[Theory] Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madara

[fanzao]

wow, wise and clear opinions,

 

[PositiveEmotions]

someone give me a rep i just need one more anyone

 

[Avani]

[*]Into what body did Madara expect Nagato to revive his soul anyway?

Madara seems to be alive at least till second Shinobi world war- that explains know Mu, Onoki, Nagato and also how oro could have had his DNA.

He awoke rinnegan shortly before his death, which allows its user to use any tech or element it's user wishes and can learn. He could have used the splitting tech to avoid the mortal woulds to reach the other half of the body and thought he would use that uzumaki kid to revive himself and merge back.

But all this took too long- things changed and Tobi part adjusted with time and kept on working at original plan but, with some differences. Edo madara is still at the juction it died and wondering what's up...

I should better write a fanfiction- only if I could. lol

@NarutovsGoku: Shut up. ~_~

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

Lol y u telln me to shut up isthatneccessary? Lol

 

[pilyop]

+reps to u for reading this whole thing man.

Did you honestly tho read the wall of comments in here?! Cuz to be honest i didnt even do that. I skimmed some. Especially those by emr.

Yes. I read the first 3 pages first, took a break, then the next three, then the next three. I skipped the ínsults' of course.

Thanks for the reps, and I meant "...EMR and Cyborg", not "...EMS and Cyborg".

When the Edo-Kages were first shown, they all gave the impression that they were unaware of the amount of time that has passed from the moment they died until the moment they were summoned. I think Madara too still had to figure out how much time had passed.

So it's obvious that Madara's last memory of Nagato is that of a child(brat). And that can only be explained by assuming that Madara lived long enough to have at least known about Nagato and the fact that Nagato was a child.

The questions that remain:

• How did Madara manage to live until Nagato came into existence?
• Why does Madara have such a youthful appearance?
• How in the hell did the monstrously powerful Uchiha Madara really die?
• Where is Madara's real body?
• Into what body did Madara expect Nagato to revive his soul anyway?

Well...Tsunade, the greatest medical personality in the narutoverse, seemed quite confident that Madara + Hashirama DNA = Immortality "..." It has pretty much been established that Madara did in fact somehow incorporate Hashirama's DNA into himself. Which, according to Tsunade's conclusion, makes Madara immortal. In fact, Tsunade said that, that makes someone immortal in the actual meaning of the word. Hell, even Itachi called Madara an "..." Invincible Immortal".

So, that explains how Madara was able to live until Nagato was born and still retain his youthful appearance up until his death

Plausible. But your third question is now the BIG question. He has Hashirama DNA+EMS+Rinnegan. He is basically invincible and immortal as Itachi/Tsunade said. How come he died?

Now that I think of it, the question about Madara's death is the one that needs to be answered first.

 

[IntensitySage]

Dayummm lots of work their gotta say good theory but i agree with Kira in the last manga kabuto said the masked man eventually isnt fullfilling madaras plan as he wishes, why isnt he following his own plan, you might be right but i have a feeling tobi is not going with this.

 

[Avani]

Lol y u telln me to shut up isthatneccessary? Lol

You are smart enough to guess yourself.

I consider that there is a small possibility that Tobi is Madara in some way, But I lean more towards Izuna.

 

[Almighty PAIN]

Maybe Tobi is the alter ego of Uchiha Madara.. just like Naruto met the dark version of Him at the waterfall of truth(?)

 

[Cyborg]

Was'nt going to respond to this but i was bored so i guess i might as well pwn you, even though you might not even get that you've been owned but oh well others will.

NarutoVsGoku:it makes it easier for me to address specific points so i will continue to do it.

Well then 2 can play at that game

nothing but the fact that Rinnegan is a level beyond sharingan is for sure. it is not certain that uchiha = senju makes rinnegan or if madaras power played a role or if its to do with ems. whats fact is that rinnegan is a level after sharingan. and also you can infer that rinnegan is only specific to uchiha side and not much to do with senju because it was the uchihas who inheritted the sages eyes. but its plausible that senju powers can give an uchiha a boost to change a sharingan to rinnegan i suppose but i doubt it.

Fine. Then how is it that Madara, being an Uchiha and a master at sharingan and who possessed EMS, was able to awaken rinnegan while Tobi has not and has'nt even shown to have MS and yet he had the rinnegan to give to Nagato? Why?No really, tell me, why? Where did he come across it? Santa Clause?

Tobi himself said that he gave Nagato the rinnegan and was only taking back what was his. how is that bull?

Because i already told you that its impossible for Tobi to have acquired the rinnegan in the 1st place.....he only has 3 tomoe sharingan, how did he get a rinnegan? Did the Gods send it to him? Maybe it was Jesus.



In the likely event that you failed to detect the sarcasm, i mean that Madara has the ability to awaken rinnegan and he can gift his eyes to others, Tobi does'nt even have that option.

no Madara specifically said that he awakened the rinnegan shortly before his death. Madara and Kabuto also validated what Tobi said about Madara in that Madara survived the fight with Hashirama. nothing and nowhere does it says that madar aawakened rinnegan towards the fight with the 1st. thats speculation. not a bad one really but you saying it as if it is fact is not cool.

I meant towards the end of his life , it was a typo. My proposition and theory still stands.

you must be confused in what i am trying to say. because thats not what im trying to say.

Why do you pwn yourself?

i agree with the fact that Madara survived the fight at the valley and meant Nagato some time later. that is very probable based on the manga.

No duh.

how am i contradicting myself? Tobi said that with uchiha and hashirama danzo has the power to control kyuubi but how does that prove he is a liar or that i am contradicting?

