Itachi still above Kakashi?

[elsepa]

Itachi would have soloed Obito

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[Minator93]

Haha love how people claim Kamui can't be stopped.. FYI Kamui cancels Kamui and Yata will change to Kamui thus reflecting it. NOT BLOCKING it as the databook say but reflecting it.

Kakashi outsmarted a 30% Itachi clone who lacked full strength, abilities, and skills as stated in the manga(Not just chakra) Even then without naruto kakashi would have died.

Next, Kakashi fighting a full Itachi lost the fight instantly and was in a coma for a week

Yata stopping a space-time continuum?? Lol What's next Konohamru soloing Obito

Again there's no defense against Kakashi's Kamui, the only way to cancel it ever was Obito's Kamui but Obito has lost that ability thus making Kakashi's Kamui truly invincible!! Even The Juubi yes the GOD Juubi is nothing compared to his Kamui

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[Tendou00]

Manga and databook facts :

-Itachi part 1 won against Kakashi for only few reasons : Kakashi babysitting Kurenai and asuma (he saved them against Itachi's and Kisame attacks), but main reason is MS vs regular sharingan, also he won because he's new vilain, to show us what he's capable of...As he did it with Deva path again against Kakashi.

- Part 2, Itachi is shocked about Kakashi's awaken of MS.Itachi part 2 controled his 30% clone and still lost against Kakashi who used a 50% clone too.He used genjtusu on Kakashi's clone but Kakashi's clone still blocked and trapped Itachi's clone after the genjutsu.

-Itachi is died

-Kakashi mastered kamui, increased stanima, improved in everything, taijutsu, speed etc...

Now a fight current Kakashi vs Itachi, Kakashi win no doubt.

He has all the knowledge about susanoo,tsukiyomi and amaterasu whereas Itachi doesn't know much about Kakashi arsenal.Also Kishi was clear in his databook, against kamui no defense is possible, Yata is defensive so it doesn't works.

Kakashi > Itachi

 

[Bogard]

Nonsense, when Obito fought Kakashi with merely close combat, being totally exhausted from the war while Kakashi got several replenishments with Kyuubi's Chakra. Kakashi already was near death before Kurama himself gave Kakashi Chakra.

Itachi has still Tsukuyomi, he can still one shot Kakashi with Amaterasu (but somehow this argument isn't legit while Kamui is) and can use Susanoo for protection. Absorbing an object of Susanoo's size would give Itachi enough time to react with Amaterasu. Overall, Itachi is still more skilled than Kakashi. While Kakashi can only rely on his Kamui, Itachi proves superiority in speed and analytical battle skills, and combines his precise and fast fighting style with several feints and Genjutsu.

Let's not beat about the bush. Itachi beats Kakashi. Itachi would even have the edge in means of stamina, as his strong Uchiha Chakra decreases the drain of Chakra. When against Sasuke, Itachi already was at the blink of his death; deadly sick and almost blind, stopped taking the medication which kept him actually alive. And yet, he used more Mangekyo techniques than Kakashi before running out of Chakra.

There is actually no proof that Obito was exhausted and he has shown no sign of exhaustion while they were in that dimension. It's just an excuse that you came up with to try to deny the fact he got owned.

Kakashi on the other side while having received Kyubi's chakra, it disppeared the moment they entered in the dimension because the Kamui dimension has no link with the real world, stopping Naruto's transferred chakra to connect.

You can even notice that the cloak vanished when they entered in the dimension and when Naruto pumped in the cloak again on the Shinobi alliance, notice it didn't appear on Kakashi, proving once again, that it lost the connection, so Kakashi had no supplement on chakra like you claim. He was the one exhausted with barely chakra in the end and still came up on top in their mini-fight. Amaterasu is never one-shoting Kakashi when he has a jutsu that absorbs everything. It will absorb the black flames even if it were to touch him.

