[Discussion] Kage Level Ranking

[Dtoxxdasavvyone]

I think that your revised tier is pretty accurate but I would place Naruto and Sasuke higher maybe not god tier but upper at least. There was the argument that pain had used a lot of his chakra and Naruto had knowledge of his skills and Pain had eventually captured Naruto until Hinata interveined but Pain even told Naruto that no one has ever given him that much trouble he killed five of his six paths before killing the god realm, granted Pain was going for the capture and not the kill I believe Naruto is much stronger than most give him credit for! Dude is a #@$#@$ sage ya know. Sasuke took on the Raikage and Kazekage and the mizukage so I think he could be placed higher as well I think Garra should be higher to and lets be real shall we, any of the kages should be above any of the akatsuki save for Pain and Itachi, as Kisame is not that strong to me to beat out the kages or sasori, there powerful don't get me wrong I wont say there weak just not on the current Kage level

No Kage in the series can ever be considered a push over because each village is going to go with the best of the best and with knowledge of how powerful the other villages are to some degree you have to assume that in the worst case scenario the kages would be the ultimate trump cards otherwise they would not be considered Kage.

Danzo whom is one of my least favorite is going to end up being what I thought, Uber strong and likely able to make Madara retreat after exposing his jutsu to him and maybe we'll get some Madara action for once but Danzo should be up there on the bases of him being considered Hokage as he was nominated along with Kakashi who I think people underate as well. This was in fact a great thread for a discussion and I'll be glad to recieve any feedback so feel free to respond.

A suggestion though maybe adding a few slots to god tier and placing a couple of the upper in that may be a little more accurate because I feel like there could be more Shinobi considered god tier simply because of who they are 2nd Hokage Jiraiya, whom many might disagree but there are only a handful of shinobi who could really beat him and that is why I say this and altough I believe Naruto should be in the upper of the upper I wont say god tier yet until he learns how to utilize sage mode for longer durations and develops one more chakra nature as well as displaying an array of different wind based jutsu but I do believe he is very and I mean very close Sasuke too, like it or not but the antagonist is a bad ass why els would Madara use him as a pawn.

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

If Jiraiya had known about Pain's secret he would have most like won as you said, even Pain admitted to this. You have to remember that Naruto came in after Pain had already used a tremendous amount of chakra and taken out numerous top level shinobi. On top of that Naruto had prepared for the battle by keeping two sage mode shadow clones back with the toads. Under normal circumstances he wouldn't have been able to do this. Even after this he had Naruto pinned down with chakra sticks rendering Naruto helpless. Only after interference from Hinata did Naruto escape that situation. Even still after the entire battle the real Nagato was never defeated. Naruto simply changed his mind so that he became good. Also remember that during the fight Pain had no desire to kill Naruto, he needed Naruto alive in order to extract the bijuu.

Just because Naruto is alive and Nagato is dead right now it doesn't mean that Naruto is stronger than Pain or on the same level. There are various reasons you can say Naruto is as strong as Pain.

Okay, I have to debate something with you. You quote "If Jiraiya had known about Pain's secret he would have most like won" lets tackle this. People have said that Pain at full strength/chakra would have been able to kill Naruto if he truly intended but supposedly gets defeated by Jiraiya if he knew Pain's secret. Well, how can Jiraiya who had yet to master Sage Mode be able to eliminate the six Pains when Naruto who mastered Sage Mode and has the Kyuubi supposedly gets defeated by the same six Pains at full strength/chakra? This simply makes no sense to me whatsoever.​

 

[Typhon]

Okay, I have to debate something with you. You quote "If Jiraiya had known about Pain's secret he would have most like won" lets tackle this. People have said that Pain at full strength/chakra would have been able to kill Naruto if he truly intended but supposedly gets defeated by Jiraiya if he knew Pain's secret. Well, how can Jiraiya who had yet to master Sage Mode be able to eliminate the six Pains when Naruto who mastered Sage Mode and has the Kyuubi supposedly gets defeated by the same six Pains at full strength/chakra? This simply makes no sense to me whatsoever.​

The only reason I say that is because its what Pain said after their fight. I didn't really analyze how exactly he would go about doing this. I guess you have to remember the quote about a master with a pebble could defeat a novice with a kunai. Naruto having a stronger Sage mode than Jiraiya doesn't mean Naruto Sage mode would defeat Jiraiya Sage mode. Jiraiya is still the more experienced ninja and has a wider variety of abilities than Naruto.

