[VS] Killer Bee vs EMS Sasuke

[Benjamin King]

As I said, Susano'O is not the only ability bestowed by Mangekyo. Mangekyo provides better movement as Madara said. It provides MS abilities like Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, as Itachi said.

If they only wanted Susano'O, just like Madara did they wouldn't use EMS nor MS but just Rinnegan or base if they wanted to. Or Sharingan. But Susano'O, as showed in canon is not dependent in MS anymore. Ocular abilities like Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are.

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[Rιver]

Bruises=/=Breaking point. Pain being weakened so much that Rasengan killed him even though Bijuu Dama failed is your assumption.




You can clearly see him using a rock to hit KN6's mouth away from his position, the Bijuu Dama fired away from them, and detonated, away from them.

So he was at his best then, eh? Rasengan isn't something anyone can tank. But he was weakened.

What is your point? The blast detonated right in front of KN6's face, there's no denying. Pain was clearly about a feet or two away. Then there's this gigantic explosion. If you're telling me that they escaped or it didn't detonate where I just explained, you need to look at the scan again.

Uh, no, I didn't.



Because Chidori affects a smaller surface area, thus being more focused on one point than Shinra Tensei.


Same as above.


Planetary Rasengan put a hole in Mu's stomach or chest, he would have died had he not been an Edo. In what universe is that "tanking"

A hole? No. Opened it up? Yes

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. What about Chidori? It would have destroyed the part it hit, because more concentration. I didn't disagree with that fact, but that's exactly why you don't compare them.

Yes it is, because it is the SOLE reason why weaker piercing attacks can do worse to a shield than stronger explosive attacks. There is no other reason.

A bomb is much stronger and would do worse to someone, so that isn't an accurate comparison.

A bomb eradicates. A sword cuts or splits. Two completely different methods.

The fact that its more widespread means that all of the Wind blades aren't hitting every cell in the body. Chidori Spear affects a smaller surface area, thus can do more critical damage. Not to mention you've provided no proof that a Susanoo arrow is strong enough to rip right through him besides "Piercing=/=Explosive Damage" which is an argument flawed out the ass considering I could use the same reasoning to say that any piercing attack runs right through B and kills him. But fine, I'll say a Susanoo arrow can run him through, doesn't change the fact that I've already explained why its not hitting him.

Here's a question though. What would a Susanoo arrow do to Naruto's Kurama Avatar? Is Susanoo arrow going to run right through Perfect Susanoo even though Perfect Susanoo took a Bijuu Dama?

There's no point arguing about that, because Tsunade in canon manga confirmed that it attacks, every. Cell. Of. The. Body

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. Chidori doesn't do that and isn't much more concentrated, in fact, FRS is. But which cuts better? Chidori.

The point is moot, because I never said arrow > Bijuu Dama. And you can't even compare it like that. Kurama is more than enough capable of tanking a Bijuu Dama. PS has already demonstrated this feat. Say you got two needles, both equal and same. One doesn't penetrate a wall. Does the other penetrate it? Without even throwing it, you realize it wouldn't.

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This doesn't prove anything. Achieving =/= using. They have to achieve that stage, but further on, they don't need the eyes. If in the canon manga they showed this, why on earth would you neglect it? Dude, wake up already.

 

[Benjamin King]

This doesn't prove anything. Achieving =/= using. They have to achieve that stage, but further on, they don't need the eyes. If in the canon manga they showed this, why on earth would you neglect it? Dude, wake up already.

So why does Sasuke activate his EMS or MS to use Susanoo?

 

[Rιver]

So why does Sasuke activate his EMS or MS to use Susanoo?

Because he uses Kagutsuchi in conjunction? Genjutsu? Precognition? Amaterasu?

You think all this can be done without activating MS or Sharingan?

 

[Benjamin King]

Because he uses Kagutsuchi in conjunction? Genjutsu? Precognition? Amaterasu?

You think all this can be done without activating MS or Sharingan?

