[VS] Itachi vs Tobirama

[Owarij]

In what exactly is Minato different then for you?

History of fighting Uchiha every day, Intelligence level, Sensory skills and so much more

You must be fooling yourself if you think Minato is Tobirama. He's simply the faster of the ninja. In terms of intelligence and experience, one dwarfs the other

 

[Penguin]

Tobirama would have a better chance against Izuna, Madara, Itachi, etc. than Minato would since he does have more experience fighting Uchiha. Owarji summed it up pretty well.

 

[Bogard]

History of fighting Uchiha every day, Intelligence level, Sensory skills and so much more

You must be fooling yourself if you think Minato is Tobirama. He's simply the faster of the ninja. In terms of intelligence and experience, one dwarfs the other

No, he isn't simply faster considering Minato is smart and is a sensor himself, which are the principal arguments you used with Tobirama. I just feel like you're the one fooling yourself here if you really think it's different

 

[Owarij]

No, he isn't simply faster considering Minato is smart and is a sensor himself

We've debated this, Minato's sensory skills isn't on par with his. His sage mode use is horrid , admitted by himself. His knowledge of mangekyou and its abiltiies is unknown, possibly nonexistent. The list can go on.
He isn't Tobirama 2.0.

 

[Bogard]

We've debated this, Minato's sensory skills isn't on par with his. His sage mode use is horrid , admitted by himself. His knowledge of mangekyou and its abiltiies is unknown, possibly nonexistent. The list can go on.
He isn't Tobirama 2.0.

Whether his sensing skills are on par with Tobirama or not is irrelevant here. The question is to know which Tobirama's sensing skills makes it more relevant than Minato's in a fight against Itachi? Minato knew Madara couldn't control the Kyubi for long, even developing a contract seal to stop the Mangekyou control. Saying he has no knowledge on how to fight Sharingan is always what i felt like a sad argument on your part

 

[Gold Lightning]

History of fighting Uchiha every day, Intelligence level, Sensory skills and so much more

You must be fooling yourself if you think Minato is Tobirama. He's simply the faster of the ninja. In terms of intelligence and experience, one dwarfs the other

Minato grew up with uchiha, has known them his whole life. Lead a village filled with the,, being Hokage suggests he was the strongest I'm the village, including the uchiha. He fights an MS user and wins with little difficulty, even deduces that it might be Madara - meaning he has intel on uchiha and Madara himself yet did not waver. And Minatos has shown sensory skills similar to Tobiramas. How does being "horrid" at sage mode affect ones sensing when it still gets the job done? If he enters sage mode in order to locate someone, it will work.

And if the only difference you can identify is speed between the two then you are deluding yourself.

 

[Phonas]

No it's not the genjutsu which is undetectable by sensory means. It's the genjutsu user who is undetectable if he stays outside the range in which a sensor can sense. You can sense disturbance in one's chakra flow(to know when a genjutsu is used), but you can't know who causes the disturbance

But if he's manipulating them with genjutsu, wouldn't the sensors have initially sensed the chakra disturbance? Ao is saying that Itachi knows how to bypass that system with his genjutsu. For instance, the second that Kabuto was trapped in Izanami, he didn't even sense a slight distrubance to his chakra, despite being a top tier sensor. It fools a certain aspect of the cranial nerve.

 

[Owarij]

But if he's manipulating them with genjutsu, wouldn't the sensors have initially sensed the chakra disturbance?

Exactly my Point
They specifically still thought it was Itachi even though they had an entire Sensory division that can check for change in chakra flow

This isnt about distance. This is simply that , as ao said, Itachi can manipulate without being detected. Range wasn't mentioned. His genjtusu and himself was undetectable to a sensory unit

Whether his sensing skills are on par with Tobirama or not is irrelevant here. The question is to know which Tobirama's sensing skills makes it more relevant than Minato's in a fight against Itachi? Minato knew Madara couldn't control the Kyubi for long, even developing a contract seal to stop the Mangekyou control. Saying he has no knowledge on how to fight Sharingan is always what i felt like a sad argument on your part

It does matter because the level of his sensory skills will be one of the big deciding factors in this fight. And minato with his on off sensory skills isn't enough to predict amaterasu Shots etc. Him having knowledge on Madara which is probably in konoha history books on Uchiha . Developing a contract seal to stop mangekyou control ? Lets get proof for that