Because you said Madara was the only one who could control the kyuubi. You did'nt say 'he was the only one who had controlled the kyuubi', you said he was the only one who could. That changes the whole meaning. Take some english language and comprehension classes, they'll do you a world of good.

and you are right that because Danzo didnt control kyuubi doesnt mean he couldnt. you are correct and i agree. but i believe you missed my point when i said that Madara, Tobi, Hashirama and technically Naruto have been the only ones to tame/control Kyuubi. during the 2nd 9tails attack we know Tobi couldnt have been Hashirama, or Naruto. Danzo has the power to control Kyuubi but during the attack he didnt even have sharingans yet because the massacre hasnt happened nor shisuis death.

Do i really have to go back and quote your original post, thereby embarrassing you even further? Well, do i? You clearly said only Madara could use izanagi and control the kyuubi, when the manga shows someone else can also do it, that means you've been pwned. Which is the case here, but seeing as how you're very slow on the uptake, you may not be able to comprehend this simple fact.

but many evidence points to it being madara being tobi due to kyuubi's recognition, minatos assumption, itachis account, tobis confession and the fact that out of everyone that has controlled or can control the kyuubi, Madara is the only avaible person. process of elimination.

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I have already disproven all of those points in my earlier posts. Would be lovely if you bothered to read them. You're a retard for still bringing those points up. Process of elimination.

Minato made an assumption which he immediately let go of by saying it does'nt matter who you are, Kyuubi never recognized Madara, Itachi's account was flawed as Tobi himself said he had kept secrets from him, there are many people wh can control the kyuubi, any and all past uchihas who take a Hashirama/senju dna sample have all been proven to be able to control it.

you are confused with my point. Danzo can control the Kyuubi. Tobi said so. but could he have controlled the Kyuubi during the 2nd attack on the leaf? yes or no? did he have shisui ete, sharingan arms, and hashirama cells at that point? did he have both hashirama cells and sharingans which allow him power to control Kyuubi during the 2nd attack?

You are the one who is confused. If i prove i can kill you with a bullet to your head with my gun, it does'nt mean only i can kill you. Any one with a bullet and a gun can do that. So, the bullet and gun are the uchiha and Hashirama dna, Danzo is a person who has these weapons like i did, but any number of people can get a weapon, and this proves its possible for all of them to be able to control the kyuubi= killing you. I don't know if you get it now. They just need to know the info, and the Elder son of the Sage would know this, and anyone who had been told by the real Madara would also know this.

idk your point in bringing up the kin gin bros. they ingested kyuubis stomach and gained massive amounts of its powers being able to go 6 tails cloak mode. thats not the same as taming a tailed beast.

That's because you're too slow to pick up that it was an example. I meant that if i had said before the Kin Gin chapter, only Naruto has the kyuubi and the kyuubi chakra, and only he can use it, it would have been the same as what you're saying now, instead of kyuubi chakra you're saying only Madara can use izanagi, etc. Its called an analogy. As it was proven that the Kin Gin also had a part of kyuubi chakra not just Naruto, it can be proven that not just Madara has the ability to use izanagi, or know or do the things that Tobi has done. That's all. It does'nt matter who else?? at this point.

and also Madara was the only uchiha to have controlled 9 tails. this suggest that he was tobi during 2nd attack especially when you also add the facts of other people suggesting tobi was madara during the attack (kyuubi, minato, itachi, tobi)

Fail. Madara was the only uchiha since the founding of konoha, perhaps. An un counted number of uchiha existed before then and the time of the Sage, many of them could have controlled the Kyuubi as Tobi himself said about the senju dna + uchiha powers being able to tame the fox deal. Don't ask me for examples. Everyone knows this Tobi character is a unique person. I can only give the evidence that exists, and can prove things on the basis of likelihood, not make up names of people exactly who Tobi will be . But one thing i can prove: its possible for a person to do what Tobi has done, though it would have to be a very skilled someone, without that person being Madara.

yea i saw the link. thank you. and no i wasnt going to make this arguement because evidently the sharingan is not the only way one can tame a tailed beast.

Congratulations for admitting something.

also having both sharingan and wood release (hashirama cells) is also not the only way to tame a tailed beast.

Yeah, itachi said MS works too,KillerB controls his tailed beast as does Narutoetc. That just makes it more likely for Tobi not to be Madara.

madara tamed kyuubi prior to gaining hashirama cells.
hashirama tamed kyuubi and other tailed beasts without sharingans.

See above.

your sticking to 1 thing and thats you need both and in an attempt to debunk what i said but its not working because you failed to even understand the point i was making is that Madara was the only one by process of elimination to have controlled kyuubi during the 2nd attack.

And you failed to understand that during the 2nd attack, Madara was already dead so it could'nt have been him. This is 90 % likely as Nagato had his rinnegan before the kyuubi attacks as seen from flashbacks, you admit that Madara awakened rinnegan before his death and it is almost confirmed that it was Madara's eyes that he himself gave to Nagato or that Tobi surgically removed from Madara's corpse and gave to Nagato. If you don't buy this, then explain where Tobi got the rinnegan that he gave to Nagato..?

And there is also no basis for your comedicaly flawed process. Any number of people with the right dna and eyes could have done that. Itachi tells us this, so does Tobi. You are just sticking to the 1st thing Minato thought of, not realizing he did'nt know of the Sage of 6 Paths or his sons or of any of the uchiha secrets. And even he later said to Tobi no, you could'nt be Madara.
i said everything Tobi has said has been validated by another character.

and Itachi wasnt wrong with what he said because you forget the reason why he said that. wood release allows one to control or tame a kyuubi as seen with Hashirama, Yamato and even Danzo(yamato not as good or strong as hashirama. and Danzo in theory because he has never shown to do so) but no one had wood release or hashirama cells during the 2nd attack so by elimination it leaves only ones with sharingan to control kyuubi during the attack.