Heres the page where Pain says if Jiraiya knew his secret he wouldn't have won.

You must be registered for see links

Its possible that Nagato was saying that from a biased position because Jiraiya was his former teacher and he respected him, but its really all we have to go off of.

 

[Kuroi Honoo]

The only reason I say that is because its what Pain said after their fight. I didn't really analyze how exactly he would go about doing this. I guess you have to remember the quote about a master with a pebble could defeat a novice with a kunai. Naruto having a stronger Sage mode than Jiraiya doesn't mean Naruto Sage mode would defeat Jiraiya Sage mode. Jiraiya is still the more experienced ninja and has a wider variety of abilities than Naruto.

Heres the page where Pain says if Jiraiya knew his secret he wouldn't have won.

You must be registered for see links

Its possible that Nagato was saying that from a biased position because Jiraiya was his former teacher and he respected him, but its really all we have to go off of.

Okay, I do take what you said into consideration. So yes, it comes down to Pain's quote and an experienced shinobi with less power/a powerful shinobi with less experience. True, this is where Kishi laid a good debate. Was Pain being bias or did he mean what he said? That question still continues to go unanswered. ​

 

[Christyan]

xDehhhh... about the top thats FREAKING WRONG DUDE !!! the strongest should include : tobi ( uchiha madara) , even naruto because he has the strongest bijuu out there ( well exept the 10 tail bijuu WHO DOESNT EXIST TILL NOW ) and he has sage mode and first of all fuuton rasen-shuriken ... MORE ADVANCED that the 4th could develop . Even the 4th said that naruto will become stronger than him the strongest shinobi ever i might think ... so plis read the manga's , see the episodes , and then try to make the top again Just an opinion dont be angry . xd

 

[Dtoxxdasavvyone]

Okay, I do take what you said into consideration. So yes, it comes down to Pain's quote and an experienced shinobi with less power/a powerful shinobi with less experience. True, this is where Kishi laid a good debate. Was Pain being bias or did he mean what he said? That question still continues to go unanswered. ​

What up again main! I would have to go and say that Pain meant what he said, He had no idea Jiraiya was going to be this strong. If you look at it from the perspective of Pain only having the three bodies and 4th hidden Jiraiya may have won the fight by his experience but obviously that wasn't the case. I don't think for a moment that Pain didn't have the upper hand at the end of the battle, but Naruto was still able to overcome his capture whether or not he was aided by the nine tails. He eventually did defeat all six paths and realistically was quite capable of killing Nagato in his chakra bed or whatever, since he didn't elect to kill him Nagato changed sides seeing that Naruto is someone who can really change the ninja world for the better. I still don't give Naruto God tier credit because he has lots to discover about himself and his abilities still and so a high upper tier but someone please stop saying J man is not strong he before anyone else made Pain use his six paths or at least it seems that way, but he is strong and worthy of being God tier he was elected to become the Hokage at one point in time and recommended by the 3rd who wanted him as his successor but later chose Minato which is still an incredible good choice.

 

[kurowsa]

WoW xD

 

[Deidara Akatsuki]

deidara and kakuzu should be mid tier possibly...

Yeah

Orochimaru should be in the top 3, we'r talkin fully healthy when he killed the 3rd and resurected the 1,2n and nearly the 4th,

Also kisame with samehada is just very very sick.

 

[Steinbiz]

If we're talking about "KAGE" level rankings (like people that meet the criteria to be that strong) then this is my list. It's all in order too for each tier.