On the other side, Itachi has no counter for Kamui. He isn't getting defeated by tsukuyomi either, not only because he knows how to fight Itachi now(like we've seen in part2), but now that he mastered his MS, it's even doubtful it would work when databook stated high level mastery of Sharingan can allow you to break it, when he managed to compete with a perfect Jinchuriki controller in the category

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

U know this is going to be an endless war between this topic so guess what unless kishi says who would win on this matter there is no victor so all of u calm down

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[Zebstrika]

Kakashi's Kamui is a terrible strategy to use against someone who frequently uses clone feints. To make matters worse, Itachi can perform techniques faster than the sharingan can keep up.

Only an idiot would defend Kakashi in this fight (which is no surprise Lol).

 

[ayesha161]

In all honesty, Kakashi is no match for Itachi.

Itachi's Tsukuyomi will finish Kakashi once again.

 

[Oblivionx]

Yata makes Kamui useless, then Totsuka Blitz.

hahahaha! God you are funny....! genjutsu doesn't work on kakashi anymore ya know...!

 

[Strict]

There is actually no proof that Obito was exhausted and he has shown no sign of exhaustion while they were in that dimension. It's just an excuse that you came up with to try to deny the fact he got owned.

Kakashi on the other side while having received Kyubi's chakra, it disppeared the moment they entered in the dimension because the Kamui dimension has no link with the real world, stopping Naruto's transferred chakra to connect.

You can even notice that the cloak vanished when they entered in the dimension and when Naruto pumped in the cloak again on the Shinobi alliance, notice it didn't appear on Kakashi, proving once again, that it lost the connection, so Kakashi had no supplement on chakra like you claim. He was the one exhausted with barely chakra in the end and still came up on top in their mini-fight. Amaterasu is never one-shoting Kakashi when he has a jutsu that absorbs everything. It will absorb the black flames even if it were to touch him.

On the other side, Itachi has no counter for Kamui. He isn't getting defeated by tsukuyomi either, not only because he knows how to fight Itachi now(like we've seen in part2), but now that he mastered his MS, it's even doubtful it would work when databook stated high level mastery of Sharingan can allow you to break it, when he managed to compete with a perfect Jinchuriki controller in the category

Hear yourself, Bogard. Kakashi got his Chakra replenished thrice while Obito fought without a break. Even if he still got the Chakra, in the Kamui dimension, his Kamui would be ineffective as he would basically transfer his physical body to the war place to dodge an attack of Kakashi. You try to put Kakashi above Itachi by using the victory of Kakashi over Obito based on Taijutsu with weaponry, former even using Ninjutsu.

At a point it was said that only blood relatives with the Sharingan can break Tsukuyomi (canon), there is no basis to discuss.

Your counter for Kamui is nothing but a joke. Amaterasu is cast right at the target, so Kakashi isn't gonna absorb the flames. Once he is burned he either use Izanagi like Obito back then, who also had Kamui, or he dies. I'm really tired to discuss with you simple things which were already put in canon. Itachi planned to kill Obito with this Amaterasu, very well knowing his ability. Luckily, he saved the secret of Senju DNA from Itachi. So in fact, Amaterasu is the counterpart to Kakashi's Kamui.

So where lies the difference? The difference is, that Itachi is fast enough to even surpass the Sharingan's sight for some extent, using techniques the Sharingan of the opponent cannot always follow. Furthermore, techniques to distract Kakashi and to gain time are found in Itachi's arsenal.

When Kakashi activates the Mangekyo Sharingan, Itachi can summon crows to distract Kakashi and entangling his vision [

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] while even casting Genjutsu [

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].

Finally, Kakashi isn't known for fighting an opponent without looking at his eyes effectively, he merely noted eye contact is not allowed while Sakura on the other hand stated it wouldn't be an easy task, since looking into the opponents eyes is a matter of habit. In addition, Genjutsu are not only cast with the eyes by Itachi, he could use his finger as well or use the Genjutsu through the eyes. In Kakashi disadvantageous position, eye contact would easily be provoked with one of Itachi's fast feints, what appeared to Kakashi's clone as well (there is no guarantee Kakashi will always use Bunshin's. So Itachi can use Bunshins).

