There were some pieces around the body though, when going from edo to mortal.
It seemed to me the body changed from edo to real.
1) Kabuto reverted Madara's corpse/remains of body to young prime body in some magic way(probably injected more Senjuu DNA and somehow it was able to reverse agging process... nothing shocking as Senjuu DNA is cure to everything)
2) Kabuto injected Nagato's DNA or Madara's DNA from young age to make Madara's Edo version posses Rinnegan
3) Kabuto brought Madara's body back as young with Rinnegan
4) Rinne Tensei was used on Madara. Due to Kabuto altering Madara's body after his death... somehow Rinne tensei register the lastest state of body(most likely before death as Most Dead bodies are not experimented on) ... but Rinnegan was created in Edo Tensei's body by some secret methods which were not fitting to Madara's altered body
5) Rinne tensei brought Madara in the lastest state of body he was, which was young body with no eyes... or due to Madara's Rinnegan still being present in this world... Rinne tensei could not rebuild his eyes or it can not teleport them from whatever location inside Madara's eyesockets. That why Rinne tensei didn't rebuild his eyes.
Last reason: maybe Rinne tensei and Edo Tensei are connected techniques somehow... and that why Rinne tensei can affect Edo Tensei and use moving corpse to turns it into real body.
In short: Alteration of body only worked due to being complete BEFORE using Edo Tensei on Madara's body or Edo Tensei and Rinne Tensei techniques are connected and can affect themselves.
I hope it clear up a bit and give more food for thoughts
1) Kabuto reverted Madara's corpse/remains of body to young prime body in some magic way(probably injected more Senjuu DNA and somehow it was able to reverse agging process... nothing shocking as Senjuu DNA is cure to everything)
2) Kabuto injected Nagato's DNA or Madara's DNA from young age to make Madara's Edo version posses Rinnegan
3) Kabuto brought Madara's body back as young with Rinnegan
4) Rinne Tensei was used on Madara. Due to Kabuto altering Madara's body after his death... somehow Rinne tensei register the lastest state of body(most likely before death as Most Dead bodies are not experimented on) ... but Rinnegan was created in Edo Tensei's body by some secret methods which were not fitting to Madara's altered body
5) Rinne tensei brought Madara in the lastest state of body he was, which was young body with no eyes... or due to Madara's Rinnegan still being present in this world... Rinne tensei could not rebuild his eyes or it can not teleport them from whatever location inside Madara's eyesockets. That why Rinne tensei didn't rebuild his eyes.
Last reason: maybe Rinne tensei and Edo Tensei are connected techniques somehow... and that why Rinne tensei can affect Edo Tensei and use moving corpse to turns it into real body.
In short: Alteration of body only worked due to being complete BEFORE using Edo Tensei on Madara's body or Edo Tensei and Rinne Tensei techniques are connected and can affect themselves.
I hope it clear up a bit and give more food for thoughts
Everything you just stated are egregious assumptions.
Kabuto did not know whether or not Madara had Rinnegan. That means he did nothing to Madara's body that related to creating an Edo Tensei Rinnegan. All he did was add a great deal of Senju DNA to his edo, reversing the aging process. He obviously revived Madara old and made him young through this method. The only reason Madara had Rinnegan was because he was originally revived old, meaning after he had the Rinnegan, which means the "all jutsu" rule of Edo Tensei extended to his Rinnegan.
Everything you just stated are egregious assumptions.
Kabuto did not know whether or not Madara had Rinnegan. That means he did nothing to Madara's body that related to creating an Edo Tensei Rinnegan. All he did was add a great deal of Senju DNA to his edo, reversing the aging process. He obviously revived Madara old and made him young through this method. The only reason Madara had Rinnegan was because he was originally revived old, meaning after he had the Rinnegan, which means the "all jutsu" rule of Edo Tensei extended to his Rinnegan.
Heres what I think, nobody is thinking about how Rinnei Tensei works. It drags the soul and puts it back into a body since Madara's soul got dragged back into the edo tensei body he is still in that young body. If it was returned back to his own body he would be under that cave where his old body is.
The reason why he has Hashirama's face is because probably because of what I said above or he himself might have put that there when he took a portion of his powers at the valley of the end and not Kabuto.
He doesn't have his Rinnegan because he gave them away before he died, although he had a sharingan in one eye it wasn't his. That's what I think anyways.
This is my thinking on how he kept his youthful edo body, but not his edo eyes.
