Kaguya's Battle Tactics Re-Examined!

ninjarasengan · Jul 7, 2015

Does Kaguya know how to fight? Is she really brainless in battle?

Kaguya's tactics...

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Realizing that Naruto and Sasuke have Yin Yang seals and are in such close proximity that they could've sealed her instantly by touching her...she creates space by tossing them away.

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After avoiding the immediate danger she activates her Byakugan to access the situation.

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She lowers her opponents guard

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Only to immediately go for a sure kill for those who can't fly

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She takes the chance while Naruto is distracted saving his comrades to launch her attack at him. Sasuke just got in the way.

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She observes as her opponents display more of their abilities...her goal evolves to taking back chakra.

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She overwhelms Naruto and instantly destroys Sasuke's Ps

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After setting them up she uses her portal to appear behind her recovering opponents and launches a surprise attack paralyzing them.

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Proceeds with her objective of taking back chakra

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Note how she kept them some distance from her body as she absorbed their chakra (Rikudou seals)

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Absorbed Amaterasu...efficient use of her ability

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Even when caught off guard she knew exactly which ability to use to Save herself and trap her opponents

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After trapping her opponents, she intended to accomplish her goal.

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Took evasive maneuvers at the right moment.

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She takes flak for this...but why should she disregard a good tactic? Her execution of the plan was all her though. Pure efficiency...

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Taking note of Naruto's speed...she immediately came up with a way to nullify it.

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As is becoming apparent...only problem was that she lacked intel on her opponents abilities.

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Used her Byakugan to defend effectively in CQC...creating enough space to regroup before she could be overwhelmed (tactical retreat)

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Again she gets flak for this but that is sound advice...though she was hesitant (She didn't passively take Bz's advice...she thought over it internally weighing her options) because she had a goal beyond this confrontation...so her current goal evolved again...to kill

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Selecting her most efficient ability...she proceeded to trick the clone into a pincer attack...murdering it without effort. (Too bad it wasn't the real Naruto)

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Again, efficient use of her abilities against a crowd of opponents. Quickly finishing the opponent while she has some space...so she uses her hair and removes the threat of being sealed (at least in theory)

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To suppress both of her opponents instantly, she bring them to the Gravity dimension (note she was trying to conserve her Chakra before...but now she is making a sacrifice to get rid of a problem)

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She intended to combine Gravity to pin them down and ash bone to finish them.

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And it would have worked if not for those pesky bystanders.

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Remember that thing about conserving chakra? Well, the effects of not conserving chakra appear...

Analyzing what went wrong...she immediately came up with a solution.

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Using her immortality to her advantage and nuke everything...immediately responds to Kakashi trying to use Susanoo to sneak attack her from behind with ash bones...would have worked, had he opponent not gained a new ability)

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In a desperate situation...she remained calm analyzed her opponents realizing both were the same and attempted to execute one of the seal bearers with use of her portals ash bones and even her severed arm(good tactic...but Kamui got in the way)

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She thought over the situation and realized the Ice dimension was bad because her opponents already experienced and would be prepared to escape...so she'd pointlessly waste her chakra again.(Here people might mention Acid dimension...but we don't really know about it, if it is similar to the lave dimension, then everyone could just fly over the Sea of acid...Gravity is out because of Kamui snipe which she just watched foil her plan.

So she isn't brainless/lacking battle tactics like people claim...her problem is simple.

Arrogant villain syndrome and she isn't the only character guilty of this in Naruto or even Shounen in general.

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This foreshadowed...

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This...

Sasori · Jul 7, 2015

Guy says re examined just gives us every panel kaguya has been in

Wowcha · Jul 7, 2015

Well you wrote a lot there

Obito the supreme jin · Jul 7, 2015

Nice analysis of the last villain that appeared in the series.

Kaneki Kun · Jul 7, 2015

Lord Madara still solos.

Umari Senju · Jul 7, 2015

Kaneki Kun said:
Lord Madara still solos.

i agree.

OT: Do you know why most people prefer Madara to Kaguya? It isn't so much that she is a brainless chakra sucking monster of a rabbit goddess.

It's that she was introduced out of nowhere at the end of the Manga. Had she been foreshadowed and mentioned like Madara was-or even if Black Zetsu acquiesced to not being Madara's will and more of an old mysterious advisor to Madara aiding him in his goal all along while having his own agenda-we might not have had such a hard time swallowing her appearance.

"all chakra belongs to me" is a very bland and contrived motivation for her existance. Even by Shounen standards.

Kaneki Kun · Jul 7, 2015

Umari Senju said:
i agree.

OT: Do you know why most people prefer Madara to Kaguya? It isn't so much that she is a brainless chakra sucking monster of a rabbit goddess.

It's that she was introduced out of nowhere at the end of the Manga. Had she been foreshadowed and mentioned like Madara was-or even if Black Zetsu acquiesced to not being Madara's will and more of an old mysterious advisor to Madara aiding him in his goal all along while having his own agenda-we might not have had such a hard time swallowing her appearance.

"all chakra belongs to me" is a very bland and contrived motivation for her existance. Even by Shounen standards.

