Itachi's weapon only seals souls = huge misconception (proof)

[Strawberry]

zetsu said they seal anything they pierce, highly unlikely they pierce everything however.......

also there are weaker sealing techs that can seal ninjutsu, totsuka is one of the stronger i dont see why it cant seal ninjutsu however i doubt it would seal lets say a bijuudama.

that being said oro's 8 headed snake jutsu was one of his strongest, probably requiring massive amounts of chakra, so we can inference that most regular ninjutsu, as powerful as they may be can be sealed, just like that something bigger more powerful would have trouble in the sealing

 

[khaydz5]

Totsuka seals everything it pierces, including inanimate objects, as for chakra , I can't comment on that..

how do I know this?
There's a difference to something that just seals soul... and something that seals everything..

When itachi stabs someone, their clothing, their body, blood, bones, hair, everything is sealed, and their soul is sent into the sake


when Death reaper is takin your soul.. it just takes your soul... your body drops lifeless when the sealing is comlpete , or if it just took a part of your soul (Arm) that part drops lifeless

though I agree that it seals the body and the soul, IMO it cannot be used to seal things.

I mean, so you gonna trap an inanimate object in a genjutsu?lol what logic. its acceptable if the clothing will be sealed aswell because I bet kishi wouldn't waste his time explaining about it, but if you're thinking this sword will seal houses, mountains ,trees, jutsus(CT, fireball, bunshin etc) you sir, FAILED.

and with this,manga contradicts databook again just like most of ninjutsus listed on the databook.

 

[Owarij]

though I agree that it seals the body and the soul, IMO it cannot be used to seal things.

I mean, so you gonna trap an inanimate object in a genjutsu?lol what logic. its acceptable if the clothing will be sealed aswell because I bet kishi wouldn't waste his time explaining about it, but if you're thinking this sword will seal houses, mountains ,trees, jutsus(CT, fireball, bunshin etc) you sir, FAILED.

and with this,manga contradicts databook again just like most of ninjutsus listed on the databook.

eh? You're assuming kishi didn't go into detail , but he did, The manga hasn' contradicted anything.. zetsu even said it, its said the sword can seal anything it pierces..

is this hard to believe? Ninas have sealed things in scrolls before... Giants gates are summoned through summoning seals, The 7 swordsmen stored their swords in their scroll and more.. The sword itself is imbued with sealing jutsu.. what the limit is, idk

But what is fact is, it has displayed capabilities of sealing things other than souls.. it is NOT like the death god seal


And it will seal a clone... if the clone is strong enough to not disperse from the stab.... a moukouton clone for example will get sealed by the sword, just like its possible for the deathgode to seal a clone..


Did the death god not take and seal 50% of kurama's chakra, so why are you acting like the feat is impossible for sealing jutsu?

 

[Draegod]

Totsuka seals everything it pierces, including inanimate objects, as for chakra , I can't comment on that..

how do I know this?
There's a difference to something that just seals soul... and something that seals everything..

When itachi stabs someone, their clothing, their body, blood, bones, hair, everything is sealed, and their soul is sent into the sake


when Death reaper is takin your soul.. it just takes your soul... your body drops lifeless when the sealing is comlpete , or if it just took a part of your soul (Arm) that part drops lifeless

Not really, the only reason its that way is because its a childrens cartoon. Why do you think when any ninja transform they keep there cloths? Or when ever suigetsu turns to water? Its that way because its a cartoon for kids and nudity is frowned apon.

Can the planet or rocks be put into a genjutsu? can a wall be put in a genjutsu? COmmon sense and any logic suggest no!

But if we were to play dumb and be a smart ass, every thing in the manga is literal and we should take it just as you take only the itachi related quotes as "facts" or "true".


And dont bring up the "spiritual/magic" because that means nothing unless kishi says "it means its above all logic in all of naruto".

According to your logic the earth/planets/water etc etc can also be put in to a genjutsu.

But your a smart guy, you should get where im going with this.

And plus based on actual feats, it has only sealed humans/organic beings.

 

[Draegod]

eh? You're assuming kishi didn't go into detail , but he did, The manga hasn' contradicted anything.. zetsu even said it, its said the sword can seal anything it pierces..

is this hard to believe? Ninas have sealed things in scrolls before... Giants gates are summoned through summoning seals, The 7 swordsmen stored their swords in their scroll and more.. The sword itself is imbued with sealing jutsu.. what the limit is, idk

But what is fact is, it has displayed capabilities of sealing things other than souls.. it is NOT like the death god seal


And it will seal a clone... if the clone is strong enough to not disperse from the stab.... a moukouton clone for example will get sealed by the sword, just like its possible for the deathgode to seal a clone..


