[VS] Killer Bee vs EMS Sasuke

Rιver

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@Strict: Fair point, fair point.

Which is something we know he can do, so why are we discussing this again?

You said he doesn't take damage. He takes it until he chops off a limb. So every pain he's experienced until that, will affect him and not his clone.

He isn't the same being as the tentacle.

How do you know he exited the tentacle? When they stripped Bijuu off of Gaara, he didn't exit out of Shukaku's any part. When same happened to Naruto, he didn't exit out of any part. The part was just to keep B alive. Nothing implies B was there, while Hachibi got sucked in.

It took something as strong as a Bijuu Dama to put him down for the count, unless the arrow pierces some kind of vital, he lives.

Bomb =/= piercing. Because Hachibi tanked his own Bijuu Dama, can he tank a PS cut? No, he can't. Because Pain tanked a Bijuu Dama, can it tank a V4 cut? No, it can't.

Vital? How vital hits are 3 to 6 arrows to the chest? Or throat?
 

BlacLord™

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Killer Bee was being pushed hard by the most primitive form of MS Sasuke, despite the latter not being at full strength nor intent to kill either.

Sasuke takes this med-high diff.
 

KidGamer65

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You said he doesn't take damage. He takes it until he chops off a limb. So every pain he's experienced until that, will affect him and not his clone.
Oh, well then its barely relevant since he'll be on fire for like what? 2 seconds before he cuts his tentacle off?



How do you know he exited the tentacle? When they stripped Bijuu off of Gaara, he didn't exit out of Shukaku's any part. When same happened to Naruto, he didn't exit out of any part. The part was just to keep B alive. Nothing implies B was there, while Hachibi got sucked in.
Is the bold a joke? There is a hole next to the tentacle and B is standing next to it. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes level deductive reasoning to tell what happened before that. This isn't Naruto and this isn't Gaara, nor is that the reason B was inside the tentacle. Hachibi cut off his tentacle, and put B inside so that he wouldn't die.

Um, he was there until the tentacle was cut off, that's when B separated from Hachibi.


Bomb =/= piercing. Because Hachibi tanked his own Bijuu Dama, can he tank a PS cut? No, he can't. Because Pain tanked a Bijuu Dama, can it tank a V4 cut? No, it can't.
PS blade=Standard Bijuu Dama, but it focuses that energy along the edge of the blade, thus it affects a smaller surface area thus it'd do more damage, so no he can't tank it. He didn't even tank his own Bijuu Dama, he got put out of commission.

Lol, Pain didn't tank a Bijuu Dama either, where is that coming from/

Susanoo arrow is incomparably weaker than a Bijuu Dama, unlike PS slash, so your example starts off flawed. Not to mention Susanoo arrow doesn't even begin to have a feat that would lead me to believe it'd rip right through and kill something that can take Bijuu Dama.

Vital? How vital are 3 to 6 arrows to the chest?

Except I've explained why that isn't happening. Ever.
 

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Oh, well then its barely relevant since he'll be on fire for like what? 2 seconds before he cuts his tentacle off?




Is the bold a joke? There is a hole next to the tentacle and B is standing next to it. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes level deductive reasoning to tell what happened before that. This isn't Naruto and this isn't Gaara, nor is that the reason B was inside the tentacle. Hachibi cut off his tentacle, and put B inside so that he wouldn't die.

Um, he was there until the tentacle was cut off, that's when B separated from Hachibi.

Concede.

PS blade=Standard Bijuu Dama, but it focuses that energy along the edge of the blade, thus it affects a smaller surface area thus it'd do more damage, so no he can't tank it. He didn't even tank his own Bijuu Dama, he got put out of commission.

Lol, Pain didn't tank a Bijuu Dama either, where is that coming from/

Susanoo arrow is incomparably weaker than a Bijuu Dama, unlike PS slash, so your example starts off flawed. Not to mention Susanoo arrow doesn't even begin to have a feat that would lead me to believe it'd rip right through and kill something that can take Bijuu Dama.



Except I've explained why that isn't happening. Ever.

Pain tanked a Bijuu Dama from KN6 Naruto . Point blank range.