Ummmm lol I didn't really ask but thank you I guess.
I have my reasons for loving Lord Madara it's not because Kaguya sucks.
Lord Madara is bliss.
Lord Madara is love.
Lord Madara is the solo God.

Umari Senju · Jul 7, 2015

Kaneki Kun said:
Ummmm lol I didn't really ask but thank you I guess.
I have my reasons for loving Lord Madara it's not because Kaguya sucks.
Lord Madara is bliss.
Lord Madara is love.
Lord Madara is the solo God.

XD only the "I agree" part was in response to your original post.

The "OT" (Other Topic) was just my 2 cents in general as it pertains to the subject matter of the thread.:flakez:

Ken Kaneki · Jul 7, 2015

And falls prey to Sexy Jutsu. What a tactician :lmao:

Seventh Sama · Jul 7, 2015

Good thread.

Umari Senju said:
i agree.

OT: Do you know why most people prefer Madara to Kaguya? It isn't so much that she is a brainless chakra sucking monster of a rabbit goddess.

It's that she was introduced out of nowhere at the end of the Manga. Had she been foreshadowed and mentioned like Madara was-or even if Black Zetsu acquiesced to not being Madara's will and more of an old mysterious advisor to Madara aiding him in his goal all along while having his own agenda-we might not have had such a hard time swallowing her appearance.

"all chakra belongs to me" is a very bland and contrived motivation for her existance. Even by Shounen standards.

That's the point tho. Her existence wasn't supposed to be known. Well something was hinted at least . Hashirama sensed something at VOTE and don't you find it weird that a peaceful sage would leave behind instructions to cast the world into an eternal genjutsu?
That wasn't her main goal. It was building an army to fight momoshiki. She wanted her chakra back so she can be at full strength when she fights him.

~Ethereal~ · Jul 7, 2015

Saso said:
Guy says re examined just gives us every panel kaguya has been in

I know!

XD

~Ethereal~ · Jul 7, 2015

This is a funny thread. XD XD

Umari Senju · Jul 7, 2015

Lord Seventh said:
Good thread.

That's the point tho. Her existence wasn't supposed to be known. Well something was hinted at least . Hashirama sensed something at VOTE and don't you find it weird that a peaceful sage would leave behind instructions to cast the world into an eternal genjutsu?
That wasn't her main goal. It was building an army to fight momoshiki. She wanted her chakra back so she can be at full strength when she fights him.

I get that. What I am saying is that even though Kaguya's existance wasn't suppose to be known. Through Black Zetsu her existance could have been foreshadowed as the entity that BZ serves. As in knowing he is answering to a higher power but to whom should have remained a mystery until Madara revealed it in the War during his fight with Hashi.

We would have known that a greater threat than Madara was present though we wouldn't have known who. And then when she was introduced it wouldn't have seemed so out of the blue.

Hashirama sensing Black ZetsuAt VOTE went over most peoples heads. Sad to say but an old banned member (SMD) called it A LONG TIME AGO before Black Zetsu's reveal was.......revealed.

Most people thought Hashirama was just looking at the sky because it started raining. Had their been a guiding hand or voice in Madara's ear her appearance wouldn't have felt so contrived.

Also we really don't know what the original tablet detailed since Black Zetsu altered it. Though it probably warned of Kaguya I will give you that.

kunde · Jul 7, 2015

She's on whole new level compared to naruto and sasuke or any other char in terms of power level, she can make anything happen. It's just that she isnt' extremely smart to use all that power she got.

Seventh Sama · Jul 7, 2015

Umari Senju said:
I get that. What I am saying is that even though Kaguya's existance wasn't suppose to be known. Through Black Zetsu her existance could have been foreshadowed as the entity that BZ serves. As in knowing he is answering to a higher power but to whom should have remained a mystery until Madara revealed it in the War during his fight with Hashi.

We would have known that a greater threat than Madara was present though we wouldn't have known who. And then when she was introduced it wouldn't have seemed so out of the blue.

Hashirama sensing Black ZetsuAt VOTE went over most peoples heads. Sad to say but an old banned member (SMD) called it A LONG TIME AGO before Black Zetsu's reveal was.......revealed.

Most people thought Hashirama was just looking at the sky because it started raining. Had their been a guiding hand or voice in Madara's ear her appearance wouldn't have felt so contrived.

Also we really don't know what the original tablet detailed since Black Zetsu altered it. Though it probably warned of Kaguya I will give you that.

That was supposed to be the plot twist however plot twists can be stale. @Bold Sage didn't know it was his own mother. He thought the Juubi was the shinju's incarnation.

People hate kaguya because they wanted to see double rinnegan JJ madara to fight. Kishi should've had Madz fight team 7 for a while and then do the switch a roo. People would've been more satisfied imo.

Umari Senju · Jul 7, 2015

Lord Seventh said:
That was supposed to be the plot twist however plot twists can be stale. @Bold Sage didn't know it was his own mother. He thought the Juubi was the shinju's incarnation.

People hate kaguya because they wanted to see double rinnegan JJ madara to fight. Kishi should've had Madz fight team 7 for a while and then do the switch a roo. People would've been more satisfied imo.