Did the death god not take and seal 50% of kurama's chakra, so why are you acting like the feat is impossible for sealing jutsu?

Zetsu also states "or so the legend goes" as in he wasnt sure and it was just a rumor (fact)

Then you compare the RDS when they are nothing alike! Only thing in common is "sealing"

 

[Draegod]

Saying Totsuka sealed Yamata Orochi is like saying it could seal KCM Naruto or Cursed Mark Sasuke. They are merely trasnformations of the original person. You cant seal away something like that... atleast not in the way your presenting it.

In regards to your thread you clearly says it seals ninjutsu and i clearly gave you the scan that showed you what it does and gave you a thread to help you understand my thoughts on what happened with the whole sealing proccess.




Whats your problem? Did you even read the scan I posted where it litterally says that the Totsuka blade seals anything it peirces? How can you STILL say that I am wrong when I have given you evidence from the manga that says it word for word.

And I am not advertising my thread, the OP's thread is premised with the fact that it was not Orochimaru's soul that was sealed but his ninjutsu, which I assume leads into why Sasuke was able to summon him, since he wasnt technically sealed. So after showing him why he was wrong I linked him to a thread that I made earlier since I had to deal with the same question and came down with a different answer.

Lastly if the OP has a problem with what I say then let him say so, he is a big boy and doesnt need no names like you butting in to defend him. especially when everything you have said so far has been wrong.

You stated, "anything it touches" reread your own comment! I knwo what it says, thats why i said "not anything it touches".

Pay attention

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

Zetsu also states "or so the legend goes" as in he wasnt sure and it was just a rumor (fact)

Then you compare the RDS when they are nothing alike! Only thing in common is "sealing"

and Itachi sealed Orochifodder's ninjutsu in fact
furthermore he sealed Nagato's edo corpse which was lifeless
do you remember when Hiruzen sealed Hashirama and Tobirama
the corpses didn't get sealed because it only sealed their souls
Totsuka is totally different
it already sealed
Orochimaru's ninjutsu (in fact)
Orochimaru's soul (possibly)
Nagato's soul (in fact)
Nagato's edo body (which was nothing more than a dead body)

 

[Owarij]

Not really, the only reason its that way is because its a childrens cartoon. Why do you think when any ninja transform they keep there cloths? Or when ever suigetsu turns to water? Its that way because its a cartoon for kids and nudity is frowned apon.

Can the planet or rocks be put into a genjutsu? can a wall be put in a genjutsu? COmmon sense and any logic suggest no!

But if we were to play dumb and be a smart ass, every thing in the manga is literal and we should take it just as you take only the itachi related quotes as "facts" or "true".


And dont bring up the "spiritual/magic" because that means nothing unless kishi says "it means its above all logic in all of naruto".

According to your logic the earth/planets/water etc etc can also be put in to a genjutsu.

But your a smart guy, you should get where im going with this.

And plus based on actual feats, it has only sealed humans/organic beings.

Downplaying kishi's work to undetailed cartoons... there is a clear difference between RDS and Totsuka.. They are alike because they are sealing jutsu...

RDS is a sealing jutsu itself, and totsuka is IMBUED with sealing jutsu....
When rds seals a soul, it only takes the soul.. when totsuka seals something, it seals their soul, and everything on their being... including , kunai, clothes, hair and things not relating to their soul... they could be holding a rock and it would seal it as well...

you're arguing no limit fallacies that have nothing to do with the argument.. Totsuka is said to seal anything it pierces, not that it can pierce everything

Zetsu also states "or so the legend goes" as in he wasnt sure and it was just a rumor (fact)

Then you compare the RDS when they are nothing alike! Only thing in common is "sealing"

I fail to comprehend the point of your post.. it's flat out stated in the databook dictionary that the weapons existed so long ago that they are legends that people don't believe exist.... Zetsu is recalling what that legend is... just as hashirama was a legend to many, who could create forests in an instant.. Both legends have turned out to be true however..





Maybe you wish to argue of the limitations and capabilities of fuinjutsu.. have fuinjutsu been shown capable of sealing chakra? yes, not only sealing chakra but placing sealed chakra in something or someone else... has fuinjutsu shown capabilities of sealing objects? Yes, since the beginning of the manga,

What's the argument?
Do you see anyone using lack of common sense to argue that since minato has fun jutsu that can seal objects, he can seal mountains?

use common sense in your arguments

It is FACT that sealing jutsu can seal items, and chakra.. though there is ofc a limit.. we've seen sealing pots imbued with sealing jutsu withhold giant bijuu's of chakra..

