[VS] Kakazu, Kisame, Itachi Vs. 6 Paths of Pain

[ItachiStyle]

I've told you this before:

When people do these fights, unless otherwise specified, I assume they're talking about these characters in their prime. I certainly don't assume when someone says A v.s Kisame that A is missing an arm, or that Kisame doesn't have his sword anymore because Bee took it. These problems arise all the time, for instance in a fight of Danzo v.s Shi Sui... you'd assume they both have his eye, just like Madara v.s Nagato poses that problem. These are hypothetical fights after all.

Itachi in his prime has Shi Sui's eye in a crow, waiting for him to use it. That means he's got it, unless specified in the OP as not having it (much like many OP's ask the posters to assume Danzo can't use Koto). Since he has it, Nagato is boned.

 

[Penguin]

So? Jiraiya still can't get past Susanoo, can't dodge Amaterasu, and he is still susceptible to Tsukuyomi, though having the Elders with him who can sense chakra will help him in that area.

Sage Mode Jiraiya would beat Itachi before Itachi goes into Susano'o. Itachi never goes into Susano'o as soon as the fight starts. It would deplete his rather crappy chakra reserves.

 

[Penguin]

I've told you this before:

He cannot use KA. Itachi wouldn't use it in this fight because he was going to use it on Saskue.

 

[Edo Odin]

It is obvious that Itachi wins if he has Shisui's eye, it's an automatic OHKO, hence why it's almost never included in debates, since there's really nothing to actually, well, debate about...:|

 

[KidGamer65]

Sage Mode Jiraiya would beat Itachi before Itachi goes into Susano'o. Itachi never goes into Susano'o as soon as the fight starts. It would deplete his rather crappy chakra reserves.

Susanoo isn't needed. 1 Amaterasu and its over.

 

[ItachiStyle]

As the opening poster you can feel free to gimp Itachi by taking away Shi Sui's eye. People do it for Danzo all the time. However since you haven't specified it in your OP, I'm assuming he's got it.

Even without it, Itachi probably solos.

 

[ItachiStyle]

It is obvious that Itachi wins if he has Shisui's eye, it's an automatic OHKO, hence why it's almost never included in debates, since there's really nothing to actually, well, debate about...:|

There are ways around Koto:

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[OnPoint]

Kotoamatsukami isn't working on a path controlled by an external source. It's a dead body controlled only by Nagato, who watches through the security-camera like realms. The chakra from that eye isn't making its way all the way to Nagato's brain.

 

[ItachiStyle]

Kotoamatsukami isn't working on a path controlled by an external source. It's a dead body controlled only by Nagato, who watches through the security-camera like realms. The chakra from that eye isn't making its way all the way to Nagato's brain.

That's like saying Koto won't work on Edo Tensei, because they're dead bodies being controlled by an external source... except it did. It just breaks the contact between them, and gives new instructions to God Pain in the form of a genjutsu that overwrites the previous instructions. R-establishing control via the chakra connection can't be done, since Kabuto couldn't do it either.

 

[Penguin]

yeah, going by that logic, samehada belongs to bee now, so we should never make versus-thread with kisame equipped with samehada?
itachi can summon the crow and use KA , unless the OP restricts it.




he still have nothing to harm itachi with, let alone countring itachi's moves from amaterasu, tsukyomi and susanoo.

He has alot of moves to harm Itachi with.

Fighting Tongue Slash (cuts through metal)
Sage Art: Goemon
Sage Art: Frog Call (Stuns opponents) + Relativly any attack
Sage Art: Wind Release Dust Cloud (Blinds opponents view [big enouh to hide Gamabunta]) + Fighting Tongue Bind + Fighting Tongue Slash
Virtually any Rasaengan

 

[Penguin]

That's like saying Koto won't work on Edo Tensei, because they're dead bodies being controlled by an external source... except it did. It just breaks the contact between them, and gives new instructions to God Pain in the form of a genjutsu that overwrites the previous instructions. R-establishing control via the chakra connection can't be done, since Kabuto couldn't do it either.

Ok, my bad. KA is restricted.