 

[Bogard]

It does matter because the level of his sensory skills will be one of the big deciding factors in this fight. And minato with his on off sensory skills isn't enough to predict amaterasu Shots etc. Him having knowledge on Madara which is probably in konoha history books on Uchiha . Developing a contract seal to stop mangekyou control ? Lets get proof for that

And like i've said it already last time, every sensor kneed chakra to sense(Tobirama included [

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]). It's for that reason he failed to notice Hiruzen's approach for example [

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], so you have no right in blaming one and forgetting the other. Minato can sense Jubi's chakra in base [

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] when it was said to be impossible outside sage mode [

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], even comparing the quantity with the previous Jubi's host

Sensory squad needed great materials just to sense Kumo, yet Minato could sense countries away(from Konoha to Kumo) Naruto's chakra inside the Kyubi's

Nagato didn't even show sensing skills close to Minato, yet he was capable to sense Amaterasu. Even Ino could fight with sensing alone no problems [

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] I feel you're just grasping at straws here, nothing more

 

[Phonas]

Exactly my Point
They specifically still thought it was Itachi even though they had an entire Sensory division that can check for change in chakra flow

This isnt about distance. This is simply that , as ao said, Itachi can manipulate without being detected. Range wasn't mentioned. His genjtusu and himself was undetectable to a sensory unit

Edit:

I completely agree. Not to mention, it was one of the best sensors in the series that couldn't even detect that they were in Itachi's illusion.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Exactly my Point
They specifically still thought it was Itachi even though they had an entire Sensory division that can check for change in chakra flow

This isnt about distance. This is simply that , as ao said, Itachi can manipulate without being detected. Range wasn't mentioned. His genjtusu and himself was undetectable to a sensory unit



It does matter because the level of his sensory skills will be one of the big deciding factors in this fight. And minato with his on off sensory skills isn't enough to predict amaterasu Shots etc. Him having knowledge on Madara which is probably in konoha history books on Uchiha . Developing a contract seal to stop mangekyou control? Lets get proof for that

Your arguments are so bias and one sided it's unreal. What about Tobirama who couldn't even sense Madara's presence despite him only being a couple meters away from him

Spoiler

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What about Ay who doesn't even have any sensory ability, still used speed alone to dodge Amaterasu smh.

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[Owarij]

Your arguments are so bias and one sided it's unreal. What about Tobirama who couldn't even sense Madara's presence despite him only being a couple meters away from him

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What about Ay who doesn't even have any sensory ability, still used speed alone to dodge Amaterasu smh.

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I'll leave you to realize the diff in the above scan and the one previously mentioned . Tobirama wasn't in any form of battle mode in the scan you posted. Minato was when he failed to realize what was going on to his son, and the rest of the ninjas

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In comparison to lets say

Ay was looking directly into Sasuke's eyes. Saw the pre signs of amaterasu. And used his heightened reflexes to dodge.
You want to argue Minato makes eyecontact?
Fine by me. Make this much easier on my end
Tsukyomi Ends.

 

[Optimistic]

lol that 2014 member got blanked. Ya'll too cruel.

 

[Gold Lightning]

I'll leave you to realize the diff in the above scan and the one previously mentioned . Tobirama wasn't in any form of battle mode in the scan you posted. Minato was when he failed to realize what was going on to his son, and the rest of the ninjas

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In comparison to lets say

Ay was looking directly into Sasuke's eyes. Saw the pre signs of amaterasu. And used his heightened reflexes to dodge.
You want to argue Minato makes eyecontact?
Fine by me. Make this much easier on my end
Tsukyomi Ends.

Tobirama was kneading chakra when orochimaru revived him, yet he did not sense Madara's chakra until Orochimaru told him. So it's not just about kneading chakra, it's about concentration. Tobirama wasn't concentrating on sensing, despite raising his chakra moments before. The same with minato, he was moulding chakra (rasengan) but did not sense Naruto until Kurama alerted him. So it's the same for both sides.