Did he need any of that in

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? No, so no.

 

[Rιver]

Did he need any of that in

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? No, so no.

>Madara already stated that his Mangekyo provides better and more fluid movements.
>Sharingan grants precognition, meaning easier to track Danzo down.

Yeah, let's ignore that.

 

[Benjamin King]

>Madara already stated that his Mangekyo provides better and more fluid movements.
>Sharingan grants precognition.

Yeah, let's ignore that.

So you're saying, that Sasuke needed precognition against Danzo running on a straight line without using speed? Alright, I'm out.

 

[KidGamer65]

So he was at his best then, eh? Rasengan isn't something anyone can tank. But he was weakened.

Never said that he was at his best, I'm just seeing nothing from you that implies he was so weakened that he'd be unable to take a Base Rasengan when he allegedly tanked Bijuu Dama before.

Choza and Choji were about to smash him here.

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Is this attack stronger than Bijuu Dama, which he supposedly tanked?

You already admitted that Deva gets run through by Chidori. Asura is more durable as Raikiri had trouble getting through, yet Naruto's Senpo: Rasengan blew it apart with ease. Are you insinuating that Senpo Rasengan>>Bijuu Dama?

What is your point? The blast detonated right in front of KN6's face, there's no denying. Pain was clearly about a feet or two away. Then there's this gigantic explosion. If you're telling me that they escaped or it didn't detonate where I just explained, you need to look at the scan again.

Panel 1: Rock slams into KN6's mouth.

Panel 2: Bijuu Dama is shown away from KN6's mouth, thus it was fired, and going how his mouth was pointed away, and the fact that Deva isn't strong or durable enough to take a KN6 Bijuu Dama, that leads me to believe it exploded away from them.

A hole? No. Opened it up? Yes

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. What about Chidori? It would have destroyed the part it hit, because more concentration. I didn't disagree with that fact, but that's exactly why you don't compare them.

Is that not a hole?

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A bomb eradicates. A sword cuts or splits. Two completely different methods.

But one is still stronger, thus they can be compared, just not by the same means as comparing the same type of attack.

There's no point arguing about that, because Tsunade in canon manga confirmed that it attacks, every. Cell. Of. The. Body

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. Chidori doesn't do that and isn't much more concentrated, in fact, FRS is. But which cuts better? Chidori.

Are you even reading my posts? Cause I clearly said that it does, but not every wind blade attacked Kakuzu, and that isn't debatable as you can see him in the middle of that large sphere, unless you want to tell me how the parts of the sphere that weren't touching him pierced him (Lol, Magic?) then you are wrong.

Do you even know what I mean when I say concentrated? You should because I explained it. It affects a smaller surface area (Fact) thus creating more pressure thus doing more damage even though its incomparably weaker than FRS. Same exact reason why if you went and laid on a nail, you'd get pierced but if I laid on a bed of nails, I'd be perfectly fine. Same exact reason. Chidori doesn't cut better than FRS, that's nonsense. Take Kakuzu, enlarge him (keep his durability the same) so that he's the same size of the wind sphere and FRS would obliterate him while Chidori merely runs him through.

When it comes to energy output, Chidori=Rasengan is an established fact. So I'll say that they are both at 150 J for this example. Chidori focuses that 150 J into one point while Rasengan spreads it out, so Rasengan would do less damage to Ay despite it being equal with Rasengan. If you took the Chidori, and made it affect the same exact surface area that Rasengan affects, what would happen? Chidori would be tanked with no damage just like Rasengan unlike it piercing his armor like it did in the manga.

The point is moot, because I never said arrow > Bijuu Dama. And you can't even compare it like that. Kurama is more than enough capable of tanking a Bijuu Dama. PS has already demonstrated this feat. Say you got two needles, both equal and same. One doesn't penetrate a wall. Does the other penetrate it? Without even throwing it, you realize it wouldn't.

Hachibi took a Bijuu Dama to be put down, yet you are saying a Susanoo arrow is going to one shot him, so no, the point isn't moot. Its literally the same example just switched out with two different beings.