Well given Kishi's storytelling style, I think we all knew Kaguya was comming the moment Madara mentioned her. As for the twist, true enough. I agree it came off rather stale.

There probably would have been plenty of time for double rinnegan Madara to fight if they had just left out Juubi Jin Obito, and had let Kakashi beat him in the Kamui world and when Madara played his "trump card" Made him the Juubi Jin then. A few things would have happened here:

1) Madara would have been the 1st to be a Juubi Jin since Hagoromo and thus his becoming the Juubi Jin would have felt fresh scary and new. After we spent so much time with Juubi Jin Obito it just felt redundant when it was Madara's turn.

2) We could have had Madara soloing like he did and would have had plenty of chapters left to showcase double rinnegan Madara and his abilities before the activation of IT.

3) If we coupled this with what I mentioned earlier about Black Zetsu. His betrayal of Madara (The Twist) would have probably seemed less like a troll on Kishi's part.

But I cut Kishi some slack. One he was being rushed to meet deadlines and after 15 years of storytelling any story really is bound to suffer in quality. You can only keep something feeling fresh and new for so long before it starts to fall apart.

HiddenSound · Jul 7, 2015

Kaguya has so much raw power she can be braindead and still defeat anyone.

KCMNaruto · Jul 7, 2015

Awesome thread, to sum up all what was mentioned I try to split good sides of Kaguya and bad sides. NOT I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT USE OF KAGUYA LATE IN STORY AS GOOD MOVE OR NO, just her battle tactics, diversions, use of raw power and skills in general.

GOOD SIDES:

1. A lot of raw power to spend
2. Fast making decision and learning from her own mistakes
3. Hax and deadly skills
4. Quite a long time since she has fought/used her power.

BAD SIDES:

1. To much hestistant to kill threat instead of absorbing chakra
2. Understimating opponents
3. not getting any black zetsu experience of how shinobi are fighting
4. depending on Black Zetsu while he was just nuinsance.
5. letting opponent to recover at early stage of battle
6. Being power hungry decrease her efficency while she was not too much focused.
7. Spamming chakra taxing attacks too much, she would rather try to conserve it.
8. She should deal with other guys earlier so Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't be that much efficient. (PLOT INDUCED STUPIDITY)

All in all I think it was more metter of plot induced stupidity, miracles for good characters, nerfing main villain and the last most imporant to prove theme of teamwork being above greater power.

Hyuga Prodigy · Jul 7, 2015

Umari Senju said:
i agree.

OT: Do you know why most people prefer Madara to Kaguya? It isn't so much that she is a brainless chakra sucking monster of a rabbit goddess.

It's that she was introduced out of nowhere at the end of the Manga. Had she been foreshadowed and mentioned like Madara was-or even if Black Zetsu acquiesced to not being Madara's will and more of an old mysterious advisor to Madara aiding him in his goal all along while having his own agenda-we might not have had such a hard time swallowing her appearance.

"all chakra belongs to me" is a very bland and contrived motivation for her existance. Even by Shounen standards.

If Madara remained the final villain, then everything would be too predictable, Madara getting knocked out by Naruto and Sasuke would`ve been worse in my eyes. Madara being foreshadowed to be the Final Villain since the end of Part 1 would be too clitche.

Kaguya being the FV is a shock value not asspull when we`ve always expected the curses behind the sage of 6th path story and this was long introduced since Jiriaya hinted which is why Madara brought up Kaguya to learn more about the incidents, there`s a monument stone for reasons...

It`s clearly obvious after seeing Madara flashback, he was just part of the victims just like everyone else, there has to be a source of evil that drive into this mess. Of course Zetsu was watching after the clash of Naruto vs Sasuke but nobody expect him to be the one pulling the strings which ties to the whole Kaguya thing

Which is why I`m a huge fan of this whole `Mastermind`theme,

Lightbringer · Jul 7, 2015

Hyuga Prodigy said:
If Madara remained the final villain, then everything would be too predictable, Madara getting knocked out by Naruto and Sasuke would`ve been worse in my eyes. Madara being foreshadowed to be the Final Villain since the end of Part 1 would be too clitche.

Kaguya being the FV is a shock value not asspull when we`ve always expected the curses behind the sage of 6th path story and this was long introduced since Jiriaya hinted which is why Madara brought up Kaguya to learn more about the incidents, there`s a monument stone for reasons...

It`s clearly obvious after seeing Madara flashback, he was just part of the victims just like everyone else, there has to be a source of evil that drive into this mess. Of course Zetsu was watching after the clash of Naruto vs Sasuke but nobody expect him to be the one pulling the strings which ties to the whole Kaguya thing

Which is why I`m a huge fan of this whole `Mastermind`theme,

Kaguya was just shock value and poorly written.

By the end of the manga, we wanted answers to plotholes not more mysteries.

Madara had dialogue and connection with Naruto/Sasuke on a contemporary level, Kaguya didn't.

Kaguya was awful and ruined the entire series. How are you defending this?

Kaguya's Battle Tactics Re-Examined!

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