Upper Tier

1. -Sage of six Paths
2. -4th Hokage
3. -Pain
4. -Sage Naruto
5. -Sage Jiraiya

Middle Tier

1. -Itachi Uchiha
2. -Madara Uchiha
3. -Orochimaru
4. -Tsunade
5. -Hanzou
6. -3rd Hokage(Prime)
7. -Raikage
8. -Kisame
9. -Killer Bee

Lower Tier

1. -1st Hokage
2. -2nd Hokage
3. -Tsuchikage
4. -Kakuzu
5. -Sasori
6. -Deidara
7. -Gaara
8. -Mizukage
9. -Kabuto(with Orochimaru DNA)

Now before you guys freak out about Madara being in the middle tier, let me explain. Lately I've been thinking that maybe Madara hasn't really been as strong as we thought. Yes he's most likely still "Kage" level, but if you really think about it, he doesn't seem that powerful. Yes he has the ability to control the Kyuubi, but that just comes as a special power from his bloodline, not his actual "trained" abilities. And we've also heard that even the 1st Hokage defeated Madara, even with his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

I'm starting to believe that maybe Madara isn't really all that powerful compared to how we thought of him. Maybe his plan to control the bijuu as his army is what he aims for to get his "long lost" power back. Because Itachi and himself both stated that he is a pathetic shell of his former self.

Yell at me if you want, but this is what I'm starting to think.

 

[Steinbiz]

The only reason I say that is because its what Pain said after their fight. I didn't really analyze how exactly he would go about doing this. I guess you have to remember the quote about a master with a pebble could defeat a novice with a kunai. Naruto having a stronger Sage mode than Jiraiya doesn't mean Naruto Sage mode would defeat Jiraiya Sage mode. Jiraiya is still the more experienced ninja and has a wider variety of abilities than Naruto.

Heres the page where Pain says if Jiraiya knew his secret he wouldn't have won.

You must be registered for see links

Its possible that Nagato was saying that from a biased position because Jiraiya was his former teacher and he respected him, but its really all we have to go off of.

I have to completely agree with this. Pain did say that if Jiraiya knew his secret that he would have won. Even though Pain said that, it doesn't make it completely true. Because Naruto knew about almost every secret of Pain and he still kind of lost(with Sage mode). But then again Jiraiya has TONS more experience than Naruto, so maybe Naruto just lacked the experience to fight Pain properly.

 

[~Hasashi~]

If we're talking about "KAGE" level rankings (like people that meet the criteria to be that strong) then this is my list. It's all in order too for each tier.

Upper Tier

1. -Sage of six Paths
2. -4th Hokage
3. -Pain
4. -Sage Naruto
5. -Sage Jiraiya

Middle Tier

1. -Itachi Uchiha
2. -Madara Uchiha
3. -Orochimaru
4. -Tsunade
5. -Hanzou
6. -3rd Hokage(Prime)
7. -Raikage
8. -Kisame
9. -Killer Bee

Lower Tier

1. -1st Hokage
2. -2nd Hokage
3. -Tsuchikage
4. -Kakuzu
5. -Sasori
6. -Deidara
7. -Gaara
8. -Mizukage
9. -Kabuto(with Orochimaru DNA)

Now before you guys freak out about Madara being in the middle tier, let me explain. Lately I've been thinking that maybe Madara hasn't really been as strong as we thought. Yes he's most likely still "Kage" level, but if you really think about it, he doesn't seem that powerful. Yes he has the ability to control the Kyuubi, but that just comes as a special power from his bloodline, not his actual "trained" abilities. And we've also heard that even the 1st Hokage defeated Madara, even with his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

I'm starting to believe that maybe Madara isn't really all that powerful compared to how we thought of him. Maybe his plan to control the bijuu as his army is what he aims for to get his "long lost" power back. Because Itachi and himself both stated that he is a pathetic shell of his former self.

Yell at me if you want, but this is what I'm starting to think.

O_O WOW that is just plan wow the first and second hokage in the lower tier remember the first hokage could tame all the bijuu he fought madara at his full hight and WON plus he is one of the only people to make an element

and the second hokage was a MASTER of water thats pretty much all we know about him but i would put my bets both of them could beat itachi naruto and the first v.s. the fourth would be even

 

[Steinbiz]

O_O WOW that is just plan wow the first and second hokage in the lower tier remember the first hokage could tame all the bijuu he fought madara at his full hight and WON plus he is one of the only people to make an element

and the second hokage was a MASTER of water thats pretty much all we know about him but i would put my bets both of them could beat itachi naruto and the first v.s. the fourth would be even

yeah, that's your opinion. 1st hokage had the ability to control bijuu because of his superior wood style jutsu. but taming the bijuu doesn't even count as your OWN strength.