We see Madara's eyes disintegrating. This is because Madara's eyes would have had to be completely reconstructed from Madara's DNA by Kabuto, since Madara had no eyes at the moment of his death. Madara's body was only altered and not reconstructed. It was still his body, but just altered. Those weren't his eyes, they were copies of his eyes. This explains why his eyes dissapeared, but he was able to keep his youthful self (instead of his older self).
Then again, the eyes may have not been reconstructed by Kabuto and simply were able to be brought back because edo tensei is cool like that(since Sasori's entire body was able to be brought back, regardless of it being a puppet). Since the eyes were already in existence somewhere else, they simply dissapeared is also a popular idea, Edit: and I don't see why it's not possible. Sounds very possible, and is really pretty much what I said above, they were copies of eyes made by edo tensei from Kabuto, but the body was simply modified not a copy. The eyes then dissapear because his real eyes exist somewhere else, and the edo tensei copies aren't able to be edo'd and thus dissapear.
We've never seen Rinne Tensei used on an Edo. The previous RT used by Nagato was only used on people who just died, obviously.
The only thing I can think of is that Edos, when Rinne Tensei'd, just continue to use the appearance of the original reanimation. If Hiruzen had Rinne Tensei used on him right now, he should remain old. But if he had a special Edo, the same as Madara's, he probably would be revived in his prime.
Or maybe Rinne Tensei just always revives people in their prime / youth. Imagine if Rinne Tensei was used on old man Hiruzen, or a cancer-stricken person. If Rinne Tensei was supposed to "revive people as they were when they died," They would just die again right away, anyway.
Madara wanted to be revived before Kabuto was even in the picture. Why would Madara want to be revived as an old man? He knew he would come out of it youthful.
So, my money is on RT always reviving people to when they were the healthiest.
In terms of his eyes, no idea. If Itachi was revived with Rinne Tensei, we may have more clarification since his eyes are technically in Sasuke, the same way that Madara's eye is in Obito.
Heres what I think, nobody is thinking about how Rinnei Tensei works. It drags the soul and puts it back into a body since Madara's soul got dragged back into the edo tensei body he is still in that young body. If it was returned back to his own body he would be under that cave where his old body is.
The reason why he has Hashirama's face is because probably because of what I said above or he himself might have put that there when he took a portion of his powers at the valley of the end and not Kabuto.
He doesn't have his Rinnegan because he gave them away before he died, although he had a sharingan in one eye it wasn't his. That's what I think anyways.
Madara directly stated that the Hashirama face was put on his chest by Kabuto. Hashirama saw the face and believed Madara did it himself, yet Madara refuted the idea saying it was Kabuto's actions, not his.
Also, it is unlikely that Rinne Tensei actually forces the soul back into the body manually. It more than likely returns life force to the body in question, thus the soul automatically returns to the recently healed body. Proof of this is found in the hell realm that Nagato used. It manually fired what looked like souls into each of the dead bodies. But it is not possible for the hell realm to have collected those souls, at least not in any way shown in the manga. We saw Pain extract souls from bodies (Human realm) but he simply killed most of his victims. The ones he simply killed likely did not have their souls manually collected. So to me, the hell realm simply returns life-forces to the bodies in question and the soul automatically returns to the body as a result.
These are some very good questions which I dont think their are any real good answers too, but Ill let you know how I managed to make sense of thnigs:
1) He was revived in his young state because he body was already dead and destroyed, nothing but bones. Seeing as to how to soul has no body to return to the most logical thing would be for the soul to create a body in whatever l likeness the soul see's itself as. If Madara invisioned himself as the young Madara then it would be likely that he would be revived in that form as oppose to the old Madara.
2&3) These are 2 and the same, the problem comes from believing that Kabuto was the one who implanted Hashirama's Face on Madara. But it was infact Madara that did this to himself. Keep in mind that he was able to live as long as he did by connecting himself to the Mindless Hashirama Clone he created with the DNA of Hashirama that he managed to get after their last battle. And it was by mixing himself with Hashirama that he was able to acquire the Rinnegan.
I believe the improvements that Kabuto was reffering to as far as Madara's Edo goes is something else, perhaps he made it stronger, made the bond between him and the Senju DNA stronger, or perhaps did something with the Rinnegan. But it is clear that he had merged with Senju DNA (Hashirama Face) prior to Kabuto's interference because that is how he got the Rinnegan in the first place. Remember during his fight with the Kages when he let them hit him just to show them the Hashirama Face on his chest hoping it would demoralize them? How could he have known it was there if Kabuto had put it there without his knowledge?
