Jiraiya is a BEAST

[Dannie]

Why did you dislike the thread Erin? Lol

 

[Zealotic]

Itachi isnt modest at all. He thought he could do everything by himself and failed. That is more leaning towards arrogance than modesty.


As an Edo he got a second chance to entrust others and realise his mistake in life (doing everything on his own).

He has a great heart though in that he is willing to sacrafice himself for others, but that is something else than modest.

Im talking about that statement he made lol

Yeah he was modest, but nothing states he was being modest when he was having that conversation. Plus to top it all off both him and Kisame ran when they faced him instead of attempting any resistance. Itachi didn't want to fight him period, because he wasn't evil to begin with and he knew he wouldn't win even with Kisame as back up.

He never said he'd loses he said they would injure each other
"Even the strongest heroes have there weaknesses"
GG

 

[Chie]

Itachi isnt modest at all. He thought he could do everything by himself and failed. That is more leaning towards arrogance than modesty.

As an Edo he got a second chance to entrust others and realise his mistake in life (doing everything on his own).

He has a great heart though in that he is willing to sacrafice himself for others, but that is something else than modest.

He's the most humble guy in this manga. (Okay, maybe not most, but he is certainly in the top 5 most humble)

Yes, he thought he could do everything himself because no one was there to help him. He had no one to fall back on. His best friend jumped off a cliff and left. He had no rational way other than to think "I can do this, I can pull it off" and go through with things. He had no other choice but to do things on his own.

If anything, this shows he is modest. His characterization is heavy with self-sacrifice. People who are arrogant wish to only do things for themselves...not give up themselves for others who won't ever appreciate them.

Even when he was 13, he stated that he thought he was arrogant. Is that arrogance to admit a flaw? No... it's modesty. And then as an Edo, he basically said he was a failure who accomplished absolutely nothing, saying this right after Kabuto gave him a good deal of praise. I don't see any other character in the manga doing that. Everyone else would be an airhead and take the praise, more likely than not agreeing with it.

The guy literally has (or rather had) every reason to brag to everyone about his abilities and who he was, do things for himself...and yet chose not to. This is nothing but modesty.

The only thing you can argue is that he had confidence (which is different from arrogance). However, nothing is wrong with this. If a shinobi isn't confident in battle, then what can they fall back on?

Edit: Let's get this thread back on topic. It's about Jiraiya, if he is such a wonderful character, then his character alone should provoke enough discussion for this thread. Itachi's character should not be mentioned in this thread any longer considering that would getting the thread off-topic, it has nothing to do with him.

 

[Mahesvara]

Those last 12 words really derailed the legitimacy of your comment :/

How so? I can't ignore the fact that he wasn't evil, but that wasn't stopping him from fighting anyone from Konoha. Hell he put Kakashi and Sasuke in the Hospital for a long period of time.

 

[Mahesvara]

Im talking about that statement he made lol



He never said he'd loses he said they would injure each other
"Even the strongest heroes have there weaknesses"
GG

Yeah, but he said the outcome probably wouldn't have changed even if he had back up, which doesn't make much sense to begin with, but either way he wouldn't win.

 

[Chie]

How so? I can't ignore the fact that he wasn't evil, but that wasn't stopping him from fighting anyone from Konoha. Hell he put Kakashi and Sasuke in the Hospital for a long period of time.

No, it did considering he repeatedly made excuses to leave and even said "We are not here to start a war".

He put Kakashi through that since he wouldn't leave him alone and just wanted to knock him out so they could leave. He even gave the guy a warning. Lol Incapacitation is a better option than killing. Knocking out Kakashi also makes it a given that Danzo and the echelons will hear of his appearance and make sure not to touch Sasuke.

He put Sasuke through that because he wanted to continue to direct his hatred at him, as well as for him to be motivated and strong. Kisame was also there, so he had to keep up his "I'm ruthless" act for Akatsuki.

3-5 days is not a long time. Not by far.

In the case of Jiraiya, an excuse like that lie was the chance for Itachi to leave and Kisame not to drag things out. Kisame even admitted that he wanted to stay and fight. Lol Also, he did that because this way knocking out Jiraiya wouldn't be necessary. Why take out the most powerful shinobi in Konoha when the village is just recovering from Orochimaru's attack and even in need of a new Hokage?

Yeah, but he said the outcome probably wouldn't have changed even if he had back up, which doesn't make much sense to begin with, but either way he wouldn't win.

It didn't make much sense since it was a lie. Kisame not being a deciding factor in a fight? Lol, what a joke.

No, he'd win. U_U

 

[aimop95]

I feel like the Lord Third was supposed to be like this too. Making up for pure power with a ton of versatility. Unfortunately, we never got to see much of that.

 

[Zealotic]

Yeah, but he said the outcome probably wouldn't have changed even if he had back up, which doesn't make much sense to begin with, but either way he wouldn't win.

