Kisame vs EMS Madara

[TRE MERCER]

What are you talking about? Madara clearly formed a V4 next to Kurama that was it's size. BM Naruto's avatar is half that at best, which also, is much bigger than Daikōdan. A slash disperses the water, and another kills Kisame.

Katon is not even debatable anymore.​

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That was Perfect Susanoo Madara formed next to Kurama it just wasn't stabilized. Also do you people really believe the Kurama avatar is really not the complete size of the average Kurama. It's obvious that the Kurama chakra shroud goes to Kurama full size. Kurama is clearly the size as these other

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. Do you honestly think full Kurama is 4x or even 2x as big as all the other Bijuu? If so that would make no sense because they were all basically the same size when they were

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so why would Kurama grow so large?

 

[Dannie]

Damn niqqa, you restricted PS?

 

[RicardoA]

Madara mid-diffs.
You may be thinking GBS eats Susanoo, but that would be nonsense.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Madara mid-diffs.
You may be thinking GBS eats Susanoo, but that would be nonsense.

Please explain how?

 

[Rιver]

That was Perfect Susanoo Madara formed next to Kurama it just wasn't stabilized. Also do you people really believe the Kurama avatar is really not the complete size of the average Kurama. It's obvious that the Kurama chakra shroud goes to Kurama full size. Kurama is clearly the size as these other

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. Do you honestly think full Kurama is 4x or even 2x as big as all the other Bijuu? If so that would make no sense because they were all basically the same size when they were

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so why would Kurama grow so large?

No, pretty sure that was Final Susano'O, V4. A Perfect non-stabilized stands high, this was crouching. Madara doesn't even need that in this case anyway.

It's actually been estimated to be 7x larger at best, but that would be probably too much. A 2x is perfectly reasonable.

Kids =/= adults. Madara grew taller than Sasuke despite the fact that he was shorter as a child. They are chakra entities. Such logic doesn't apply.​

​

 

[Conspirator.]

Just so people know, the UNstabilitzed version of ps is the same as v4.

 

[VongolaX]

There's always final Susanoo or Susanoo with legs.

I don't even think Susanoo is a good idea when you have GSB on your side.

Madara wins because he is Madara

It's like putting kisame up against Hashirama with no buddah

 

[Apêx1]

I would go by Kisame's words

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. As soon as Daikodan touched Gai's hirudora, Kisame was shocked that it wasn't getting stronger/absorbing the jutsu. That tells me that the absorption process is relatively quick. Now Madara's v4 Susanoo has no real mobility feats.(it's legless basically) so his only option would be to destroy it. The issue is that Madara's v4 has never shown the ability to create gigantic mountain busting shockwaves like his PS, so I have to question whether it has the firepower to destroy it completely. Kifflom already established that sasuke's v3 enhanced via 9 tails chakra isn't a mountain busting tech btw.

Edit: Forgot about Genjutsu. Madara wins mid diff with genjutsu in tandem with his v4 susanoo.

Susano isn't absorbable so the Daikodan arguments are null and void. Kaguya has absorbed nearly every jutsu thrown at her yet Susano has attacked her twice and was never absorbed, once even making direct contact with her. Susano cut the god tree with a sword consistent of chakra, and was completely unaffected. I have no reason to believe Susano's solidified chakra can be absorbed, feel free to refute this if you have viable proof against it. Susano would destroy the water dome by swinging its sword and causing massive waves which in turn would destabilise the under control dome (assuming he was somehow caught in it). Kisame can also only dream of keeping up in CQC, even if genjutsu isn't a viable option against the likes of Kisame (no, it doesn't work). Gunbai, sharingan and vastly greater speed/skill will easily grant him superiority. Either way, no attacks Kisame has can destroy v1 Susano bar 1000 sharks, which is a huge waste of chakra given there is no water source nearby, and is also easily countered by the likes of this katon [

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] (both are nullified since Samehada is ineffective) or a simple v2 Susano activation.

 

[Conspirator.]

Susano isn't absorbable so the Daikodan arguments are null and void. Kaguya has absorbed nearly every jutsu thrown at her yet Susano has attacked her twice and was never absorbed, once even making direct contact with her. Susano cut the god tree with a sword consistent of chakra, and was completely unaffected. I have no reason to believe Susano's solidified chakra can be absorbed, feel free to refute this if you have viable proof against it.

