Izuna Theory is DEAD guys

[kibaclaw]

Tobi is definitely Not Izuna... The counter args here are that Madara Used Rinne Tensei to bring him back...
Well check it out..
Madara took Izuna's eyes (confirmed), which was then stated Izuna died, he then had to transplant them, (which im guessing took about a week or 2 to heal) ...
Now Madara the greatest Uchiha and master fighter is not going to run into his fight with Hashi without testing his eyes... So here, add say another week .. We are at week 3, and Madara has EMS, Izuna is dead ...

Now the kicker...

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top left panel... he says "there is still enough time to save those i killed when I came to Konoha" .. implying there is a time limit.. what kind of limit? idk... but still the words are right there...

So how would Madara who didn't even get those eyes (rinnegan) till AFTER he fought with Hashi, SHORTLY before his own death .. And just somehow knew how to use Rinne Tensei, without any prior use of the rinnegan?? Even if it were only a week after Izuna died... That is seriously flawed bro...
Plus that would make him what? 100 years old+

But then again who thought we'd ever see Kurama cry... lol...

If there is a time limit on a healthy full-powered rinnegan user then why did Madara think he was revived by Nagato 20 years after he died?

 

[ThousandLegs]

well if tobi ever uses MS and he IS Izuna wouldnt his be the same unless after Madara taking his eyes he had to steal some other Uchiha eyes and cant now activate it for some reason

 

[Sasuke2]

Nope, Izuna being dead is as valid as Gaara, whole of Konoha and Itachi being dead

 

[Zato]

Madara clearly states that the only thing Izuna left behind after his death was his eyes that are within him now. Madara is basically saying everything he is doing is in Izuna's name. This means that Tobi cannot be Izuna for the simple fact Madara sees Izuna as deceased. This is why he had that flash back of Izuna and Tsunade had the flash back of the people who are dead in her life that she cherished. YES IZUNA IS STILL DEAD!!!!

 

[uhIpooped]

You added the word "enough", HAHa there is no time limit. When Madara is revived he expects it to be the Rinne Tensei and he expects it to be Nagato's doing. Why would he suspect these things if there is a time limit. DO NOT add words like enough to embellish your point. He simply says "there is still time" to bring everyone back AKA it is still possible. He could have been referring to his own chakra supply.

Yes we know Tobi is very old.

Spoiler

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"Do you have ANY idea how long I've waited for this."

I keep proving your arguments false and all I hear back from everyone is THE SAME ARGUMENT I JUST DISPROVED. I disprove "a" and you all just keep saying no it can't be Izuna cuz "a" happened. NO I JUST SAID THAT IS NOT 100% true. "YEAH BUT 'a' happened." :sy::sy::sy::sy:

You know how long i've been waiting for Naruto to fight Sasuke??!?!
(that mean im really old btw)...
You haven't disproved or proven anything...
and Yes i saw I added "enough" my bad.. it still reads the same... Otherwise, why not just kick back have a cold one and wait for his chakara to be restored, instead of sacrificing himself

 

[stu21]

Tobi is the killer of Madara and Tobi called himself as Madara.When Tobi saw Madara,Tobi is worry that Madara will piss him because of killing him

Actually that's plausible, Tobi killed Madara, then retrieved his eyes, gave to Nagato

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

again, Kishi isnt going to say Izuna died, only to then go completely against it

And didn't Kishi say Tobi was Madara?!??!? Yes......what's your point?!?!?

 

[uhIpooped]

And didn't Kishi say Tobi was Madara?!??!? Yes......what's your point?!?!?

Kishi also wrote this... pay attention to what Tsunade is saying...

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[Qcks]

Look... believe that it's not izuna all you want; all i'm gonna say is that if tobi isn't izuna, he better be Obito, because if it's kagami or shisui, that'd be really f***ing retarded.

 

[Sasuke2]

It's Izuna.
What Madara said and Izuna's death back then are not valid.
Itachi left Naruto some powers before death, and now he is walking around.
Gaara was basically dead, he is walking around.
Most of Konoha was killed by Nagato, alive.
Madara died in battle with Hashirama, survived to meet Nagato and now walking around.
Tobi is Madara according to databook, now he is not.

