Juubito vs DMS Kakashi

KidGamer65

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It absolutely makes zero sense lumping Kakshi and Sakura's feats together. I don't even see how you can see it that way.

Kaguya ignored Sakura, Sakura could not pose any threat to her, no sage chakra nothing. Kaguya did not ignore Kakashi, she tried to stop him and then he cut through her. She did not let that happen for whatever reason(lol), she couldn't do anything against it.

Kakashi took her head on while Sakura hit her when she was focused on naruto and Sasuke. There are so many differences.
Smh. Literally all of this been addressed. In this thread and in VMs. It's amazing how people are actually dumb enough to think that Sasuke and Naruto can get half of Rikudo's power and not be faster than Kaguya, and then Kakashi can come around and get a piece of it and be faster than all 3. It's amazing how people are actually dumb enough to think that JJ Madara is slower than Kaguya, but Kakashi can get a piece of power from JJ Madara and be faster than him. Especially since Madara was faster than Kakashi before the boost.

Smh.

Just leave MoronGamer with his shitty logic. At least it makes him look relevant on narutobase
What a little bitch. Lol. All you can do is cry and complain. Guess that's what you do best nowadays.
 

BenjerminGaye

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When was Kaguya being pressured? She flew away from the other god tier characters then got hit by Sakura. You would have a point if Kaguya got hit by Sakura when Naruto and Sasuke were closing in on her but she escaped before that happened.

Kakashi never fought Kaguya in a one on one, it was a team effort as .
Kaguya got her arm ripped through, and her options cut off when sakura came from above. I'm sure that counts as pressure . Where as naruto and sasuke were nowhere in sight when kakashi used kamui raikiri.
 

RedRobin

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Smh. Literally all of this been addressed. In this thread and in VMs. It's amazing how people are actually dumb enough to think that Sasuke and Naruto can get half of Rikudo's power and not be faster than Kaguya, and then Kakashi can come around and get a piece of it and be faster than all 3. It's amazing how people are actually dumb enough to think that JJ Madara is slower than Kaguya, but Kakashi can get a piece of power from JJ Madara and be faster than him. Especially since Madara was faster than Kakashi before the boost.
But why are you trying to look at it with logic instead of just seeing what was written out by Kishimoto? Its not like Kishi is logical with everything. With something like sage chakra, he can write things however he wants.

Kakashi even getting DMS through spirit Obito was the most illogical thing but it happened.
 
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Bogard

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But of course, a Kaguya fighting 3god tier characters at the same time wasn't pressured. Sakura landed that hit on Kaguya fairly. It definitely makes more sense. What a bunch of morons Lol

Using the most crap logics to justify everything and remain blinded by the truth
 

KidGamer65

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But of course, a Kaguya fighting 3god tier characters at the same time wasn't pressured. Sakura landed that hit on Kaguya fairly. It definitely makes more sense. What a bunch of morons Lol

Using the most crap logics to justify everything and remain blinded by the truth
Lol, look at this retard. Bogard. Why do you continue? Every time you post, you make yourself look stupider and stupider.

Being in combat with 3 people doesn't mean you are being pressured by them all at once. Kakashi engaged her alone, and then fell back. Then Naruto and Sasuke engaged her together. So she was being pressured by Naruto and Sasuke. Not to mention no one ever said she wasn't being pressured, at least I didn't. All I'm saying is, you are a retard for saying that her flying upwards is a task that wouldn't allow her to counter attack someone as slow as Sakura.

Lol. Fucking idiot. Don't talk about what makes sense when you are backing the idiotic "Kakashi blitzed Kaguya, and is the fastest character in the series" nonsense argument.


But why are you trying to look at it with logic instead of just seeing what was written out by Kishimoto? Its not like Kishi is logical with everything. With something like sage chakra, he can write things however he wants.

Kakashi even getting DMS was the most illogical thing but it happened.
Because what Kishimoto wrote can be explained by things other than the nonsense "she got blitzed" shtick.
 

Bogard

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I'm bored, so of course, i'll continue to teach retards such as yourself a lesson during my freetime. You really think what you're telling to me affect me one bit? Lol Not when it comes someone who went full retard

Kakashi blitzing Kaguya actually happened in the manga, so doesn't matter to me whatever type of excuses you're going to pull out to try to ignore it
 

KidGamer65

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I'm bored, so of course, i'll continue to teach retards such as yourself a lesson during my freetime. You really think what you're telling to me affect me one bit? Lol Not when it comes someone who went full retard

Kakashi blitzing Kaguya actually happened in the manga, so doesn't matter to me whatever type of excuses you're going to pull out to try to ignore it
Just like Sakura blitzing Kaguya actually happened in the Manga? Lmao. Get that stupid shit out of here dumbass. The only thing you are doing is teaching us how much of a fapboy you really are.
 