So finally only two choices are left for Kakashi. Closing his eyes complete like Kabuto did, or try to follow Itachi by only looking at his feet, what seems rather ridiculous and wouldn't even help for long, as we would consider Itachi to only fight with Taijutsu. Being at such a position poses a huge disadvantage for Kakashi, when Jiraiya stated that even sensor Ninja wouldn't be able to fight and react properly without seeing attacks directly.

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Itachi would make advantage of Kakashi's position to give him the fatal blow easily in the next turns, considering his speed, feints and other abilities I don't even need to give full particulars to. So your whole argument for Genjutsu, in actuality, is pure hyperbole based on your bias and limited view.

Your whole argument is actually based on one technique you give all hope in, Kamui. While Itachi has a lot to offer to exert pressure on Kakashi and beat him with one attack (Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Totsuka, latter able to blitz Kakashi while Itachi is protected by a huge Chakra entity like Susanoo, which is absorbed anything but fast).

Itachi obviously takes this, any other opinion is based on limited views or bias. But as always, you didn't learn anything.

 

[Stark]

hahahaha! God you are funny....! genjutsu doesn't work on kakashi anymore ya know...!

Oh it doesn't now? How do you know, you're Kishi?

 

[shelke]

Well at least I know my orientation. But you, you sir are torn between your butt-buddies and that pedo bf of yours. But hey before you take your decision think about it real hard okay, I think that pedo bear really likes you.

OT: Itachi has no defense against Kakashi's Kamui and he's already been outsmarted by Kakashi twice, so its clear as a day that Kakashi takes this.

Are you ACTUALLY trying to validate your orientation in front of a random dude over the internet? Are you this mentally retarded? LOL First you pull stuff straight out of your ass, and then you actually endeavour, no persevere, to authenticate it? Christ Almighty, I have never laughed this hard on the base. Keep em coming. In fact, the more I will prod you, the more it would galvanize your sub-par brain into producing gems.

OP - Yata Mirror alters all properties and renders any technique ineffective. Itachi takes this fairly easily. Outsmarted my ass. Probably needs to open a good dictionary.

 

[Oblivionx]

Oh it doesn't now? How do you know, you're Kishi?

why do you think itachi said to sasuke "come before me when you have same eyes as me".. why do you think sasuke said to edo itachi "that (genjutsu) doesn't work on me anymore...! why do you think itachi didn't cast his genjutsu on obito.. how do you think kakashi was able to keep up with obito in genjutsu....? how do you think obito controlled a jin...? why do you think genjutsu is never used against a MS user in entire manga...? no wait it was used against sasuke by raikage's guard and he broke it neg diff...! why do you think when kakashi encountered itachi in shippuden and said that "itachi san it won't go the same way as it did last time" and itachi replyed "kakashi san you couldn't have" what? awakened MS sharingan...! well i don't need to go on i think...!

 

[Prince Charles]

Fight could go either way, both have techs to end this fight.

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

Are you ACTUALLY trying to validate your orientation in front of a random dude over the internet? Are you this mentally retarded? LOL First you pull stuff straight out of your ass, and then you actually endeavour, no persevere, to authenticate it? Christ Almighty, I have never laughed this hard on the base. Keep em coming. In fact, the more I will prod you, the more it would galvanize your sub-par brain into producing gems.

OP - Yata Mirror alters all properties and renders any technique ineffective. Itachi takes this fairly easily. Outsmarted my ass. Probably needs to open a good dictionary.

Altering properties and rendering any technique ineffective? LOL! Another of, fallacious statement, made by none other than, /Databook 3, LOL! The same of databook, that said "Sasuke = Invincible", and "Haku = Faster than Light", amirite?