Well I theorised that Susanoo couldn't be absorbed a while back, since it protected the kyuubi from hashirama's wood release(which absorbs chakra), and "prevented" Madara from absorbing Onoki's jinton.(Madara said so). But there really isn't any hard core manga proof of that. Still, you have a point about the god tree.

Kisame can also only dream of keeping up in CQC, even if genjutsu isn't a viable option against the likes of Kisame (no, it doesn't work).

Why wouldn't genjutsu work?

Gunbai, sharingan and vastly greater speed/skill will easily grant him superiority.

I agree that Madara is better in CQC, but Kisame with samaheda is very hard to put down.(durability wise)

Either way, no attacks Kisame has can destroy v1 Susano bar 1000 sharks, which is a huge waste of chakra given there is no water source nearby, and is also easily countered by the likes of this katon [

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] (both are nullified since Samehada is ineffective) or a simple v2 Susano activation.

You have a point, especially given that there's no water source. But overall I agree that Madara wins.

 

[Apêx1]

Well I theorised that Susanoo couldn't be absorbed a while back, since it protected the kyuubi from hashirama's wood release(which absorbs chakra), and "prevented" Madara from absorbing Onoki's jinton.(Madara said so). But there really isn't any hard core manga proof of that. Still, you have a point about the god tree.

There's more evidence claiming Susano cannot be absorbed than otherwise. There is literally nothing pointing towards it being absorbable, and many things portraying it not being absorbable. Kaguya would've absorbed it when Sasuke punched her with PS last chapter. Shinju tree would've absorbed on contact. And as you said, Mokuton didn't effect it. 3 pieces of evidence towards my argument, none towards the Susano being absorbable other than 'it's a manifestation/solidification of chakra thus it somehow implies it's the same as regular chakra'. One thing to note is that it's probably absorbable in its non-solidified state, but is unabsorbable when solidified.

Why wouldn't genjutsu work?

Kisame easily disrupts the chakra. One may say Madara kicks it out of his hand, but then again he has the ability to

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with it and remain genjutsu invulnerable.

I agree that Madara is better in CQC, but Kisame with samaheda is very hard to put down.(durability wise)

True, but gunbai is still an extremely powerful weapon given it was cutting through the god tree like it was nothing [

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].

You have a point, especially given that there's no water source. But overall I agree that Madara wins.

Good, good. Madara too OP. Lol

 

[Conspirator.]

There's more evidence claiming Susano cannot be absorbed than otherwise. There is literally nothing pointing towards it being absorbable, and many things portraying it not being absorbable. Kaguya would've absorbed it when Sasuke punched her with PS last chapter. Shinju tree would've absorbed on contact. And as you said, Mokuton didn't effect it. 3 pieces of evidence towards my argument, none towards the Susano being absorbable other than 'it's a manifestation/solidification of chakra thus it somehow implies it's the same as regular chakra'. One thing to note is that it's probably absorbable in its non-solidified state, but is unabsorbable when solidified.



Kisame easily disrupts the chakra. One may say Madara kicks it out of his hand, but then again he has the ability to

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with it and remain genjutsu invulnerable.



True, but gunbai is still an extremely powerful weapon given it was cutting through the god tree like it was nothing [

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].


Good, good. Madara too OP. Lol

With regards to Kisame breaking genjutsu: I have heard the "samaheda disrupting chakra argument" before. The issue I have with that is that back in part 1, Kisame fell prey to Kurenai's genjutsu, and didn't break out at all until Itachi reversed it using his sharingan. Even if Samaheda could disrupt the chakra, there would still be an opening for Madara to finish him off.(Samaheda isn't smart like a bijuu, so it may take a little longer to break Kisame out than a bijuu would) I agree with everything else, including the fact that Susanoo most likely can't be absorbed.

 

[Apêx1]

With regards to Kisame breaking genjutsu: I have heard the "samaheda disrupting chakra argument" before. The issue I have with that is that back in part 1, Kisame fell prey to Kurenai's genjutsu, and didn't break out at all until Itachi reversed it using his sharingan. Even if Samaheda could disrupt the chakra, there would still be an opening for Madara to finish him off.(Samaheda isn't smart like a bijuu, so it may take a little longer to break Kisame out than a bijuu would) I agree with everything else, including the fact that Susanoo most likely can't be absorbed.

