I've also seen very little reason in believing that Kisame's Suiton will be substantial without any extra chakra and a water source. You do realize that his respectable performances were due to both of these factors correct?
The reasoning has been provided but as usual all you can do is pretend it doesn't exist so you can continue to believe whatever nonsense you think is correct.
I suggest you look up the basics of chakra control. There's a limitation on how much chakra can be allocated towards each jutsu before the chakra is dispersed and wasted. This is basic chakra control 101 bro. Who cares if it's made with his own chakra when that chakra won't be used in conjunction with the chakra he harnesses for his jutsu? We're told that an external water source magnifies that power of a ninja's Suiton and this is exactly what Kisame does. Honestly, this is such a frivolous argument when Kisame's water source plays the same role as any other water source.
Read what I'm going to type please because I can't be asked to go back and forth with someone who clearly has the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader.
Yes, there is a limitation on how much chakra can be allocated towards a single jutsu? But is that relevant? No, it's not. If you had actually read before you responded, a hard task for you I know, you'd know that this is irrelevant. Did I say Kisame would allocate more chakra than usual towards his Suiton jutsu? No. I said that him spitting out that water with his own chakra is proof that he doesn't need a water source to use his Suiton. Is this simple enough for you to understand or do I have to dumb it down even further for you?
And of course you are making nonsense up. Why can't you argue with honesty for once in your life? Where did the Manga say that Water Sources automatically amplify the Suiton of any Shinobi? Nowhere. Water Sources are stated/shown to be used in the Manga because some Shinobi did not have the chakra or the mastery over said jutsu to produce it without controlling and enhancing pre existing water, which is why Tobirama was praised for being able to use Suiton without a water source. A water source isn't going to magically make the knead and release limits for a jutsu change. GSB, Thousand Feeding Sharks or whatever it is the size will remain the same. The only difference is that Kisame will need to use his own chakra to form said jutsu instead of using a water source, and it's proven fact that he has the chakra to do such without a water source.
Let's take a look at the bold. What are you even talking about? Man sometimes I wonder about you people. Do you bother to read the Manga before you post? A water source magnifies the power of a shinobi's Suiton because they can use their chakra to control that water source, which is larger than what their own chakra can produce. Kisame doesn't use an external water source. He molds his chakra into Suiton and then spits it out. In what universe is water created from his own chakra an
external water source? Do I have to go on about how stupid your argument sounds? Because I could go on. The water source Kisame is using is water he created from his chakra. Not an external water source. Thus the "benefits" of having an external water source don't apply as he's already used his own power for that.
I never denied that he couldn't use any of them, I'm arguing that he wouldn't be capable of using it on such a large scale without such a massive boost from Bijuu chakra and the water source that was accessible against Gai. You can try to neglect the boost that Kisame obtained from the Hachibi's chakra, but when Samehada was shaking frantically at the mere presence of that chakra with Kisame confirming that he grows in proportion to how powerful his opponent is, then there's every reason to believe that the Hachibi's chakra amplified his strength, especially when the Hachibi possesses far greater chakra than Kisame does.
And did I say that Water Dome would be as large? No. Everything else are jutsu that he's used before and after his fight with B so you crying about B's chakra like it's some excuse doesn't help your argument it makes you look like you don't know how to address the arguments presented in front of you without going on irrelevant tangents. :lol
Your Water Source nonsense has been addressed. Kisame has canonically molded more Suiton chakra than what is necessary for all his jutsu except Water Dome while at 30% of his full power. There is literally nothing to discuss here so you can stop now.
Unless you're going to tell me that Kisame's chakra absorption played no difference in his fight even though Bee was a complete joke to Kisame whereas Roshi who cannot even manifest a V2 cloak was such a grueling opponent for Kisame that he struggled preserving Roshi's life? Didn't think so.
Who said it didn't? :lol It simply doesn't change what happens in this match up and of course you've yet to actually be able to show why not having the Hachibi's chakra + not having an external water source = Kisame is useless.
So let me this straight, even after all of this bickering, you have the decency to contradict yourself and concede that Kisame's water source did enable him to use a respectable Suiton (Waterdome)? I already addressed why Kisame's water source amplifies his Suiton and the fact that it served an integral part in manifesting one of his most infamous Suiton denotes Kisame's own water sources playing a huge role in his power. Simply indisputable.
No, it's a contradiction to you because unless it's a statement that agrees with your nonsensical views it's a statement you can't comprehend despite us both speaking the same language.
-Water produced by Kisame's chakra=/=External Water Source.
-A water source is beneficial because most Shinobi did not have the ability to create high leveled Suiton without a water source. Not because using a water source automatically makes any Suiton jutsu you have stronger. Kisame does have that ability, so why does him spitting out water beforehand amplify his Suiton? I'll wait.
And yeah, Hachibi's chakra is relevant to this discussion. If you're simply take a glance at Kisame vs. Gai fight to suggest Kisame is actually a very powerful opponent against this duo, then you have to be willing to acknowledge that this was only possible by being invigorated by the Hachibi's chakra.
Unless you are going to argue something as stupid as Kisame can't use GSB, Water Dome, etc without Hachibi's chakra then no, it's not relevant. It's hilarious how children will take one instance from the Manga and try to use it to discredit a character every chance they get instead of arguing like they have some common sense.
He was ensnared by Gaara's more nimble gourd sand, not the desert sand.
That's irrelevant to the point when the point was that Deidara's shown the capacity to effectively deal with large scale attacks. The only moments when Deidara struggled were when his opponents were far too quick for him to handle which isn't the case. In this case, the speed of Gaara's Gourd Sand was problematic, but Deidara had no issues circumnavigating and challenging the sheer scope of Gaara's Desert Sand.
Deidara hasn't effectively been shown to deal with anything. Gaara caught him with his sand. Deidara was never shown to be fast enough to weave around his attacks so where is the evidence that lets him escape Water Dome's formation from close range? Oh yes, it doesn't exist which is why instead of providing it you are making things up hoping that I won't call you out on it. :lol
Is this desert sand? Yes, it is. Deidara had to use a bomb to escape, meaning he wasn't fast enough to escape. He only evaded a single assault from Gaara's large scaled desert sand. The next assault almost caught him, and then the gourd sand caught him. The only single thing he evaded is not on the scale of 30% Kisame's Suiton let alone a full powered Kisame's so we can stop now.
Funny how you crossed out the rest of my post even though it certainly was pertinent information. The best you can argue is that Kisame's Suiton can be used as a viable defense even though that's irrelevant based on the flexibility of both Deidara's and Sasori's jutsu. Only Kakuzu will be capable of contributing heavily in the match, but Kisame is literally useless. He can't hit them nor does he have any advantageous techniques or characteristics to circumvent their aerial combat style. The epitome of uselessness here.
I crossed out those points because they are useless, wrong and irrelevant. You going on and on about how Kisame is useless instead of actually proving that he's useless doesn't do you any good nor does it score you any points because at the end of the day it's your opinion until you support it. If he was useless you'd have addressed what was being said about Kisame's role in the battle like others are doing instead of arguing irrelevant nonsense while ignoring the actual argument.
You didn't provide me any evidence that Deidara would simply remain stationary and allow Kisame to engulf him in his Waterdome.
So basically you can't prove anything you're saying? Hmm, not surprised. My evidence has been provided. Go address it or don't respond since I'd rather argue with someone who has points
supporting their statements. A concept that seems to be beyond your understanding.
