Konan v Sound 4

[Apêx1]

Loool...? How she can survive long enough? Despite having her teammates around? 4-5 members? Not sure if serious.

Because Konan's paper is faster then KCM Naruto's running speed. Her paper can easily blitz them without reaction given their lack of reaction speed feats.

 

[Haizaki]

Anyone saying Konan loses to the Sound 4 are delusional. The sound 4 was easily beaten by Kimmimaro. Unless you think Kimmimaro is stronger than Konan then you have no arguement. Konan most likely beats the Sound 5 as well as the sound 4 are dead weight who almost lost to two Chunnins. Sound 4 were defeated by Neji, Choji, Shikamaru/Temari, and Kiba/Kankuro. This really shouldn't be a debate and people should smartin up.

Never ever say stupid stuff.

Now I'm going to ask you to pull out a scan of Kimmi soloing the sound 4...When and where was it said? Fan fiction. Search the entire Manga and I'll wait. Pretty sure that never occurred.

Is Kimmimaro individually stronger than Konan?

Who cares? Matchups are different. Besides, Kabuto resorted to their abilities one by one against the Uchiha brothers at a point and it proved troublesome...Imagine them pulling all at the same time against one individual weaker than those 2. Your logic makes 0 sense and if I was to stick by it, we'll have a lot of contradictions I'm sure. Those abilities aren't fodder.

Because Konan's paper is faster then KCM Naruto's running speed. Her paper can easily blitz them without reaction given their lack of reaction speed feats.

Says who? Lemme guess you're going to pull out a scan of Obito warping himself or so? Anyways I can't wait to see it.

Which reaction feats? Since when did Konan have superior feats that suggest she'll blitz these people with no reactions. Not to mention she has to go in her paper state and then start using these attacks after putting chakra into them but Tayuya won;t be able to pull out her flute despite having 4-5 member there with here who can intercept attacks coming at her. Telling me these people can't intercept her attacks that she has to prepare before Tayuya pull out something from 20m? Not a chance.

 

[Curse Mark]

Is Kimmimaro individually stronger than Konan?

Your ABC logic has no place here.

 

[neosmith500]

Sound4 wins this rangin from mid-ext high diff.
Their jutsus are very troublesome , kido can stick up her paper with webs and is by far tge tactical force to worry about..

While the sound3 handles konan , tayuya brings out her flute and makes it even more hectic.

I cant see konan winnin tbh.

 

[Apêx1]

Obito warping himself or so? Anyways I can't wait to see it.

Which reaction feats? Since when did Konan have superior feats that suggest she'll blitz these people with no reactions. Not to mention she has to go in her paper state and then start using these attacks after putting chakra into them but Tayuya won;t be able to pull out her flute despite having 4-5 member there with here who can intercept attacks coming at her. Telling me these people can't intercept her attacks that she has to prepare before Tayuya pull out something from 20m? Not a chance.

Distance between Naruto and Obito [

You must be registered for see links

]
-Notice he's running AND swninging so his striking speed is backed by his running speed.

Papers were attached to Obito from this distance [

You must be registered for see links

] as this was the last time we saw them before Obito Kamui'd himself
-Obito attempts to Kamui

You must be registered for see links

-Konan raises her hand AFTER reacting to him Kamui'ing himself (in contrast to Obito being the one who needed to react to Naruto's speed last time).
-Papers reach him from the distance before he can Kamui himself, whereas Naruto failed to do what her papers did. And this isn't even taking into account Konan needed to REACT to Kamui and RAISE her hand before he could finish the Kamui.

I'm dying to see what your counter to this is, because it's pretty clear there is no counter for what happened in the manga.