Minato doesn't need to look into an uchiha's eyes to fight them, we've already seen how space time jutsu can save a person from a fatal jutsu. Kakashi used kamui to rid himself of a sage art rasengan that had already made contact. And minato was hit by a combined Amaterasu and rasenshuriken but used FTG to escape it. And we know minato can decide what to teleport and leave behind with FTG. Plus Ohnoki has some of the best experience fighting uchiha and all he said is to not look "Directly" into their eyes. Ay was disgusted with himself for getting caught in Madara's genjutsu as he felt it was not within his nature to fall prey to such a genjutsu. You can look at an uchiha, just don't stare into their eyes and you should be ok.

Kakashi fought itachi whole looking straight at him (Shippuden) yet itachi needed to pull kakashis head directly towards his face in order to cast genjutsu on him. So enough with the Tsukuyomi gg crap, it ain't working on Hokage level opponents who can also use shadow clone feints, speed and sensing to avoid such things.

 

[A v i]

History of fighting Uchiha every day, Intelligence level, Sensory skills and so much more

You must be fooling yourself if you think Minato is Tobirama. He's simply the faster of the ninja. In terms of intelligence and experience, one dwarfs the other

Plz,I admit that he has been acting wired ever since Obito entered the battle but Tobirama dwarfs Minato interms of intelligence and Sensory skills? I don't have a problem if you think he's smarter than Minato but if you seriously think Minato isn't even smart enough to figure out a way to fight against an Uchiha with MS which is why you were telling me that Tobirama can beat Itachi mid dif but Minato can't do the same then it is you who is fooling himself here.Why exactly do you think Tobirama is a better sensor than Minato? There is literally nothing that suggests your point is true exept that he has more feats than Minato.If you can give me a good reason that explains why Minato can't pull same feats as Tobirama then feel free to say that he is better than Minato in this regard.

It does matter because the level of his sensory skills will be one of the big deciding factors in this fight. And minato with his on off sensory skills isn't enough to predict amaterasu Shots etc. Him having knowledge on Madara which is probably in konoha history books on Uchiha . Developing a contract seal to stop mangekyou control ? Lets get proof for that

I can't belive that someone like you is still using Amaterasu as an argument here.The argument of Amaterasu died ever since Minato pulled this feat.

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Using Amaterasu on a S/T user is literally useless.It isn't going to do anything even if Ama managed to hit him.

 

[RicardoA]

Lel, it escalated into a Minato vs Itachi. Who could see it coming

OT: No intel is a problem here for Tobirama, but since he uses clones i don't see him being the careless type.
Its just a matter of time until he gets all the intel he needs and proceeds to wear down Itachi.
Tobirama wins imo.

 

[Tobby17]

Tobirama was kneading chakra when orochimaru revived him, yet he did not sense Madara's chakra until Orochimaru told him. So it's not just about kneading chakra, it's about concentration. Tobirama wasn't concentrating on sensing, despite raising his chakra moments before. The same with minato, he was moulding chakra (rasengan) but did not sense Naruto until Kurama alerted him. So it's the same for both sides..

plz don't even compare the both, Tobirama was busy trying to intimidate Sasuke and what not. Minato was DURING battle, how does one lose concentration during battle?. Tobirama has been sensing ever since they started fighting, Minato though, was stupid enough to seal Kurama into black Zetsu, and this was DURING battle.


the both situations are not even remotely close

 

[Bogard]

plz don't even compare the both, Tobirama was busy trying to intimidate Sasuke and what not. Minato was DURING battle, how does one lose concentration during battle?. Tobirama has been sensing ever since they started fighting, Minato though, was stupid enough to seal Kurama into black Zetsu, and this was DURING battle.


the both situations are not even remotely close

Zetsu can't be sensed [

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]. It has nothing to do with intelligence, and if we were to go like that, i could also say Tobirama was stupid enough not to sense Orochimaru had his bro cells, even Hashirama said that [

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]. He also failed to notice Hiruzen's approach [

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] I always find it funny that you people try to downplay one and ignore the other

 

[Strict]

minato with his on off sensory skills isn't enough to predict amaterasu Shots etc.

But Tobirama's is?

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[Gold Lightning]

plz don't even compare the both, Tobirama was busy trying to intimidate Sasuke and what not. Minato was DURING battle, how does one lose concentration during battle?. Tobirama has been sensing ever since they started fighting, Minato though, was stupid enough to seal Kurama into black Zetsu, and this was DURING battle.


the both situations are not even remotely close

This isn't even worth a decent reply with your bias one sided arguments U_U