You don't compare a piercing force to an explosion. Madara tanked a big, big explosion that cut Shinju apart but couldn't stop Sasuke's Chidori. In the latest chapter, we saw RSM Naruto stalemating Sasuke's Chidori infused with PS. Kakuzu didn't die of FRS but a Chidori Eiso would have cut him clean.

You never compare piercing power to an explosion.

No, you haven't?
 

Strict

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That was Perfect Susanoo's blade, we are talking about a Complete Susanoo's arrow. There is no comparison.
Of course there is. The sword of the PS has an enormous destruction when it swings it to slice. In this case, simply a Chakra blade was pierced through the Bijuu Dama, nothing more.

Naruto created a boss-summon sized Rasenshuriken, the arrow was shown to have the same diameter.

It plows through the arrows like they weren't there and hit Sasuke.
Nope. The Bijuu Dama explodes upon impact, and the arrow unleashes a strong impact. Multiple arrows cause enough impact to let the Bijuu Dama explode in their path. It's simply you who can't imagine it to happen. But it will happen. It will happen, when giant arrows will be fired into the Bijuu Damas path.

Tendo evaded the FRS, not to mention Tendo is a speedster when he has his powers active as he outran KN6 Naruto. If Bijuu Dama is fired into the ground and it explodes, Sasuke won't escape it, nor would Tendo unless you have speed feats of them crossing a Mountain's distance in a split second.
So Orochimaru was also a speedster when he fought the four tails (instead of running away)?

Also, Bijuu Dama at its fastest moves as fast as a Susanoo arrow. They both hit at the same exact time.
Now you make something for what you have blamed others. Hachibi =/= BSM Naruto. In fact, Hachibi's Bijuu Dama had the exact same speed as the FRS and Itachi's Magatamas. Madaras Magatamas were blocked by raising two whole walls of stone and sand, easily to react.

Already replied to this when River posted it. B enters Bijuu Mode and the arrow hits his lower body, thus he barely takes any damage while Sasuke still dies from Bijuu Dama.
What? Sasuke will make the arrow hit the middle of Bee's body. Again, Sasuke is the faster one and reacts immediately after Hachibi cuts off his limb, he won't wait for him emerging from the limb with a charged Bijuu Dama.

I think this is my last post, I'm tired.
 

Benjamin King

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Even after Madara demonstrated one without it? What.

Except that's Madara, who has far more experience with the use of the Jutsu. I'm not giving Sasuke other people's feats. You're going to need to show me feats of Sasuke doing that himself, mate.

But does Sharingan have MS powers? Facepalm, facepalm.

Where did I say this? That's right, I didn't. I showed scans of Sasuke's MS deactivated while using Susanoo, I showed scans of Sasuke stating he saw everything with his Sharingan. There is no use of denying.

Because MS can be used without it visible?

Yes. Sasuke proved it, Itachi did and Madara did.
 

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He said that after Obito had already told him his failure. So no, he didn't, and same happens in this match-up.
no it doesnt happen in this matchup because bee didnt do that on his own and had it fool sasuke. sasuke was the one who helped him out when he cut off the tentacle. he now knows that bee has something like that in his arsenal to counter his flames so sasukes sharingan would be alert and catch on to any attempt by bee to do the same in which sasuke attacks the tentacle.

So why did you say this:


Sasuke hits Bee with Amatersu, Bee substitutes (which Sasuke doesn't see through), and does what the scan I posted would do. Also, that's assuming Bee would use BM straight away.

I agreed on what KidGamer65 said Bee blows him up with TBB after substitute.
bold. based on what? based on the scan were sasuke helped him out and had no knowledge on bees trick? that is never happening again. sasuke lights him and prepares himself, any tentacle cut by bee is jumped with enton magatama which sasuke quickly direcrs towards it or he lights it up with amaterasu which would burn the tentacle like it did to jiriayas toad stomach. he isnt firing any bijuudama before sasukes attacks connect as sasuke would already be on his ass the moment the tentacle pops out.
 
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Rιver

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Except that's Madara, who has far more experience with the use of the Jutsu. I'm not giving Sasuke other people's feats. You're going to need to show me feats of Sasuke doing that himself, mate.

I don't know why I'm arguing this, because it's obvious and he didn't have it on when he went blind.