These paper feats are all that are needed for me to make these claims. Clearly, you should realise the difference in speed based on Konan putting her hand up and manipulating the paper a distance faster then Naruto can move. Hell no they can't intercept such speed with their part 1 feats. This is beyond them completely. And anyways, since Konan's body is completely paper she's not actually moving a body. She's simply manipulating her constituent papers with her mind. Tayuya's Genjutsu does not prevent things that don't require bodily movement because it's only a body immobilising Genjutsu [

You must be registered for see links

] but Shikamaru could still use things which don't require bodily movement. Thus Konan will be able to travel and be just fine within the Genjusu in her paper form.

 

[Curse Mark]

Distance between Naruto and Obito [

You must be registered for see links

]
-Notice he's running AND swninging so his striking speed is backed by his running speed.

Papers were attached to Obito from this distance [

You must be registered for see links

] as this was the last time we saw them before Obito Kamui'd himself
-Obito attempts to Kamui

You must be registered for see links

-Konan raises her hand AFTER reacting to him Kamui'ing himself (in contrast to Obito being the one who needed to react to Naruto's speed last time).
-Papers reach him from the distance before he can Kamui himself, whereas Naruto failed to do what her papers did. And this isn't even taking into account Konan needed to REACT to Kamui and RAISE her hand before he could finish the Kamui.

I'm dying to see what your counter to this is, because it's pretty clear there is no counter for what happened in the manga.

These paper feats are all that are needed for me to make these claims. Clearly, you should realise the difference in speed based on Konan putting her hand up and manipulating the paper a distance faster then Naruto can move. Hell no they can't intercept such speed with their part 1 feats. This is beyond them completely. And anyways, since Konan's body is completely paper she's not actually moving a body. She's simply manipulating her constituent papers with her mind. Tayuya's Genjutsu does not prevent things that don't require bodily movement because it's only a body immobilising Genjutsu [

You must be registered for see links

] but Shikamaru could still use things which don't require bodily movement. Thus Konan will be able to travel and be just fine within the Genjusu in her paper form.

But you showed that konan uses her hands to control the papers, much like oro and the kusanagi

 

[BLAZE]

Papers reach him from the distance before he can Kamui himself

What distance ????
If you mean from Konan then wasn't Obito surrounded by papers :| i mean they were all over battlefield

 

[Haizaki]

Leave Apex...I'll respond to him. :lol

 

[Troi]

This is why I don't like fanboys...

 

[Apêx1]

But you showed that konan uses her hands to control the papers, much like oro and the kusanagi

Wot. She's controlled her bodily paper without hands on tonnes of occasions. [

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

][

You must be registered for see links

]. Not sure what this is supposed to be directed to? Is it for the Genjutsu counter? Because if that's the case then she used a paper hand so it's still a possibility since she can move her paper hand freely. Not sure what else it could be directed to, you should clarify.

What distance ????
If you mean from Konan then wasn't Obito surrounded by papers :| i mean they were all over battlefield

Do you see the papers ~1 meter from Obito surrounding him?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

She attached those to him after he started Kamui'ing. Naruto was evaded at point blank range FYI, and Obito initiated Kamui after point blank range was reached. Konan had to react to Kamui after it was initiated. Big difference.

 

[BLAZE]

Do you see the papers ~1 meter from Obito surrounding him?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

She attached those to him after he started Kamui'ing. Naruto was evaded at point blank range FYI, and Obito initiated Kamui after point blank range was reached. Konan had to react to Kamui after it was initiated. Big difference.

Neither of us can tell that but the next scan literally shows Papers surrounding him.They are all over battlefield

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Haizaki]

Distance between Naruto and Obito [

You must be registered for see links

]
-Notice he's running AND swninging so his striking speed is backed by his running speed.

Papers were attached to Obito from this distance [

You must be registered for see links

] as this was the last time we saw them before Obito Kamui'd himself
-Obito attempts to Kamui

You must be registered for see links

-Konan raises her hand AFTER reacting to him Kamui'ing himself (in contrast to Obito being the one who needed to react to Naruto's speed last time).
-Papers reach him from the distance before he can Kamui himself, whereas Naruto failed to do what her papers did. And this isn't even taking into account Konan needed to REACT to Kamui and RAISE her hand before he could finish the Kamui.