Failing to see how the bold is relevant.

 

[iEspada]

lol ribcage Susano'o tanks tbb. tbb is unfocused explosion not like Tsunades punch.
And Hashirama caught the tbb with a wooden arm. Sasukes Susano'o would catch the tbb as well.

 

[Sound]

lol ribcage Susano'o tanks tbb. tbb is unfocused explosion not like Tsunades punch.
And Hashirama caught the tbb with a wooden arm. Sasukes Susano'o would catch the tbb as well.

Lol..............​

 

[KidGamer65]

lol ribcage Susano'o tanks tbb. tbb is unfocused explosion not like Tsunades punch.
And Hashirama caught the tbb with a wooden arm. Sasukes Susano'o would catch the tbb as well.

Rofl, this dude...

 

[Apêx1]

That isn't rapid firing, that's him spawning it as he moves his head, thus the ring that was created, by him spinning his head in a 360 degree fashion.

How does that change anything, in essence, it's rapid firing because the Amateratsu is continuously occurring. The term rapid firing isn't what you are supposed to argue, but rather what Bee can do to counter it since manga has shown us he can't take off his tentacle for the first long period of amateratsu.

Because it was eating the wind Shuriken of the spinning FRS, which would also disrupt the rotation, not because its strong enough to disrupt the rotation.

Once again, no. I don't even know why we are debating this, it is clear as day that no fire could possibly create such an effect when in contact with wind, hence it's the Ketai Henka of the Enton arrow itself. The Enton arrow he fired was the same Enton arrow he used to cut the Juubi clone in half along with the shield [

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]. Seriously man, you can't be serious if you think fire and wind combine to make this type of effect, when it's identical to that of a screeching effect [

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].

Um, have you ever seen Enton come into contact with a spinning Wind Shuriken? No, so you can't say that it doesn't create that effect when the two meet.

No, but I have this thing called common sense which tells me if in the case, it where to have a reaction like that, the thing that would be effected would be the fire, and not a random screech when the fire hasn't even expanded around the FRS itself. Fire and wind don't react like that, at all. I don't need scans to back it up when the Enton arrow would most definitely react with it like that as a solid substance due to Ketai Henka.

It didn't do that because of its power, it did that because it eats Fuuton, which is the cause of the rotation, not because its strong enough to stop its rotation.

Addressed. Enton eating away at chakra won't reduce rotation itself, but the constituent chakra thus decreasing spin naturally as quantity of chakra decreases.

The rotational speed and penetrative capabilities all come from the Wind Shuriken. Fire eats Wind, and fire can't be cut by anything let alone wind, so the arrow not being cut or harmed isn't any kind of special feat.

That's different, it's implying the Ketai Henka is powerful enough to be unaffected by FRS's power, since it becomes solidified rather than a mixture of gases via Ketai Henka. So it is a rather special feat which you are undermining for unknown reasons.

I know that, but that doesn't mean that Enton did what it did to FRS because of its power, it did that because it eats Fuuton, and nothing more. There is no reason why it'd do the same to a Bijuu Dama, which is completely different from Rasen Shuriken.

No. And I don't see where you're going with the bold.

Uh, yes, he would. He knows that Sasuke can sue Raiton, and he knows that he'd save his comrade if she was in trouble, which he created when was flailing around. Pain isn't an excuse for him not being able to cut off his tentacle.

This completely debunks everything you've been trying to say [

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]. He thought of it on the spur of the moment, nothing implies he could do it himself had he not thought of that plan. More so, Hachibi lost several limbs despite having substituted his body, meaning the body still takes all the damage after substitution occurs, it's not some form of oral rebirth which you've made it out to be.

2. How does that counter anything I said?

Did you not see Juubito's body healing? And because of the fact that oxygen abundance is limited in a given space, therefor the effect of Futon on the Enton itself is limited.