Fair enough, I can agree to that. Even though I think Kisame was underestimating them since none of them probably had what it takes to kill him given his reaction speeds and durability. Merging would still break out of genjutsu, all it takes is for him is to be smart, and with the intel on genjutsu he was given it shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

 

[KidGamer65]

People need to stop being dumb. Madara's standing Susanoo is no where near the size of Bijuu mode Kurama. Sasuke was because of the Kyuubi chakra buff. Madara standing Susanoo is pretty small if you look

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GSB would eat a Susanoo this small with ease. Same goes for Madara katon techs. Or Kisame counters them by making the entire battlefield into a lake via GCW or He could counter them with 1k Feeding sharks. Either way Madara is out-matched here.

This is the largest Madara has ever made his Susanoo.

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Bijuu compared to humans.

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His Susanoo in that pic is bigger than those Bijuu, so no, his Legged Susanoo isn't "no where near the size of a Bijuu Mode Naruto"

Madara would easily evade GSB as it can jump.

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And the Susanoo you posted is larger than you think. It is nearly as large as the sealing pyramid Shukaku made, and that pyramid was the same size as Shukaku.

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Kurama's tails are larger than its body.

That was Perfect Susanoo Madara formed next to Kurama it just wasn't stabilized. Also do you people really believe the Kurama avatar is really not the complete size of the average Kurama. It's obvious that the Kurama chakra shroud goes to Kurama full size. Kurama is clearly the size as these other Bijuu. Do you honestly think full Kurama is 4x or even 2x as big as all the other Bijuu? If so that would make no sense because they were all basically the same size when they were little so why would Kurama grow so large?

And when will people stop with this argument? Why in the world would Naruto's Kurama Avatar be the size of Full Kurama when he only has half Kurama? lmao, common sense buddy.

And Kurama lost half its chakra, shrunk in size and then it was the same size as the rest of the Bijuu. Are you telling me that Full Kurama is the same size as the Bijuu too? Cause then that'd make no sense.

 

[Zexion~]

Kisame can control the path of GSB? IF he jumps he would send it upwards.....Its really just a giant shark bomb and we've seen how he's able to control those with incredibly precision

 

[KidGamer65]

Kisame can control the path of GSB? IF he jumps he would send it upwards.....Its really just a giant shark bomb and we've seen how he's able to control those with incredibly precision

Obviously not after he's fired it. No reason to believe he can until he actually does it.

 

[Zexion~]

Obviously not after he's fired it. No reason to believe he can until he actually does it.

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Managed to get from one place to another by traveling in a shark bomb... AKA Maneuvering its path

 

[Rιver]

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Managed to get from one place to another by traveling in a shark bomb... AKA Maneuvering its path

1. One absorbs chakra.

2. Other is as standard as any other water jutsu that inflicts physical damage.

Not exactly the same.​

 

[Zexion~]

1. One absorbs chakra.

2. Other is as standard as any other water jutsu that inflicts physical damage.

Not exactly the same.​

Whats your point? Kisame's on chakra properties have shown to absorb chakra he most likely just shifts in his own chakra with the same properties into the attack which he can still control U_U

 

[KidGamer65]

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Managed to get from one place to another by traveling in a shark bomb... AKA Maneuvering its path

Not the same jutsu. Not to mention he was simply swimming, no proof that he can shift its traveling path after he's fired it.

 

[TRE MERCER]

No, pretty sure that was Final Susano'O, V4. A Perfect non-stabilized stands high, this was crouching. Madara doesn't even need that in this case anyway.

It's actually been estimated to be 7x larger at best, but that would be probably too much. A 2x is perfectly reasonable.

Kids =/= adults. Madara grew taller than Sasuke despite the fact that he was shorter as a child. They are chakra entities. Such logic doesn't apply.​

​

So i guess this isn't Ps because it doesn't have legs either

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This is the largest Madara has ever made his Susanoo.

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Bijuu compared to humans.

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His Susanoo in that pic is bigger than those Bijuu, so no, his Legged Susanoo isn't "no where near the size of a Bijuu Mode Naruto"

Madara would easily evade GSB as it can jump.

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And the Susanoo you posted is larger than you think. It is nearly as large as the sealing pyramid Shukaku made, and that pyramid was the same size as Shukaku.

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Kurama's tails are larger than its body.



And when will people stop with this argument? Why in the world would Naruto's Kurama Avatar be the size of Full Kurama when he only has half Kurama? lmao, common sense buddy.

And Kurama lost half its chakra, shrunk in size and then it was the same size as the rest of the Bijuu. Are you telling me that Full Kurama is the same size as the Bijuu too? Cause then that'd make no sense.

That scan you brought up is beyond terrible stop.