I'm dying to see what your counter to this is, because it's pretty clear there is no counter for what happened in the manga.

- We see different Shinobi's running there as well and I didn't know Naruto and Kiba apparently have the same running speed considering they go there at the same time bottom left

You must be registered for see links

.

- Uhmm no...The Paper were far to close to Obito compared to the Naruto's case. He was surrounded with multiple paper bombs. Matter of fact you can see what I'm talking about in the top left of this scan...Look how close they are to his face alone

You must be registered for see links

. Comparing that to the Naruto scenario is wrong.

- We have the fact that Base Jiraiya could evade her paper attacks

You must be registered for see links

so unless you're willing to tell me here that Base Jiraiya can also react to Naruto's running speed who's apparently slower, not interested.

@bold, I really hope that comparison isn't what I think it is. Telling me Konan raised here hand? Looks like you didn't bother looking at the scan before that did you? She had her hands up already before he could use Kamui so she never raised it up before he could complete it...Top right

You must be registered for see links

.

Yeah? Don't die lmao. Not to mention, Obito takes longer to warp himself.

These paper feats are all that are needed for me to make these claims. Clearly, you should realise the difference in speed based on Konan putting her hand up and manipulating the paper a distance faster then Naruto can move. Hell no they can't intercept such speed with their part 1 feats. This is beyond them completely. And anyways, since Konan's body is completely paper she's not actually moving a body. She's simply manipulating her constituent papers with her mind. Tayuya's Genjutsu does not prevent things that don't require bodily movement because it's only a body immobilising Genjutsu [

You must be registered for see links

] but Shikamaru could still use things which don't require bodily movement. Thus Konan will be able to travel and be just fine within the Genjusu in her paper form.

100% sure I addressed the paper feats because it makes 0 sense that Base Jiraiya can dodge papers that are apparently faster than KCM Naruto's running speed. Kiba getting there at the same time with Naruto puts a major dent on that as well. Not to mention take into consideration the distance here and the fact that she has to prep.


Besides, we have the fact that you didn't take into account that Konan has to go in her paper state from Base

You must be registered for see links

in order to fire off those paper attacks

You must be registered for see links

. Plus she has to put chakra into them? From 20M as well? No one would be able to do a thing? Tayuya cannot apparently raise flute? With 4-5people there? Just wow.

And Apex, you conceded to Genjutsu but then still bring it up?

Nope...Tayuya's Genjutsu still prevented Susnaoo from functioning

You must be registered for see links

. Shikamaru's shadow possession isn't proof that Konan's Jutsu would still function under this circumstances. Not to mention Susnaoo doesn't require bodily movements as seen here

You must be registered for see links

here

You must be registered for see links

and many more.


Zeros reasons for me to believe Tayuay's Genjutsu won't prevent Konan when we heave the fact that the shadow neck binding works differently and its endowed with physical strength.

Spoiler

NINJUTSU; Hiden; Kage Kubi Shibari no jutsu (Arcane: Shadow Groping... er, no. Shadow Fondling... ah, crap!* Shadow Neck-Binding technique)
Users: Nara Shikamaru; Nara Shikaku
Offensive; Close, Medium ranges; Rank: none

Main text

A more battle-oriented jutsu developed from House Nara's arcane, Kage Mane**. The shadow is endowed with physical strength, and by transforming it and setting it in motion, one can deal direct damage to the enemy. The most efficient way to do so is strangulation, hence the name.

Caption

-Strange shadows shaped after hands. They bind themselves around the neck and steal life away!!

Picture comment

-The shorter the distance towards the target, the stronger the shadow gets.

Konoha Hundred Leaves Collection

Main text

The basic application of House Nara's hijutsu (arcane art) is capture and restraint of the enemy, but it will prove efficient in many ways depending on how it is employed. The size of the area covered by the shadows cannot be changed. In regards with that limitation, this is by far the best jutsu in the set as far as successful use of said shadows' particularities is concerned.