How is the weapon, being a "spirit weapon of no form", able to, accompany, itachi's susano'O, which is hardened chakra?

 

[Bogard]

Hear yourself, Bogard. Kakashi got his Chakra replenished thrice while Obito fought without a break. Even if he still got the Chakra, in the Kamui dimension, his Kamui would be ineffective as he would basically transfer his physical body to the war place to dodge an attack of Kakashi. You try to put Kakashi above Itachi by using the victory of Kakashi over Obito based on Taijutsu with weaponry, former even using Ninjutsu.

First of, Kakashi only got chakra 2times, and he got it after fighting much more longer than Obito. He fought during 2days long:

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Chakra doesn't heal, it doesn't remove fatigue and so on. Obito on the other side not only is a Uchiha(so can use Sharingan without drawbacks like Kakashi), but on top of that has Senju DNA that allows him to live without even eating at all, in order words, his stamina is absolute:

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There is absolute no proof he was tired if not in your imagination. The funniest thing is that you talk about Obito's incapacity to use Kamui forgetting Kakashi was in the same situation as well

At a point it was said that only blood relatives with the Sharingan can break Tsukuyomi (canon), there is no basis to discuss.

Except Itachi only said that from his knowledge. It's not as if Itachi used to fight non-Uchiha with Sharingan all his life. He had no idea a non-Uchiha could even attain MS like he was litterally shocked when Kakashi hinted him about his vision. [

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] So Itachi's saying is not absolute and i see no reason why Kakashi couldn't break tsukuyomi when databook states otherwise

Sharingan is the Kekkei Genkai of the clan labelled as the most powerful, the Uchiha clan. Even among those who have Sharingan, that jutsu cannot be operated without having Mangekyou, which is its culminating point. Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors... And even then, exclusively the elite shinobi who have reached particularly high degrees of skillfulness. Once could say this is truly a God-given jutsu solely allowed to those blessed with Uchiha blood and prodigious aptitudes.

Your counter for Kamui is nothing but a joke. Amaterasu is cast right at the target, so Kakashi isn't gonna absorb the flames. Once he is burned he either use Izanagi like Obito back then, who also had Kamui, or he dies. I'm really tired to discuss with you simple things which were already put in canon. Itachi planned to kill Obito with this Amaterasu, very well knowing his ability. Luckily, he saved the secret of Senju DNA from Itachi. So in fact, Amaterasu is the counterpart to Kakashi's Kamui.

You assume Obito used Izanagi to counter Amaterasu without taking into consideration the possibility that it could have been kamui that warped the flames, and you talk about my counter being a joke? No it's your reply which is a joke, especially since it couldn't have been Izanagi since the jutsu requires handseals to be executed [

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] [

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], and Izanagi doesn't repair damages that are already there before activation [

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] [

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], so being burnt like he was the time it takes to activate Izanagi, he could have easily warp the flames in time. No wonder you say you're tired of discussing when you spout out such nonsense.

Kakashi can absorb Amaterasu whether it's on his body or not since like the databook explained, the location of the black hole depends on the user.

Kakashi's original doujutsu, released from the "Mangekyou Sharingan". It allows one to transfer anything to another dimension. If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked. The target is enveloped with a barrier space, and the user concentrates their mind to what they gaze at... The target can struggle helplessly, but against this technique no defence is possible. No matter what, the space will distort and draw the target in.

[picture of Kakashi's Mangekyou Sharingan]
→One glare with the "Mangekyou Sharingan". The barrier's location and size can be specified at will.

Reason why he is capable to teleport himself now since he is capable to create a hole around himself allowing him to teleport. [

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] [

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] There is absolute no reason why he couldn't warp Amaterasu judging by the description of the jutsu and the way it was employed so far in the manga especially since it has shown no problems to warp the flames before(there was already a previous encounter between Kakashi and the black flames before and he activated his MS in order to warp it)

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So where lies the difference? The difference is, that Itachi is fast enough to even surpass the Sharingan's sight for some extent, using techniques the Sharingan of the opponent cannot always follow. Furthermore, techniques to distract Kakashi and to gain time are found in Itachi's arsenal.

