If sasuke had tried to break the sound ginjutsu by experiencing pain and failed ,then I would agree with you ,but since sasuke didn't try in the first place ,then doesn't mean that the counter which shikamaru used in part 1 is no more counter just because sasuke didn't try to use this counter
I didn't say that kabuto's sound ginjutsu is inferior ,but what I said is that it still can be countered by the same way till the manga prove the opposite
So this ginjutsu isn't beating three high/mid kage lel shinobi while part1 shikamaru broke it
Genjutsu effects all five senses or else someone with smell could have easily located the oily 2nd Mizukage. In other words, temperature based sensing is unlikely to work as well.
3rd Raikage will be hard for Kabuto to finish off while Muu has the ultimate offence that can finish Kabuto off. All that is needed here is 3rd Raikage, who will benefit if Muu gets Onoki's feats to allow him to lighten 3rd Raikage, giving him flight or increased speed.
So people say kabuto can solo the gokage ( and I am one of them ) and he still can't solo those 3 kage ?
and people still say Gokage > Edo Kage ? Wtf ?
So people say kabuto can solo the gokage ( and I am one of them ) and he still can't solo those 3 kage ?
and people still say Gokage > Edo Kage ? Wtf ?
The context never said it effects all of them it states how Genjutsu is function by using the 5 senses. If all 5 senses are effected as you stated then there is no way to break it. Gaara using touch should not have work according to you, since the Mizukage would just make him believe its there via genjutsu. Smell was never stated it wouldn't work either.
There's no difference when it comes to Bodily fluids being electrocuted. Juugo' normal body not being electrotuded by a Raiton punch doesn't mean it wont get affected by any of the nukites, all of which are penetrating attacks, and all raiton penetrating attacks (chidori, Kusanagi, Raikiri, etc..) have been numbed, which means electricity travelled through their bodies. This implies any nukite will travel through the body fluids, and end Kabuto.
Your just denying the effects of unnatural lightening. Your whole argument revolves around just because it didn't work doesn't mean it wouldn't work. Traveling through body fluids will never ever kill him, period. Nothing in the manga has shown this. Even to Suigetsu who is literally vulnerable to lightening attacks.
The context never said it effects all of them it states how Genjutsu is function by using the 5 senses. If all 5 senses are effected as you stated then there is no way to break it. Gaara using touch should not have work according to you, since the Mizukage would just make him believe its there via genjutsu. Smell was never stated it wouldn't work either.
No, because when contact is made it directly links with his own knowledge. As in, if Naruto where to release a Kage Bunshin while in the genjutsu, he would still receive the information and experiences of that bunshin. Same thing applies here, Gaara gains automatic understanding of someone making contact with the sand.
Your just denying the effects of unnatural lightening. Your whole argument revolves around just because it didn't work doesn't mean it wouldn't work. Traveling through body fluids will never ever kill him, period. Nothing in the manga has shown this. Even to Suigetsu who is literally vulnerable to lightening attacks.
No, you're just making your own scenarios which no one would ever agree on, due to their naive nature. I didn't say it would kill him, I said it would put him in a lethal position, which means he could be one shotted by Jinton at any moment. And your whole argument revolves around the raiton cloak itself not giving off any electric flow, even though the piercing raiton jutsu themselves, like Nukite, chidori, etc. have always shown electric flow. Thus, Nukite does have electric flow and natural v1 cloak doesn't, but Nukite is what is making contact with Kabuto's body initially, which means he's vulnerable to Jinton since the very beginning of the fight. And Lol, Suigetsu could no longer fight, so him not being in a lethal position is ridiculous.
No, because when contact is made it directly links with his own knowledge. As in, if Naruto where to release a Kage Bunshin while in the genjutsu, he would still receive the information and experiences of that bunshin. Same thing applies here, Gaara gains automatic understanding of someone making contact with the sand.
And that example doesn't apply to Kabuto and his snakes because? And still the context never states when under genjutsu, all of your senses are null. And there is no evidence to state Miukage nulls all senses.
No, you're just making your own scenarios which no one would ever agree on, due to their naive nature. I didn't say it would kill him, I said it would put him in a lethal position, which means he could be one shotted by Jinton at any moment. And your whole argument revolves around the raiton cloak itself not giving off any electric flow, even though the piercing raiton jutsu themselves, like Nukite, chidori, etc. have always shown electric flow. Thus, Nukite does have electric flow and natural v1 cloak doesn't, but Nukite is what is making contact with Kabuto's body initially, which means he's vulnerable to Jinton since the very beginning of the fight. And Lol, Suigetsu could no longer fight, so him not being in a lethal position is ridiculous.