Transformation
The shadow can be transformed. Utilizing that particularity, the caster can turn their shadow into a string-like shape, thus expanding its hitting range. It can also be ramified to attack multiple enemies.

Enlargement
If the sources of light themselves can be controlled, it's also possible to alter the surface covered by the shadow. A good grasp of the sun's location or even an artificial source of light will prove instrumental.

Captions

-A battle between "potentiality" and "limitations".

-A large variety of shadow arts!

Picture comments

-With Kage Kubi Shibari, the shadows can be stretched thin enough to attack even [bodily] sections such as a finger.

Main thing is where is your proof for Konan's just being able to function under these conditions like the Shadow neck binding? None.

 

[Char Aznable]

Konan negs. The Sound 4 were fodder Genin with OP curse marks that made them Jonin level. And they all got clowned in the end. Konan defeated Sasori, found Leaf elites and nearly defeated Obito.

 

[BLAZE]

Konan defeated Sasori

when did this happen
Or are you using Video Games feats :|

 

[Haizaki]

Konan negs. The Sound 4 were fodder Genin with OP curse marks that made them Jonin level. And they all got clowned in the end. Konan defeated Sasori, found Leaf elites and nearly defeated Obito.

In the game right? Once again, I'm sick of people using this nonsense excuses. Sasori lost to Sakura and Chiyo but defeated the third Kazekage.

Konan had to prep beforehand and still couldn't defeat Obito despite him having no knowledge on that. Not to mention she instantly lost to Base Jiraiya had Pain not intervened. What's your point? This is a collaboration of people who Kabuto resorted to using their abilities when fighting two of the Uchiha elites far above Konan...We have their abilities being used here at the same time. It's ridiculous how people think.

Genin level Sasuke was disgracing an Anbu leveled Shinobi Haku. Matchups would always be different. Portrayal is another thing but if one is a bad matchup for you, then it is what it is. Just like how Shikamru speaks about different types of opponents, top right

You must be registered for see links

 

[Char Aznable]

In the game right? Once again, I'm sick of people using this nonsense excuses. Sasori lost to Sakura and Chiyo but defeated the third Kazekage.

Konan had to prep beforehand and still couldn't defeat Obito despite him having no knowledge on that. Not to mention she instantly lost to Base Jiraiya had Pain not intervened. What's your point? This is a collaboration of people who Kabuto resorted to using their abilities when fighting two of the Uchiha elites far above Konan...We have their abilities being used here at the same time. It's ridiculous how people think.

Genin level Sasuke was disgracing an Anbu leveled Shinobi Haku. Matchups would always be different. Portrayal is another thing but if one is a bad matchup for you, then it is what it is. Just like how Shikamru speaks about different types of opponents, top right

You must be registered for see links

Sasori used poison on the 3rd Kazekage.

Prep is a bad thing? Look at Shikamaru.

Haku was not an Anbu ninja. Haku and Zabuza were rogues. The mask Haku wore, was exactly that. A mask. Used to fool Kakashi and company.

 

[RedRobin]

Genin level Sasuke was disgracing an Anbu leveled Shinobi Haku. Matchups would always be different. Portrayal is another thing but if one is a bad matchup for you, then it is what it is. Just like how Shikamru speaks about different types of opponents, top right

You must be registered for see links

Nah. Haku wasnt even trying in that fight. He later goes on to surprise attack a jounin like Sai in the War arc, not to mention he intercepted Kakshi's attack.

 

[Troi]

Nah. Haku wasnt even trying in that fight. He later goes on to surprise attack a jounin like Sai in the War arc, not to mention he intercepted Kakshi's attack.

You must be registered for see images

You're funny.

 

[BLAZE]

sai was a jounin or Anbu :|

he was Anbu if i remember correctly

 

[RedRobin]

You must be registered for see images

You're funny.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Not joking.