[Theory] Madara Twist

[Mr PLATINUM]

you think you can explain abit more..... i mean we all focusing on the white zetsu but what about the black side of zetsu?

 

[senjuwaqas]

That was so Much reading but it was worth the time good theory
and we never see tobi/madara use his sharingan for genjutsu or any thing, He only used it like one time for izanagi

 

[nite]

Nice theory. My 2 cents

Comparing Zetsu to Biju Chakra

Zetsu is 2 parts Black/White & Biju chakra is Black/White.

Hashirama Senju had high Yang Chakra.

When Akatski captured 2 beasts b4 the time skip is when Zetsu was made.

1. Biju Chakra
2. Hashiramas' power/dna.
Those 2 things make Zetsu.

The current Madara Uchiha has Hashiramas' power, and prolly an ability to Regenerate limbs etc. ( Tsunade can do it, so that is not too far fetched. )

 

[Partyboy3543]

Nice theory lots of reading but it does make cents, great job

 

[Sharingdork]

i didn't get it!! tobi controlled mizukage with that same technique danzo used in kage meeting!! so you mean he got his hands on one of the shisui's eyes?! that technique is rare, and can't be copied like you said, now who is tobi then, shisui?! well, i am not flaming up here and just my way of asking you better come up with good answers

Shisui was known as 'Shisui of the Body Flicker'. What if, he could actually teleport, and people just thought that it was the Body Flicker, and therefore, by taking one of Shisui's eyes (allowing him to control the Mizukage), and this eye let's him teleport. It's a part of my theory that I need ponder on some more, and if I can come up with an iron-clad answer, I'll tell you immediatly.

So you believe the original Madara is long dead and Madara/Tobi is a clone of him or the original Zetsu needed for the fact that everyone eventually ages and dies. Personally I dont think so I believe Madara lives long due to the fact that he now posses the body of the Senju and his body has morphed into something simmilar to the Zetsu the only diffrence we have is that I believe him to be the original Madara but the way he is still alive is the same. You dont explain how giving the EMS to Nagato creates rinnegan. Madara says he gave him the rinnegan not EMS. Madara wanted to stay under the radar thats why he was acting like an idiot as tobi and not the leader of Akatsuki and why he gave the rinnegan to Nagato so someone else would be noticed.

The Sage died, and there was no way he could've been beaten in battle, and he had the Rinnegan (superior to the Sharingan, MS, and even EMS). The Sage also had Uchiha and Senju abilities, and Uzumaki abilities, and three other abilities. Just saying....

wow, nice and long theory. I like the way you back your theory with references.
here goes what I think about your theory, I will take it paragraph by paragraph,
The first two paragraphs are all okay.
The third one is off. When madara tore his arm off, it didnt grow back. I f you observe him in subsequent episodes of the series, you will see the wind blowing through his right arm freely as it is empty. However, in other manga's , we see madara with both arms. If you would have noticed, madara always covers his body. he wears masks and gloves. Also, The blob that we saw after he tore his arm was white. IMO, he uses white zetsu as a container for himself. This is how he is able to use Izanagi (you are aware of the source of white zetsu as you metioned alot in the fourth paragraph). I aslos say this because in both the manga and series, we saw hashirama defeat madar with a alot of weapons thus heavily damaging his body.

For the fifth paragraph. no matter how you look at it, even if white zetsu bodys have the lifespan of trees, thus a longer but still definite lifespan, he has an endless supply of zetsu.

In sixth paragraph, you said madara made zetsu make a clone of himself. I thin you need specify which zetsu as they both have similar, and yet very unique features. We know for sure white zetsu is hashirama's clone. Whose clone is the black one or is he even one? Still no clone is exactly as strong as the original no mater how similar they are. I doubt that madara needed have nagato develop the rinnegan. I think he just used him as a proxy in akatsuki. IMO madara developed his EMS into the rinnegan when he obtained hashiram'as power. He did say the rinnegan his to begin with when he fought konan. Also, you pointed out that he has a huge stock of sharingan. Maybe once you get the EMS, its powers stay with you even when you are not with them. I say this because, Itachi should be able to use his full doujutsu despite not having his eyes. Furthermore, madara teleports and becomes Intangible with a normal sharingan. He even summoned the nine tails with a normal sharingan.