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

I'm bored so I decided to try and put all the Kage lvl nins we have seen in action into an orderly list.

Upper Tier:
Pein - at full power with all bodies he isn't getting touched

Uchiha Itachi - at full health (no disease, no blindness)

Namikaze Minato - said to be strongest Hokage

Sarutobi Hiruzen - strongest Kage of his time

Senju Hashirama - creator of the forest

Senju Tobirama - ocean man

Mid Tier:
Gama Sennin Jiraiya - awesome dude all around

Orochimaru (healthy)

Hoshigaki Kisame (with obedient Samehada)

Raikage (current, both arms)

Killerbee

Uzumaki Naruto

Uchiha Sasuke

Tsunade

Sasori

Lower Tier:
Kazekage Gaara

Mizukage (current)

Tsuchikage (current)

Kakashi

Danzo

Everyone else from Akatsuki not yet mentioned

I'm not sure about a lot of this. Help me put it in proper order.

Disagree with some of it

Upper Tier:
Pain
Naruto- He gave Pain a good fight, we can't say "oh" and "if", because Naruto WAS training right before he fought Pain, and thought of a spur of the moment plan to use shadow clones to make sage mode last longer, plus he may have had info on Pain throughout the last few arcs, but Pain had Part I and Part II of info from him from whatever dead corpses or Itachi or whatever. Plus, who knows, the thought of the Kyuubi being sucked out of him may have provoked a transfomation as well. After all, the Kyuubi does come under LIFE threatening conditions and emotional turmoil.
Itachi
Raikage (he SEVERELY downpowered the Sharingan, dodged Amaterasu at point blank range, he may have killed Sasuke had Gaara not intervened, albeit at the cost of his foot. Last time I checked, the one without an arm or foot beats the dead guy).
Sasuke (below Raikage and Itachi, he can do Itachis techniques, plus manipulate Amaterasu and he has Kirin. You guys just don't like him because whatever reason.)
I'm sure Madara would be up here, regardless of how he says he's weak now.
Jiraiya is one of my fav characters, but he's BARELY up here.
Hashirama Senju
Killer Bee-If he woulda just done his regular eight tailed transformation at the right moment, he may have defeated Kisame earlier.

Middle Tier:
Ao
Kakashi
Gaara
Kisame
Tobirama Senju
Tsunade
Orochimaru
Yamato?
Kakuzu
Deidara

Lower Tier:
Rest of Akatsuki
Hiruzen Sarutobi
Hidan
Yugito?
Shi
Darui
Temari
Kankuro
Chojuro

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

If we're talking about "KAGE" level rankings (like people that meet the criteria to be that strong) then this is my list. It's all in order too for each tier.

Upper Tier

1. -Sage of six Paths
2. -4th Hokage
3. -Pain
4. -Sage Naruto
5. -Sage Jiraiya

Middle Tier

1. -Itachi Uchiha
2. -Madara Uchiha
3. -Orochimaru
4. -Tsunade
5. -Hanzou
6. -3rd Hokage(Prime)
7. -Raikage
8. -Kisame
9. -Killer Bee

Lower Tier

1. -1st Hokage
2. -2nd Hokage
3. -Tsuchikage
4. -Kakuzu
5. -Sasori
6. -Deidara
7. -Gaara
8. -Mizukage
9. -Kabuto(with Orochimaru DNA)

Now before you guys freak out about Madara being in the middle tier, let me explain. Lately I've been thinking that maybe Madara hasn't really been as strong as we thought. Yes he's most likely still "Kage" level, but if you really think about it, he doesn't seem that powerful. Yes he has the ability to control the Kyuubi, but that just comes as a special power from his bloodline, not his actual "trained" abilities. And we've also heard that even the 1st Hokage defeated Madara, even with his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

I'm starting to believe that maybe Madara isn't really all that powerful compared to how we thought of him. Maybe his plan to control the bijuu as his army is what he aims for to get his "long lost" power back. Because Itachi and himself both stated that he is a pathetic shell of his former self.