Where did I say this? That's right, I didn't. I showed scans of Sasuke's MS deactivated while using Susanoo, I showed scans of Sasuke stating he saw everything with his Sharingan. There is no use of denying.

No need, because he never has. But can he do so? Yes. Do I care if you neglect that fact? No, because it doesn't matter since I don't need it to prove I'm right.

Yes. Sasuke proved it, Itachi did and Madara did.

Dude, are you high right now? Because apparently, Amaterasu can be used without MS by your logic. So what's the point of activating MS if they don't need it anymore?

What the...
 
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Benjamin King

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I don't know why I'm arguing this, because it's obvious and he didn't have it on when he went blind.

Then that goes back to my point, that Sasuke had his Sharingan activated when Bee substituted by Sasuke's own words. If you keep denying the character's own words, you'll be ignored.

No need, because he never has. But can he do so? Yes. Do I care if you neglect that fact? No, because it doesn't matter since I don't need it to prove I'm right.

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Dude, are you high right now? Because apparently, Amaterasu can be used with MS by your logic. So what's the point of activating MS if they don't need eyes anymore?

So if Madara and Itachi could activate Susanoo without MS, why do they activate EMS to do so?
 

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Then that goes back to my point, that Sasuke had his Sharingan activated when Bee substituted by Sasuke's own words. If you keep denying the character's own words, you'll be ignored.

Why don't you show the next panel? Or the entire fight?

You're the one telling me that Sharingan can be used without it visible and it's techniques. It's obvious, painfully obvious, ridiculously and ludicrously obvious that when one deactivates Sharingan they can't use it's abilities.

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I was referring to Susano'O. I've repeated this to you for two pages, why would I waste anymore time? Your only argument is that MS and Sharingan can be used without visible. You take a panel, and cut off the next where Sasuke realized his mistake.

So if Madara and Itachi could activate Susanoo without MS, why do they activate EMS to do so?

Because Susano'O is the only weapon of MS, is that right? Why don't you tell me, why Madara switches from Rinnegan to EMS to put one to genjutsu? Sharingan is more than just Susano'O; hypnotic, precognitive abilities and ability to see chakra etc.

Itachi doesn't have EMS. He only activates MS when he uses Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu or Susano'O.

Better. Forget Susano'O as it has been used without eyes already (doesn't require MS, or EMS after unlocked), name one, even just one MS ability that has been used with Dojutsu deactivated altogether I'll shut up for good.
 

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If Killer Bee escapes his full octopus form through a tentacle, he loses the chakra contained within the body of the octopus and only has the chakra in the tentacle left. Killer Bee isn't getting into BM with a small fraction of his chakra left ( ).

Furthermore if Bee is to get hit with enton arrow or enton magatamas, they'll pierce through him and burn him from the inside out so he'll be in even more pain than he would be if the amaterasu is on his body.
 

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Why don't you show the next panel? Or the entire fight?

You're the one telling me that Sharingan can be used without it visible and it's techniques. It's obvious, painfully obvious, ridiculously and ludicrously obvious that when one deactivates Sharingan they can't use it's abilities.

No, I didn't say that. I said what Sasuke said. I don't care what you see with your own eyes on the panel, SASUKE SAID HE SAW EVERYTHING WITH HIS SHARINGAN ACTIVATED, MEANING HE NEVER DEACTIVATED IT.

''I saw everything with my Sharingan''

I was referring to Susano'O. I've repeated this to you for two pages, why would I waste anymore time? Your only argument is that MS and Sharingan can be used without visible. You take a panel, and cut off the next where Sasuke realized his mistake.

Our main argument was never about Susanoo. It was about whether Sasuke had his Sharingan when Bee substituted. You denied it, I proved it with Sasuke's words.

Because Susano'O is the only weapon of MS, is that right? Why don't you tell me, why Madara switches from Rinnegan to EMS to put one to genjutsu? Sharingan is more than just Susano'O; hypnotic, precognitive abilities and ability to see chakra etc.

Itachi doesn't have EMS. He only activates MS when he uses Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu or Susano'O.

Better. Forget Susano'O as it has been used without eyes already (doesn't require MS, or EMS after unlocked), name one, even just one MS ability that has been used with Dojutsu deactivated altogether I'll shut up for good.

So you're going around and contradicting yourself, huh?