And again you take a ride on your fail boat. Just because you don't know of any one specific person with senju cells does'nt mean there are none who could do this. I need only establish a possibility of Tobi not being Madara, which i have and the rest is circumstantially proven and then emphatically proven by the last 3 chapters.

itachi said only our eyes can control kyuubi because the uchihas or an uchiha were the only suspects to have been the ones to stage the attack. there was no wood user, unless you want to argue that somehow Danzo did it to stage the Uchihas or that teenage Yamato did it.

Tobi could be an unknown character who no one has ever heard of.Madara might have told him all he needed to know on his death bed. I could'nt care less, all i'm proving is Tobi is NOT Madara, not that who he is exactly.

yes you did take what Itachi said out of context. very much. and just cuz you can make a counter arguement for your claims doesnt invalidate the counter arguement as you would hope or make it seem so.

What?? Sometimes, i wonder about you...

anyways most likely Itachi meant that he was suprised that Naruto would be able to tame the kyuubi and make its powers his own because this is an incredibly hard task to do since only a few have ever been able to do it including Bee, Yugito, and Mizukage Yagura (Utakata too i guess). most jinchurikis die because they cannot handle the tailed beast, and the others who handle somehow have very poor control (Gaara and Naruto in the beginning.

'Most likely' . Again you use assumptions with nothing to base them on. Itachi was surprised because his knowledge was limited, he did not know non uchihas could also control the kyuubi. And his old assumption had been proven wrong in my opinion.

when i said expected i mean that it was a great possibility because, as you know very well, that the seal is weakened during birth that a great chance that the tailed beast can be released.

That's the biggest load of crack i've heard in this whole post. Count the number of villages, the number of jinchurikis who are/were female(there are 4 to 5 straight off the bat) and if every time they went into child birth a tailed beast was unleashed, half those villages would be destroyed by now. The seal just gets weakened, thats it. Thats like saying a person gets weakened if they run too much and you then say there's a great possibility they'll die if they ran too much, that inference is false. Same is the case with the seal on a jinchuriki during childbirth and its weakening, it gets weakened it does'nt get destroyed. Damn, i hate how stupid and close to retarded you are that i have to go into such detail to explain simple things to you. It looks like EMR was right about you, you really can't read , can you? You poor bastard. Get off the net, and go get yourself some help.U_U

i didnt mean expected as in people was waiting for it to happened. i meant by it stood a good chance of happening. just like based on statistics you can expect to die from having a motorcycle accident, because in most cases people die in motorcycle accidents.

See above.

Tobi did instigate it. but the Kyuubi being released was a big possiblity even without Tobi being there.

Again, see above, there was only a very small possibility.

yes Minato would have duh. but if no one was there to reseal the kyuubi and kushina was giving birth would the kyuubi be freed? yes or no? based on the probability that tailed beasts stand a great chance of being freed due to broken or weakened seals during childbirth.

That's really rude, using the word duh, coming from a close to retarded poor reader like yourself.
If there was no Tobi there and no Minato, the seal would not have broke, njo.

its natural for a tailed beast to be unleashed during child birth. thats why there were preperations to prevent this disastor with Minato being there to reseal kyuubi while naruto was being born.

No its not natural for an attack like that i already established that above.^

and yes i agree that there wouldnt have been an attack hadnt been for Tobi but that tailed beast being released during childbirth is considered a natural disaster.

Great.

run on sentence? lol

he didnt lie by giving false informaiton. he told the truth but withheld the fact that he instigated it. Sasuke knows that he was responsible. Itachi told him.

No , he blatantly lied. Again, try to read the chapters where Tobi first talks to Sasuke, slowly , several times and ask someone to help you comprehend it. Lets face it, with your intellect, you won't get very far. I mean, you can't even see when i quote another person you still think i'm talking to you.

nothing proves that Tobi attacked Kyuubi to set up the Uchiha. Tobi wanted to attack the leaf, saw his oppurtunity was right since Kushina was giving birth but was stopped and defeated by Minato. the end resulted in Uchiha being blamed, genocided and Sasuke going mad.

I never said that. Had you known how to read, you might have been aware of that. I said he caused the attack, the attack caused the uchiha's to fall from grace, that caused the rebellion and that caused Itachi to murder the clan for Konoha. Sasuke would have hated those details had Tobi told them, which he deliberately did'nt.

Herp Derp

That is the perfect expression for you're level of intelligence.

whos to say that Tobi came out of nothing? what if Tobi was a sample of Madaras dna fused with Hashiramas or something and birthed by inazagi? lol. idk how to explain it but inazagi makes the impoosible, possible. the unimaginable, maginable.

Do i even have to answer this poor excuse for an argument?

inazagi saved Danoz 10 times from death and Tobi from being exploded but Madara cant use it to make a duplicate of himself or somethin?

are you saying its impossible for Tobi to still be Madara even through use of Inazagi? yes or no?

Duh , ofc he can't make a duplicate of himself. No one has done that with Izanagi, its an outlandish proposition that you have made up because you have nowhere else to hide after the last 3 chapters.

never did i say Madara surpased sage or that Madara is GOD or a demi god.

"he did'nt give the correct explanation for the working of the Izanagi jutsu."

oook so why dont you give the correct explanation for the working of Inzagi since you know more than Kishi.