See ?
Ur argument is invalid for I have an owl.

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

Riddle me this then... If there is No 'time limit', Why didn't Nagato just revive Yahiko? One of the 2 people he cared about most, yet instead just manipulates his corpse?
If he could have brought anyone back, Why not his best friend? Most likely because he COULDN'T ... too much TIME had passed ...
You must remember also Nagato believed Yahiko was the savior .. So once again, Why not bring him back if he could...????????
Why not bring back his parents or anyone else he loved?

I'll quote the same wiki you did...


you missed the important word there... Crossroads ..

Kakashi was in the 'crossroads' when he met his father... meaning that his soul had not moved on. And therefore was able to return to his body.
Nowhere does it say that he can bring a soul back from the other side (Heaven/Afterlife, or whatever you wanna call it). It says, "between Life, and the Afterlife" ..

So once again, Yahiko's soul had most assuredly moved on after he died, having devoted faith in Nagato. Thus Nagato was never able to reach him and bring him back...

What does Madara being dead longer than J-man have anything to do with Rinne Tesei or Madara bringing Izuna back as Tobi, and being proof that I cant ignore Madara used Rinne?

I didnt even understand that last part...

Again,

1.Madara said the plan was for Nagato/Tobi to revive him with the Gedō: Rinne Tensei no Jutsu .

2. What? I brought up Jiraiya cause hes been dead longer then Madare. Going by you said theres a time limit,but yet Madara knew that Gedō: Rinne Tensei no Jutsu,could revive him and has been dead longer then J-man and Yahiko's. So there isn't a time limit in reviving someone.

3.Why bring up Yahiko,when you just anwsered your questions.
Like:" Why didn't Nagato just revive Yahiko?". Yahiko passed on to the afterlife,while Madara or Izuna probably stayed at the 'crossroads'.

Like I said there isn't a time limit,since Madara knew it would revive him. Now,Madara have to trust someone with his moon eye plan. He won't just pick some random guy to help. So who else can he trust? I say his brother,after all he gave Madara his eyes. Plus Tobi talks about Madara taking his brother eyes as if he was there.

Actually that's plausible, Tobi killed Madara, then retrieved his eyes, gave to Nagato

Naw,Madara knew Nagato too. And was wondering why Tobi and Nagato didn't revived him as planned.

Kishi also wrote this... pay attention to what Tsunade is saying...

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He meant that Kishi been telling us Tobi was Madara,yet Madara was really dead. Kishi can say Izuna is dead but turn it around and say his really tobi.

 

[home]

both tobi and madara are lying barstards so you never know

 

[uhIpooped]

3.Why bring up Yahiko,when you just anwsered your questions.
Like:" Why didn't Nagato just revive Yahiko?". Yahiko passed on to the afterlife,while Madara or Izuna probably stayed at the 'crossroads'.

Like I said there isn't a time limit,since Madara knew it would revive him. Now,Madara have to trust someone with his moon eye plan. He won't just pick some random guy to help. So who else can he trust? I say his brother,after all he gave Madara his eyes. Plus Tobi talks about Madara taking his brother eyes as if he was there.

So you're saying that when you die you get to choose where you go?
I dont think so...

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

So you're saying that when you die you get to choose where you go?
I dont think so...

Um yes. But,

1. It's a manga after all , we saw Kakashi dad in the crossroad who wasn't in the Next World (or whatever). Unless you think the manga is real life xd


2. If you want to compare it with real life then, people do believe that soul or spirits sometimes don't want to move on until they get some answers,etc. After that they have to go to the afterlife rather its Hell or Heaven.

3.I have a friend who says she can see spirits, and one time half of heaven.
At first I didn't believe it,but then she told me she saw my unlce next to me and he wanted to tell me something..... I won't go into details since i'm already taking it to far,plus the topic was about Izuna and not about religion/if you can choose where you go after you die.


