Lmao I literally posted facts from the manga of Sasuke, Zabuza and the Manga it self showing he never took them serious enough to kill ever!! Yet you think he was going all out??? Then you think he switched weapons as if he doesn't always fight with senbons.lol Really?
You can choose to believe what ever you want, manga facts show he never went all out, otherwise they would be dead!!! In the war when he was blood lust why didnt "he use his Ultimate tech". Really??? Just because you see Sharingan doesnt mean kakshi goes all out (even though in part one that was his win condition). just because Oru used Edo tensei on Hiruzen (his best tech arguably) doesn't mean he went all out! Just because Kabuto summons Edo madara doesnt mean he went all out (Still had DSM). Just because Kurama uses TBB starndard his best move doesn't mean he went all out. Do you not here yourself??? Seriously???????????
Serious Haku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Soft nice Haku based on manga facts it's not even close! He matched Demon mode Zabuza in speed, Reacted to War arc Lee and Gai, Moved faster then 3 TOMOE WAR ARC KAKASHI (HIS STRONGEST VERSION) yet he "went all out when the manga shows and states otherwise...... I'm done! If the manga doesn't work then i'm wasting my time!
- I made reference to the weapon he used solely based in what Kakahshi said which could be a reason for him not going all out
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So let's conclude...KN0 Naruto faster than Lee/Gai despite these moving at the same speed to hit Haku which shows they both have the same speed according to you? Ok.
All I know is then: Genin Sasuke>>Haku . Period...No debunking that after seeing his 3T feats against the same Kn0 Naruto who's faster than Gai and Lee at full Base speed according to you. I'm wasting my time as well if you're going to sit here and tell me he's superior to part 1 Sasuke.
Everything he said was been shitted on before he even showed up Haku himself admitted it would be dangerous to attack 1 tomoe Sasuke head on and just admitted he's not match for this boy (Naruto)
So this Haku serious or not serious nonsense needs to be thrown out the window.
-Horrendous counter. They were all standing on the top panel motionlessly while Naruto was running. They all ran by the second panel, but where nowhere near Naruto. I have absolutely NO IDEA how you can sit here telling me Kiba and Naruto showed equal speed when we don't see where Kiba even started from. Makes no sense for you to tell me they showed equal speed when we only see Kiba next to Naruto after Naruto was done, but never saw Kiba's starting location. Not that any of this matters, because this was KCM Naruto's running speed whether you like it or not. KCM Naruto's running speed~Onoki's flight
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. Stop giving your fan-fic feats to S4 and start giving me reaction feats. This isn't the first time I ask so I'm going to assume you concede that they have no sufficient reaction feats if you fail to supply them again.
- Kiba was to Naruto's right as shown in that scan when they all got there....Nartuo was the closest to Obito and where was Kiba if he was to Naruto's right considering this was where Naruto started running from
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, Top right
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Nowhere. So it's safe to say he wasn't in front or around Naruto . That wasn't Naruto's full speed.
There we go with the bold.. So we have the fact that:
- Gaara implied his sand was faster than Onoki
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- Onoki was moving at the same pace with Deidara
Though by your logic, Gaara=Onoki=KCM Naruto's running speed. Because they were running in the same line doesn't mean they have equal speed. Unless you think Gaara running speed =Kakashi = Mifune
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or unless you think BSM Nartuo = Kyuubi cloaked Lee >> Kyuubi cloaked Gai who was behind them
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Stop giving me your ridiculous logic and give me actual feats of Konan being able to blitz any individual form 20M. No one is conceding here...We only have you making silly things that make 0 sense.
-Huh? Naruto was closer then the papers are. You don't seem to realise they were attached to his back and the ONLY ones that were behind him were these [
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]. Don't mention the ones shown later because these were the ONLY ones present at this time. And anyways, stop forgetting Konan as to react to Obito's Kamui before she can attach her papers to him.
Then explain how some Paper bombs managed to get there before others? I love how you desperately use this bad feat as proof. Purely because Kishi didn't draw or rather show every single paper in that lake for us to know he was surrounded by close paper bombs. Especially when I've show how close some were to his face. Pitiful feat but yeah one has to go through this to believe that paper bombs would supposedly blitz opponents from 20M despite it having to be brought out. Despite the prep and all.