Yes he can do that, but the funniest thing is that not only his Bunshin feints never worked against Kakashi who recognised his explosive Bunshin and helped Kurenai, but he is the one who got fooled by Kakashi's clone in more than one occasion(the water clone Itachi attacked in part1 without knowing or the clone Kakashi used on his replica in part2 without him knowing), so nothing implies Itachi could fool Kakashi with his feints, more like the contrary

Finally, Kakashi isn't known for fighting an opponent without looking at his eyes effectively, he merely noted eye contact is not allowed while Sakura on the other hand stated it wouldn't be an easy task, since looking into the opponents eyes is a matter of habit. In addition, Genjutsu are not only cast with the eyes by Itachi, he could use his finger as well or use the Genjutsu through the eyes. In Kakashi disadvantageous position, eye contact would easily be provoked with one of Itachi's fast feints, what appeared to Kakashi's clone as well (there is no guarantee Kakashi will always use Bunshin's. So Itachi can use Bunshins).

Wrong. His clone he sent was avoiding eye contact with Itachi while fighting easily against him in close combat. It's Itachi the one who was forced to push the clone(not knowing it's one) to make eye contact with him by grabbing him from the back of his neck. [

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] So you're wrong, Kakashi knows how to fight without eye contact.

Furthermore, his weak genjutsus aren't working against a Sharingan user like he said himself(visual genjutsu doesn't work against other one), especially when said opponent was capable to compete with a perfect Jinchuriki controller in the category, so excuse me for not taking this part of your post seriously

Your whole argument is actually based on one technique you give all hope in, Kamui. While Itachi has a lot to offer to exert pressure on Kakashi and beat him with one attack (Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and Totsuka, latter able to blitz Kakashi while Itachi is protected by a huge Chakra entity like Susanoo, which is absorbed anything but fast).

And where does it hurt you? As long as Itachi has no counter against Kamui, why won't i talk about it? Aren't you also the one relying on MS techniques in this debate? Whether it's tsukuyomi, Amaterasu or Susanoo, they are MS techniques. You're debating around MS techniques and i won't talk about it? Don't make me laugh

Itachi obviously takes this, any other opinion is based on limited views or bias. But as always, you didn't learn anything.

More like the contrary. Anyone who don't live in the past and read the war should notice Kakashi surpassed him a while ago

 

[UchiGod Itachi]

First of, Kakashi only got chakra 2times, and he got it after fighting much more longer than Obito. He fought during 2days long:

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Chakra doesn't heal, it doesn't remove fatigue and so on. Obito on the other side not only is a Uchiha(so can use Sharingan without drawbacks like Kakashi), but on top of that has Senju DNA that allows him to live without even eating at all, in order words, his stamina is absolute:

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There is absolute no proof he was tired if not in your imagination. The funniest thing is that you talk about Obito's incapacity to use Kamui forgetting Kakashi was in the same situation as well

Except Itachi only said that from his knowledge. It's not as if Itachi used to fight non-Uchiha with Sharingan all his life. He had no idea a non-Uchiha could even attain MS like he was litterally shocked when Kakashi hinted him about his vision. [

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] So Itachi's saying is not absolute and i see no reason why Kakashi couldn't break tsukuyomi when databook states otherwise



You assume Obito used Izanagi to counter Amaterasu without taking into consideration the possibility that it could have been kamui that warped the flames, and you talk about my counter being a joke? No it's your reply which is a joke, especially since it couldn't have been Izanagi since the jutsu requires handseals to be executed [

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] [

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], and Izanagi doesn't repair damages that are already there before activation [

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] [

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], so being burnt like he was the time it takes to activate Izanagi, he could have easily warp the flames in time. No wonder you say you're tired of discussing when you spout out such nonsense.