Could of sworn your argument is base on if Raiton were to land, Raiton will kill him. Otherwise we shouldn't be arguing. Once again if you read my argument no one is denying an electric flow for unnatural lightening. But it very clear it doesn't consistently follow it scientifically, when you see it result in the human body, then to Suiton, and natural water.
And that example doesn't apply to Kabuto and his snakes because? And still the context never states when under genjutsu, all of your senses are null. And there is no evidence to state Miukage nulls all senses.
Why would it, since when was Kabuto's snakes's smell not part of the 5 senses? The sand making contact with someone is sensed by the sand itself, and then transferred to Gaara's knowledge directly, hence he didn't have to perceive anything. On the other hand, Kabuto's snakes have to initially sense prior to gaining knowledge of location, but the knowledge gained will be an illusion, false information to be exact. So no, it doesn't apply to the snakes. And no, your interpretation of the text is incorrect. It says it works on the '5 senses', not the 'senses'. Thus, it works on 5 senses, not purely the 'sesnses'. So no, sensors could not sense or see where he was, implying all 5 senses are affected.
Could of sworn your argument is base on if Raiton were to land, Raiton will kill him. Otherwise we shouldn't be arguing. Once again if you read my argument no one is denying an electric flow for unnatural lightening. But it very clear it doesn't consistently follow it scientifically, when you see it result in the human body, then to Suiton, and natural water.
No, my argument is based on if the third Raikage can electrocute Kabuto when liquefying or not. I have already proven he can, and fail to realise why you attempted to argue the raiton cloak being able to electrocute Kabuto when liquefied when he will be attacking with his Nukite rather than the natural raiton cloak, like Ay. And since you said liquefying would help, you stand wrong, because the only time he will liquefy is when the Raikage is using his nukite.
@Bold - thats if kabuto can locate muu, which he most likely cant, and the starting distance simply allows muu to evade all of kabutso attacks rather easily, as once an opening is created he atomises kabuto to dust,
and @EjBlack - i dont see where u are going with the whole raiton vs liquifying thing,
Why would it, since when was Kabuto's snakes's smell not part of the 5 senses? The sand making contact with someone is sensed by the sand itself, and then transferred to Gaara's knowledge directly, hence he didn't have to perceive anything. On the other hand, Kabuto's snakes have to initially sense prior to gaining knowledge of location, but the knowledge gained will be an illusion, false information to be exact. So no, it doesn't apply to the snakes. And no, your interpretation of the text is incorrect. It says it works on the '5 senses', not the 'senses'. Thus, it works on 5 senses, not purely the 'sesnses'. So no, sensors could not sense or see where he was, implying all 5 senses are affected.
No thats exactly what perceive is. He is using his chakra to physically track and feel something. Jiraya was being specific on what he is talking about. If what your saying is true then theres no way to counter genjutsu. Your statement needs to also prove by showing all genjutsu in the series doing this.
No, my argument is based on if the third Raikage can electrocute Kabuto when liquefying or not. I have already proven he can, and fail to realise why you attempted to argue the raiton cloak being able to electrocute Kabuto when liquefied when he will be attacking with his Nukite rather than the natural raiton cloak, like Ay. And since you said liquefying would help, you stand wrong, because the only time he will liquefy is when the Raikage is using his nukite.
Thats because you are still not fundamentally understand the concept between natural lightening and lightening made from chakra. The fact that the @bold part, you putting "natural" and "raiton" in the same sentence. Thats an oxymoron.
Since Kabuto is breaking down his biofuilds, instead of using suiton as a medium like Suigetsu and Hozuki clan, his body will react different then Hozuki clan, when encountering unnatural lightening. That said chakra lightening will just bullet through Kabuto without damaing any vital points to kill Kabuto. Penetrating him would be null.
No thats exactly what perceive is. He is using his chakra to physically track and feel something. Jiraya was being specific on what he is talking about. If what your saying is true then theres no way to counter genjutsu. Your statement needs to also prove by showing all genjutsu in the series doing this.
No, it isn't. The chakra bound to the sand is what is giving information to Gaara, thus he is receiving information that was perceived for him. Snakes would be attempting to obtain information through their own perceptions of heat, which would naturally fail. Incorrect, if my statement is true, then the 5 senses are affected; to an extent. Otherwise everything would be KA, but it isn't the case. Fact remains, every genjutsu wielder manipulates the 5 senses to some extent, thus the snakes trying to sniff someone out is fallacious. Someone can break out of genjutsu through Kai, if they notice the failures of the genjutsu wielder's perception diversities to the real world's. Or, the chakra flow disruption is noticed, and someone helps you externally. However, this genjutsu is continuously being imposed on anyone within the mist, so these two options don't do anything at all. Which in other words means, the only way to counter it is contact sensing in which something else perceived something and relays it to you, where you no longer have to perceive anything, or the clam is somehow disabled/killed. So no, I don't need proof because I have Jiraiya's statement, you're the one who needs proof claiming snakes are exceptions of this.