Dude, are you high right now? Because apparently, Amaterasu can be used without MS by your logic. So what's the point of activating MS if they don't need it anymore?

The fact they always activate Susanoo with their Doujutsu on proves you wrong.
 

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If Killer Bee escapes his full octopus form through a tentacle, he loses the chakra contained within the body of the octopus and only has the chakra in the tentacle left. Killer Bee isn't getting into BM with a small fraction of his chakra left ( ).

Nope. Otherwise, the Chakra Akatsuki got from his tentacle would not have been stated to be little. [ ] So no, he doesn't lost the Chakra contained in the body of the Octopus, as it's only a little. Not to mention Hachibi can gather Chakra for him.
 

KidGamer65

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Concede.



Pain tanked a Bijuu Dama from KN6 Naruto . Point blank range.

Yet he got taken down by a Base Rasengan. :| All Pain did was use the rock to divert the Bijuu Dama away from him. Unless you are ready to agree that Base Rasengan>>>KN6 Bijuu Dama, Pain wasn't hit.

You don't compare a piercing force to an explosion. Madara tanked a big, big explosion that cut Shinju apart but couldn't stop Sasuke's Chidori. In the latest chapter, we saw RSM Naruto stalemating Sasuke's Chidori infused with PS. Kakuzu didn't die of FRS but a Chidori Eiso would have cut him clean.

You never compare piercing power to an explosion.

You can compare it, because the only difference is the amount of surface area the attack affects. I don't know where people got this "piercing and explosions can't be compared" stuff from, but its false. They can be compared. Everything I explained to you can be explained with the concept of surface area and damage per unit area, and total energy output.

-Chidori is more focused than Naruto's YRS (Which he didn't tank, it blew out his midsection) thus it cut him. Its more focused because it affected a smaller surface area than YRS did.

-Chidori stalemated Bijuu Dama because they output the same amount of power. This is completely unrelated to our discussion though.

-FRS's energy is so much more widespread than Chidori Spear while the latter focuses it on a much smaller surface area.
 

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No, I didn't say that. I said what Sasuke said. I don't care what you see with your own eyes on the panel, SASUKE SAID HE SAW EVERYTHING WITH HIS SHARINGAN ACTIVATED, MEANING HE NEVER DEACTIVATED IT.

''I saw everything with my Sharingan''

Until the next panel.

Our main argument was never about Susanoo. It was about whether Sasuke had his Sharingan when Bee substituted. You denied it, I proved it with Sasuke's words.

Which got debunked by Sasuke's own words in the next panel. You are painfully ignorant.

So you're going around and contradicting yourself, huh?

Enlighten me.

The fact they always activate Susanoo with their Doujutsu on proves you wrong.

Even though Madara activated Susano'O without eyes? Dude, what?

Are you trolling?

Yet he got taken down by a Base Rasengan. :| All Pain did was use the rock to divert the Bijuu Dama away from him. Unless you are ready to agree that Base Rasengan>>>KN6 Bijuu Dama, Pain wasn't hit.

Hit a hardened mirror enough with a chair so it's at it's breaking point. Throw something as small as a baseball and it's already broken. Pein was never fixed at that moment. As you could see, it had many bruises and was at it's breaking point.

Pain wasn't hit? So I guess Pain used an ultimate Shunshin to run away? Because it was in the blast, and it was clearly hit.

You can compare it, because the only difference is the amount of surface area the attack affects. I don't know where people got this "piercing and explosions can't be compared" stuff from, but its false. They can be compared. Everything I explained to you can be explained with the concept of surface area and damage per unit area, and total energy output.

-Chidori is more focused than Naruto's YRS (Which he didn't tank, it blew out his midsection) thus it cut him. Its more focused because it affected a smaller surface area than YRS did.

-Chidori stalemated Bijuu Dama because they output the same amount of power. This is completely unrelated to our discussion though.

-FRS's energy is so much more widespread than Chidori Spear while the latter focuses it on a much smaller surface area.

Except that in comparison with YRS and Chidori, you used penetrating power. Not blast. Shinra Tensei that casually destroyed walls and houses was tanked by Kakashi couple of times. A Chidori would kill him. A Rasengan was tanked by Kabuto, who suffered much injuries. A Chidori would kill him, doesn't matter if he starts healing or not. Planetary Rasengan was tanked by Mu. A Chidori, would kill him.