Yes Zetsu cant copy Kekkei Genkai. However, I have no reason to believe that madara and tobi are different. Perhaps madara adopted the name tobi to shroud himself in mystery. Only nagato, konan and zetsu knew tobi was madara.

Madara helped Itachi to get revenge on the uchiha for deserting him and being part of the leaf, it also not unlikely that he stocked up on some good sharingan.Maybe he deicded to help Itachi so that he can have him join akasuki and increase it's power. Madar likes good eyes and during the uchiha attack, Itachi already had the mangekyou sharingan.

I am sure that during the uchiha incident, the elders and hokage assumed that only Itach i accomplished the task. Madara , with all his ambitions would never reveal himself. Proof of this was that Danzo himself did not know of madara being alive, being behind the fox attack(he blamed Uchiha) , the uchiha incident( cornered and convinced Itachi to take the mission) or even controlling the akatsuki(naruto had to tell about his converstion with the fourth). it is possible that madara saw danzo at the aftermath before he left the crime scene, since danzo did the clean up and obtained sharingan.

IMO, you are right. I also believe that Itachi assumed no one knew about him in akatsuki. Madara is someone who verifies peoples intentions. I think the moment itachi approached him about the uchiha incident, he sought to find out what itachi was all about.

I mentioned earlier how I think madara still has his ems powers. I dont think he plans to use sasukes eyes except as an added military power. He does all ems jutsu with his eyes as they are.

I think madara so far has some rinnegan abilities and some ems abilities. he should be able to teleport. I dont if you are aware, but the left eye of the MS and EMS controll jutsu like tsukuyomi and teleportation or Intangibility, while the right controls mainly physical attacks like amaterasu. Therefore he should be able to teleport and do tsukuyomi just fine, without any zetsu tech. I think he specifically need the eye as a tool to cast tsukuyomi on the moon (cause he cant use an empty eye or a normal one) and the rinnegan to sync with the gedo mazo. I mentioned this not to contardict myself when I suggested his ems abilities without the EMS.

I dont think zetsu was a mistake, maybe just an approximation of multiple experiments. so far there are many types of zetsu. The Dumb and silly one(white zetsu) and the brain dead ones(war troops) and the bright and black one, lol

In conclusion, I think madara is tobi, and he perhaps damaged his body during the fight with hashirama. He subsequently resorted to using zetsus as his body after he started experimental with hashirama's cells.

Dont think my reply is long, just trying to keep up with your theory. I need a break, phew. what do you think sharingdork?

Did I say that he regrew his arm? I'm sorry if I did, but I meant that he recreated it later (with the tools needed to create Zetsu, mentioned.... somewhere. xd)

An endless supply, so if Zetsu is going to die (which it doesn't, what with the spore thing shown at the meeting), he can just replicate Madara's DNA in a newer Zetsu, thus keeping Tobi alive.

You may be right on the Rinnegan, but I still think he gave it to Nagato so Zetsu could observe it, and learn exactly what it can do without all six paths, and so it's power could mature. And no one knows anything about the Black Zetsu (which is a major problem!), so I can't say anything about it! And the power is in the eyes; if it wasn't you would get NO power from eye transplants (like taking Shisui's eyes).

It's the left eye that has Amatratsu (at least, it is in Sasuke). And his right eye controls the flames.

I thinkt that Zetsu is just as 'dumb and silly' as Tobi is; just pretending for the time being.

I think there's some merit to your theory, and I wish I could get together with you to discuss it at length in person. Maybe we could uncover all the mysteries of the Naruto world....

you think you can explain abit more..... i mean we all focusing on the white zetsu but what about the black side of zetsu?