 

[ItachiStyle]

Jiraiya v.s Itachi has been done before. Itachi wins, Sage mode or not... save it for one of those threads, there's enough of them.

 

[ItachiStyle]

Without Koto team Itachi still wins, though the others are still useless probably. With all the characters bloodlusted the first thing God Pain does is to devasate the arena with his village destroying tech. That takes out Kakuzu (dead) and Kisame (dead probably), unless Itachi shields them behind his Susanoo and Yata Mirror maybe. After that God Pain is exhausted (because he is limited in how often he can use such techs far more than Nagato), and Itachi has no problem picking off the 6 Pains (who have no God Pain techs to help them). He can seal and Ammy them accordingly, and a single genjutsu mind rapes all 6 of them at once (and Nagato, and the summons). Horrible match up. Nagato by himself would have been tougher if you were going to take Chibaka Tensei away.

 

[OnPoint]

That's like saying Koto won't work on Edo Tensei, because they're dead bodies being controlled by an external source... except it did. It just breaks the contact between them, and gives new instructions to God Pain in the form of a genjutsu that overwrites the previous instructions. R-establishing control via the chakra connection can't be done, since Kabuto couldn't do it either.

No, because Edo summons are perfectly capable of acting on their own. They don't need to be bound to a controller or someone who makes them tick. Tendo cannot. Tendo is nothing more than a puppet. It cannot betray Nagato because it can't even move without him pumping his chakra through its body. 'Kill the other paths'. What's it going to do? Move by itself and kill 'em? It can't, it's just a dead body. The only way such a Genjutsu could work is if it controlled the controller; if it reached Nagato. But chakra can't jump from the realms and capture him in the illusion. Only chakra from the chakra receivers can make the leap. Otherwise Nagato himself would've turned to stone when Gakidō overdosed on Senjutsu chakra. No surprise, he didn't.

 

[Penguin]

lol, you stated that itachi won't start with susanoo and you're expeting jiraiya to start with SM and summoning the sage toads?
itachi will just trap him in the illusion right before the match even starts ,burn him to death with amaterasu or get him with kurasu bunshins +explosive bunshins combos.

Yes. I stated Jiraiya (Sage Mode) is better than Itachi. Shima and Fukasaku can help him break out of a genjutsu. What is explosive bunshin?

 

[Penguin]

Without Koto team Itachi still wins, though the others are still useless probably. With all the characters bloodlusted the first thing God Pain does is to devasate the arena with his village destroying tech. That takes out Kakuzu (dead) and Kisame (dead probably), unless Itachi shields them behind his Susanoo and Yata Mirror maybe. After that God Pain is exhausted (because he is limited in how often he can use such techs far more than Nagato), and Itachi has no problem picking off the 6 Pains (who have no God Pain techs to help them). He can seal and Ammy them accordingly, and a single genjutsu mind rapes all 6 of them at once (and Nagato, and the summons). Horrible match up. Nagato by himself would have been tougher if you were going to take Chibaka Tensei away.

First off, the "village destroy tech" is restricted. Itachi cannot solo them. His eyesight would be horendous after Amataseru spamms and Susano'o.

 

[Edo Odin]

No, because Edo summons are perfectly capable of acting on their own. They don't need to be bound to a controller or someone who makes them tick. Tendo cannot. Tendo is nothing more than a puppet. It cannot betray Nagato because it can't even move without him pumping his chakra through its body. 'Kill the other paths'. What's it going to do? Move by itself and kill 'em? It can't, it's just a dead body. The only way such a Genjutsu could work is if it controlled the controller; if it reached Nagato. But chakra can't jump from the realms and capture him in the illusion. Only chakra from the chakra receivers can make the leap. Otherwise Nagato himself would've turned to stone when Gakidō overdosed on Senjutsu chakra. No surprise, he didn't.