So, again its a manga. If we can see Kakashi dad waiting on the crossroad still,then we can assume characters can wait or move on.
:scorps:

 

[uhIpooped]

Um yes. But,

1. It's a manga after all , we saw Kakashi dad in the crossroad who wasn't in the Next World (or whatever). Unless you think the manga is real life xd


2. If you want to compare it with real life then, people do believe that soul or spirits sometimes don't want to move on until they get some answers,etc. After that they have to go to the afterlife rather its Hell or Heaven.

3.I have a friend who says she can see spirits, and one time half of heaven.
At first I didn't believe it,but then she told me she saw my unlce next to me and he wanted to tell me something..... I won't go into details since i'm already taking it to far,plus the topic was about Izuna and not about religion/if you can choose where you go after you die.


So, again its a manga. If we can see Kakashi dad waiting on the crossroad still,then we can assume characters can wait or move on.
:scorps:

I wasn't comparing it to real life... Kakasi's dad was the prime example... He didn't just want to sit there waiting... His soul was bound, because there were things unresolved... He could have simply moved on and waited for Kakashi in the otherside...

My counter argument was, You don't have a choice whether you get to move on or not... Where you were suggesting that Madara and Izuna were like, "When we die, we need to wait at the crossroads till we get revived" ..

Where what would be the unresolved issue with Izuna? He put all his faith in Madara, enough to die giving him his eyes... And I STILL argue that neither one knew of Rinne Tensei at that point ..

Yes this is Naruto-Verse, and anything can happen... But Kishi is intelligent, creative, and insightful .. and probably know Occam's razor .. which i use in most of my talks here on NB...
In the case you don't know what that is... :

The principle is often summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one." In practice, the application of the principle often shifts the burden of proof in a discussion.[1] The razor asserts that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power. The simplest available theory need not be most accurate.

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

I wasn't comparing it to real life... Kakasi's dad was the prime example... He didn't just want to sit there waiting... His soul was bound, because there were things unresolved... He could have simply moved on and waited for Kakashi in the otherside...

My counter argument was, You don't have a choice whether you get to move on or not... Where you were suggesting that Madara and Izuna were like, "When we die, we need to wait at the crossroads till we get revived" ..

Where what would be the unresolved issue with Izuna? He put all his faith in Madara, enough to die giving him his eyes... And I STILL argue that neither one knew of Rinne Tensei at that point ..

Yes this is Naruto-Verse, and anything can happen... But Kishi is intelligent, creative, and insightful .. and probably know Occam's razor .. which i use in most of my talks here on NB...
In the case you don't know what that is... :

My counter argument is theres no time limit in reviving someone and the characters do have a choice to move on
(example Kakashi's dad.

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After Kakashi was about to return, his dad thanked him and said now he can move on.).


As for Izuna,maybe he wasn't ready to move on,simple.Now all the clans secret were on that stone tablet,maybe Madara and Izuna probably found out that the next step to the sharingan power was the Rinne.

I still say Tobi is Izuna since it makes sense. After all who else can Madara trust with his plan.

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Also Tobi clenching his arm and later saying "what did my brother sacrifice his eyes for?!" shows he was upset about the truce. That Izuna died for nothing (which could be the reason why he didn't move on).

Or maybe Tobi is Madara clone but thats just another topic.

 

[psukkar]

it was a mistranslation. Madara doesnt know who tobi is at the moment but will see when they meet what happens.

 

[~WastelandSociety~]

it was a mistranslation. Madara doesnt know who tobi is at the moment but will see when they meet what happens.

"mistranslation" ? Ha, No.

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As you can see Madara knew who tobi is. The first link shows Temari saying "Who is that man with the mask....?"
with Madara listening.
Then in the next link (page) Madara said "This is his doing....He definitely has somthing in mind...But what? Things don't seem to be going as according to plan very well."


So he know who Tobi is(the masked man) and made a plan with Tobi that involves reviving him/the moon eye plan.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

Listen about this "crossroads" business. No that is Bullsh*t. Kakashi was dead full on dead like EVERYONE ELSE IN KONOHA but they were all bought back yet weren't waiting around in some crossroads.

 

[Sasuke2]

Don't know why people can't accept Tobi is Izuna and think it's Obito ...