 

[Draegod]

Downplaying kishi's work to undetailed cartoons... there is a clear difference between RDS and Totsuka.. They are alike because they are sealing jutsu...

RDS is a sealing jutsu itself, and totsuka is IMBUED with sealing jutsu....
When rds seals a soul, it only takes the soul.. when totsuka seals something, it seals their soul, and everything on their being... including , kunai, clothes, hair and things not relating to their soul... they could be holding a rock and it would seal it as well...

you're arguing no limit fallacies that have nothing to do with the argument.. Totsuka is said to seal anything it pierces, not that it can pierce everything


I fail to comprehend the point of your post.. it's flat out stated in the databook dictionary that the weapons existed so long ago that they are legends that people don't believe exist.... Zetsu is recalling what that legend is... just as hashirama was a legend to many, who could create forests in an instant.. Both legends have turned out to be true however..

1st part; They are nothing alike! Like i said only thing in common is sealing. Gaaras sand can seal, sealing tags can seal, mummy like sand tech can seal, scrolls can seal. Thats all they have in common. But they are all different in the way they go about sealing or working.

It specifically says in a Genjutsu like bliss. As in, they will be in a "genjutsu". A rock cannot be put into a genjutsu. Basically your saying it can seal the earth itself. Basically your saying it can seal water, or air (oxy and nitrogen). Common sense says it couldnt and shouldnt be looked they way of working.



The totsu and RDS is nothing alike in the way they work. RDS seals what the user wants till its time for the user to give up there soul and be sealed. Totsu seals by piercing and putting them in a "genjutsu like bliss"



And the only reason why i brought up th ezetsu fact was because you said " zetsu even said it, its said the sword can seal anything it pierces.." SO dont try to switch it up when i didnt say the databook didnt state it didnt. ( i commented on the manga and your zetsu comment, not the databook because you didnt bring it up).

And everyone knew hashi was of the wood release, him creating a forest isnt what was doubted. Even yamato can create a forest. That isnt a feat that isnt believable.

Now you can take it literal and think it seals any and everything in the entire universe if you want too i can care less. But if you take 1 manga term/databook jutsu/term literal then take it all literal!

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This crushes the yata mirror!

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This pierces the yata aswell!

And before anyone says something about the legendary 7 swords; they aren't regular swords. Even the lamest sword is "magical" and heals by absorbing the iron in its foes blood!

And FYI it is recent fact that kishi has wrote, so recent fact>>>>Past fact! Correct?

 

[Owarij]

You do realize the genjutsu like bliss was referring only to souls? not everything that it seals.. As I said.. you completely and utterly contradict yourself by saying it can only seal souls.. when it seals everything it pierces.. whether kunai, scales everything...

It is COMPLETELY comparable to the RDS , because what you're arguing , "an ability that can only seal souls" does NOT seal the person it self... it doesn't take their clothes, it doesn't take their bones.. it takes their soul.. .Totsuka seals everything... and the soul is trapped in a genjutsu


God knows why you just went on arguing about yata mirror

This shouldn't even be an argument, We've seen totsuka stab nagato, and only take his soul, but everything that encompassed the edo.. from his clothes, to the original dead body that was used for the ritual...

You're arguing that kishi doesn't know what he was drawing, and that it's a children show, which is completely contradictory, because he would have made rds do the exact same thing . the very fact that twice, he showed that the entire person/animal/being is sealed , means Zetsu was right, the sword seals anything it pierces... not limited to souls, but skin and blood as well..


As I said before, arguing no limit fallacies is idiotic.. tenten seals kunai etc in her scrolls..
does that mean she can seal mountains?

or are you going to argue she can't seal things in scrolls? it's the exact same thing I said.. totsuka has shown to seal humans etc.... did I argue it can seal mountains?

do you see anyone arguing ten ten can seal mountains?

 

[Draegod]

You do realize the genjutsu like bliss was referring only to souls? not everything that it seals.. As I said.. you completely and utterly contradict yourself by saying it can only seal souls.. when it seals everything it pierces.. whether kunai, scales everything...