Yes but your arguments suggested this.
Another fail. You don't get tired of making yourself look retarded, do you? I said the jutsu has never done this, not even by its most powerful user, The SO6P. If all he did from izanagi was to separate the 10 tails into 9 tailed beasts, and not create something from thin air, how did Madara make an exact replica of himself out of thin air? Oh and fyi, in Muu's tech, only half the chakra is available to the split body, so Tobi logically should'nt have had the chakra to control the kyuubi if it was a splitting tech.

you misunderstood my point. let me explain and it will be clear.

Sage, Tobi and Danzo has been the only ones to ever use Inazagi so far in the manga.

Madara can use it becasue he has sharingan and wood release. like you said

"anyone with freaking uchiha powers and senju dna can perform Izanagi"

so who is most likely to be Tobi if Tobi can use Inazagi?
Sage?
Danzo?

Again, you make a complete fool of yourself. I don't claim to know, nor do i wish to speculate who Tobi is, i am only proving that he is not Madara.

As its possible that none of those options are correct. It could be the elder son, he can use it and is likely for me but its specualtion but in any case the stupidest speculation is Tobi being Madara.

Muu split himself. half of him is sealed and the other half is still fighting. logically that would mean that not only does the splitting along one to physically split but to split spiritually as well. i will give more support in your other comments.

That would mean he would'nt have enough chakra:

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Muu could'nt do his dust techs he was so weakened by splitting, so how did Tobi manage to do something like controlling the kyuubi, which requires a lot of strength/ chakra? Your arguments are pathetic.

i cannot name a shinobi who has have been ressurected by IWR and been alive at the same time. but i can give reasons why it may be possible.

like i said inazagi makes it possible. i explained why.

Your explanations are invalid. I've already told you why. And its quite telling that you confess being unable to name anyone.

splitting makes it possible. i will explain in the very next quote.

See above, already disproven.

there has been other examples where people and things have been sealed but co existed or died.

Minato appeared in Naruto's conscious. but yet Minato is dead and sealed in Reaper seal. who is this possible? because Minato 1st sealed some of his chakra into Naruto's conscious. than 2nd sealed himself in reaper seal and died.

forget about IWR. we are talking about souls or even consciousnesses co existing in different realms or 2 different places.

No i will not forget about IWR, as there is no tech that allows a part of a soul to be sealed in the impure world yet a person to be ressurrected from the pure world. That is a fallacy and a weak argument on your part.

Orochimaru tried to ressurrect him, yet failed. It was because he was sealed. If only part of his soul was sealed, then that disproves you even further as Oro should have succeeded. Again, congrats on pawning yourself.

you had Minato existing dormant in Narutos mind and sealed in Reaper seal.

next example is you have Kushina who was also sealed in Narutos mind before she died.

now you have Hachibi who is well and alive and sealed in Bee, but he has chakra from his severed tentacled sealed in Gedo Mazo as well.

Again another fail. And also, the reaper death seal, is on Naruto's stomach, so the seal was interlinked with Naruto's conscious from the very start. I've already explained why none of these examples apply: none of these souls, minato, kushnina etc were in the impure world. Naruto's seal or his sub conscious is part of the pure world. Why else did his parents not age a day for 16 years?
The Hachibi just had its chakra sealed/separated, not its soul.

same as Kyuubi being alive and sealed in Naruto but he has HALF his chakra sealed in both Reaper seal and another portion sealed in Gedo Mazo taken from kinggin.

Chakra is different from soul, and it still does'nt explain how a soul can be split half staying in the impure(this) world and the other half in the pure world. That has never happened. There are no examples for it.

now there are characters that prove this is possible

you have Zetsu who can be in 2 places at once. 2 consciousness 2 separate thinking minds 2 personalities but yet you deem it impossible for Madara and Tobi to be the same way?

Muu (explain later)

Its a cloning tech of zetsu, and the manga has'nt said they don't share info like Naruto and his clones or any other clones. You're just making assumptions to fit your theory. And i've disproved Muu.

and even some people beleive that Orochimaru can make a comeback through Kabuto. we know that Oro is sealed thanks to Itachi. but his will still lives in Kabuto. even Kabuto admits that he has to supress Oros cells from taking over. what would happen if Kabuto would lose control? we can strongly suggest that Oro would once again rear his ugly face.
there are many jutsus, characaters and incidences that make Madara and Tobi being the same or at least at one time being 1, possible.

Wishful thinking. Again, you have no idea of the difference between soul, and chakra. Kabuto uses Oro's chakra, as he has said on several occasions. His soul is sealed with itachi. There are no instances that apply to your theory.

btw i know what you are going to say with the Minato example and such. "He sealed his chakra not his soul!"

well true and Minatos chakra and Kushinas chakra still held theri consciousness, knowledge and memories inside of Narutos mind. Tobi claims to be Madara and had knowledge and memories of Madara. it could have been Madara sealed some of his chakra in a body (made by inazagi or hashirama cells or whatever). that may be why Tobi has Madaras knowledge as well why he calls himself Madara.

i know what you'll say to this (see i can do it too) "Kushina and Minato lasted in Naruto for only minutes! how could Tobi lasted for years?!?"

If you know then why are you even giving the argument? Now you've confessed to making up things just to make your theory seem plausible, which it is'nt. More than just chakra, Minato and Kushnina were in the pure world like i just said thats why they did'nt age, Tobi has been alive in the impure world, 2 different planes of existence.

well....

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Tobi (/Madara)- "i was born with the greatest chakra theyd ever seen. my stubborn refusal to die could be considered proof of that"

I'm not talking about time durations, i'm talking about this world and the pure world.

tobi madara here insinuates that his chakra is the result of why he is still alive

Tobi insinuates, not Madara.

bunshin means. " the spirit/mind of stopping the sword".