And? Base Jiraiya is portrayed on Itachi's tier. Thus they are relatively equal. Itachi kept up with KCM Naruto's movement speed just fine. Not sure why it's far-fetched for Jiraiya to be able to do that feat given those papers were fired from about 15 meters instead of a meter. And they weren't guided. So Jiraiya reacting and dodging is rather within the realms of his potential, not sure why everyone always mentions this as if it's supposed to be some kind of hard counter. Saying Jiraiya gets blitzed from 15 meters by KCM's running speed is far fetched. Saying Sound 4 get blitzed by KCM Naruto's running speed is not, because they are part 1 fodder who'd get blitzed by Base Lee w/ no weights (except Kimimaro and maybe Kidomaru). And Base Lee is definitely not even close to KCM Naruto's running speed.
Says who with the bold? "portrayed" is a bad argument to defend your post when that's not even the case. If Jiraiya was that fast enough to react or so to something supposedly faster than KCM Naruto, I'm not sure why he'll end up having a massive mark in his chest given to him by a much weaker and slower version of Naruto in KN4. Not to mention Jiraiya is portrayed to be around Orochimaru's speed considering I have better evidence given their DB scores being the same and rivalry....While you have none except, well "portrayed to be on Itachi" based on nothing despite Itachi having a 5.
Jiriaya while training Naruto in his 4th tail form got a massive scar in his chest
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from obviously his hand marks and I can draw the fact that Jiriaya who has around the same speed as Orochimaru(Both having a 4.5 in speed while Itachi has a 5)...Orochimaru on the other hand got blitz by a much slower KN3 Naruto
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. Unless you have something suggesting that Base Jiriaya is really around the same speed as Itachi.....Not hearing. Not sure why Kishi didn't give him a 5 if truly he was.
Till you give me a fine reason to why Base Jiriaya can react to KCM Naruto, you have no point. What even kills your post the more is how Jiraiya in a fodder body can react to Konan's body from this close
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. Now what you're overall telling me is that Jiraiya can not only react to KCM Naruto but something faster? Smh.
-I suggest you re-read the S4 chapters. It took Tayuya ages to pull out her Flute from her pocket lmfao. Anyways, it won't work on Konan's body and I don't know why you're acting like it takes time for Konan to enter paper mode when she does it instantly
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. And again, someone who pressured Obito can't do that before a part 1 girl can do anything? Interesting logic.
Lmao so just bringing it out from behind her yeah?
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. You just conceded and now you bring up a new argument as usual in regards to why Genjutsu won't work.
She enters her paper mode which requires the use of chakra and then she puts chakra in her paper to fire it off according to the DB. That's not as fast as pulling out a flute...She even uses a hand seal sometimes which indicates the fact that she has to manipulate chakra for this
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. In the part, same thing happened when you look at the middle panel which shows after she goes in this form, her paper start coming off as you can see the SFX for the middle panel "flap flap"
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which she then uses to attack after puting chakra in them
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. Konan always uses the paper from her body to attack.
Stop saying she pressured Obito
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..Not that that automatically gives her feat of being able to do all these despite there being 4 or 5 members to distract and intercept her. Once again, bad logic.
-In the same way Ay's Raiton shroud turned off from Genjutsu, Susano turned off. Those are different from Konan's Dance of the Shinigami which changes her body into paper. In the same way Shikamaru can use chakra to manipulate his shadow whilst in the Genjutsu (chakra is used for it based on Boruto movie) Konan can manipulate her papers. But you're right, Susano doesn't require any bodily movement and Ay's shroud doesn't either. So it might be up to the reader, unless you have some suggestion. BTW in case you don't comprehend what's being said in the DB, being endowed with physical strength means the shadow has physical strength rofl. It's not being endowed with the user's physical energy or anything like that, as that's not stated.
What you're telling me is Susanoo and the shroud don't require bodily movement which is manga facts but then you state Konan's paper is different and won't be affected with 0 proof?