King Of Pop

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It absolutely makes zero sense lumping Kakshi and Sakura's feats together. I don't even see how you can see it that way.

Kaguya ignored Sakura, Sakura could not pose any threat to her, no sage chakra nothing. Kaguya did not ignore Kakashi, she tried to stop him and then he cut through her. She did not let that happen for whatever reason(lol), she couldn't do anything against it.

Kakashi took her head on while Sakura hit her when she was focused on naruto and Sasuke. There are so many differences.
the ignore excuse makes no sense tbh. she just got away from a dangerous situation of nearly being sealed and then she sees someone coming to attack her, you think she would risk getting attacked just because she doesnt view the person as a threat even though 2 guys with jutsu to seal her are right down below her?. makes no sense

focus argument doesnt work as well because she knew of sakuras presence and could have prevented what happened to her.
 

Strict

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Kaguya was not only pressurized by Sasuke and Naruto, as Kakashi sucked away her attacks like ash bones from distance so Kaguya actually had no chance but escaping - by the spot being blocked by Sakura. Kaguya literally bumped into Sakura. At this point, it was just bad writing by Kishimoto, that Kaguya was dumb enough not to notice Sakura. But Sakura didn't blitz Kaguya. Kaguya ran into her arms, trying to dodge Sasuke and Naruto.

OT, Kakashi wins. Intangibility avoids anything Obito can do. Long range Kamui can be used to tear him to pieces, bothering him with regeneration (I wonder what happens if Kakashi sucks his head in. Will his body regenerate a new head or will his head grow a new body, or will he die?).

Intangibility and Rikudo PS with Kamui Shuriken gg.
 
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RedRobin

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the ignore excuse makes no sense tbh. she just got away from a dangerous situational of nearly being sealed and then she sees someone coming to attack her, you think she would risk getting attacked just because she doesnt view the person as a threat even though 2 guys with jutsu to seal her are right down below her?. makes no sense

focus argument doesnt work as well because she knew of sakuras presence and could have prevented what happened to her.
Sakura's power was severely underrated. Not just anyone would have been able to knock Kaguya down and hold her down with a punch.

Kaguya did not know know Sakura was that strong, strong enough to put her down. Anything other than physical power wouldnt have worked.
 

Draphsin

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The blind-spot until the red bar area seems just about large enough for someone as small and lithe as Sakura to slip through.
Stop grasping at straws. By the time sakura reached whatever red bar you're talking about kaguya would still have enough time to dodge, she's a god.

Sakura hit her in the neck area unless I'm mistaken.
Sakura broker her horn off, meaning she hit her horn which is on the top of her head. She also went , meaning the fist came from straight up.

The exclamation marks when she got hit merely proves she either wasn't expecting to be hit, or that she didn't expect to get hurt.
Irrelevant, doesn't prove she didn't notice sakura prior to being hit.

I perfectly know what annotations are; and I'm not in middle school mate.
Then stop complaining about me using a fan-made site when the proof is right in front of your eyes.

I never even looked at the wiki page you posted. The wiki being a fan-made site makes me think 'don't look at it!'
Well then this just proves that you don't know what annotations are, because if you did then the wiki being fan-made would make no difference.

Unless it is absolutely backed up by evidence than I don't consider it usable, I doubt I'd get away with using it if I did anyway.
Which it is via annotations, & someone who knows what those are would say the same thing.

Kamui is one of the most hax abilities in the entire Manga, the Jutsu being amplified by something as strong as Rikudou chakra means it's going to be really powerful.
Power =/= speed. & Kamui never boosted kakashi's speed, why are you repeating the same things that have already been addressed?

I never said that Sasuke's foot/striking speed wasn't faster than Kakashi's own foot/striking speed.
That's exactly what you're saying if you believe kakashi blitzed kaguya, how many times am I going to have to keep saying this?

What I did say was that Kakashi with Kamui is comparable, if not faster than Sasuke's foot/striking speed.
Which is completely irrelevant because kamui never increased kakashi's speed whilst charging kaguya. Smfh, kakashi used his own footspeed to blitz kaguya, I don't care if you think kamui makes kakashi comparable to sasuke in terms of movement speed, that still doesn't mean anything. Your logic says that kakashi w/o kamui >>> sasuke's regular speed.