 

[KidGamer65]

How does that change anything, in essence, it's rapid firing because the Amateratsu is continuously occurring. The term rapid firing isn't what you are supposed to argue, but rather what Bee can do to counter it since manga has shown us he can't take off his tentacle for the first long period of amateratsu.

Then I'll focus on that point.

Once again, no. I don't even know why we are debating this, it is clear as day that no fire could possibly create such an effect when in contact with wind, hence it's the Ketai Henka of the Enton arrow itself. The Enton arrow he fired was the same Enton arrow he used to cut the Juubi clone in half along with the shield [

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]. Seriously man, you can't be serious if you think fire and wind combine to make this type of effect, when it's identical to that of a screeching effect [

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].

Ok fine, that reaction was caused because the arrow is solid. Too bad it doesn't change anything. Wind still gets eaten by fire, and that's how the manga described that altercation so that is how its going to be taken, as Wind being consumed by fire, not Enton Arrow being strong enough to stop the rotation of the FRS. Nor does this show that the same thing will happen to Bijuu Dama, as it doesn't work the same way as FRS and its much stronger than FRS.

Addressed. Enton eating away at chakra won't reduce rotation itself, but the constituent chakra thus decreasing spin naturally as quantity of chakra decreases.

What is the difference?

That's different, it's implying the Ketai Henka is powerful enough to be unaffected by FRS's power, since it becomes solidified rather than a mixture of gases via Ketai Henka. So it is a rather special feat which you are undermining for unknown reasons.

No, it doesn't, because the target is Wind and the aggressor is fire, thus fire wins as it eats up wind, and the Enton Arrow's Chakra Ratio was above the COFRS' chakra ratio, thus it gets consumed. It has nothing to do with strength at all. Why would a Wind Shuriken with a lower chakra ratio cut through Fire with a higher chakra ratio when Fire naturally eats Wind?

Enton Arrow being able to consume Fuuton Rasen Shuriken in no way, shape or form means that it can consume, stop or nullify Bijuu Dama. its ridiculous.

No. And I don't see where you're going with the bold.

I'm saying that Enton eating up FRS doesn't mean it'll eat up Bijuu Dama. It makes no sense, at all.

This completely debunks everything you've been trying to say [

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]. He thought of it on the spur of the moment, nothing implies he could do it himself had he not thought of that plan. More so, Hachibi lost several limbs despite having substituted his body, meaning the body still takes all the damage after substitution occurs, it's not some form of oral rebirth which you've made it out to be.

No, it doesn't. How does him thinking of the plan to escape right then and there debunk anything I said? Whether or not he thought of the plan doesn't relate to him being able to cut off his own tentacle to escape Amaterasu.


Never made it out as some form of Oral Rebirth, I only said he'll be able to attack Sasuke once again after reappearing, and that is a fact. Not to mention he was on fire for a good while against Taka, no reason why he'd have to wait that long again when he has intel on Sasuke's moves this time around.

Did you not see Juubito's body healing? And because of the fact that oxygen abundance is limited in a given space, therefor the effect of Futon on the Enton itself is limited.

I ignored the Juubito part because I conceded that point, and I'm not getting the rest of this part of your post. How does oxygen abundance being limited in a given space (Which space are you referring to) mean that the Wind won't power the Flame up?

 

[Apêx1]

Then I'll focus on that point.

Okay

Ok fine, that reaction was caused because the arrow is solid. Too bad it doesn't change anything. Wind still gets eaten by fire, and that's how the manga described that altercation so that is how its going to be taken, as Wind being consumed by fire, not Enton Arrow being strong enough to stop the rotation of the FRS. Nor does this show that the same thing will happen to Bijuu Dama, as it doesn't work the same way as FRS and its much stronger than FRS.