4) This is a Good question that I dont know the answer to, but I have broken it down to 2 different things:
A) Madara has eyes, but since he is not a full fledged Senju or Uzumaki he cannot make full use of the Rinnegan. He used it as he was Amaterasu'd by Sasuke and couldnt open his eyes since. (Ill actually be making a theory thread out of this)
B) The Rinnegan stands apart from the Jutsu. If that wasnt the case then you could end up with hundreds of Rinnegan just by having one person Rinnegan a Rinnegan user back to life, then kill him, take his eyes, then Revive him again. So perhaps a Rinnegan cannot revive itself from the dead seeing as to how it was never destroyed.
Madara took some of Hashirama´s DNA at the End Valley and started working r&d immediatley after losing the match. On that timeline, apparently he acquired the rinegan. I understand from reading the manga that Madara rose rinegan kekke genkai right at the final clash with Hashirama. This due, him losing and weakened seriously, make up for his lifetime prime, that is why he appears -now- within a blind sharingan-rinegan transition.
I assume that since he was edo'd in his young state, that he was revived in the same state. And that would be the same reason he has Hashi's face on his chest. I don't know why he's blind, Kishi will probably explain that later.
Now my questions are:
A) How did Madara use the Preta ability with his Rinnegan deactived
B) Why did Madara's armor fall off
C) How did coming back to life cause him to deter Sai's sealing jutsu and Hashi's gates
These are some very good questions which I dont think their are any real good answers too, but Ill let you know how I managed to make sense of thnigs:
1) He was revived in his young state because he body was already dead and destroyed, nothing but bones. Seeing as to how to soul has no body to return to the most logical thing would be for the soul to create a body in whatever l likeness the soul see's itself as. If Madara invisioned himself as the young Madara then it would be likely that he would be revived in that form as oppose to the old Madara.
2&3) These are 2 and the same, the problem comes from believing that Kabuto was the one who implanted Hashirama's Face on Madara. But it was infact Madara that did this to himself. Keep in mind that he was able to live as long as he did by connecting himself to the Mindless Hashirama Clone he created with the DNA of Hashirama that he managed to get after their last battle. And it was by mixing himself with Hashirama that he was able to acquire the Rinnegan.
I believe the improvements that Kabuto was reffering to as far as Madara's Edo goes is something else, perhaps he made it stronger, made the bond between him and the Senju DNA stronger, or perhaps did something with the Rinnegan. But it is clear that he had merged with Senju DNA (Hashirama Face) prior to Kabuto's interference because that is how he got the Rinnegan in the first place. Remember during his fight with the Kages when he let them hit him just to show them the Hashirama Face on his chest hoping it would demoralize them? How could he have known it was there if Kabuto had put it there without his knowledge?
4) This is a Good question that I dont know the answer to, but I have broken it down to 2 different things:
A) Madara has eyes, but since he is not a full fledged Senju or Uzumaki he cannot make full use of the Rinnegan. He used it as he was Amaterasu'd by Sasuke and couldnt open his eyes since. (Ill actually be making a theory thread out of this)
B) The Rinnegan stands apart from the Jutsu. If that wasnt the case then you could end up with hundreds of Rinnegan just by having one person Rinnegan a Rinnegan user back to life, then kill him, take his eyes, then Revive him again. So perhaps a Rinnegan cannot revive itself from the dead seeing as to how it was never destroyed.
As for 2&3, you have a lot of points completely wrong.
Madara did infact implant Senju DNA into his body prior to death, but Kabuto did in fact put the Hashirama face on his chest. This significant addition of Senju DNA was what caused the reverse aging of his edo. You say that perhaps Kabuto did something with Madara's Rinnegan, but that is completely untrue. Kabuto was SURPRISED when Madara showed he could use the Rinnegan. He had his own theory on the matter, but did not know for certain. This means that when Kabuto revived him, he did not have the Rinnegan active and without letting him run wild, Kabuto would have never known if he actually had it.
Last 2 points, Madara was aware of Kabuto putting the face on him before fighting the Kages. He looked under his shirt and was surprised to see the DNA Kabuto added to his wound. Then he let the Kages see it later by purposely getting hit. In addition, in the latest chapter he directly states that it was Kabuto that created the face on his chest rather than doing it himself. Hashirama sees his face on Madara and says Madara did a lot of planning, but he denies it and says Kabuto did it.
As for 2&3, you have a lot of points completely wrong.
