[Discussion] Kakashi the NOT copy ninja

[chopstickchakra]

Ok, so I made a thread along these lines a few months back but never really got an answer that sat too well and after rewatching/reading some of part 1 I believe I have finally found my answers.

First I would like to say that it is my belief that Kakashi possesses each chakra nature except for Wind. I can't exactly recall him using earth jutsus but I'm sure he has, but we know he can do fire style, water style and lightning style. Some people claim he only has lightning and water and he uses his "copying" ability to produce the other chakra natures. That doesn't sound plausible(despite it being a cartoon and anything can happen) but if it's true why didn't he help Naruto rather than send him to Asuma.

My original question about kakashi was, since everyone was telling me any sharingan can "copy" an enemy's jutsu, what makes Kakashi so special as a "copy" ninja? Then I noticed something, Itachi, Madara, Sasuke nor Obito(whose eye Kakashi has) has been shown "copying" an opponents jutsu. The closest we have seen is Sasuke replicate lee's Taijutsu speed but naruto copied Sasuke and created the Uzumaki barrage based off the Lion Barrage, so copying taijutsu doesn't cut it.

It wasn't until I was re-watching the Zabuza episodes that I saw something I(and a LOT of people seemed to miss or forgot) Kakashi wasn't copying his enemies jutsus he was hypnotizing them into performing the jutsu he wanted them to. I know some won't believe me so go read Chapter 26 "the sharingan crumbles" page 14-15(sorry still haven't figured out how to get pics in here) Now this information I feel solidifies my first claim that Kakashi has 4 chakra natures, because if he is selecting the jutsu for his enemy to perform he must also possess the ability to do that jutsu. In other words he couldn't "copy" Zabuza's water dragon jutsu if he did not possess water nature chakra.

I know this might sound obvious to some but i was on a Naruto game and another player just wasn't hearing it. He said Kakashi could copy an opponents chakra nature and even said if he had to he could copy naruto's wind nature and do rasenshuriken(since Kakashi knows Rasengan) < his words not mine.

Let me know what you all think.

Edit: Also people are saying he isn't an Uchiha but if only Uchiha can enable the sharingan, even if he got it from Obito kakashi'd still need uchiha DNA to use it, so somewhere in his lineage IS uchiha.

 

[choft]

Kakashi can't use fire. Manga never showed this.

 

[freaks99]

no. kakashi copy ninja

 

[chopstickchakra]

Kakashi can't use fire. Manga never showed this.

It's in the animes and games, so close enough kishi gets creative control over those you think he'd just let something like that be entered for no reason do you.

 

[chopstickchakra]

no. kakashi copy ninja

You obviously didn't go read the manga pages where Kishi states outright through Zabuza that Kakashi is hypnotizing his enemies to perform the jutsu he chooses them to do.

 

[choft]

It's in the animes and games, so close enough kishi gets creative control over those you think he'd just let something like that be entered for no reason do you.

Yes, I do. When a pirate can beat Naruto who had already beaten Pain, and when Kiba can destroy 3 Rashoman Gates which a 4 tailed Kyuubi struggled to do, I believe Kishi has little input to the anime.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Yes, I do. When a pirate can beat Naruto who had already beaten Pain, and when Kiba can destroy 3 Rashoman Gates which a 4 tailed Kyuubi struggled to do, I believe Kishi has little input to the anime.

OK so the fire jutsu may not be manga but zabuza explaining how kakashi hypnotizes his enemy is Manga.

 

[-immortal-]

no..he is a Copy Ninja

 

[choft]

OK so the fire jutsu may not be manga but zabuza explaining how kakashi hypnotizes his enemy is Manga.

Oh yeah, I'm not arguing about that. I just wanted to point out to you that fire is not canon. =)

 

[chopstickchakra]

no..he is a Copy Ninja

You obviously can't read either, congratulations. Chapter 26 page 14-15. You're welcome.

 

[chopstickchakra]

OK so the fire jutsu may not be manga but zabuza explaining how kakashi hypnotizes his enemy is Manga.

I still get the feeling he has it though, because I'm fairly certain he has Uchiha DNA(though maybe not much) and isn't their specialty fire nature?

 

[Whitefang0908]

I still get the feeling he has it though, because I'm fairly certain he has Uchiha DNA(though maybe not much) and isn't their specialty fire nature?