We know almost nothing about Black Zetsu, which is why we don't talk about him (and he's not relevant to my theory. yet...)

 

[DESTRUCTO]

Alright, my two cents on the theory is that i pretty much agree with you. As for Zetsu, I had an idea that maybe, since the white zetsu is the first's DNA, maybe the black is Madara's DNA. Zetsu could have been the first experiment in combining Uchiha/Senju genetics, hence the split personality, and the different abilities between the two. The other thing, and I agree about the sixth coffin, is the only way for Madara to be in that coffin is if he died, otherwise, he couldn't be summoned to the iimperfect world because he would still be here. But i agree that its Madara, but its not Madara, and your theory is pretty much what I've been thinking this whole time but you explained how Tobi can be madara and Madara can be in the coffin. Good job SD.

 

[shez]

Shisui was known as 'Shisui of the Body Flicker'. What if, he could actually teleport, and people just thought that it was the Body Flicker, and therefore, by taking one of Shisui's eyes (allowing him to control the Mizukage), and this eye let's him teleport. It's a part of my theory that I need ponder on some more, and if I can come up with an iron-clad answer, I'll tell you immediatly.

Umm...there is a big problem with what your saying here. If you remember during the attack on the leaf village by Madara/Tobi he controls the nine-tails using his sharingan and uses teleportation and phasing techs. However Shisui was killed by Itachi a while after this event, so how could Madara have one of Shisui's eye's already? Or are you suggesting that he took it from him a while before he died? This is very unlikely.

 

[Sharingdork]

Umm...there is a big problem with what your saying here. If you remember during the attack on the leaf village by Madara/Tobi he controls the nine-tails using his sharingan and uses teleportation and phasing techs. However Shisui was killed by Itachi a while after this event, so how could Madara have one of Shisui's eye's already? Or are you suggesting that he took it from him a while before he died? This is very unlikely.

I realize that, and this is where it get's complicated!!! That is why I say the phasing is an advanced Zetsu ability, and as for teleportation.... It could easily be a random Uchiha with great power, such as Nagato was a random Uzumaki with great power, and so he was bestowed with the Rinnegan. DO NOT QUESTION ME ON THE SUBJECT ANY MORE!!! I WILL FIND AN ANSWER! eventually.......

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

just to throw this out there....... there is a reason Madara calls himself TOBI!!! and its a good one.. but you have to be familiar with japanese to recognize it. if you'd like me to tell you let me know.

 

[Sharingdork]

just to throw this out there....... there is a reason Madara calls himself TOBI!!! and its a good one.. but you have to be familiar with japanese to recognize it. if you'd like me to tell you let me know.

Tobi mean's "jump", or "kite". The latter refers to a Japanese proverb, "A hawk born of a kite". Because of Tobi, Sasuke has grown even more powerful, and has changed the name of his group from "Hebi (Snake)", to "Taka (Hawk)". Is that what you're refering to?

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

nope something way better reffered to in episode 99........

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

"Ichibi, nibi, and im Tobi!"

To is an archaic form of ten no longer used in japanese. so To-bi is a reference to his moons eye plan.

but yeah the proverb you referred to was a great mention its amazing the amount of things kishi ties together in one story!

 

[Narutosixpaths]

Alright SD I think this is the small hole in your theory to make you think to defend. Your theory is solid and all, but tell me this, if Tobi is an original more powerful zetsu clone of Madara, how does he have the mind of Madara. Implanting the Senju and Uchiha DNA, would give you the posssibility for the physical traits, and jutsu abilities to be present but the way you think your mind is totally different bro. Like when you have kids they don't think or do exactly as you do. While Madara may have been genius theres no way he could have left a perfect plan with the clone as how to react or counter to every possible sitatuion. So this is where I differ with you. I explain that as Tobi is more than a clone of Madara, My idea is that he made the original Zetsu clone get all this done to his specifications, and when he was truly right near death he sealed his soul into at the time either brainless or lifeless clone body giving it life with his own soul. This would explain why is he Madara in everything, but eyes and somewhat body. If you have another explanation for this that would fit better than mine tell me or if I missed something in your huge theory haha its very possible let me know SD.

