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Why are you implying that Karin's and Muu's techniques work exactly the same? Sharingan would see Karin fine, nobody ever challenged this.
There can't be color to something that's invisible.
[VS] Kakashi vs Muu
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Why are you implying that Karin's and Muu's techniques work exactly the same? Sharingan would see Karin fine, nobody ever challenged this.
Curse Mark
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"Thus the same thing applies to Muu"
Nigga? Really? Wow. Look, if you're on to something here I want to know. I don't know if it can or can't see Muu so if you've discovered something about it from research then please share it so we can properly rank Muu.
BUT This isn't 't it, my nigga. No. This has nothing to do with Muus jutsu whatsoever. You took Karins jutsu and applied it's mechanics to Muu based one absolutely nothing.
What the hell?.. Are you going to act like you weren't the one who always compared Karin's chakra suppression and even gave the definition of suppression as a means of saying Mu could do the same? The burden of proof is on you to tell me why Sharingan can't see him, because right now it can. Sharingan only sees Karin by your previous argument because she has form, without the form, by your argument, she'd have been invisible too. Good thing form is irrelevant to the Sharingan;
.......He's invisible because he's reflecting light around him. Sharingan ignores light when there's chakra that the Sharingan can see. Just like Sasuke could ignore the light being reflected from his arms and see the chakra
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, just like Sasuke could ignore the light reflected by the ground and see the chakra
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, just like he could see through different parts of the cave where light should've been preventing him from seeing the chakra behind obstacles, but it didn't
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. Literally the only argument was somebody making the claim that erasing chakra signature was a possibility because Karin did it, but now it's just a baseless unsubstantiated suggestion. Sharingan sees the chakra in his body just fine because it ignores the light reflection.I did it because that was the only argument I've read that was decent regarding Mu. 0 other arguments possible for Mu, unless you have 0 which I don't know of. In the case you do, go ahead and tell me why the Sharingan would be useless against him seeing how his chakra has color and thus the Sharingan sees him just fine. Only time I conceded was when Ej made me realise Sharingan won't ignore light if there's no chakra to see like the Byakugan would. But seeing how his chakra has color, he's an easily perceived target.
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Kakashi easily defeats Mu with long range Kamui if they start far from each other.
If they start close, Mu doesn't have even time to create Jinton. Kakashi warps him with Kamui, or dashes at him with Raikiri: Mu can't evade Kakashi's thrust since Kakashi is faster than him, and also has Sharingan precognition, and can also preempt Mu's movement and extend Raikiri in Raijuu Tsuiga; Mu also can't defend, since if he raises a Doton defense Kakashi's Raikiri will easily pierce it. If Mu saves himself from death with his doubling ninjutsu, well in first place
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; Kakashi's usage of long range Kamui is much faster, so Kakashi can oneshot the Tsuchikage before he can become invisible.If they start close, Mu doesn't have even time to create Jinton. Kakashi warps him with Kamui, or dashes at him with Raikiri: Mu can't evade Kakashi's thrust since Kakashi is faster than him, and also has Sharingan precognition, and can also preempt Mu's movement and extend Raikiri in Raijuu Tsuiga; Mu also can't defend, since if he raises a Doton defense Kakashi's Raikiri will easily pierce it. If Mu saves himself from death with his doubling ninjutsu, well in first place
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, he will notice it, you can see how Naruto even in KCM didn't notice that they Obito's mask, while Kakashi did notice it easily. Also the doubled body can't even use Jinton, it will be child's play for Kakashi.
BenjerminGaye
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EXPOSED!!!
I'm weak. Yo. Real talk. Where did this savage come from?!
This ain't the apex I knew....
Who hurt you?
KidGamer65
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Smh Apex, no. The point of me bringing up Karin in my previous argument is to prove that Kabuto's statement on Muu having no form and no chakra has relevancy. This is literally how our last conversation went down:
Me: Kabuto said Muu has no form or chakra, so sharingan can't see him.
You: If a ninja actually had no chakra he'd be dead, so we can ignore that statement.
Me: What Kabuto meant is that Muu supresses his chakra similar to how Karin does. So you can't ignore the statement.
The chakra supression itself is not the reason why sharingan can't see Muu. The fact that he has no visible form is the reason. Matter of fact, I'll just link you to my thread so you can see for yourself exactly why I brought her up.
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. "That doesn't mean we have to take Kabuto's statement literally, because if someone actually had no chakra they'd be dead. For example, a comparison can be drawn to Karin's ability."Explain to me how the burden of proof is on me again? :lol since you seem to looooooooove digging up past quotes from nearly a year ago like they hold any relevance, I'll just do the same to you...
The only new piece of evidence you brought to the table was a scan that indicates that chakra being given off is a natural occurence, which only proves that sharingan would be able to see Karin when she suppresses her chakra.
Stop. This argument has been proven wrong. Sharingan does not ignore light when there's chakra for the sharingan to see. In all the examples you posted that was visible chakra. Being able to see through things is different from seeing something that's actually invisible. X-Rays in real life see through human skin and tissue through compressed light waves but don't ignore the very principles of light. You'd have to be joking if you really believe that Kishimoto thought this manga through to the point where he recognizes the fact that the human eye only sees light which is being reflected off a surface. If sharingan actually ignored light when there's chakra that the sharingan can see like you're saying,
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. Now let's take a minute and look at how similar DBC is to the jutsu which canonically deceived sharingan.Konan's camouflage jutsu:
DBC ➡⬇ By bending the surrounding light with water, the user can pretend not to be there. The mechanics are similar to optical camouflage.