Thats because you are still not fundamentally understand the concept between natural lightening and lightening made from chakra. The fact that the @bold part, you putting "natural" and "raiton" in the same sentence. Thats an oxymoron.
The concept of natural and unnatural lightning is completely irrelevant to this topic. I have no reason in 'attempting' to understand it, because it holds no weight in this discussion. Darui had his Raiton flow through his sword and disabled Suigetsu, Sasuke had his Raiton flow through his Kusanagi variation and numbed Yamato, Third Raikage flows his Raiton through his fingers to use Nukite, thus creates an electric current like the previous two examples. Once he has an electric current via Nukite, Kabuto liquefies, as you said, and has electricity flow through his body, which would heavily disable him. Don't forget what Yamato said, creating a Raiton current through a medium (his fingers, in this case), he is also creating a current through the opponents body thus dulling their movements due to the nerve damage, or in this case, more severe damage.
Since Kabuto is breaking down his biofuilds, instead of using suiton as a medium like Suigetsu and Hozuki clan, his body will react different then Hozuki clan, when encountering unnatural lightening. That said chakra lightening will just bullet through Kabuto without damaing any vital points to kill Kabuto. Penetrating him would be null.
All biofluids conduct electricty/Raiton, so like Suigetsu, whose body also conducted Raiton through a sword, Kabuto is disabled through the Raiton flowing from Raikage's fingers. @bold, based on what? Proof or stop arguing this completely, it's getting rather irritating. Once again, @underlined, based on what? You are going by blind faith as to cling on to a failed argument. Kabuto's biofluids conduct Raiton in the same manner Suigetsu's Suiton composed body conducts Raiton. Nothing to argue here really, I can't even dumb this down further for you, so you'll have to try to go by this, without grasping at straws, please.
No, it isn't. The chakra bound to the sand is what is giving information to Gaara, thus he is receiving information that was perceived for him. Snakes would be attempting to obtain information through their own perceptions of heat, which would naturally fail. Incorrect, if my statement is true, then the 5 senses are affected; to an extent. Otherwise everything would be KA, but it isn't the case. Fact remains, every genjutsu wielder manipulates the 5 senses to some extent, thus the snakes trying to sniff someone out is fallacious. Someone can break out of genjutsu through Kai, if they notice the failures of the genjutsu wielder's perception diversities to the real world's. Or, the chakra flow disruption is noticed, and someone helps you externally. However, this genjutsu is continuously being imposed on anyone within the mist, so these two options don't do anything at all. Which in other words means, the only way to counter it is contact sensing in which something else perceived something and relays it to you, where you no longer have to perceive anything, or the clam is somehow disabled/killed. So no, I don't need proof because I have Jiraiya's statement, you're the one who needs proof claiming snakes are exceptions of this.
Your making your own conclusion up. You have no evidence to state this jutsu fools your nose. Only basing the context of Jiraya's words then adding the word "to some extend" like it suppose to mean the claim is truth. Genjutsu doesnt NOT effect all 5 senses period. We have seen it already that Hiruzen was able to track through smell from a genjutsu that implies of thinking you are blind, via bringer of darkness. Thus if the genjutsu is not meant to trap you in your mind, then its clear that you can use your other senses to perceived and counter the genjutsu. We know Hearing doesn't work, since the genjutsu mirage can talk to you, we know seeing can't work, because the mirage fools you that he is there, we know tasting is irrelevant. That leads to smell and touch. Touch was canonically used while leaves up to the case of smell, which there wasn't anyone in that field that had this skill to prove or disprove.
The concept of natural and unnatural lightning is completely irrelevant to this topic. I have no reason in 'attempting' to understand it, because it holds no weight in this discussion. Darui had his Raiton flow through his sword and disabled Suigetsu, Sasuke had his Raiton flow through his Kusanagi variation and numbed Yamato, Third Raikage flows his Raiton through his fingers to use Nukite, thus creates an electric current like the previous two examples. Once he has an electric current via Nukite, Kabuto liquefies, as you said, and has electricity flow through his body, which would heavily disable him. Don't forget what Yamato said, creating a Raiton current through a medium (his fingers, in this case), he is also creating a current through the opponents body thus dulling their movements due to the nerve damage, or in this case, more severe damage.
Your reasoning is through nerve damage, which Yamato showed no resistance of using hand seal movements to counter it. While also ignoring Orochimaru's case. While ignoring that all of Kabuto's nerves are being broken down in liquid molecules.