Maybe if you can prove she even did sense Sakura my friend.
Her sensory abilities are passive, she had no reason to sense anyone but naruto yet she the others in her dimension. BZ also immediately sensed obito & sakura enter & leave her dimension, so he has passive sensory abilities as well. You need to prove that her sensory abilities were for some reason turned off [if she can even do that] if you want to claim that she didn't sense her.

1. Either Kaguya for some reason didn't sense the build up, or opted to tank it.
@Bold: Lol nice speculation, but that doesn't hold. @The rest: Wtf is this, now you're using my own points against me? You must seriously be dense. If she opted to tank sakura's attack then she opted to tank kakashi's, this is a concession in my eyes.

2. Blind-spot.
Which doesn't cover the top of her head or her horns.

3. It's a fairly logical conclusion though.
That doesn't make it proof.

No, I'm not a retard.
Lol Okay.

Different circumstances.
Still repeating the same thing w/o proof? Ridiculous. U_U

When Kakashi blitzed Kaguya she was a fair ways away from Naruto and Sasuke and didn't have to deal with them at the time.
Irrelevant to my goddamn point. That doesn't mean she was worried about kakashi's attack considering she never dodged it despite noticing it. It was maybe a blitz in your eyes but kaguya not dodging =/= kakashi blitzing her, so please learn that before replying to me again.

Whereas with Sakura's case Naruto and Sasuke were within arm's length of Kaguya when she propelled herself upwards fast enough to dodge them.
So? That doesn't make sakura as fast as rikudou enhanced characters.

Physics says she wouldn't have been able to dodge Sakura because of that reason.
Then you don't know how to apply physics to this discussion.

What you're referring to is momentum, you're claiming that kaguya's momentum was too great & so she couldn't change her flight trajectory when she noticed sakura hitting her. Yet what you don't realize is that this claim falls apart once I ask for proof that kaguya can fly with so much momentum that changing her trajectory has been shown to be a difficult task.

Since you can't prove that kaguya couldn't simply move forward or backwards due to her momentum being too great then you have no point. Kaguya flying up to avoid naruto & sasuke doesn't mean she was unable to dodge an attack from above.

Flight is still a part of gravity.
The only thing about flight relating to gravity is weight. If you can support your own weight via flight then gravity doesn't apply to you.

Yet you gave no proof she even opted to tank Kakashi's Raikiri....oh wait what were you saying about speculation before?
Smh.. I don't need it. Point here is that kaguya deciding to tank kakashi's attack makes more sense than kakashi being faster than sasuke. Unless you can prove that kaguya wasn't planning on tanking it then my claim makes more sense than yours. Burden of proof is on you.

No, my logic is Sasuke (with Amenotejikara)>>Sasuke (foot/striking speed) and Kakashi>>Sakura (I edited the previous post).
Wrong, your logic doesn't say that & merely making a statement such as "My logic is..." doesn't magically change the way your logic actually works. Your logic = Kakashi > Sakura >> Sasuke, deny it & try to correct it all you want but until you drop this charade of an argument then that's what it's saying.

I have arguments of my own thank you very much.
Sorry, but you really don't.

Never did. Merely stated that Gai's ability to hurt Madara was because of the 8th Gate and not because it was Taijutsu.
Which is the biggest pile of horsesh*t I've ever read, prove such a claim. 8G = taijutsu meaning the attacks that hurt madara were taijutsu, conclusion? Taijutsu can damage juubi jins. Nowhere in the manga does it say that the 8G was the sole reason for madara getting hurt.

And that Sakura Taijutsu doesn't equate to Gai's 8th Gates special capabilities.
8G = Taijutsu = Sakura's punch, it's all the same thing albeit each has a different level of power, but power is irrelevant when someone like obito can punch through madara's stomach.

Jinchuriki's chakra merge with their Bijuu's mate, it's common knowledge.
This doesn't mean that some chakra gets left over post-extraction.

Thus why I said that a little bit of residue was left over.
Thus why I gave you examples of how that's clearly not the case. Doesn't in any way prove that obito has some of the juubi's chakra post-extraction.

Naruto was given more chakra by Kurama throughout the war arc, yet even with the chakra refills he was still tired. That is my argument for why chakra doesn't equate not being tired anymore.
Then you need to reread the entire war arc & come back here. Specifically look up when the god tree sucked , then once he gained a he was back up on his feet.

This has happened on multiple occasions throughout the war arc. The only time that kurama's chakra didn't revitalize him was during VoTE2 because they were both low, every other time he gained chakra he was ready to fight.