Kakashi can absorb Amaterasu whether it's on his body or not since like the databook explained, the location of the black hole depends on the user.



Reason why he is capable to teleport himself now since he is capable to create a hole around himself allowing him to teleport. [

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] [

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] There is absolute no reason why he couldn't warp Amaterasu judging by the description of the jutsu and the way it was employed so far in the manga especially since it has shown no problems to warp the flames before(there was already a previous encounter between Kakashi and the black flames before and he activated his MS in order to warp it)

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Yes he can do that, but the funniest thing is that not only his Bunshin feints never worked against Kakashi who recognised his explosive Bunshin and helped Kurenai, but he is the one who got fooled by Kakashi's clone in more than one occasion(the water clone Itachi attacked in part1 without knowing or the clone Kakashi used on his replica in part2 without him knowing), so nothing implies Itachi could fool Kakashi with his feints, more like the contrary

Wrong. His clone he sent was avoiding eye contact with Itachi while fighting easily against him in close combat. It's Itachi the one who was forced to push the clone(not knowing it's one) to make eye contact with him by grabbing him from the back of his neck. [

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] So you're wrong, Kakashi knows how to fight without eye contact.

Furthermore, his weak genjutsus aren't working against a Sharingan user like he said himself(visual genjutsu doesn't work against other one), especially when said opponent was capable to compete with a perfect Jinchuriki controller in the category, so excuse me for not taking this part of your post seriously


And where does it hurt you? As long as Itachi has no counter against Kamui, why won't i talk about it? Aren't you also the one relying on MS techniques in this debate? Whether it's tsukuyomi, Amaterasu or Susanoo, they are MS techniques. You're debating around MS techniques and i won't talk about it? Don't make me laugh

More like the contrary. Anyone who don't live in the past and read the war should notice Kakashi surpassed him a while ago

LMAO Senju DNA Stamina Absolute bullshit

1.Why was yamato warn out

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2.Kakashi had rest

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Lmao you forgot the part were sakura healed him

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Were ino saved him

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were kurama gave him chakra

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Kurama gave him chakra again

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Katsuya confirmed everyone still kurama chakra

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naruto saved him

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Naruto saves him again

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Kakashi isn't on Itachi or obito lvl foh


Shisui gave his eye activated with Kotoamatsukami to itachi he's already used it before if it needed to recharge

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Here Itachi claim it as his power

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Itachi wins no diff

 

[Bogard]

LMAO Senju DNA Stamina Absolute bullshit

1.Why was yamato warn out

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2.Kakashi had rest

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Lmao you forgot the part were sakura healed him

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Were ino saved him

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were kurama gave him chakra

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Kurama gave him chakra again

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Katsuya confirmed everyone still kurama chakra

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naruto saved him

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Naruto saves him again

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Kakashi isn't on Itachi or obito lvl foh


Shisui gave his eye activated with Kotoamatsukami to itachi he's already used it before if it needed to recharge

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Here Itachi claim it as his power

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Itachi wins no diff

Not as if i care about your opinion anyway since i already know that no matter how hard i'd try to explain shit to you, it would be like talking to a wall when Itachi is involved U_U

 

[Penguin]

Kakashi wins high diff.

 

[sirius49]

Current Kakashi is transcendental omnipotent creator of infinite omnivers because kamui gave infinite power .
Itachi is not even on Obito's league.

When Kakashi was not in 5% his prime like in part 1, Itachi would win with MS but current Kakashi in trascendental omnipotent (kamui) mode it's an other story.

Kakashi >>>>> itachi

 

[UchiGod Itachi]

@ Bogard

Like i said there's no flaw in perfection kakashi didn't solo none saved by ino,saved by naruto x3 , saved kurama , given chakra 2x healed once he didn't beat no obito he get smashed on if he did that's not his own feature he's been helped mostly along the way