Yell at me if you want, but this is what I'm starting to think.

One thing is, the fact that Madara is so far untouchable, the 4th even said that even HE couldn't do a thing against him, and the fact that he has the EMS would make him pretty effin strong.
On top of that, while it is true that he could control the Kyuubi during his fight with Hashirama, the 1st could also control the Kyuubi. The resulting control could have caused the Kyuubi to become useless. On top of that, Hashirama also had other tailed beasts in his posession. Suppose he had the first-eight tails with him on that fight? I doubt the Kyuubi could take ALL of them out.

 

[Geezus]

Theres No Way To Determine THis But From What Im Pulling From It

Top Teir
Itachi and Pein Are Officially Top Tier
4th Hokage. He Is Regarded As The Best Ninja Alive In His Time.
Naruto- Come On He Beat Pein. Regardless of How he Did It He Did.
Madara- Man Who Lives For 107 Years and Survived a 1st Hokage and Controlled 9tails with his eyes. Is Officially Here.
Kirabi: - Controls His Beast To The Fullest Extent. He Can Even Do Partial Transformations + He May Now Currently Possess Samehada.
Raikage:- With his Power coupled Speed,and Reflexes Like Minato in his lightning State. Ownage.
Kisame: Ownage. Samehada.
Jiraya- Duhh.

Mid-Top

Sasuke- Of Course He Here He Cant Even Fully Make Susanoo- Otherwise He'd Be Top
Kakashi- If He Had a More Chakra Definate Top Teir Material
Sasori- Controls 100 Puppets and a 3rd Kazekage Puppet
-imo- Neji : Only Jonin of His Class
Might Guy: If He Used Ninjutsu He Could Be One Of The Best.
Orochimaru- Only if he wasnt sick.
Rest of Akatsuki- They Werent Sent To Capture Bijuu For Nothing

Mid Tier
Shino- Who Knows What Attacks He Has
Sai-
Rock Lee-
Kiba- Probably has New Epic Jutsu.
Shikamaru- His Intellect Pwns Anything. If He Can Find The Time To Do it Before He Dies. U_U

Mid-Low-
TenTen
Sakura
Hinata
Ino

Low.
Konohamaru. Lol. xd
Shizune
Ebisu

 

[Blizzard589]

Wow there are a lot of interesting opinions. No one seems to agree on anything lol... Well here are my responses to some things:

I disagree with this statement of yours. Iruka may have said this but it may be a biased opinion. The First Hokage had a number of the tailed beasts until his control and defeated Madara Uchiha at full power with the EMS and not to mention founded and created Konoha with his wood release. His powers and abilities were so intense that the wounds he inflicted upon Madara still affect Madara after the sixty years time gap. In my own opinion he is the second strongest right under the Rikudou sennin.

Hashirama only beat Madara because of the tailed beasts in his possession. If fighting on his own he would not have survived. Thats why I'm pretty sure he died because he gave away all the bijuu to the great ninja villages and wasn't as strong. We saw him and his brother beaten by an old decrepit Sarutobi. And Sarutobi was said to be much better in his prime as Enma (his monkey summon) and the ANBU dudes watching the battle (if I remember correctly) said he was pathetic and his chakra levels weren't nearly as high. So Hashirama fighting beside the bijuu doesnt really count as his strength.

Why does everyone keep saying that Nagato was at a disadvantage in the fight he still had tons of chakra left. He even used his most powerful Technique on Naruto(Chibaku tensei) the same tech. that sealed the Juubi(10 tails) naruto still broke free and destroyed every body of Nagato's. Sorry but right now Naruto is top 5. And you are right interference from Hinata helped naruto but she didn't so anything to hurt Pain. It was all Naruto lets face it naruto is the strongest ninja in Konoha now. Everyone knows especially Kishi i mean he is about to make Kakashi the Hokage and Pain killed him pretty easily(it was because of naruto nagato brought him back) although he put up a pretty impressive fight.