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and i found it also means "divding and advancing"

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take it as you will.

You really should get help, take some literacy and reading classes, that's what i think. One of your links does'nt work, the other is for bushin, not bunshin, with the 'n'.:
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B u s h in
The word Kabuto used was 'Bunshin', a japaneese word for clone:

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Bunshin. Reapeat after me, B u n s h i n.

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as you can see here in the manga, Muu is "splitting" himself. not using a shadow clone or clone jutsu as you would imply. yes bunshin but if anything bunshin means doppleganger, copy, clone, but doesnt mean Muu is a shadow clone.

With your severely limited literacy skills, i doubt you could comprehend this, but i have already disproved your Muu argument as nonsensical. Try again.

Kabuto- "Muu's technique (jutsu) is not cloning, but splitting.

splitting

1.Break or cause to break forcibly into parts, esp. into halves or along the grain.
2.Remove or be removed by breaking, separating, or dividing

dictionary.com

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Yet the fact remains Tobi would have been severely incapacitated had he split, and would not have had the chakra to control the kyuubi as i showed Muu's split half with Madara could'nt use a single dust element tech.

and not only that but half of Muu is sealed and the other is still fighting.

Muu tried to get the seal off his other half but couldnt.

Naruto- "Gaara sealed him didnt he?"

Onoiki- "he managed to split off a double of himself.."

so another example of a person having part of himself sealed and the other part doing something else.

See above as to why this is invalid.

its possible. look above

You look above.

i hope MS is not your only defense. theres plenty of ninjas who are just as strong as a MS user. being an MS user doesnt automatically make you stronger than most ninjas.

It definitely makes you stronger than the likes of Asuma, Zabuza etc. Itachi, with MS, pwned Asuma, or do i have to link that to you as well..?

that could only activate every 10 years...............



Konan being Tobi? cool theory bro.

Again, you successfully make yourself look stupid. Kotoamatsukami activated once in 10 years, the doryuko, the power that Danzo used to control Mifune, could be activated at will. There's still no denying Shisui and the others were renown ninjas.

anyways all that doesnt change the fact that just because SHisui or Izuna werent summoned doesnt mean they are tobi or mean the ones summoned like zabuza and asuma are lesser ninjas. matter fact kabuto doesnt even have shisui dna to summon him and the same conclusion can be made to anybody else he hasnt summoned-that he just doesnt have their dna. or they are sealed.

It means their souls either are'nt in the pure world, or Kabuto could'nt get their dna. But if he tried hard enough, which he did as he obtained Madara's he would have found theirs too. Nonetheless, my object lies in proving Tobi is not Madara, not who else he is or is not. That starts once this fact is established(which to 90 % of sensible people it already is).

you didnt prove anything..

so according to your opinon there cant be no "crazy ass jutsu" that makes it possible for Tobi Madraa and edo Madara to exist? why not?

wouldnt it be logical for tobi to be madara based on his actoins and knowledge? a crazy ass jutsu that made it possible for him to be madara would serve to keep the logic of everything that Tobi has done. do you disagree?

I proved your argument is practically impossible on the basis of logic, and that Tobi is least likely of all to be Madara as opposed to be anyone else. You on the other hand proved yourself to be a biased fanboy who can't read, has limited to no intellect and a very miniscule ability to focus on what is being said.
Because one's soul is in the pure world, where a soul goes after death, and the other's soul is in the impure world, where a soul can only reside if a person is not dead.
No, it would'nt. And yes , i disagree. Re read all my posts including this one for further details.

you can see Madaras hair.

and besides hes shown himself to Kisame. and Kyuubi recognized him. Itachi says its him. and Minato says Madara is most likely him.

An epic fail. Since you love to humiliate yourself so much, i'll help you.
Kisame:

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He never recognised Madara, he just recognised Tobi, who had earlier claimed he was Madara and Kisame called him Madara because of that. And Kisame's from the mist, he would'nt have known about the leaf's history and what its statues represent, just like i don't know what statue is what in your country. Kisame never recognized the masked man to be Madara, the masked man introduced himself as Madara and Kisame not knowing what the real Madara looks like called this masked imposter Madara simply because of that.
Kyuubi:

Spoiler

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He simply said 'you'....there's no Madara reference/connection anywhere.
Re read my previous posts on why Itachi was deceived and why Minato just had an initial hunch , he never actually believed or cared if it was Madara, proven when he does'nt call him Madara in Naruto's conscience.

why ? who cares? what does that even prove? your trying to argue that Tobi isnt Madara because he wears a mask. weak bro.

Its actually critically important, but then again i would'nt expect you to be capable of comprehending this.

again weak....

who cares? lol.. what difference if he said "his", "him", "your", "our". etc

You semi retarded, mentally handicapped fool. Take reading lessons, seriously you need them . Look at the post you replied to, you did'nt even address what it said.

i cant explain that. Kabuto calls Tobi Madara. this is obviously sarcasm and TObi calls him wise guy... it infers that Tobi is not Madara. but than again its still possible that Tobi may be a dobbleganger Madara as well.

Dream on kid...

actually Tobi MANY times refers to himself as Madara in 1st person. just read ALL the times that Tobi is talking...... and again who cares if hes referring to himself in 3rd person.. what does that prove?!? weak ass arguement.