It is COMPLETELY comparable to the RDS , because what you're arguing , "an ability that can only seal souls" does NOT seal the person it self... it doesn't take their clothes, it doesn't take their bones.. it takes their soul.. .Totsuka seals everything... and the soul is trapped in a genjutsu


God knows why you just went on arguing about yata mirror

This shouldn't even be an argument, We've seen totsuka stab nagato, and only take his soul, but everything that encompassed the edo.. from his clothes, to the original dead body that was used for the ritual...

You're arguing that kishi doesn't know what he was drawing, and that it's a children show, which is completely contradictory, because he would have made rds do the exact same thing . the very fact that twice, he showed that the entire person/animal/being is sealed , means Zetsu was right, the sword seals anything it pierces... not limited to souls, but skin and blood as well..


As I said before, arguing no limit fallacies is idiotic.. tenten seals kunai etc in her scrolls..
does that mean she can seal mountains?

or are you going to argue she can't seal things in scrolls? it's the exact same thing I said.. totsuka has shown to seal humans etc.... did I argue it can seal mountains?

do you see anyone arguing ten ten can seal mountains?

I never said souls only, i said "humans/organic beings" so please dont put words in my mouth.

What i stated stands, what you stated makes no since to my statements because i specifically stated "humans/oganic beings"

RDS seals what ever until the users souls is sealed to complete the contract. (charkra, clones, doesnt matter i suppose)

My argument was that tot cannot seal rocks, chakra, planets, water, walls, air, etc etc. But if its human related i could care less if it can seal or not.


Maybe we are on 2 different pages. haha

 

[KingHashirama]

the Snake was a living creature....... hence a soul....

 

[Owarij]

I never said souls only, i said "humans/organic beings" so please dont put words in my mouth.

Edos came with kunai's.. meaning it seals kunai's as well... where will your argument stop? you don't get that it sealed a bunch of inorganic stuff as well? Weapons etc?

If Nagato hada rock in his hand or pocket, it would have sealed it as well.. that's what you're not getting..

It sealed nagato's entire body of chakra...

It's contradictory to say it can only seal organic things when it did the opposite in the manga...

minato, tenten can use fuinjutsu to seal a rock if they wanted


tell me what exactly is unbelievable of totsuka doing the same?

 

[Lilt]

Databook disagrees

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No, it doesn't.

And that's what I came here to say.

The actual translation separates the Fūinjutsu‎ and Genjutsu. They're two separate enchantments.

So yes, souls sucked are put in genjutsu, but other things can be sucked up by the Fūinjutsu as well.

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[Lilt]

Besides that, look at what the actual manga says in the lower left-hand corner:

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Sealing is NOT Genjutsu.

Only living creatures can experience the heavenly genjutsu, but non-living things can be put in the space.

 

[Lilt]

And finally, I just want people to remember the basics:

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Chakra is made out of physical (body) and spiritual (soul) energy.

In sealing bodies, it's not the soul being sealed (think Human Path, which really does pull out only spiritual energy.)

But the body as well, along with physical material on the bodies (clothing, etc.)

So yeah. People that say "only souls" can be sealed are mistaken.

It seals everything. The only thing to experience the genjutsu, however, are things with souls.

Which makes sense.

 

[Owarij]

No, it doesn't.

And that's what I came here to say.

The actual translation separates the Fūinjutsu‎ and Genjutsu. They're two separate enchantments.

So yes, souls sucked are put in genjutsu, but other things can be sucked up by the Fūinjutsu as well.

Do you see what I'm saying?

Exactly what I tried explaining... THE SOULS are put into a genjutsu.. but that doesn't mean ONLY SOULS are sealed.. that's contrary to what zetsu stated

 

[Lilt]

Exactly what I tried explaining... THE SOULS are put into a genjutsu.. but that doesn't mean ONLY SOULS are sealed.. that's contrary to what zetsu stated

It's contrary to what's shown, too. Then they backpedal to only organic flesh. Then what about clothes? Then they backpedal more. The actual statements, in both the databook and manga, do not exclude anything from the sealing jutsu, only the genjutsu, which is common sense. Obviously Nagato's cloak wouldn't experience eternal bliss after being sealed.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's contrary to what's shown, too.

So for example. If Chibaku Tensei were pierced, it'd be sealed?

 

[Owarij]

IF chibaku tensei COULD be pierced, it should be....but as I said, according to the legend, it seals anything it can fully pierce but the legend never said it can pierce everything..

Ofc these legends are to be taken with a grain of salt... there must be limits.. Oro's sword was said to peirce anything but failed to pierce kyuubi's cloak and enma's diamond shell