Madara did infact implant Senju DNA into his body prior to death, but Kabuto did in fact put the Hashirama face on his chest. This significant addition of Senju DNA was what caused the reverse aging of his edo. You say that perhaps Kabuto did something with Madara's Rinnegan, but that is completely untrue. Kabuto was SURPRISED when Madara showed he could use the Rinnegan. He had his own theory on the matter, but did not know for certain. This means that when Kabuto revived him, he did not have the Rinnegan active and without letting him run wild, Kabuto would have never known if he actually had it.
Last 2 points, Madara was aware of Kabuto putting the face on him before fighting the Kages. He looked under his shirt and was surprised to see the DNA Kabuto added to his wound. Then he let the Kages see it later by purposely getting hit. In addition, in the latest chapter he directly states that it was Kabuto that created the face on his chest rather than doing it himself. Hashirama sees his face on Madara and says Madara did a lot of planning, but he denies it and says Kabuto did it.
First off that was alot longer than it needed to be:
You must be registered for see images
The above scan was all you really needed to show as it confirms both that Kabuto placed the Hashi Face on Madara and that Madara knew about it. A single sentence and a Scan would have sufficed, as oppose to a dissertation and 5 scans which all, more or less, showed the same point.
Lastly my comment on Kabuto messing with Rinnegan was a throw away comment "or perhaps did something with the Rinnegan" It wasnt meant to be taken seriously, it was merely a possibility that came to mind that wasn't given much though. Sorry you wasted time addressing it.
The first of your last 2 points which is really just one point goes back to the first point you brought up which is the fact that Kabuto put the Hashirama Face on Madara's Body.
"As for 2&3, you have a lot of points completely wrong." This comment was exaggerated. 2 is not "a lot" and only one of which was an actual point.
Lastly even with the scans you have shown, which are arguable, logic would still dictate that Madara was the one who implanted the Hashirama Face on his own body. This would be the only way to explain why he kept his Edo Body but not his Edo Eyes.
The only other option is another point I raised which was that:
B) The Rinnegan stands apart from the Jutsu. If that wasnt the case then you could end up with hundreds of Rinnegan just by having one person Rinnegan a Rinnegan user back to life, then kill him, take his eyes, then Revive him again. So perhaps a Rinnegan cannot revive itself from the dead seeing as to how it was never destroyed.
And lastly your entire response doesnt take away from the general idea posed in my response. The context of the thread revolves around his Meows question of:
Why cant Madara use his eyes. If he can keep the youngness of the modified edo body, when he switches to a real life body and he can keep the Hashirama face on his chest, why cant he keep the Rinnegan?
4) This is a Good question that I dont know the answer to, but I have broken it down to 2 different things:
A) Madara has eyes, but since he is not a full fledged Senju or Uzumaki he cannot make full use of the Rinnegan. He used it as he was Amaterasu'd by Sasuke and couldnt open his eyes since. (Ill actually be making a theory thread out of this)
B) The Rinnegan stands apart from the Jutsu. If that wasnt the case then you could end up with hundreds of Rinnegan just by having one person Rinnegan a Rinnegan user back to life, then kill him, take his eyes, then Revive him again. So perhaps a Rinnegan cannot revive itself from the dead seeing as to how it was never destroyed.
If you merely wanted to inform, for the sake of the discussion, that my side comment on the Hashirama's Face was wrong then that is all well and good. But the way you decided to pick apart and attack a side comment, which was unrelated to the main question of the thread... well one can only take it personal.
Madara is coming back to life with a real (mortal) body, however, he is revived as a young person, with Hashirama's face on his chest and his eyes are not ready yet or not in his body (seeing how Zetsu is saying to Obito that they are gonna take his Rinnegan back).
Why is he revived in a young state?
Kabuto modified the Edo tensei body right and not the real body of Madara?
Hashirama's face is on his chest, but Kabuto didnt put this on Madara's real body right, but on his edo tensei body?
Why cant Madara use his eyes. If he can keep the youngness of the modified edo body, when he switches to a real life body and he can keep the Hashirama face on his chest, why cant he keep the Rinnegan?
Is it because his real eyes are with Obito and therefore he cant create them in his new mortal body?
I find this slightly confusing and hopefully someone can explain me what is happening.
he is Blind cause the Eyes where Original from Edo Tensei Creation. not from himself since he gave em away.
-He is Revived at young age cause that is what he was in edo tensei. since he got revive in his prime.
-he has Hashi's face. cause he implanted hashirama's dna on his wound after he was stabbed. And that is how he can use mokuton