Yeah. But there is no proof that Kakashi is related to the Uchiha. Oh and when obito gave his eye, the sharingan was already activated. Which Kakashi can use it but not long enought because he is not an UCHIHA. So if Kakashi has Uchiha DNA, then he can deactivate his sharingan. But he can't.

 

[Phoenix110]

What rubbish!!!!! According to what i've read and seen the sharingan is able to copy jutsus,it only depends on d user.Someone like kakashi for example has the ability to mostly jutsus and that's why he's d copy ninja besides If he doesn't copy jutsus why call him "d ninja that has copied a thousand jutsus" ur theory or whatever it is is rubbish

 

[BlacLord™]

Fire was anime only and he's only used Wind in one game.

 

[swagatsshovan]

Yeah he is a copy ninja.
U might not remembered but naruto movie he copied a ice style jutsu : one horned whale.
But that's not his element nature.

 

[Aertes]

Ok, the katon jutsu he used was in a cannon episode,not a filler, and it was an extetion of his fight with Itachi.Therefore I believe it's ok to count it in his nature release.
He used many doton jutsus.Hiding like a mole on their meeting test,decapitation technique with Sasuke,earth wall,tracking fang etc,etc...
Kakashi himself said that sharingan can copy all moves (except KKG) but the ninja has to have the skills to perform each jutsu the sharingan copies.Sharingan copies everything>no skills?>no jutsu.Basically seing him able to perform jutsus from many nature affinities is a proof of his high skills.
The hypnotizing part was a genjutsu Kakashi used to confuse Zabuza nothing mystical or OP about that,just a very smart move from Kakashi to confuse his opponent and make him vulnerable.
On the copy ninja part now.
Kakashi had the sharingan since he was 13.Kishi showed and implied many times that Kakashi was a genius kid,with many skills.He was also a jounin since that age which means that went on multiple A and S class missions.After a while he became ANBU too.Even more missions.
So he had the chance to face many opponents,from other countries too and copy jutsus from different affinities.Zabuza was a water expert,it's very likely that Kakashi had encounter ninjas that were really good on other nature releases too.
Kakashi is also an expert in hand seals.
Plus his intelligence and skills Kakashi found a way to use the sharingan to learn a large amount of jutsus in a little time.
Therefore, he was known as a copy ninja.
And to all those who are saying that copy doesn't mean learn and he never actually learned those jutsus,well, cry me a river, he can perform them,therefore they are part of his arsenal.
Edit: Please,never in the manga it was implied that Kakashi has Uchiha blood,until Kishi decides to soil his name with a relationship to that clan,there is no proof for that.Kakashi was praised because he was skilful enough to use sharingan without any relation to the Uchiha clan.

 

[The Western Wheel]

When you create your post, or reply, you can see a set of 6 icons... the fourth is the one you use for pictures/pages...

 

[Chicken Soop]

The Sharingan has to copy techniques because Kakashi has small chakra reserves. Why on Earth would he train and learn 1000 jutsus? Your theory is he learned 1000 jutsus and uses genjutsu to make the opponent use the technique of his choosing. This does not work because I believe a hidden mist ninja would know more Suiton than a Leaf boy. He knows just as many techniques as a skilled Suiton user without the Sharingan having any factor in it?

Also your theory implies Kakashi is a genius who learned Rasengan instead of copying it and lying to Naruto. He is genius enough to learn all these Suiton jutsus and perform them flawlessly. But not genius enough to combine Suiton with Rasengan. So he develops Raikiri.

It just makes sense. All the Uchiha in the series have been OP with their eye techs. Why would they need to use elementals at all? The sharingan doesn't copy techs... I don't buy it salesman!

 

[chopstickchakra]

Yeah. But there is no proof that Kakashi is related to the Uchiha. Oh and when obito gave his eye, the sharingan was already activated. Which Kakashi can use it but not long enought because he is not an UCHIHA. So if Kakashi has Uchiha DNA, then he can deactivate his sharingan. But he can't.

Yes Obito gave kakashi an activated Sharingan but Have we seen any evidence that Obito can copy ninjutsu? Also, I don't ahve a page for it, but I thought ONLY Uchiha could use Sharingan? Meaning even if a sharingan was implanted into, say a Haruno, that person would not be able to activate its powers.