Kishi must have hit the blunt that day

 

[Tennis Robot]

He's the most humble guy in this manga. (Okay, maybe not most, but he is certainly in the top 5 most humble)

Yes, he thought he could do everything himself because no one was there to help him. He had no one to fall back on. His best friend jumped off a cliff and left. He had no rational way other than to think "I can do this, I can pull it off" and go through with things. He had no other choice but to do things on his own.

If anything, this shows he is modest. His characterization is heavy with self-sacrifice. People who are arrogant wish to only do things for themselves...not give up themselves for others who won't ever appreciate them.

Even when he was 13, he stated that he thought he was arrogant. Is that arrogance to admit a flaw? No... it's modesty. And then as an Edo, he basically said he was a failure who accomplished absolutely nothing, saying this right after Kabuto gave him a good deal of praise. I don't see any other character in the manga doing that. Everyone else would be an airhead and take the praise, more likely than not agreeing with it.

The guy literally has (or rather had) every reason to brag to everyone about his abilities and who he was, do things for himself...and yet chose not to. This is nothing but modesty.

The only thing you can argue is that he had confidence (which is different from arrogance). However, nothing is wrong with this. If a shinobi isn't confident in battle, then what can they fall back on?

Edit: Let's get this thread back on topic. It's about Jiraiya, if he is such a wonderful character, then his character alone should provoke enough discussion for this thread. Itachi's character should not be mentioned in this thread any longer considering that would getting the thread off-topic, it has nothing to do with him.

Itachi was arrogant, it's just a different kind of arrogance. I'm not sure if I can explain it. He felt like he had to do everything alone, but at the same time it was what he wanted to do. He thought that only he was capable of changing things, and that's why he was so distant from others. He also didn't want anyone to have to bear that kind of burden. He realized this after he was revived. It's a less negative type of arrogance, because it only really hurt him in the end; but it is arrogance nonetheless. Arrogance is (unfortunately) something I am very familiar with :/

How so? I can't ignore the fact that he wasn't evil, but that wasn't stopping him from fighting anyone from Konoha. Hell he put Kakashi and Sasuke in the Hospital for a long period of time.

Itachi's life was dedicated to protecting Konoha/Sasuke.

 

[Chie]

Itachi was arrogant, it's just a different kind of arrogance. I'm not sure if I can explain it. He felt like he had to do everything alone, but at the same time it was what he wanted to do. He thought that only he was capable of changing things, and that's why he was so distant from others. He also didn't want anyone to have to bear that kind of burden. He realized this after he was revived. It's a less negative type of arrogance, because it only really hurt him in the end; but it is arrogance nonetheless. Arrogance is (unfortunately) something I am very familiar with :/

No, what you said makes sense. I agree with it. But, regardless of this, most Naruto characters are more prideful than he is. Even with this type of arrogance (he's confident that he can handle it, that his abilities can be sufficient) he is still quite humble and is in the top 5 in that regard.

ot: Awesome. This is no longer Jiraiya's thread, since his fans on the first page felt to make it a vs involving Itachi. Which was an issue that was debateable only in 2007 and prior. :/

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Jiraiya was the best shinobi of his time.

Rep you for making awesome thread on jiraiya.

 

[Tennis Robot]

No, what you said makes sense. I agree with it. But, regardless of this, most Naruto characters are more prideful than he is. Even with this type of arrogance (he's confident that he can handle it, that his abilities can be sufficient) he is still quite humble and is in the top 5 in that regard.

ot: Awesome. This is no longer Jiraiya's thread, since his fans on the first page felt to make it a vs involving Itachi. Which was an issue that was debateable only in 2007 and prior. :/

I would have to think about that a little before agreeing or disagreeing. Itachi just wanted to be a good person and I am also familiar with attempts to be a good person going awry lol.

 

[Mahesvara]

It didn't make much sense since it was a lie. Kisame not being a deciding factor in a fight? Lol, what a joke.

No, he'd win. U_U

A lie? Oh please show me where in the manga it says he was lying. Then I will gladly admit the scan does not matter. Either way I still stay firm on the belief that Jiriaya defeats Itachi regardless. Itachi is great and all, but the only way I see him beating Jiriaya is only if Jiriaya is not in SM and he gets him in genjutsu, but getting someone as intelligent and skilled as Jiriaya trapped in genjutsu is a tall order. SM Jiriaya would just be to much for Itachi, genjutsu would be ineffective because of Ma and Pa will be able to break him out of it and all of Jiriaya's previous abilities will be enhanced drastically, not to mention he would have a infinite supply of senjutsu at his disposal.

 

[Tennis Robot]

A lie? Oh please show me where in the manga it says he was lying. Then I will gladly admitted the scan does not matter. Either way I still stay firm on the belief that Jiriaya defeats Itachi regardless Itachi is great and all, but the only way I see him beating Jiriaya is only if Jiriaya is not in SM and he gets him in genjutsu, but getting someone as intelligent and skilled as Jiriaya is a tall order. SM Jiriaya would just be to much for Itachi, genjutsu would be ineffective because of Ma and Pa will be able to break him out of it and all of Jiriaya's previous abilities will be enhance drastically, not to mention he would have a infinite supply of senjutsu at his disposal.