All biofluids conduct electricty/Raiton, so like Suigetsu, whose body also conducted Raiton through a sword, Kabuto is disabled through the Raiton flowing from Raikage's fingers. @bold, based on what? Proof or stop arguing this completely, it's getting rather irritating. Once again, @underlined, based on what? You are going by blind faith as to cling on to a failed argument. Kabuto's biofluids conduct Raiton in the same manner Suigetsu's Suiton composed body conducts Raiton. Nothing to argue here really, I can't even dumb this down further for you, so you'll have to try to go by this, without grasping at straws, please.
@Bold: I gave you proof since the first quote of Raiton vs lquification. It brought up the context of Kabuto breaking how he was able to perform this tech. Imma go by viz this time: 579pg9) "Its the ability to transform one's flesh into liquid"."to detach and separate using one's own life substance, thats why it looks like its shedding."I've applied and researched the Houki clans flesh transforming ability to this technique " ."You know him, don't you? Suigetsu."He can transform from human to water, and back to human again".
I bolded the important parts to show that Kabutos ability isn't the same exact move as Suigetsu. The context stated Kabuto is using his life substance. The context stated that its his own ability, being implied having the ability similar to Hozuki clan. The context stated Suigetsu uses water.
Your telling my premise is base on nothing then already address one example of my premise above. Then ignored the rest of the argument case. Kabuto conducting electricity from raiton will only be as effective as what everyone else experience then getting penetrated from raiton. You want to use Yamayo as a case to prove effective, fine. I will also use Yamato as a case too, able to freely move and break away.
I thought this guy was a decent debater who could concede when his arguments for his favourite characters are insufficient. Seems he's just another retard I should ignore when threads are made.
-Naruto, in Itachi's genjutsu,
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the kunai's was very real, thought the things he
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at were very real, thought what he
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was very real. That's 3/5 senses, and there's nothing implying that it is limited to these 3 senses. Note this isn't a sharingan genjutsu, but merely a finger genjutsu. More so, databook further corroborates Jiraiya's statement, by saying it affects all 5 senses.
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Your points about lightning;
-Never claimed it was nerve damage, fact remains the biofluid is weak to Raiton in the same way Suigetsu's body is weak to Raiton. Explain this or gtfo.
-Orochimaru wasn't numb? Based on what? Only because he didn't say he was numb in a speech bubble doesn't imply he wasn't numb. Flawed logic m8. I'll leave this here for your idiotic self.
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Life substance implied biofluids, which we know. Him having a liquefaction similar to Suigetsu's is only proving my point. Either way, I don't feel like putting much time into this anymore, you're too dense to understand anyways.
I thought this guy was a decent debater who could concede when his arguments for his favourite characters are insufficient. Seems he's just another retard I should ignore when threads are made.
-Naruto, in Itachi's genjutsu,
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the kunai's was very real, thought the things he
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at were very real, thought what he
You must be registered for see links
was very real. That's 3/5 senses, and there's nothing implying that it is limited to these 3 senses. Note this isn't a sharingan genjutsu, but merely a finger genjutsu. More so, databook further corroborates Jiraiya's statement, by saying it affects all 5 senses.
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[/IMG]
Your points about lightning;
-Never claimed it was nerve damage, fact remains the biofluid is weak to Raiton in the same way Suigetsu's body is weak to Raiton. Explain this or gtfo.
-Orochimaru wasn't numb? Based on what? Only because he didn't say he was numb in a speech bubble doesn't imply he wasn't numb. Flawed logic m8. I'll leave this here for your idiotic self.
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Life substance implied biofluids, which we know. Him having a liquefaction similar to Suigetsu's is only proving my point. Either way, I don't feel like putting much time into this anymore, you're too dense to understand anyways.
The irony in your post is so real. You want to use Itachi as your base evidence, claiming that its not sharingan genjutsu, like it matters, to state he counters all 5 senses Naruto perceive. But later ignored the evidence that your example still classifies its ability to trap the opponents mind[
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]. Then ignored the evidence I showed of Genjutsu that doesn't trap the mind, Hashirama's genjutsu not attacking all 5 senses, therefore your absolute claim of Genjutsu attacking all 5 senses is false. Then later want to add the word "all" to the context never mention to prove your claim, even though the claim would contradict the manga to begin with.
- You ignoring evidence to state Oroachimaru was able to move. He able to switch out of his real body, completely ignoring the electric flows that suppose to occur and paralyze the victim, electrocuted. And the fact Sasuke method was attended to put him in a subjugate position.
Completely ignoring the evidence that water is much more reactant to unnatural lightening then to body fluids, to which blood was able to split on it and not get fried, nor is the electric flow completely null opponents like Juugo, Yamato, and Orochimaru from overpowering the reactant.