It proves he is'nt who he claims to be. Do you say, i so and so, shall do this, or i, so and so went there...? No, you don't use your name like that.Your real name, that is.
Give proof from manga. Here's mine:

Spoiler

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yes and Muu can split and have half his soul sealed and the other alongside Madara.

and i said Tobi may be a partially sealed soul or partially sealed chakra. i never said the whole thing.

Partially sealed chakra cannot be a person, and i already disproved as highly unlikely pretty much all of you're arguments.

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You would give a f uck, were you not a mentally challenged child incapable of rational thought.

yet onoiki found it easy to belive that tobi was amdara and now he cant imagine anyone esle to be tobi.

also you are assuming that they should have had some suspicion and know about a jutsu that allows tobi to stilll be madara.

Wtf are you babbling about? Onoki just accepted what he was told:

Spoiler

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He says ' my name is uchiha madara' Onoki makes no claim either confirming or denying this. So its illogical to say Onoki recognized his voice, no he did'nt. Tobi said he was Madara, Onoki just believed him and took him at his word, just like Kisame had.

lol word play like "our" instead of "me" or whatever means absolutely nothing to me.. it proves nothing. it disproves nothing.

It infers that tobi being Madara is less likely.

if you were wondering everything in red is you just flamming and raging lol i found it funny.

you started out ok. but than started raging .. idk why. whatever though. i expected much better from you out of everyone on this site. i considered you to be part of the sensible group..

but to each their own opinions man.

btw this was hella long.. try to keep it short next time. oh wait you said your not responding no more

Yeah well i changed my mind about not responding, and the flames are because you're being both biased and ignoring rationality in your theory.

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

Oh my freakin gosh!!!!! I love how this thread was dead and all the way in the 3rd page but you cyborg had to revive it and write a wall of nothing important!!

I was satisfied with gettig my point across to people who got the point and happy this was dead but y cyborg?! Y?!

Just to flame some more?! Didnt you say that you wasnt going to make any comments after ya last wall of flames?!

I didnt read ya wall, am not going to and even if i do i wont respond. Like i said im done repeating myself. My simple point was tobi being madara is still possible. Its a possibility. And no one but madara would be a more possible and logical based on tobis knowledge, experience actions and witnesses.

You have not understood the point nor have you refuted my basic points that tobi had knowledge only madara would have, tobi was able to do things that only madara did and that many characters witnessed that tobi is or most likely is madara.

Nor did you refute inazagi, splitting or any other sealing or possible jutsu being the reason tobi madara and edo madara co exist

So on that note i am done.

 

[Cyborg]

Oh my freakin gosh!!!!! I love how this thread was dead and all the way in the 3rd page but you cyborg had to revive it and write a wall of nothing important!!

I was satisfied with gettig my point across to people who got the point and happy this was dead but y cyborg?! Y?!

Just to flame some more?! Didnt you say that you wasnt going to make any comments after ya last wall of flames?!

I didnt read ya wall, am not going to and even if i do i wont respond. Like i said im done repeating myself. My simple point was tobi being madara is still possible. Its a possibility. And no one but madara would be a more possible and logical based on tobis knowledge, experience actions and witnesses.

You have not understood the point nor have you refuted my basic points that tobi had knowledge only madara would have, tobi was able to do things that only madara did and that many characters witnessed that tobi is or most likely is madara.

So on that note i am done.

I merely did what i'm sure you had expected when you replied to my post. And i have thoroughly refuted every one of your points as being outlandish and next to impossible. And i did'nt respond earlier because i did'nt have time. Tobi being Madara is the least likely of all scenarios and i have proven this. You don't seem to get this simple fact through your cranium for some reason.

I believed Tobi was Madara before the last 3 chapters same as you but unlike yourself, i'm not a die hard fanboy of anything who can't change his views because of his bias and you're percieved humiliation at being proven wrong. You listen to neither reason nor facts.

W/e, it would have been a pain responding to your response anyway, seeing as how you have a habit of ignoring 70-80% of what the other person is saying.

 

[Tablet]

Brolii

 

[PositiveEmotions]

yo cyborg thx for the rep

 

[Hawker]

I merely did what i'm sure you had expected when you replied to my post. And i have thoroughly refuted every one of your points as being outlandish and next to impossible. And i did'nt respond earlier because i did'nt have time. Tobi being Madara is the least likely of all scenarios and i have proven this. You don't seem to get this simple fact through your cranium for some reason.

You haven't proved anything. Just spilled out some points which you base on the saying "why would he do that", "that doesn't make any sense" or "that's POSSIBLE 'cause.." etc..It's still speculation so why confusing it to proving something wrong? You get it? For example the Kyuubi controlling thing. We do not know anyone as powerful as Madara or Hashirama who has controlled Kyuubi against Kyuubis own will. Naruto hasn't done it like that. Danzo hasn't done it at all so what do you have? SPECULATION. We go for now what we have and the thing is, Madara is the best possibility for someone to control Kyuubi as been suggested that Tobi is Madara.

Fine. Then how is it that Madara, being an Uchiha and a master at sharingan and who possessed EMS, was able to awaken rinnegan while Tobi has not and has'nt even shown to have MS and yet he had the rinnegan to give to Nagato? Why?No really, tell me, why? Where did he come across it? Santa Clause?

You're doing it again. Tell me what's the point of that reply?`You are not proving anything in here. Same as I saying, who is Tobi if not Madara? Santa Clause? There are countless possibilites why Tobi hasn't or couldn't use it but they are possibilities to how he got it and why gave it to Nagato, and one of them is that him being a former shell of himself it's impossible for him to use it, so he gave it to Nagato and used him. That's a possibility, and should I know say I pwned you 'cause I do the same thing you do when you're telling us your points.