I actually never thought of that...you really have a point O_O

 

[ItachiStyle]

No, because Edo summons are perfectly capable of acting on their own. They don't need to be bound to a controller or someone who makes them tick. Tendo cannot. Tendo is nothing more than a puppet. It cannot betray Nagato because it can't even move without him pumping his chakra through its body. 'Kill the other paths'. What's it going to do? Move by itself and kill 'em? It can't, it's just a dead body. The only way such a Genjutsu could work is if it controlled the controller; if it reached Nagato. But chakra can't jump from the realms and capture him in the illusion. Only chakra from the chakra receivers can make the leap. Otherwise Nagato himself would've turned to stone when Gakidō overdosed on Senjutsu chakra. No surprise, he didn't.

The Edo's don't have to be able to act on their own. Itachi didn't get freed from the Edo Tensei because he got his own personality back, he got freed because Koto overlaid another genjutsu over the top of it, which instructed him to "protect Konoha" instead of listening to the instructions Kabuto was trying to give. His own personality happened to agree with these instructions, but it wasn't like a contract seal, it was a new set of instructions that overwrote the old ones, and couldn't be undone long distance via Kabuto's normal chakra connection with his edo's.

I disagree it's "a puppet" anymore than an edo can be (and the Koto would have worked on an edo irrespective of whether Kabuto took their personality), indeed we see Obito using the edo's as his 6 paths, so they're portrayed as functioning quite similarly with personalities off. I do agree that without Nagato's chakra, the path will stop working... but by the time he realises what's happened the God Pain will have turned on the others, and even if he cuts off his power supply in time that just takes God Pain out of the fight, and the fight is over. I see no evidence the genjutsu layered on top has dispersed, it'll still be there, and meantime Itachi can destroy the now helpless body anyhow.

 

[ItachiStyle]

First off, the "village destroy tech" is restricted. Itachi cannot solo them. His eyesight would be horendous after Amataseru spamms and Susano'o.

I thought only Planetary Destruction was off... now large scale Chibaka Tensei is off too? Pain is utterly boned. Healthy Itachi is going to take a while before he runs out of chakra, and that'll be plenty of time to finish these guys off.

 

[OnPoint]

The Edo's don't have to be able to act on their own. Itachi didn't get freed from the Edo Tensei because he got his own personality back, he got freed because Koto overlaid another genjutsu over the top of it, which instructed him to "protect Konoha" instead of listening to the instructions Kabuto was trying to give. His own personality happened to agree with these instructions, but it wasn't like a contract seal, it was a new set of instructions that overwrote the old ones, and couldn't be undone long distance via Kabuto's normal chakra connection with his edo's.

It's not about 'having' to act on their own. It's about having the potential to do so. The Pein Rikudō cannot act on their own, period. Itachi's use of Kotoamatsukami freed him from Kabuto's control - he was just fortunate that he did not need to rely on this control in order to operate or act. It's not like Kabuto had to control Itachi's every move in order to make him function (well he did, but only to make him fight against his will). He could've easily released his control and Itachi would've gone frolicking in the flowers without a care in the world.

I disagree it's "a puppet" anymore than an edo can be (and the Koto would have worked on an edo irrespective of whether Kabuto took their personality), indeed we see Obito using the edo's as his 6 paths, so they're portrayed as functioning quite similarly with personalities off. I do agree that without Nagato's chakra, the path will stop working... but by the time he realises what's happened the God Pain will have turned on the others, and even if he cuts off his power supply in time that just takes God Pain out of the fight, and the fight is over. I see no evidence the genjutsu layered on top has dispersed, it'll still be there, and meantime Itachi can destroy the now helpless body anyhow.

The realms have no personalities. They have no voice. They have no thoughts. They can't feel pain. They can't be subjected to mental tortue. Only Nagato has or is susceptible to these things. The Pein Rikudō are nothing more than dead bodies being used by Nagato, able to be replaced at will. They're just a Jutsu, stemming from Gedō (Outer Path) and using the Rikudō no Jutsu. In fact, there is no major difference between the way that the 6 paths are used and Sasori's use of the Sandaime Kazekage puppet, for example. They can't act on their own, because they're dead; lifeless. There is no path which can simply 'betray Nagato'. It's like saying a kid's toy can suddenly spring to life and move without the kid moving its limbs. It's an impossibility.