Never denied it. Simply addressing the mistaken concept of Enton being the one to instigate such effects on the FRS. And I am iffy if it would, actually. We have established that TBB requires an equal amount of energy to come against it in order to force it to explode. However, if Sasuke shoots the arrow at the core from the same altitude as Bee does, Bee's TBB will be forced to overpower the Enton arrow to an extent in which it pushes it's entire forward momentum backwards, rather than deflect it, which is no easy task at all. If anything, it is likelier that the TBB's forward momentum making contact with the Enton arrow's forward momentum will end up forcing the Enton Arrow within the TBB, or the Enton arrow completely shattering. But as we've already established, COFRS couldn't even effect the Enton arrow with its insane torque, which cuts humans in half with ease. So it all depends on how Sasuke aims the arrow and from where, but given the fact he's shown extreme precision with Chidori Senbon due to his Sharingan, I'd say it's likely he can aim at the core of the TBB.

What is the difference?

Badly phrased, my bad. If Enton eats away at the Futon, the Futon's spin naturally decreases due to the quantity reducing. However, the spin reduction will occur naturally rather than instigate such a screeching effect.

No, it doesn't, because the target is Wind and the aggressor is fire, thus fire wins as it eats up wind, and the Enton Arrow's Chakra Ratio was above the COFRS' chakra ratio, thus it gets consumed. It has nothing to do with strength at all. Why would a Wind Shuriken with a lower chakra ratio cut through Fire with a higher chakra ratio when Fire naturally eats Wind?

Enton Arrow being able to consume Fuuton Rasen Shuriken in no way, shape or form means that it can consume, stop or nullify Bijuu Dama. its ridiculous.

Based on what was it an unporportional chakra ratio? Last I checked, Tobirama, a skilled sensor, claimed for it to be a proportional chakra ratio [

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]. And you don't understand my point. The COFRS's blade is completely attacking a partial amount of the Enton arrow, so if anything, the part it is in contact with has a smaller chakra ratio then itself. Also, I don't see how chakra ratio has anything to do with the COFRS's torque, as it's torque merely comes from its rotational speed. Don't see how chakra ratio being bigger on the Ketai Henka has anything to do with it being unaffected by the COFRS's torque.

I'm saying that Enton eating up FRS doesn't mean it'll eat up Bijuu Dama. It makes no sense, at all.

I never claimed it will doe nor do I believe such a thing is possible in anything under 10 seconds.

No, it doesn't. How does him thinking of the plan to escape right then and there debunk anything I said? Whether or not he thought of the plan doesn't relate to him being able to cut off his own tentacle to escape Amaterasu.

Again, he thought of attacking Karin on the spur of the moment, who happened to not be on fire when he was attempting to hit her. Before that, he was screaming in agony and they were all watching him. Nothing whatsoever indicates he could've done it by himself while in such pain.

Never made it out as some form of Oral Rebirth, I only said he'll be able to attack Sasuke once again after reappearing, and that is a fact. Not to mention he was on fire for a good while against Taka, no reason why he'd have to wait that long again when he has intel on Sasuke's moves this time around.

How is that a fact? It is quite noticeable that the Hachbi's eye was under Amateratsu [

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] and cost him several limbs in the scan I posted previously. Given that he cannot fire a TBB when he has nothing to balance on (was meant figuratively, but with no usable tails/arms he cannot possibly rotate given lack of feet), I'd say going out of the tentacle and coming back won't help. And inb4 you show another scan of midget Hachibi shooting a TBB at FTL. It's rather clear that the TBB won't destroy a v3 Susano when it was smaller than the size of Killer Bee himself who is shown inside the Hachibi [

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]. So anything under a full BM gets stopped since there are only 2 forms, and anything above is countered by the likes of Amateratsu and Enton arrows. And note that he can't simply undo and redo BM, as it was stated to require a tremendous amount of 'strength' from Bee. Having intel means nothing when he can't do anything about Amateratsu which is prepp'd the second he senses Bee attempting to go BM.

I ignored the Juubito part because I conceded that point, and I'm not getting the rest of this part of your post. How does oxygen abundance being limited in a given space (Which space are you referring to) mean that the Wind won't power the Flame up?