Ok, it was a much smaller version that the nine tails broke out of. Naruto had no part in the breaking out. And it didn't seal the Juubi, it sealed the Juubi's corpse after the life force was sealed into Sot6P. Naruto may be the most powerful ninja but he has a serious lack of experience to be put into the top tier. Naruto beat Pain because Pain wasn't trying to kill him and Pain had no secrets left and once a ninja loses his secrets he is automatically at a disadvantage. Hinata/Kyuubi interference helped as well. In a fair fight with no outside help and Nagato at full power, Pain would own. Naruto would also lose to Itachi, Kisamehada, Killerbee, Minato, and several others thus he is not top 5. Sorry.

 

[Blizzard589]

I think that your revised tier is pretty accurate but I would place Naruto and Sasuke higher maybe not god tier but upper at least. There was the argument that pain had used a lot of his chakra and Naruto had knowledge of his skills and Pain had eventually captured Naruto until Hinata interveined but Pain even told Naruto that no one has ever given him that much trouble he killed five of his six paths before killing the god realm, granted Pain was going for the capture and not the kill I believe Naruto is much stronger than most give him credit for! Dude is a #@$#@$ sage ya know. Sasuke took on the Raikage and Kazekage and the mizukage so I think he could be placed higher as well I think Garra should be higher to and lets be real shall we, any of the kages should be above any of the akatsuki save for Pain and Itachi, as Kisame is not that strong to me to beat out the kages or sasori, there powerful don't get me wrong I wont say there weak just not on the current Kage level

No Kage in the series can ever be considered a push over because each village is going to go with the best of the best and with knowledge of how powerful the other villages are to some degree you have to assume that in the worst case scenario the kages would be the ultimate trump cards otherwise they would not be considered Kage.

Danzo whom is one of my least favorite is going to end up being what I thought, Uber strong and likely able to make Madara retreat after exposing his jutsu to him and maybe we'll get some Madara action for once but Danzo should be up there on the bases of him being considered Hokage as he was nominated along with Kakashi who I think people underate as well. This was in fact a great thread for a discussion and I'll be glad to recieve any feedback so feel free to respond.

A suggestion though maybe adding a few slots to god tier and placing a couple of the upper in that may be a little more accurate because I feel like there could be more Shinobi considered god tier simply because of who they are 2nd Hokage Jiraiya, whom many might disagree but there are only a handful of shinobi who could really beat him and that is why I say this and altough I believe Naruto should be in the upper of the upper I wont say god tier yet until he learns how to utilize sage mode for longer durations and develops one more chakra nature as well as displaying an array of different wind based jutsu but I do believe he is very and I mean very close Sasuke too, like it or not but the antagonist is a bad ass why els would Madara use him as a pawn.

Hmm I think you underestimate Kisame. He owned Killerbee and Killerbee with the hachibi is probably on par with his lightning armored brother. And I'm pretty sure Raikage was one of the stronger Kage's at the Summit so Kisame is above them all. Sasori beat the strongest Kazekage and gained his abilities through human puppetry so Sasori is automatically up there. Akatsuki aren't pushovers. And Gaara lost his bijuu so he's automatically weakened since he can't transform.

And yeah each village is going with the best of that generation, but not every generation surpasses the previous. And look at Konoha, Kakashi as Hokage? Kakashi couldnt beat any of the other Kage's. Danzo used his mind control thing from Shisui Uchiha's Sharingan to make the council select him. That's why Shikaku was so surprised that they forgot his nomination of Kakashi so quickly. But I do think he is pretty strong, I may have to have him in the upper tier if his released arm is any good.

I really don't see how Naruto is in the upper of the upper. He can't beat Kisame especially since Bee can't and Bee had mastery of Hachibi's power. Naruto isn't beating Jiraiya or Orochimaru yet either. He may be close but he's not there yet. So I think he should stay in mid. He needs to improve in a few more aspects mainly experience before I'll consider him an upper tierman.