What rubbish!!!!! According to what i've read and seen the sharingan is able to copy jutsus,it only depends on d user.Someone like kakashi for example has the ability to mostly jutsus and that's why he's d copy ninja besides If he doesn't copy jutsus why call him "d ninja that has copied a thousand jutsus" ur theory or whatever it is is rubbish

is it rubbish? So Kishimoto's own words are rubbish? did you even bother to go read the pages? Kakashi was called the copy ninja by enemies of the leaf because they did not understand his technique. Once Zabuza figured it out he explains, Kakashi uses genjutsu/hypnotism to make the enemy cast whichever jutsu Kakashi chooses and make them believe Kakashi can see the future.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Ok, the katon jutsu he used was in a cannon episode,not a filler, and it was an extetion of his fight with Itachi.Therefore I believe it's ok to count it in his nature release.
He used many doton jutsus.Hiding like a mole on their meeting test,decapitation technique with Sasuke,earth wall,tracking fang etc,etc...
Kakashi himself said that sharingan can copy all moves (except KKG) but the ninja has to have the skills to perform each jutsu the sharingan copies.Sharingan copies everything>no skills?>no jutsu.Basically seing him able to perform jutsus from many nature affinities is a proof of his high skills. <- This is one of the points I was trying to make, that just because he can "copy" movements doesn't mean he could copy jutsus unless he possessed the chakra nature of the jutsu beforehand.

The hypnotizing part was a genjutsu Kakashi used to confuse Zabuza nothing mystical or OP about that,just a very smart move from Kakashi to confuse his opponent and make him vulnerable. <- The way Zabuza explains it in the manga though portrays it as people misinterpretting Kakashi's powers since at that time, according to Kakashi, Zabuza was the first person to see it a 2nd time in battle. People probably heard/saw from a far what he did and mis-identified it to their partners. So what people thought they saw as copying in an instant was really a genjutsu battle. Numerous things have been ret-conned in this Manga just because it said it once doesn't mean it holds true, Obito told everyone he was Madara that wasn't true/Naruto told Itachi Planetary Devastation was unavoidable that was untrue and called out within 20 seconds after saying it lol. Just because kakashi described himself as a "copy ninja" in front of his new students to sound cool doesn't make it true, how many lies have we seen in this story so far.


Edit: Please,never in the manga it was implied that Kakashi has Uchiha blood,until Kishi decides to soil his name with a relationship to that clan,there is no proof for that.Kakashi was praised because he was skilful enough to use sharingan without any relation to the Uchiha clan.

Didn't the manga state somewhere that only Uchiha could use sharingan? I know it was activated when implanted but without the dna the new body shouldn't be able to activate any techniques of it. It'd be the same as if Obito put his eye into a pure blood Haruno,
Since there is no lineage between them and hashirama said Sharingan are activated by "special" chakra the uchiha release after a trauma. If they're "born" from this special chakra than it stands to reason this same special chakra would be needed for the utilization of the gift from the special chakra.

The Sharingan has to copy techniques because Kakashi has small chakra reserves. Why on Earth would he train and learn 1000 jutsus? Your theory is he learned 1000 jutsus and uses genjutsu to make the opponent use the technique of his choosing. This does not work because I believe a hidden mist ninja would know more Suiton than a Leaf boy. He knows just as many techniques as a skilled Suiton user without the Sharingan having any factor in it?

Also your theory implies Kakashi is a genius who learned Rasengan instead of copying it and lying to Naruto. He is genius enough to learn all these Suiton jutsus and perform them flawlessly. But not genius enough to combine Suiton with Rasengan. So he develops Raikiri.

It just makes sense. All the Uchiha in the series have been OP with their eye techs. Why would they need to use elementals at all? The sharingan doesn't copy techs... I don't buy it salesman!

Are you serious? Why would Itachi have Amaterasu the strongest blaze(i think) release then? Why would Sasuke have Kirin?
Kishi explained it in Zabuza's speech. Kakashi's copy ability is a combination of a perceptive eyes that let him follow his enemies movements that unnerves them then he casts a genjutsu/hypnotism to make them feel like they're seeing things and breaking down mentally then he has them perform the jutsu he has chosen to completely mind**** them. Also I never said he learned all those jutsu's what I said was that he has those 4 nature types and they don't result in his "copy" technique, kakashi could have used water dragon jutsu regardless of his sharingan.