I didn't say that. I conceded the point in which Wind amplifies Enton, but the extent in which it amplifies it is limited. That is all I am trying to say. I know he cannot replicate a Juubi sized Enton, but he can definitely replicate something half as big as it, given the fact it was an equal chakra ratio. Thus, Sasuke's Amateratsu is far larger than the Hachibi and the Amateratsu he used against Hachibi when he had MS.

Off topic: note that in the VIZ, Bee said Sasuke was probably the toughest guy he ever fought. Not "one of the toughest" like in mangapanda, but "the toughest." Therefor, it further suggests with the EMS and its mastered capabilities, added with the Susano he could not wield precedingly, he should be ahead of Bee. Just a suggestion, nothing more.

 

[KidGamer65]

Never denied it. Simply addressing the mistaken concept of Enton being the one to instigate such effects on the FRS. And I am iffy if it would, actually. We have established that TBB requires an equal amount of energy to come against it in order to force it to explode. However, if Sasuke shoots the arrow at the core from the same altitude as Bee does, Bee's TBB will be forced to overpower the Enton arrow to an extent in which it pushes it's entire forward momentum backwards, rather than deflect it, which is no easy task at all. If anything, it is likelier that the TBB's forward momentum making contact with the Enton arrow's forward momentum will end up forcing the Enton Arrow within the TBB, or the Enton arrow completely shattering. But as we've already established, COFRS couldn't even effect the Enton arrow with its insane torque, which cuts humans in half with ease. So it all depends on how Sasuke aims the arrow and from where, but given the fact he's shown extreme precision with Chidori Senbon due to his Sharingan, I'd say it's likely he can aim at the core of the TBB.

Bijuu Dama>COFRS in every way, shape and form. Explosive power, chakra density, and the momentum behind it is far greater than the momentum behind COFRS. If Bijuu Dama and Enton Arrow clash, the arrow gets plowed right through as if it weren't even there. Even Rikudo Sasuke's Susanoo arrows couldn't pierce through the unexpanded, unchanged Gudo Dama, no way will EMS Sasuke's Enton Arrow pierce a Bijuu Dama. Aiming at the center of it isn't going to change this result.

Badly phrased, my bad. If Enton eats away at the Futon, the Futon's spin naturally decreases due to the quantity reducing. However, the spin reduction will occur naturally rather than instigate such a screeching effect.

Oh, that makes sense then.

Based on what was it an unporportional chakra ratio? Last I checked, Tobirama, a skilled sensor, claimed for it to be a proportional chakra ratio [

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]. And you don't understand my point. The COFRS's blade is completely attacking a partial amount of the Enton arrow, so if anything, the part it is in contact with has a smaller chakra ratio then itself. Also, I don't see how chakra ratio has anything to do with the COFRS's torque, as it's torque merely comes from its rotational speed. Don't see how chakra ratio being bigger on the Ketai Henka has anything to do with it being unaffected by the COFRS's torque.

Nvm then, it was the same. And I'm starting to understand what you are saying now, so forget my last reply to this part of your post.

Again, he thought of attacking Karin on the spur of the moment, who happened to not be on fire when he was attempting to hit her. Before that, he was screaming in agony and they were all watching him. Nothing whatsoever indicates he could've done it by himself while in such pain.

If he had enough control over his motor functions while in such pain that he was able to attack Karin of his own will and make it seem like he was just wildly flailing around, then why wouldn't he be able to cut off his tentacle instead? No reason why he can't.

How is that a fact? It is quite noticeable that the Hachbi's eye was under Amateratsu [

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] and cost him several limbs in the scan I posted previously. Given that he cannot fire a TBB when he has nothing to stand on, I'd say going out of the tentacle and coming back won't help.

That wasn't the Hachibi, that was his clone that B left behind. Hachibi was burning for a few seconds before he split and left a clone behind. B pulled the same jutsu against the Juubi, and he was in perfect fighting condition. [

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] [

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]

And inb4 you show another scan of midget Hachibi shooting a TBB at FTL. It's rather clear that the TBB won't destroy a v3 Susano when it was smaller than the size of Killer Bee himself who is shown inside the Hachibi [

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].