 

[Blizzard589]

xDehhhh... about the top thats FREAKING WRONG DUDE !!! the strongest should include : tobi ( uchiha madara) , even naruto because he has the strongest bijuu out there ( well exept the 10 tail bijuu WHO DOESNT EXIST TILL NOW ) and he has sage mode and first of all fuuton rasen-shuriken ... MORE ADVANCED that the 4th could develop . Even the 4th said that naruto will become stronger than him the strongest shinobi ever i might think ... so plis read the manga's , see the episodes , and then try to make the top again Just an opinion dont be angry . xd

Have you seen Madara fight? I haven't... All he's done is stand there and let attacks pass through him. I said in my first post that this was ninja that we've seen in action.
And Just because someone has a more advanced jutsu doesn't make them stronger. Remember, a master with a pebble beats an amateur with a kunai. I read the manga, the anime sucks, and I am confident my top tier is fine. Thanks.

What up again main! I would have to go and say that Pain meant what he said, He had no idea Jiraiya was going to be this strong. If you look at it from the perspective of Pain only having the three bodies and 4th hidden Jiraiya may have won the fight by his experience but obviously that wasn't the case. I don't think for a moment that Pain didn't have the upper hand at the end of the battle, but Naruto was still able to overcome his capture whether or not he was aided by the nine tails. He eventually did defeat all six paths and realistically was quite capable of killing Nagato in his chakra bed or whatever, since he didn't elect to kill him Nagato changed sides seeing that Naruto is someone who can really change the ninja world for the better. I still don't give Naruto God tier credit because he has lots to discover about himself and his abilities still and so a high upper tier but someone please stop saying J man is not strong he before anyone else made Pain use his six paths or at least it seems that way, but he is strong and worthy of being God tier he was elected to become the Hokage at one point in time and recommended by the 3rd who wanted him as his successor but later chose Minato which is still an incredible good choice.

Do you really think Jiraiya would have lasted against all 6 at once? Remember he was struggling with just 3 of them and decided he had to retreat. If all 6 bodies were surrounding you attacking you from all sides, I don't care how good your sage mode is, you aren't surviving that. Naruto had help from all the strongest toads and it still wasn't enough. If Pain wanted to kill Naruto he would've stabbed him in the face instead of just pinning him down. He had the opportunity, easily. Pain also started the battle without god realms powers because of the gigantic Konoha destruction attack. If God realm started with his powers, none of the Rasenshurikens would have connected and Naruto would have been screwed, majorly.

If we're talking about "KAGE" level rankings (like people that meet the criteria to be that strong) then this is my list. It's all in order too for each tier.

Upper Tier

1. -Sage of six Paths
2. -4th Hokage
3. -Pain
4. -Sage Naruto
5. -Sage Jiraiya

Middle Tier

1. -Itachi Uchiha
2. -Madara Uchiha
3. -Orochimaru
4. -Tsunade
5. -Hanzou
6. -3rd Hokage(Prime)
7. -Raikage
8. -Kisame
9. -Killer Bee

Lower Tier

1. -1st Hokage
2. -2nd Hokage
3. -Tsuchikage
4. -Kakuzu
5. -Sasori
6. -Deidara
7. -Gaara
8. -Mizukage
9. -Kabuto(with Orochimaru DNA)

Now before you guys freak out about Madara being in the middle tier, let me explain. Lately I've been thinking that maybe Madara hasn't really been as strong as we thought. Yes he's most likely still "Kage" level, but if you really think about it, he doesn't seem that powerful. Yes he has the ability to control the Kyuubi, but that just comes as a special power from his bloodline, not his actual "trained" abilities. And we've also heard that even the 1st Hokage defeated Madara, even with his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

I'm starting to believe that maybe Madara isn't really all that powerful compared to how we thought of him. Maybe his plan to control the bijuu as his army is what he aims for to get his "long lost" power back. Because Itachi and himself both stated that he is a pathetic shell of his former self.

Yell at me if you want, but this is what I'm starting to think.

I really don't know what you're thinking so I will yell at you like you said we could.
We don't really know Madaras abilities so I don't think we should include him. And Hanzou, beat the Sannin but lost to Pain so he probably goes in the bottom of the topmost level. Itachi not in the top?? How do you figure? He isn't losing to anyone except Pain (and possibly Madara but we don't know yet). Minato is not beating Pain either. Wow this is even more of a mess than my first attempt. You really think Kisame is losing to Tsunade? Wow. K I'm just gonna stop cuz it would take to long.