Not to mention the things that have been able to function under that Flute Genjutsu are:
- Genjutsu (Itachi/Sasuke)
- Shadow possession
Genjutsu is Yin release ..Read the middle panel
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and Shadow possession is Yin release given Shikamru is a Yin release user and so are his techniques based on the databook 4. Plus he stated Tayuya is like him given the mechanics of her techniques considering one was starving for physical energy as it was composed of just mental energy
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and they both create specialize chakra
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...Konan doesn't fall here so once again, you have 0 proof as to why.
-Doesn't work that way buddy. By that logic I could also say where's your proof Dance of Shinigami works like Susano or Raiton shroud? None. But if anything, it's far more similar to something which has little need for chakra control and amount - Shadows. While Susano and v1/v2 shroud require continuous large amounts of chakra and for that chakra to be controlled ie Susano has a form that needs to be maintained via chakra control, paper form is just her attaching chakra to papers and then controlling the papers with her mind. Similarly to Gaara's sand. There's no chakra control necessity that needs to be maintained, as long as chakra is present on the medium it can be moved around with the mind. But I'm not about to argue that, I'm simply showing you that your logic is flawed since you can interpret it both ways.
If you have this much trouble comprehending Konan's paper speed then there's no point in continuing. Always wonder why I choose to reply to your posts time and time again. :lol
If you have this much trouble comprehending Konan's paper speed then there's no point in continuing. Always wonder why I choose to reply to your posts time and time again. :lol
- Konan's paper>>KCM Narutos speed=Gaara's chakra infused sand=Onoki. You believe KCM Naruto's was at full speed against Obito hence why this paper feat is such a glorious one despite there being multiple reasons debunked. You believe these 3 are equal in speed because they were running in the same line despite there being numerous examples. I debunked that showing you that he was surrounded with multiple paper already.
- Konan uses paper and she doesn't need bodily movements so for that reason, she'll still function under Tayuya's Genjutsu. Despite Susanoo and Ay's Raiton not requiring bodily movements but still not being able to function. Again, I dealt with this nonsense.
- Konan would activate her Shikigami, release paper from her body after putting chakra into them and then blitz Tayuya from 20M in order to prevent her from removing a flute from her back pocket despite having 5 teammates on the battlefield?
- But Base Jiraiya reacted to that paper attack twice...One when he was in a fodder from upclose. Apex reason: Base Jiraiya was portrayed to be same category of speed as Itachi who kept up with KCM. Even though the author himself never indicated such and made things worse by giving Jman a 4.5 category like his counterpart Orochimaru who got blitzed by 1?2? or 3 tailed Naruto? Or rather we can think for ourselves and use common knowledge in regards to how Jman got a massive scar to his chest by that KN4 Naruto if he was that fast? Go get me feats.
And Apex, I don't need replies from retards. Period...My last post closed this topic.
The Genjutsu Tayuya uses immobilises the body and restrains her opponent's movements [
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]. Konan isn't moving a body, she's moving papers that constitute her body with her mind. To answer your question tho:
Konan can still generate papers outside of paper form dude. She created the paper chakram vs Obito outside of paper form, here all she'd need to do is create one paper and have it cut the tip of her finger off. Once she's in paper form that pain subsides and she'll have it back. People just don't want to accept that S4 are part 1 and are completely lacking compared to people who can fight on level with Obito.
- Konan's paper>>KCM Narutos speed=Gaara's chakra infused sand=Onoki. You believe KCM Naruto's was at full speed against Obito hence why this paper feat is such a glorious one despite there being multiple reasons debunked. You believe these 3 are equal in speed because they were running in the same line despite there being numerous examples. I debunked that showing you that he was surrounded with multiple paper already.
- Konan uses paper and she doesn't need bodily movements so for that reason, she'll still function under Tayuya's Genjutsu. Despite Susanoo and Ay's Raiton not requiring bodily movements but still not being able to function. Again, I dealt with this nonsense.
- Konan would activate her Shikigami, release paper from her body after putting chakra into them and then blitz Tayuya from 20M in order to prevent her from removing a flute from her back pocket despite having 5 teammates on the battlefield?