That explosion was the size of the Juubi, thus still Mountain sized, thus it'd still vaporize a Mountain. All of Sasuke's Susanoo variants get obliterated by it. V3 was ripped open by Danzo's Fuuton, and Bijuu Dama is so much stronger than it that it isn't even funny.

So anything under a full BM gets stopped since there are only 2 forms, and anything above is countered by the likes of Amateratsu and Enton arrows. And note that he can't simply undo and redo BM, as it was stated to require a tremendous amount of 'strength' from Bee.

Any form of the Susanoo arrow has been countered in this thread.

Having intel means nothing when he can't do anything about Amateratsu which is prepp'd the second he senses Bee attempting to go BM.

Senses? He can't sense anything, nor can he predict it with Sharingan, and he can counter Amaterasu.

I didn't say that. I conceded the point in which Wind amplifies Enton, but the extent in which it amplifies it is limited. That is all I am trying to say. I know he cannot replicate a Juubi sized Enton, but he can definitely replicate something half as big as it, given the fact it was an equal chakra ratio. Thus, Sasuke's Amateratsu is far larger than the Hachibi and the Amateratsu he used against Hachibi when he had MS.

That Enton was the same size as Gamakichi (As it was the same size as the COFRS), who is the same size as a Bijuu, so something half that size isn't going to be far larger than the Hachibi, it'll be half the size of a Bijuu, thus half the size of Hachibi. If we are referring to this one and not the one Naruto and Sasuke first used, then you are still wrong since half of that isn't far larger than the Hachibi either.

Off topic: note that in the VIZ, Bee said Sasuke was probably the toughest guy he ever fought. Not "one of the toughest" like in mangapanda, but "the toughest." Therefor, it further suggests with the EMS and its mastered capabilities, added with the Susano he could not wield precedingly, he should be ahead of Bee. Just a suggestion, nothing more.

That just means B will have a harder time with him, and that Sasuke was the toughest guy he ever fought. Had he said something like, that was close, I guess you'd have a point.

 

[Varrah]

So why does Sasuke activate his EMS or MS to use Susanoo?

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[TRE MERCER]

Not sure why people are still debating this. I think it's pretty Obvious who wins here. Sasuke wins by portrayal and feats.

 

[Apêx1]

Bijuu Dama>COFRS in every way, shape and form. Explosive power, chakra density, and the momentum behind it is far greater than the momentum behind COFRS. If Bijuu Dama and Enton Arrow clash, the arrow gets plowed right through as if it weren't even there. Even Rikudo Sasuke's Susanoo arrows couldn't pierce through the unexpanded, unchanged Gudo Dama, no way will EMS Sasuke's Enton Arrow pierce a Bijuu Dama. Aiming at the center of it isn't going to change this result.

I'd agree if it wasn't shown as a parallel with TBB against Obito. It has the same speed as TBB and thus the only difference in their forward momentum's intensity is the mass, which is unlikely to be vastly significant given the constituent chakra's of the two aren't differing, and if anything, Sasuke' Susano chakra is more potent than Naruto's Kyuubi chakra as stated by the Kyuubi himself in early part 2. So mass is the only deciding factor here, and it won't be big enough to plow through something that is attacking its core imo. Enton being aimed at the core will make deflection only possible by reversing its forward momentum completely, which is unlikely.

Oh, that makes sense then.



Nvm then, it was the same. And I'm starting to understand what you are saying now, so forget my last reply to this part of your post.

Ight.

If he had enough control over his motor functions while in such pain that he was able to attack Karin of his own will and make it seem like he was just wildly flailing around, then why wouldn't he be able to cut off his tentacle instead? No reason why he can't.

No. He was impulsively smacking his tentacles around due to the pain, him aiming the place he would smack his tentacles isn't the equivalent of him being capable of using his hand to cut off one of his tentacles.