Btw. have you seen that Madara in the last 3 chapters has always hair covering his right eye, and following that, Tobi's right (only that!) has always been visible. Possible connection here? YES, but I don't go as far as being a super noob like you and say I pwned you with something like a possibility.

I believed Tobi was Madara before the last 3 chapters same as you but unlike yourself, i'm not a die hard fanboy of anything who can't change his views because of his bias and you're percieved humiliation at being proven wrong. You listen to neither reason nor facts.

You are contradicting yourself. By saying this everything that happened before those last 3 mangachapters that you used as "proof" loses it's value and credibility. As the holder of those arguments you have ignored them before, why shouldn't we now? According to this reply you should only use arguments that are tied to the last three chapters.

W/e, it would have been a pain responding to your response anyway, seeing as how you have a habit of ignoring 70-80% of what the other person is saying.

You do the same. You just respond to every point he or I have made by somehow trying to show that only the POSSIBILITY that you believe in is right. Thus ignoring what we have said. As we have same kind of points. But all of that is speculation and you really can't prove us wrong by showing us that some possibilities exist. But neither can't we prove you wrong. All we can say it's a possibility, in this case a stronger than what you suggest. And despite all the "evidence" based on mangachapters before last three chapters that you are using now, you too believed it to be a stronger possibility before.

Conclusion: you are not pwning anyone, this is a cartoon.

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

Cyborg i rEad your wall of flame. Thats all it was just unneccessary insults. It was disgusting really. First time i ever read a wall and was just disgusted.

Ill admit that i dont treat everyone on this site with respect but the ones i do is cuz they deserve it. They have an amount of credibility with me and on the top of my mind ppl like hawker, dave chappelle, draegod, eyesofthekyuubi. You and EMR used to be but you guys are officially om the shit list.

I like to debate opinions but this wasmt a debate. It was unneccessary disrespect. And your arrogance led you to believe that i am not basing my points on the manga which i have consistantly, that i cant read which obviously i can and do, that i am wishful thinkong and making assumptions when in fact that is you who does this and i just bring up possibilities and examples not assumptions.

Also the seal on narutos belly was the eight tetragram not the reaper seal. In some translation it has been translated as the elephant seal but this was the improper translation. Now i didnt even look up the mangas for this info. I knew it from the top of my brain. If i was u i would now write inapropriate insults and suggest that you reread the manga with help or something than insult your intelligence. But i wont. I dont call someone stupid unless i know they are and i know you arent. I call ot how it is what what you really are is arrogant and ignorant of the fact.

Based on the fact i even remembered this detail and you didnt i guess mt reading skills are a little bit better than yours huh?

Only thing you was right about was my mistake on bushin and bunshin.

Anyways i at least can admit when i am wrong and will be the first to agree on a good point. I have done so, you made only a few but everything else is just shit. You are full of shit trying to parade that your "pwning me" and have better intellect than me. Yea sure kid.

Anyways why dont you make a thread with evidence from the manga guessing who tobi could be and hit me up when you get 100+ of +reps and o er 10 ppl thanking your thread. Than talk to me.

 

[Cyborg]

You haven't proved anything. Just spilled out some points which you base on the saying "why would he do that", "that doesn't make any sense" or "that's POSSIBLE 'cause.." etc..It's still speculation so why confusing it to proving something wrong? You get it? For example the Kyuubi controlling thing. We do not know anyone as powerful as Madara or Hashirama who has controlled Kyuubi against Kyuubis own will. Naruto hasn't done it like that. Danzo hasn't done it at all so what do you have? SPECULATION. We go for now what we have and the thing is, Madara is the best possibility for someone to control Kyuubi as been suggested that Tobi is Madara.

Well my speculation has more probability of being correct than yours.

You are contradicting yourself. By saying this everything that happened before those last 3 mangachapters that you used as "proof" loses it's value and credibility. As the holder of those arguments you have ignored them before, why shouldn't we now? According to this reply you should only use arguments that are tied to the last three chapters.

Actually, no. I view the previous manga in light of the last 3 chapters to explain why it fits that Tobi is not Madara. And those arguments are adjusted in the face of the recent facts as presented in the manga.

You do the same. You just respond to every point he or I have made by somehow trying to show that the POSSIBILITY that you believe in is right. Thus ignoring what we have said. But all of that is speculation and you really can't prove us wrong by showing us that some possibilities exist.

Conclusion: you are not pwning anyone, this is a cartoon.

Of course you'd say that, seeing as how you were on the receiving end...

And why do you keep butting in to posts i address to him? Are you his lil side kick? And you said you don't like brown nosing? You've done nothing but this throughout the thread. That, or you're an alt....

 

[Hawker]

Well my speculation has more probability of being correct than yours.

Again with this. Even with the example that I used and you quoted with that reply you still say that. There isn't anyone more probable to control Kyuubi than Madara.

Actually, no. I view the previous manga in light of the last 3 chapters to explain why it fits that Tobi is not Madara. And those arguments are adjusted in the face of the recent facts as presented in the manga.

in the light of the new chapters or not. You still have ignored them before and you can't single them out like that now and use them as evidence, 'cause really something like the witness part that you use hasn't changed after the three new chapters. Minato's, Itachi's and Kisame's insight is the same after those chapters and it hasn't changed and there weren't any flashback so yes you are contradicting yourself..

Of course you'd say that, seeing as how you were on the receiving end...


And why do you keep butting in to posts i address to him? Are you his lil side kick? And you said you don't like brown nosing? You've done nothing but this throughout the thread. That, or you're an alt....

I just get annoyed as you say you are pwning someone who doesn't believe in your theory, aka that means me too. And that you haven't done.