You cannot compare. Saying one is more focused and the other not is not the same thing. One penetrates. Other eradicates. It's like comparing a bomb to a sword slash.

So what if FRS is much more widespread? It attacks literally every cell in the body. Doesn't change the fact that Chidori Spear would do more damage in this case than other. See what I'm getting at? You're grasping at straws right now.
 
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Benjamin King

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Until the next panel.

Doesn't say he deactivated his Sharingan.

Which got debunked by Sasuke's own words in the next panel. You are painfully ignorant.

Didn't see him say his Sharingan was deactivated.

Enlighten me.

Just did.

Even though Madara activated Susano'O without eyes? Dude, what?

Are you trolling?

OMG! You just asked ''What's the point of needing their MS if they don't need eyes anymore''. Stop going around and changing an argument.
 

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If Killer Bee escapes his full octopus form through a tentacle, he loses the chakra contained within the body of the octopus and only has the chakra in the tentacle left. Killer Bee isn't getting into BM with a small fraction of his chakra left ( ).

Lol. Using his clone technique doesn't use up his chakra. He used it against the Juubi and reemerged in Bijuu Mode.

Furthermore if Bee is to get hit with enton arrow or enton magatamas, they'll pierce through him and burn him from the inside out so he'll be in even more pain than he would be if the amaterasu is on his body.

Good thing he can prevent both from happening, not to mention he gets pierced while Sasuke dies to Bijuu Dama. B reverts to Base and is perfectly fine.

Of course there is. The sword of the PS has an enormous destruction when it swings it to slice. In this case, simply a Chakra blade was pierced through the Bijuu Dama, nothing more.

Unless you are going to argue that the blades of PS are the same as the weaponry of a weaker Susanoo, which is obviously false, then no. There is no comparison.


Naruto created a boss-summon sized Rasenshuriken, the arrow was shown to have the same diameter.

No, it wasn't. Diameter refers to circles anyway, not sure how you are measuring diameter when talking about an arrow. FRS was just as long as the arrow and it was much wider, thus it was bigger.

Nope. The Bijuu Dama explodes upon impact, and the arrow unleashes a strong impact. Multiple arrows cause enough impact to let the Bijuu Dama explode in their path. It's simply you who can't imagine it to happen. But it will happen. It will happen, when giant arrows will be fired into the Bijuu Damas path.

I can't imagine it happening because you have pretty much no evidence that Susanoo arrows produce a strong enough impact to cause Bijuu Dama to explode. Even Rikudo Sasuke's arrows only made a strong enough impact to cause the Gudo Dama (Weaker than Bijuu Dama when it comes to traveling force and explosive force) to explode, they wouldn't even do anything to a Bijuu Dama let alone EMS Sasuke's arrows.

So Orochimaru was also a speedster when he fought the four tails (instead of running away)?

How is this relevant.

Now you make something for what you have blamed others. Hachibi =/= BSM Naruto. In fact, Hachibi's Bijuu Dama had the exact same speed as the FRS and Itachi's Magatamas. Madaras Magatamas were blocked by raising two whole walls of stone and sand, easily to react.
If only I did.

Hachibi fires Bijuu Dama as fast as Naruto does.



So no, its moves as fast as Susanoo arrow.


What? Sasuke will make the arrow hit the middle of Bee's body. Again, Sasuke is the faster one and reacts immediately after Hachibi cuts off his limb, he won't wait for him emerging from the limb with a charged Bijuu Dama.
He can't. Already explained this. If he attacks the cut off Limb, the arrow will head toward the ground, where the Limb is, B enters Bijuu Mode and then the arrow pierces his lower body, as his lower body will be toward the ground, not the middle of his body.

Unless Sasuke can instantly prep, fire, and hit B with his arrow, then no, he isn't stopping B from entering Bijuu Mode.

I think this is my last post, I'm tired.

Ok.
 

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OMG! You just asked ''What's the point of needing their MS if they don't need eyes anymore''. Stop going around and changing an argument.

As I said, Susano'O is not the only ability bestowed by Mangekyo. Mangekyo provides better movement as Madara said. It provides MS abilities like Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, as Itachi said.