& This is about kakashi anyways, I gave you proof that kakashi w/ more chakra gained more stamina yet you're still going to deny? You brought naruto into this when he isn't kakashi just so you can try & have a point, but you don't, enough chaklra increases someone's stamina & physical ability. It's written for you in black & white.

Because we didn't see him charge, one moment he was at one spot and the next he had just gone through Kaguya.
So now you're going to use another fallacy? Appealing to ignorance. Absence of evidence =/////= evidence of absence, us not seeing kakashi reach kaguya isn't proof that he teleported to her. & Before you try & say that it is then I guess naruto has a s/t jutsu too since one moment he's & the next thing we know he's . Lol

Never even implied Kamui made him faster.
Yes you did, but whatever. Not even going to entertain this anymore, it's irrelevant.

What I did mean was that because he can stay intangible as his Raikiri hits his opponent, than he doesn't actually have to physically hit them, thus why I say that Kakashi with Kamui is comparable or faster than Sasuke's foot/striking speed.
This doesn't make him faster, INTANGIBILITY DOESN'T MAKE YOU FASTER, not being able to get hit DOESN'T MAKE YOU FASTER THAN YOUR OPPONENT. I guess MS obito > rinnegan sasuke since kamui makes him faster. Right?

Kakashi still used his footspeed to reach kaguya.

Bold. I posted that to show that it's very possible that Kakashi used Kamui to teleport to Kaguya.
Possible or not, it didn't happen w/o proof.

Never even mentioned Kakashi's foot speed.
You don't have to, by saying kakashi blitzed kaguya w/ kamui raikiri you're saying that kakashi's FOOTSPEED surpasses sasuke's, since intangibility didn't increase kakashi's footspeed. Basic logic.

It doesn't matter anyway since VOTE2 Sasuke (the one that wasn't holding back) is faster.
Irrelevant, not talking about that sasuke, talking about the kaguya fight sasuke.

It's very possible that he did teleport to Kaguya.
I don't care, it's possible that hagoromo has PS, it's possible that adult sasuke can use all the rinnegan's paths, & it's possible that he can use them better than nagato can. Until you can prove it this point means nothing.

Bold. Never stated that.
Read above, you don't have to state it, your logic does.

I don't like being proven wrong, but when push comes to shove I can admit defeat.
Clearly. :rolleyes:

My grammar is incomprehensible?
For that quote I apparently misinterpreted, yes.

And yes your grammar can be shit sometimes, but it's still better than some of the other people on the site..
As long as people can understand me that's fine, if there's something extremely wrong w/ my grammar then I'll fix it for next time, that's the joy of learning.

I'm a lazy bastard that doesn't feel motivated to use proper grammar for anything but when I write my books/stories. Sometimes I try hard but it just doesn't work. I don't know why.

The grammar I use for debates is pretty mediocre. I was comparing the grammar I can employ compared to the grammar I use in debates.
W/e, this is off topic. As long as I can read it I don't have a problem.

Hopefully you've seen an improvement in my grammar, as I did try.
I can understand it, so it's fine.
 

BLAZE

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So according to Kakashi fans[i mean faps] Sakura low diff everyone bar Rikudo power char becoz she landed hit on Kaguya :rolleyes:

inb4 Kaguya ignored sakura so that they can fap over kakashi

OT: Kakashi wins becoz of Intagibilty
 
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BenjerminGaye

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So according to Kakashi fans[i mean faps] Sakura low diff everyone bar Rikudo power char becoz she landed hit on Kaguya :rolleyes:

inb4 Kaguya ignored sakura so that they can fap over kakashi

OT: Kakashi wins becoz of Intagibilty
Kakashi fans aren't saying that....

Kakashi's hit on kaguya is vastly different from sakura's hit.
 

Bogard

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Rikudo Naruto and Sasuke having difficulties to physically dodge a chakra arm

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with a clone being forced to push them out of the way

Naruto confirming those chakra arms to be fast(with Sasuke agreeing)

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Kakashi doesn't care and lol the chakra arm by taking Sakura and outspeeding it despite being at point blank range

Kaguya attacking Kakashi on 1 on 1(with Kakashi noticing the attack to be fast)

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Strength and speed nothing compared to before

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And of course Kishi made that statement with her being blitzed in the following event for it to mean shit

Kakashi loling the attack

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With interrogation mark on Kaguya emphasizing the surprise around Kakashi's phasing(Kakashi was still on his Susanoo on the bottom left panel and we read manga from right to left, from up to down)

Blitzing Kaguya without reaction

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But hey, let's compare this to a Kaguya who was cornered by 3 god tier characters(with one blocking a portal with Kamui, Amaterasu forcing her not to switch in ice dimension, etc...) while actually being the one who ran(or rather jump) into Sakura's direction trying to avoid Naruto/Sasuke's sealing
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Icelerate

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So Kakashi can blitz powered up Kaguya without reaction?