 

[Sharingdork]

Alright SD I think this is the small hole in your theory to make you think to defend. Your theory is solid and all, but tell me this, if Tobi is an original more powerful zetsu clone of Madara, how does he have the mind of Madara. Implanting the Senju and Uchiha DNA, would give you the posssibility for the physical traits, and jutsu abilities to be present but the way you think your mind is totally different bro. Like when you have kids they don't think or do exactly as you do. While Madara may have been genius theres no way he could have left a perfect plan with the clone as how to react or counter to every possible sitatuion. So this is where I differ with you. I explain that as Tobi is more than a clone of Madara, My idea is that he made the original Zetsu clone get all this done to his specifications, and when he was truly right near death he sealed his soul into at the time either brainless or lifeless clone body giving it life with his own soul. This would explain why is he Madara in everything, but eyes and somewhat body. If you have another explanation for this that would fit better than mine tell me or if I missed something in your huge theory haha its very possible let me know SD.

Madara gives Zetsu his plan. Zetsu is very observant (as we've seen, he can record things; my theory also explains how Tobi can watch battles that Zetsu has 'recorded'). Zetsu could've recorded how Madara was like from the moment he was created to when Madara died, and used that as a reference. Also, no one alive was alive when Madara was, so all they have are records of how Madara acted/behaved, records that could be changed or destroyed/replaced. This let's Tobi reply to situations like Madara would, while no one questioning him if he doesn't. It also explains his awesome acting when he was only Tobi (funny and awesome!, just like White Zetsu), and now Tobi's personality is more like Black Zetsu...(since their the same, just different parts, White Zetsu could probably act exactly like Black Zetsu, if he wished).

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

here is a problem i am having though. i for the most part had thought about the same as your theory when i read it........mostly. BUT......if Madara is only a Zetsu then how could he have a more complete form of Izanagi by being a true uchiha with complete mastery of senju bloodline as he claimed to Konan if he isnt a true uchiha???

 

[Sharingdork]

here is a problem i am having though. i for the most part had thought about the same as your theory when i read it........mostly. BUT......if Madara is only a Zetsu then how could he have a more complete form of Izanagi by being a true uchiha with complete mastery of senju bloodline as he claimed to Konan if he isnt a true uchiha???

Zetsu can copy DNA perfectly (with the exception of KG), or that's what it looks like (don't you think Kisame has specific DNA that let's him merge with Samehada/makes him blue?). But that's just IMO. it also let's Zetsu perfectly be Madara (without Sharingan), and perfectly have the Senju DNA needed for Izanagi. But until the extent of Zetsu's 'copy' ability is revealed, this is all IMO.
Edit:
OR! It's not because he's true Uchiha, but instead, true Senju (being made of Hashirama's cells).

 

[Ziggi San]

ok i dunno what youre talking here xD
but i think that Madara is in Obitos Uchiha body xD
kakashi has keft sharingan eye and tobi aka madara has a right eye...just think about it ;D

 

[Ziggi San]

ok i dunno what youre talking here xD
but i think that Madara is in Obitos Uchiha body xD
kakashi has keft sharingan eye and tobi aka madara has a right eye...just think about it ;D
sory about that i meant left xD

 

[Sharingdork]

ok i dunno what youre talking here xD
but i think that Madara is in Obitos Uchiha body xD
kakashi has keft sharingan eye and tobi aka madara has a right eye...just think about it ;D
sory about that i meant left xD

obito was crushed by boulders, and Tobi has two Sharingan. why does everyone think tobi is obito!?!?!?!?

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

dude Madara has shown his other eye already that theory is long dead......please leave it in the grave