- But Base Jiraiya reacted to that paper attack twice...One when he was in a fodder from upclose. Apex reason: Base Jiraiya was portrayed to be same category of speed as Itachi who kept up with KCM. Even though the author himself never indicated such and made things worse by giving Jman a 4.5 category like his counterpart Orochimaru who got blitzed by 1?2? or 3 tailed Naruto? Or rather we can think for ourselves and use common knowledge in regards to how Jman got a massive scar to his chest by that KN4 Naruto if he was that fast? Go get me feats.
And Apex, I don't need replies from retards. Period...My last post closed this topic.
This guy's here telling me Naruto was running at 80% speed trying to tag Obito in a War. And anyways, as I thought, you'd fail to provide S4 reaction/speed feats to debunk a single thing I have stated. Bringing up those DB stats shows how ignorant you really are since it doesn't take into account reaction speed, agility, reflexes, etc. Keep up that special needs logic, and I expect another wallie to be written with your salty insults.
how u mean. Not only is she jounin lvl but also has part 2 power gap going for her. neji was one of the fastest person in that arc and even kurenai makes him look like a snail.
The Genjutsu Tayuya uses immobilises the body and restrains her opponent's movements [
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]. Konan isn't moving a body, she's moving papers that constitute her body with her mind. To answer your question tho:
Konan can still generate papers outside of paper form dude. She created the paper chakram vs Obito outside of paper form, here all she'd need to do is create one paper and have it cut the tip of her finger off. Once she's in paper form that pain subsides and she'll have it back. People just don't want to accept that S4 are part 1 and are completely lacking compared to people who can fight on level with Obito.
I agree with bold. I never disagreed. But she needs to cause physical pain. To be able to control the paper from her body she needs to be in paper form. If she's in paper form she won't feel pain.
I agree with bold. I never disagreed. But she needs to cause physical pain. To be able to control the paper from her body she needs to be in paper form. If she's in paper form she won't feel pain.
Nah dude. She created a bouquet of paper flowers while the 2 bodies were still floating due to the paper carrying them [
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]. She needs her hands to produce paper outside of paper form but once the paper is produced she can manipulate it freely. Once she's in genjutsu as long as her hand is present and existent she can just create papers around her hand, she doesn't need to move it for the papers to be generated. Then the papers cut her.
Nah dude. She created a bouquet of paper flowers while the 2 bodies were still floating due to the paper carrying them [
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]. She needs her hands to produce paper outside of paper form but once the paper is produced she can manipulate it freely. Once she's in genjutsu as long as her hand is present and existent she can just create papers around her hand, she doesn't need to move it for the papers to be generated. Then the papers cut her.
The Genjutsu Tayuya uses immobilises the body and restrains her opponent's movements [
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]. Konan isn't moving a body, she's moving papers that constitute her body with her mind. To answer your question tho:
Konan can still generate papers outside of paper form dude. She created the paper chakram vs Obito outside of paper form, here all she'd need to do is create one paper and have it cut the tip of her finger off. Once she's in paper form that pain subsides and she'll have it back. People just don't want to accept that S4 are part 1 and are completely lacking compared to people who can fight on level with Obito.
This guy's here telling me Naruto was running at 80% speed trying to tag Obito in a War. And anyways, as I thought, you'd fail to provide S4 reaction/speed feats to debunk a single thing I have stated. Bringing up those DB stats shows how ignorant you really are since it doesn't take into account reaction speed, agility, reflexes, etc. Keep up that special needs logic, and I expect another wallie to be written with your salty insults.
Coming from a dude who also think weight alters air pressure? Really quit replying to me like you said as it gets worse for you.