But answer this to me: do you say that it's not with 100% certainty possible that Tobi is Madara? I'd really like to know are you that sure of yourself? 'Cause if you say no then you do believe that our theory is a possibility too.

If yes, then it's gonna be funny if/when Tobi is to be reaveled to be Madara.

 

[Cyborg]

Cyborg i rEad your wall of flame. Thats all it was just unneccessary insults. It was disgusting really. First time i ever read a wall and was just disgusted.

Ill admit that i dont treat everyone on this site with respect but the ones i do is cuz they deserve it. They have an amount of credibility with me and on the top of my mind ppl like hawker, dave chappelle, draegod, eyesofthekyuubi. You and EMR used to be but you guys are officially om the shit list.

I like to debate opinions but this wasmt a debate. It was unneccessary disrespect. And your arrogance led you to believe that i am not basing my points on the manga which i have consistantly, that i cant read which obviously i can and do, that i am wishful thinkong and making assumptions when in fact that is you who does this and i just bring up possibilities and examples not assumptions.

Also the seal on narutos belly was the eight tetragram not the reaper seal. In some translation it has been translated as the elephant seal but this was the improper translation.

Only thing you was right about was my mistake on bushin and bunshin.

Anyways i at least can admit when i am wrong and will be the first to agree on a good point. I have done so, you made only a few but everything else is just shit. You are full of shit trying to parade that your "pwning me" and have better intellect than me. Yea sure kid.

Anyways why dont you make a thread with evidence from the manga guessing who tobi could be and hit me up when you get 100+ of +reps and o er 10 ppl thanking your thread. Than talk to me.

Not Tobi threads, but:

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They're plenty of thanks there, you should know, oh wait right you were banned, sorry my bad.
And look at your post count. Its more than mine yet i have more bars than you, not that it really matters but since you bring it up..
And my post is not just flames, its solid facts, using the manga instead of random speculation . And i say you have low intellect, because that's how you respond.

 

[NarutoVsGoku]

You haven't proved anything. Just spilled out some points which you base on the saying "why would he do that", "that doesn't make any sense" or "that's POSSIBLE 'cause.." etc..It's still speculation so why confusing it to proving something wrong? You get it? For example the Kyuubi controlling thing. We do not know anyone as powerful as Madara or Hashirama who has controlled Kyuubi against Kyuubis own will. Naruto hasn't done it like that. Danzo hasn't done it at all so what do you have? SPECULATION. We go for now what we have and the thing is, Madara is the best possibility for someone to control Kyuubi as been suggested that Tobi is Madara.




You're doing it again. Tell me what's the point of that reply?`You are not proving anything in here. Same as I saying, who is Tobi if not Madara? Santa Clause? There are countless possibilites why Tobi hasn't or couldn't use it but they are possibilities to how he got it and why gave it to Nagato, and one of them is that him being a former shell of himself it's impossible for him to use it, so he gave it to Nagato and used him. That's a possibility, and should I know say I pwned you 'cause I do the same thing you do when you're telling us your points.

Btw. have you seen that Madara in the last 3 chapters has always hair covering his right eye, and following that, Tobi's right (only that!) has always been visible. Possible connection here? YES, but I don't go as far as being a super noob like you and say I pwned you with something like a possibility.


You are contradicting yourself. By saying this everything that happened before those last 3 mangachapters that you used as "proof" loses it's value and credibility. As the holder of those arguments you have ignored them before, why shouldn't we now? According to this reply you should only use arguments that are tied to the last three chapters.




You do the same. You just respond to every point he or I have made by somehow trying to show that only the POSSIBILITY that you believe in is right. Thus ignoring what we have said. As we have same kind of points. But all of that is speculation and you really can't prove us wrong by showing us that some possibilities exist. But neither can't we prove you wrong. All we can say it's a possibility, in this case a stronger than what you suggest. And despite all the "evidence" based on mangachapters before last three chapters that you are using now, you too believed it to be a stronger possibility before.

Conclusion: you are not pwning anyone, this is a cartoon.

Thank you hawker!!!!!!!!! I couldnt have said it better!

He brings up possibilities without proof and says were the ones making assumptions!!

I told the kid that madara was the only one to have been able to control kyuubi during the second attack and he brings up danzo. I ask him did danzo have sharingans and hashirama cells and he ignores the question and brings up the possibility of other uchihas. More possibilities. But he forgets or doesnt realize that iyachi said that madara was the only one to have ever control kyuubi with his eyes. And kyuubi never mentioned anyone but madara controlling him.

But he ignores this. And he ignores kyuubi saying "you" bringing up possibilites of some other uchiha but he refuses to give an example of who. If you dont give examples than you are just talking out of your ass. But yet we are the ones making assumptions here and wishful thinking?!

Lmaoo

He thought minato used reaper seal to seal kyuubi in naruto!

And im the one who cant read huh.

Wow. My thread is a fail but it got 100 +reps even from cyborg who is now flamming it! Wow

 

[Cyborg]

I just get annoyed as you say you are pwning someone who doesn't believe in your theory, aka that means me too. And that you haven't done.

But answer this to me: do you say that it's not with 100% certainty possible that Tobi is Madara? I'd really like to know are you that sure of yourself? 'Cause if you say no then you do believe that our theory is a possibility too.

If yes, then it's gonna be funny if/when Tobi is to be reaveled to be Madara.

If we go by what the manga has shown, i'm 100% sure its not Madara. If kishi still shows it to be Madara he's a troll lol. So based off facts and evidence from manga(there's really no point of this forum if we don't use those) Tobi is not Madara.