That wasn't the Hachibi, that was his clone that B left behind. Hachibi was burning for a few seconds before he split and left a clone behind. B pulled the same jutsu against the Juubi, and he was in perfect fighting condition. [

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]

Oh, my bad. And no he didn't, the Juubi laser cut off his Tentacle, but the tentacle wasn't what was warped, but rather his horn was [

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].

That explosion was the size of the Juubi, thus still Mountain sized, thus it'd still vaporize a Mountain. All of Sasuke's Susanoo variants get obliterated by it. V3 was ripped open by Danzo's Fuuton, and Bijuu Dama is so much stronger than it that it isn't even funny.

No, it was only the Juubi's size because the Juubi's TBB also exploded [

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]. Hachibi's TBB was far smaller, and thus served as a much smaller role in that explosion. V3 also survived Kirin, which is a mountain buster as well. Surviving is all he needs to do, he doesn't need to tank, though he can in fact tank that small scaled TBB Hachibi launched.

Any form of the Susanoo arrow has been countered in this thread.

Don't see anything explaining why the Enton arrow's forward momentum is reversed when the size is the only difference between it and the TBB. Thus, if the Enton arrow was an equivalent size, it would carry an equal forward momentum. Moreover, since the Enton arrow is a piercing attack, it won't need to create an equilibrium with the TBB's energy output, as it's hitting a much smaller unit per area, thus should logically pierce through it given its added penetrative properties from its constituent Ketai Henka. Similar to PS shockwave, it could logically pierce a flash TBB, but had you spread its effect to a size matching the flash Biju Dama thus decreased its energy output per unit area, it would likely do nothing.

Senses? He can't sense anything, nor can he predict it with Sharingan, and he can counter Amaterasu.

He should perceive it given the fact summoning Hachibi has been noted to take a lot of strength/chakra [

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]. He predicts a build up in chakra and fires off Amateratsu continuously like he did against Kabuto. Knowing of Bee's ability to use tentacles as a means of switching bodies, he can simply fire Amateratsu's at Bee's mouth/tentacles/limbs/body which should disable him from using TBB in the improbable case he switches with a tail. Not to mention even if Bee comes out of the tentacle somehow alive, he is highly vulnerable to an Enton arrow if he goes into BM or remains in base, since it will incinerate the Hachibi from inside out and force him to repeat the cycle of "scream in agony since I can't fire off TBB like zis."

That Enton was the same size as Gamakichi (As it was the same size as the COFRS), who is the same size as a Bijuu, so something half that size isn't going to be far larger than the Hachibi, it'll be half the size of a Bijuu, thus half the size of Hachibi. If we are referring to this one and not the one Naruto and Sasuke first used, then you are still wrong since half of that isn't far larger than the Hachibi either.

Only because that was the visible flame doesn't imply that that it is the flame which occurs after contact. Similar to when it burned Zetsu, it was a small size but expanded when it made contact with an entity. Same applies here, it's the size of Hachbi initially, but once it makes contact, it can reach sizes as large as half the Juubi, which is vastly larger than the Hachibi. More so, it was the size length and width wise, which means it's far larger than the Hachibi with or without Futon amplification. Not to mention, Sasuke can exert a greater amount of chakra to continuously spawn Amateratsu.

That just means B will have a harder time with him, and that Sasuke was the toughest guy he ever fought. Had he said something like, that was close, I guess you'd have a point.

Fair enough. Just wanted to point that out for any Minato fanboys reading.

 

[Icelerate]

Rofl, this dude...

Hey you know what? A needle stab has force concentrated into a tiny point so it has a better chance piercing through susanoo compared to TBB because TBB spreads out its energy in a 3D sphere whereas the needle concentrates energy into a single point.

 

[I'm stupid real stupid]

EMS Sasuke = BSM Naruto > Killer Bee. Sasuke wins.

Lol nope
BSM Shits on EMS

OT : Sasuke wins