I guess he's the fastest character in the manga. RSM Naruto, Hagoromo, Madara and Sasuke pale in comparison.
 

Bogard

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Call it inconsistency or whatever you want, but it won't change the facts. Not sure why people are trying to bend it though Lol
 

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Doesn't fucking matter. See below

Didn't know kunais were as fast as Sakura, let alone Kakashi. The difference in speed between kunai and Sakura isn't that different than the speed between Sakura and Kaguya
Pretty sure when Minato threw a kunai, it travelled as fast as his own foot speed when up against Tobi. Minato threw a kunai so fast that the kunai moved further than V2 Ay. Sure Zabuza =/= Minato but I'm sure a kunai thrown by Zabuza would be much faster than part one Sakura.
Kaguya attacked Kakashi in a one on one. That alone shows she viewed him as a threat. Not the same thing with Sakura who got ignored
Madara still took Sakura seriously and didn't ignore her so why would Kaguya? Kaguya showed an exclamation mark which means Sakura wasn't ignored.
They are coming from different direction at complete different intervals from one another. The singular group that Neji was evading one after the other was coming in a singular direction. It's what i meant. And no, it's not the same thing with Sakura-Kaguya circumstance since like i've mentioned, she was coming out of a multi-tasking reflexive move
No look at the , they came simultaneously but their direction was different. Kaguya wasn't multitasking, she was coming out of a multi-tasking reflexive move which isn't the same as multitasking at that particular moment. Kaguya was multitasking when her portal got warped by Kakashi but was still able to . Going by your logic, Sakura is faster than Naruto and Sasuke because she blitzed a Kaguya coming out of a multitasking move whereas Kaguya reacted to Naruto and Sasuke while multitasking.
I can post whatever i want when i want

It's not like i was discussing over your Sasuke/Kakashi subject no, i just pointed out the fact that Salterate, MoronGamer and the rest of idiotic posters in this topic are using crap logics. It's amazing however how many idiotic excuses you clowns will try to make to justify something that we all know makes zero sense.
It's strange to see you throw insults around. You're actually one of the most polite posters on this site so this must mean you're losing this argument pretty badly.

Kaguya got her arm ripped through, and her options cut off when sakura came from above. I'm sure that counts as pressure . Where as naruto and sasuke were nowhere in sight when kakashi used kamui raikiri.
Yeah I agree Kakashi's feat was far more impressive but even under those circumstances where Sakura hit Kaguya, she is still fast enough to react to speedsters like Minato, 7th gate Gai and V2 Ay with ease. Does this mean Sakura is above those three in speed? I highly doubt it. Does the fact that Kakashi blitzed powered up Kaguya whereas Sasuke failed to blitz weakened Kaguya make Kakashi faster than Sasuke? I highly doubt it.
Call it inconsistency or whatever you want, but it won't change the facts. Not sure why people are trying to bend it though Lol
Yeah I'll agree both scenarios were inconsistent. That's why I don't take either feat too seriously anymore after analysing them both.
 
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Ambivalence

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I really don't understand the claims Kakashi fans are making. I'll lay out some facts:

1. They're defending the notion that Kakashi blitzed Kaguya
2. Sasuke canonically couldn't land a hit on even a weakened Kaguya:

*

*

3. Kakashi supporters admitted that Sasuke>Kakashi in speed.

I do agree that Sasuke is faster than DMS Kakashi
I never said that Sasuke's foot/striking speed wasn't faster than Kakashi's own foot/striking speed.
4. Taking into account points 2 and 3, how could have Kakashi ''blitzed'' than the one Sasuke failed to blitz, despite everyone knowing and even admitting that Sasuke>>Kakashi in speed?

I don't even understand how anyone can think Kaguya was blitzed when she clearly , and only let out a . If Kakashi truly did blitz her, which he did not, those exclamation and question marks would have been on the second panel I posted, when Kaguya was hit, which would signify her being actually blitzed. Going by the Kakashi-blitzed-Kaguya logic would mean Sakura blitzed her as well, I mean she did land a hit, right? Going by the Kakashi-blitzed-Kaguya logic would mean he's the fastest character in the manga, period. Arguments on Kakashi's side make absolutely zero sense.

Lastly, how in the effing hell does Kamui increase the user's speed in battle? Lol
 
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