PPOGT ➡ So thanks to Saist's better scans I could finally read Konan's Paper Ocean (or Paper Emissary) technique properly. So some clarifications. Konan doesn't turn the Water into Explosive tags, rather it's just that she can camouflage her paper as a variety of things, and the camouflage is so good that even Sharingan is deceived by it (hence Obito not noticing he was standing on a sea of explosive tags). It's also said that escape from the jutsu is impossible even with Obito's Space-Time ninjutsu
PPOGT ➡ So thanks to Saist's better scans I could finally read Konan's Paper Ocean (or Paper Emissary) technique properly. So some clarifications. Konan doesn't turn the Water into Explosive tags, rather it's just that she can camouflage her paper as a variety of things, and the camouflage is so good that even Sharingan is deceived by it (hence Obito not noticing he was standing on a sea of explosive tags). It's also said that escape from the jutsu is impossible even with Obito's Space-Time ninjutsu
Muu's invisibility jutsu:
Using Water Vapor to bend light into a prism, any solid matter's and shape is changed and creates a phantom image (?....this line is extremely confusing, so I may have this wrong). The jutsu strong point is it's control over water....something I don't really follow again really confusing. "Mujin Aisai". By manipulating water particles ones presence is erased.
Using water to bend light, resulting in nothing being shown. Its an optic camoflage, similar to "Karakuri".
Using water to bend light, resulting in nothing being shown. Its an optic camoflage, similar to "Karakuri".
Bend. Light. With. Water. Something that's already worked against sharingan. Konan bends light with water to camouflage her paper. Sharingan did not see the chakra in the paper, so it doesn't ignore light. Muu bends light with water to turn his body invisible. His chakra is part of his body. Therefore Sharingan won't see his chakra.
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BenjerminGaye
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BenjerminGaye
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Unless you think Konan
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through a means other than with chakra, then they do.Apex my nigga but we've been arguing about this for literally over a year now lmao.
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Yea me and Beans have been debating this back and forth for ageeesss. I'm pretty sure this is the last needed debate though.
Second of all, horrendous out of context quote you dug up. At the time I had to prove why the Sharingan would be able to see Mu after I was convinced by EJ that the Sharingan only ignores light when there's chakra presence. Now that I realised there IS a chakra presence, the burden of proof is no longer on me since YOU'RE the one who needs to prove why the Sharingan WOULDN'T see him despite it ignoring light. Only reason I dug it up is because you yourself stated that you've never challenged that notion. Obviously I brought it to you so you could first hand realise how wrong that statement was.
It does not see chakra, it sees the person's body. When the Sharingan is activated in order to see chakra, aka like this;
Notice how each time the Sharingan is ALREADY activated, but Kishi depicts the Sharingan being 'activated' by both eyes being shown with the marks around them. Sharingan does not always see chakra, as a default the Sharingan sees the person as he is and has the pre-cog. When it's further activated it can see the color of chakra. If Kakashi's opponent disappears in front of him then he'll obviously be using the Sharingan's ability to see chakra in the same way he's already experienced his fellow teammate Obito do so. On the other hand, Obito vs Konan had absolutely no reason to activate the chakra perception when he was only up against paper bombs and papers.
LMFAO. The burden of proof is on you to tell me why Mu's camouflage would hide him when the Sharingan has already seen through a camouflage technique which bends light around the user.
Second of all, horrendous out of context quote you dug up. At the time I had to prove why the Sharingan would be able to see Mu after I was convinced by EJ that the Sharingan only ignores light when there's chakra presence. Now that I realised there IS a chakra presence, the burden of proof is no longer on me since YOU'RE the one who needs to prove why the Sharingan WOULDN'T see him despite it ignoring light. Only reason I dug it up is because you yourself stated that you've never challenged that notion. Obviously I brought it to you so you could first hand realise how wrong that statement was.
LOOOOOL. WTF BRO. I just brought you FOUR occasions of the Sharingan ignoring light. The bold man, you're completely wrong. Do you even know how our eyes perceive in the first place?... Light reflects off of an object, and if we look towards that location, the light enters the eye and we see that object. When Sasuke looked at the ground, the light being reflected by the ground entered his eye and he wouldn't ONLY seen the ground. Yet he saw the chakra beneath it in Deidara's bomb, thus he IGNORED the light. It's as simple as that. Stop grasping at straws, light reflection works in one way and one way only. Mu reflects light around him so that the person looking at him does not have the light reflected onto his eyes. But since the Sharingan IGNORES light it's irrelevant.
This would be right if you knew how the Sharingan works. The Sharingan whilst activated sees like this;
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It does not see chakra, it sees the person's body. When the Sharingan is activated in order to see chakra, aka like this;
You must be registered for see images
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Notice how each time the Sharingan is ALREADY activated, but Kishi depicts the Sharingan being 'activated' by both eyes being shown with the marks around them. Sharingan does not always see chakra, as a default the Sharingan sees the person as he is and has the pre-cog. When it's further activated it can see the color of chakra. If Kakashi's opponent disappears in front of him then he'll obviously be using the Sharingan's ability to see chakra in the same way he's already experienced his fellow teammate Obito do so. On the other hand, Obito vs Konan had absolutely no reason to activate the chakra perception when he was only up against paper bombs and papers.
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