 

[Valkyria]

Okay, I do take what you said into consideration. So yes, it comes down to Pain's quote and an experienced shinobi with less power/a powerful shinobi with less experience. True, this is where Kishi laid a good debate. Was Pain being bias or did he mean what he said? That question still continues to go unanswered. ​

Would Jiraiya even have the opportunity and time to go into Sage mode if all 6 pains were there from the start? Most likely no. We know that Deva Pain never displayed his full power since Ma and Pa never relayed that info to Konoha. Bansho Tenin would have been the ideal jutsu to get him off balance from Gamaken and put his life in great jeopardy. People like to say that Pain was cheap in hiding his 3 bodies but don't stop to realize the even smaller chance of Jiraiya winning if Pain was fighting 'fair' from the beginning.

If we're talking about "KAGE" level rankings (like people that meet the criteria to be that strong) then this is my list. It's all in order too for each tier.

Upper Tier

1. -Sage of six Paths
2. -4th Hokage
3. -Pain
4. -Sage Naruto
5. -Sage Jiraiya

Middle Tier

1. -Itachi Uchiha
2. -Madara Uchiha
3. -Orochimaru
4. -Tsunade
5. -Hanzou
6. -3rd Hokage(Prime)
7. -Raikage
8. -Kisame
9. -Killer Bee

Lower Tier

1. -1st Hokage
2. -2nd Hokage
3. -Tsuchikage
4. -Kakuzu
5. -Sasori
6. -Deidara
7. -Gaara
8. -Mizukage
9. -Kabuto(with Orochimaru DNA)

Now before you guys freak out about Madara being in the middle tier, let me explain. Lately I've been thinking that maybe Madara hasn't really been as strong as we thought. Yes he's most likely still "Kage" level, but if you really think about it, he doesn't seem that powerful. Yes he has the ability to control the Kyuubi, but that just comes as a special power from his bloodline, not his actual "trained" abilities. And we've also heard that even the 1st Hokage defeated Madara, even with his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

I'm starting to believe that maybe Madara isn't really all that powerful compared to how we thought of him. Maybe his plan to control the bijuu as his army is what he aims for to get his "long lost" power back. Because Itachi and himself both stated that he is a pathetic shell of his former self.

Yell at me if you want, but this is what I'm starting to think.

If your going to include the So6p then you should just give him God tier

 

[Steinbiz]

Have you seen Madara fight? I haven't... All he's done is stand there and let attacks pass through him. I said in my first post that this was ninja that we've seen in action.
And Just because someone has a more advanced jutsu doesn't make them stronger. Remember, a master with a pebble beats an amateur with a kunai. I read the manga, the anime sucks, and I am confident my top tier is fine. Thanks.



Do you really think Jiraiya would have lasted against all 6 at once? Remember he was struggling with just 3 of them and decided he had to retreat. If all 6 bodies were surrounding you attacking you from all sides, I don't care how good your sage mode is, you aren't surviving that. Naruto had help from all the strongest toads and it still wasn't enough. If Pain wanted to kill Naruto he would've stabbed him in the face instead of just pinning him down. He had the opportunity, easily. Pain also started the battle without god realms powers because of the gigantic Konoha destruction attack. If God realm started with his powers, none of the Rasenshurikens would have connected and Naruto would have been screwed, majorly.



I really don't know what you're thinking so I will yell at you like you said we could.
We don't really know Madaras abilities so I don't think we should include him. And Hanzou, beat the Sannin but lost to Pain so he probably goes in the bottom of the topmost level. Itachi not in the top?? How do you figure? He isn't losing to anyone except Pain (and possibly Madara but we don't know yet). Minato is not beating Pain either. Wow this is even more of a mess than my first attempt. You really think Kisame is losing to Tsunade? Wow. K I'm just gonna stop cuz it would take to long.

like I said before, it's all opinionated. This is what I think from what I've read and I'm sticking with it.