Yeah, but Jiraiya doesn't walk around in Sage Mode with Ma and Pa on his shoulders, does he?

 

[Chie]

I would have to think about that a little before agreeing or disagreeing. Itachi just wanted to be a good person and I am also familiar with attempts to be a good person going awry lol.

I agree with it simply because everyone is arrogant to some degree, even confidence in the end stems off from having arrogance (though, very, very little). To achieve a goal, people are arrogant in that they think they are qualified, though this arrogance is justified and often times doesn't necessarily hinder them because they have to do what they have to do. I consider this to be Itachi's case.

A lie? Oh please show me where in the manga it says he was lying. Then I will gladly admitted the scan does not matter. Either way I still stay firm on the belief that Jiriaya defeats Itachi regardless Itachi is great and all, but the only way I see him beating Jiriaya is only if Jiriaya is not in SM and he gets him in genjutsu, but getting someone as intelligent and skilled as Jiriaya is a tall order. SM Jiriaya would just be to much for Itachi, genjutsu would be ineffective because of Ma and Pa will be able to break him out of it and all of Jiriaya's previous abilities will be enhance drastically, not to mention he would have a infinite supply of senjutsu at his disposal.

-Obito stated that he wasn't there to fight.
-Chiyo stated in the anime that Jiraiya wasn't why the Akatsuki stayed away from Naruto at all.
-All it takes is common sense to tell. Most of the fandom gets it.

-Ma and Pa get caught in genjutsu as well, they aren't breaking it.
-Senjutsu chakra isn't infinite. He still needs to take time to gather the chakra, which is a hindrance in battle.

You can keep your opinion, I respect it. Just as I'll keep mine that even with SM, Jiraiya still loses to Itachi. Though, it would be a great fight to see.

 

[Tennis Robot]

I agree with it simply because everyone is arrogant to some degree, even confidence in the end stems off from having arrogance (though, very, very little). To achieve a goal, people are arrogant in that they think they are qualified, though this arrogance is justified and often times doesn't necessarily hinder them because they have to do what they have to do. I consider this to be Itachi's case.

Itachi said it was a hindrance. He said he regretted not confiding in Sasuke, and he did confide in Naruto. It didn't make Itachi any less capable of doing what he did, but it made things more difficult for him. That's why I think it's not a horrible type of arrogance to have (as long as you aren't around other people much). It just hurts. A lot

 

[Mahesvara]

Yeah, but Jiraiya doesn't walk around in Sage Mode with Ma and Pa on his shoulders, does he?

Of course not, but Jiriaya can stall for enough time. He has plenty of summons that he can use to fight on his behalf to stall for time. Plus Jiriaya is a master at stealth if he gave a Rinnegan user a tough time to track him down, he can do the same with Itachi.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Sorry itachi fanboys/girls.

jiraiya is clearly stronger than itachi.
Sound genjutsu GG

 

[End of Days]

Thats why people run when they see him

 

[Chie]

Itachi said it was a hindrance. He said he regretted not confiding in Sasuke, and he did confide in Naruto. It didn't make Itachi any less capable of doing what he did, but it made things more difficult for him. That's why I think it's not a horrible type of arrogance to have (as long as you aren't around other people much). It just hurts. A lot

Eh, not really. It's more of a forced flaw on the author's behalf to make the character easier to relate to as well as to push common Shonen themes (friendship is what everyone needs), when in actuality it back fired slightly, since people admitting their flaws completely like that is a rare thing even in real life. It takes too much maturity, something most people lack.

Truth be told, not confiding in Sasuke was the smartest thing to do. An 8 year old is in no way going to change the minds of an entire clan who doesn't even desire to talk to avoid conflict. Especially when said 8 year old doesn't even understand what a coup entails. Itachi was just being hopeful and it was Kishimoto's way of showing that he could view Sasuke as an equal instead of a little one he had to protect.

Yes, it does hurt. So, it's bad in that regard. However, the problem here is that this isn't much of a character flaw considering that he had no one knowledgeable about the situation to confide to at any point in his lifetime, he had no option but to go it alone if he wanted to save everyone (village, clan lineage, clan honor, Sasuke, prevent war, etc). Confidence when there are no better options isn't necessarily bad. It's a great thing. It has drawbacks in that it made him suffer, very much so. Then again, he was never the type to complain and didn't once in this entire manga (which is in stark contrast to every other character).

We should probably take this discussion to VMs/PMs since the thread is so off-topic now. Lol I apologize to the creator of this thread.

Of course not, but Jiriaya can stall for enough time. He has plenty of summons that he can use to fight on his behalf to stall for time. Plus Jiriaya is a master at stealth if he gave a Rinnegan user a tough time to track him down, he can do the same with Itachi.

Nothing is stopping those summons' from getting caught in genjutsu. (I'm just saying.)

Sorry itachi fanboys/girls.

jiraiya is clearly stronger than itachi.
Sound genjutsu GG

No, not really. I respect that opinion, though. U_U