If they only wanted Susano'O, just like Madara did they wouldn't use EMS nor MS but just Rinnegan or base if they wanted to. Or Sharingan. But Susano'O, as showed in canon is not dependent in MS anymore. Ocular abilities like Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are.
 

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Lol. Using his clone technique doesn't use up his chakra. He used it against the Juubi and reemerged in Bijuu Mode.



Good thing he can prevent both from happening, not to mention he gets pierced while Sasuke dies to Bijuu Dama. B reverts to Base and is perfectly fine.
.
You mean when Kakashi kamui's the tail and then Killer bee transformed within the Kamui dimension from a mere tail all the way to BM? I guess that refutes my point but then how did Killer Bee almost run out of chakra fighting Taka? I guess Killer Bee has improved compared to before.

Whatever I guess Bee wins high difficulty.
 

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Hit a hardened mirror enough with a chair so it's at it's breaking point. Throw something as small as a baseball and it's already broken. Pein was never fixed at that moment. As you could see, it had many bruises and was at it's breaking point.

Bruises=/=Breaking point. Pain being weakened so much that Rasengan killed him even though Bijuu Dama failed is your assumption.



Pain wasn't hit? So I guess Pain used an ultimate Shunshin to run away? Because it was in the blast, and it was clearly hit.
You can clearly see him using a rock to hit KN6's mouth away from his position, the Bijuu Dama fired away from them, and detonated, away from them.


Except that in comparison with YRS and Chidori, you used penetrating power. Not blast.

Uh, no, I didn't.


Shinra Tensei that casually destroyed walls and houses was tanked by Kakashi couple of times. A Chidori would kill him.
Because Chidori affects a smaller surface area, thus being more focused on one point than Shinra Tensei.

A Rasengan was tanked by Kabuto, who suffered much injuries. A Chidori would kill him,
Same as above.

doesn't matter if he starts healing or not. Planetary Rasengan was tanked by Mu. A Chidori, would kill him.
Planetary Rasengan put a hole in Mu's stomach or chest, he would have died had he not been an Edo. In what universe is that "tanking"

You cannot compare. Saying one is more focused and the other not is not the same thing. One penetrates. Other eradicates. It's like comparing a bomb to a sword slash.
Yes it is, because it is the SOLE reason why weaker piercing attacks can do worse to a shield than stronger explosive attacks. There is no other reason.

A bomb is much stronger and would do worse to someone, so that isn't an accurate comparison.


So what if FRS is much more widespread? It attacks literally every cell in the body. Doesn't change the fact that Chidori Spear would do more damage in this case than other. See what I'm getting at? You're grasping at straws right now.

The fact that its more widespread means that all of the Wind blades aren't hitting every cell in the body. Chidori Spear affects a smaller surface area, thus can do more critical damage. Not to mention you've provided no proof that a Susanoo arrow is strong enough to rip right through him besides "Piercing=/=Explosive Damage" which is an argument flawed out the ass considering I could use the same reasoning to say that any piercing attack runs right through B and kills him. But fine, I'll say a Susanoo arrow can run him through, doesn't change the fact that I've already explained why its not hitting him.

Here's a question though. What would a Susanoo arrow do to Naruto's Kurama Avatar? Is Susanoo arrow going to run right through Perfect Susanoo even though Perfect Susanoo took a Bijuu Dama?

He can't. Already explained this. If he attacks the cut off Limb, the arrow will head toward the ground, where the Limb is, B enters Bijuu Mode and then the arrow pierces his lower body, as his lower body will be toward the ground, not the middle of his body.

Irrelevant, they'll all hit the same place.

1. He can use multiple arrows, but they will all fire in the same direction at the same altitude. He can't make one arrow go up, one arrow go down, and so forth. That makes no sense.

2. Sasuke will be aiming at the tentacle on the ground, thus they'll all go towards the ground. B enters Bijuu Mode after or while the arrows are being fired thus they'll all hit his lower body.

1. Sasuke sees the tentacle and fires at it.

2. The tentacle is on the ground. Due to its sheer size difference from the Full Gyuki, when B transforms, his lower body will be where the tentacle was, thus the arrows pierce there, not his upper body.

This ends with Sasuke's death by Bijuu Dama. There is no other conclusion.
 
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