Yeah and why don't we tell them where DB scores came from? You stated something extremely baseless..."Base Jiraiya being in the same category as Itachi in terms of speed". When? How? I also stated Orochimaru is a more reasonable comparison in terms of speed even DB actually gives him and Jiraiaya a 4.5 in speed while Itachi has a 5. So my comparison makes more sense given their rivalry backed up with the fact that if you were correct regarding this "category", the author would have given him a 5 to further support your nonsensical claim based on nothing except, well it's Jman. Pitiful. Orochimaru on the other hand who's a better comparison got blitz by 3Tailed Naruto and we can also think about the fact that Jman stated he had a scar on his chest caused by KN4 Naruto which shouldn't occur if he had the speed to dodge something faster than KCM Naruto's running speed. The fact that Oro who's around his speed got blitzi by 3 tailed(or even 2tailed) Naruto is further support of this considering Base Jman isn't much faster than Oro but somehow has the speed to dodge something faster than KCM Naruto's running speed twice from even up close?
I expect another retarded reply and while you're at it, please counter my Yin element counter being a major factor against Tayuya's Genjutsu. If not, don't bother with your nonsensical claims as I can't deal with your speculation. Telling me Konan's is so fast that she would transform to her her state and release paper after putting chakra in them so fast from 20M before Tayua's can pull out a flute despite:
- Kimmimaro
- Kidomaru
- Jirobo
- Sakon/Ukon
All present in the battlefield to intercept her attacks for Tayuya to just pull out a flute. When did this nonsensical Konan wank start people ? Faster than KCM Naruto's running speed despite Base Jman being able to dodge it? Seriously?
What?? Let's step back here, we agreed that;
1. "Konan can still generate papers outside of paper form"
2. We logically agree that there's 2 potential outcomes once Genjutsu happens, she either stays in paper form but is in Genjutsu or her paper form deactivates.
3. If her paper form deactivates, then we go back to 1 and agree she can generate papers outside of her paper form. I showed you scans of her using papers outside of paper form and she maintained Deva's flight while surrounded in paper without her hands. So she can manipulate her papers outside of paper form as well, and since we already agree she can generate paper outside of paper form, I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. She doesn't need to be in her paper form to control papers
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as I already showed you, the bodies were maintaining flight without her doing anything
What?? Let's step back here, we agreed that;
1. "Konan can still generate papers outside of paper form"
2. We logically agree that there's 2 potential outcomes once Genjutsu happens, she either stays in paper form but is in Genjutsu or her paper form deactivates.
3. If her paper form deactivates, then we go back to 1 and agree she can generate papers outside of her paper form. I showed you scans of her using papers outside of paper form and she maintained Deva's flight while surrounded in paper without her hands. So she can manipulate her papers outside of paper form as well, and since we already agree she can generate paper outside of paper form, I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. She doesn't need to be in her paper form to control papers
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as I already showed you, the bodies were maintaining flight without her doing anything
Bruh. We see Yahiko's corpse being lifted from foot to head
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as per the shadow compared to the other shadow and using your eyes. His feet have been elevated but his head is still on the rock. And she's just now surrounding him in paper, and we can clearly tell she isn't in her paper form while doing this.
Bruh. We see Yahiko's corpse being lifted from foot to head
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as per the shadow compared to the other shadow and using your eyes. His feet have been elevated but his head is still on the rock. And she's just now surrounding him in paper, and we can clearly tell she isn't in her paper form while doing this.
Bruh. Her paper form is her made up of paper. It doesn't have to be partial, like after her explosion with Obito. You can tell when she's in her paper form and is about to separate like
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But if she wasn't about to separate how could you tell?
Bruh. Her paper form is her made up of paper. It doesn't have to be partial, like after her explosion with Obito. You can tell when she's in her paper form and is about to separate like
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But if she wasn't about to separate how could you tell?
That's how she always looks in paper form bro. Give me a scan where she's ever been in paper form but looked completely normal. She always has half a torso missing, peeling, etc. She turns into paper form at this panel and at this panel we see her face is already peeling naturally
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even though she's not force peeling it or trying to separate as you are suggesting. We see it again after
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and it's still in peeled form, always has been like this. Her body is always peeling in SOME way. And anyways, when she uses papers in her paper form they branch from her own body and arm. There she's just creating paper. She always uses the paper from her own body
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[
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]. Yet in the scan I linked you of her enclosing papers on Yahiko, her hand and body are perfectly intact. In all scans before and after that we see her NOT peeling, so I don't know how you can imply she's in paper form with no evidence at all.
