[Discussion] Is Luffy way stronger than Zoro?

[Ace of the fire fist]

Some of you are insane.

Zoro has no answer to Gear Fouth, it's the speed of gear second and the power of third. Fast enough to catch Doflamingo off guard and durable enough to swallow Cracker's sword without losing a drop of blood.

Zoro has shown nothing that comes close to that in both speed or power. The only thing I keep reading is "He hasn't gone all out" But we also don't know if he has 5% left or 50%.

Zoro has shown nothing because he hasn't had the opportunity to show anything. Luffy is obviously stronger, but the gap shouldn't be as big as you're making it based on their prior portrayal and eventual final standings. Zoro will end the manga at Yonko level, he will be > Mihawk who is > Shanks. That is overwhelmingly strong. Luffy will be stronger than that, but Luffy won't be able to STOMP a Yonko calibre fighter ever. You inferring he gets stomped is quite laughable. They grow together throughout the series, that's how it's always been and that's how it will remain.

 

[Easyfathom]

Zoro has shown nothing because he hasn't had the opportunity to show anything. Luffy is obviously stronger, but the gap shouldn't be as big as you're making it based on their prior portrayal and eventual final standings. Zoro will end the manga at Yonko level, he will be > Mihawk who is > Shanks. That is overwhelmingly strong. Luffy will be stronger than that, but Luffy won't be able to STOMP a Yonko calibre fighter ever. You inferring he gets stomped is quite laughable. They grow together throughout the series, that's how it's always been and that's how it will remain.

He had an opportunity with Fujitora... If Oda thought he was anywhere close to that level, he would have let Zoro fight him.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

He had an opportunity with Fujitora... If Oda thought he was anywhere close to that level, he would have let Zoro fight him.

Major reach. That was a minor little spar, nothing more and nothing less. That wasn't the time or place for Zoro to be fighting Fujitora, it wasn't relevant to the straw hats mission which is to dethrone Doffy.

 

[Love Cook]

Zoro has shown nothing because he hasn't had the opportunity to show anything. Luffy is obviously stronger, but the gap shouldn't be as big as you're making it based on their prior portrayal and eventual final standings. Zoro will end the manga at Yonko level, he will be > Mihawk who is > Shanks. That is overwhelmingly strong. Luffy will be stronger than that, but Luffy won't be able to STOMP a Yonko calibre fighter ever. You inferring he gets stomped is quite laughable. They grow together throughout the series, that's how it's always been and that's how it will remain.

joke post with at least twice assuming someones power to establish Zoro's power. And to top it off you already projecting that power on Zoro now. Also I've never said stomped. That is just you putting words in my mouth.

The only thing I said, he doesn't have the speed feats to keep up with Luffy. Add the superior CoO to it and Zoro is in trouble. And Luffy has also developed his CoA to the point where he can just swallow piercing attacks. Doflamingo's heel attack and Cracker's entire sword.

How would Zoro counter a King Kong gun ? Doflamingo was unable to cut through that haki, are you implying that Zoro now is way beyond Doflamingo ?

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[Big Mom]

joke post with at least twice assuming someones power to establish Zoro's power. And to top it off you already projecting that power on Zoro now. Also I've never said stomped. That is just you putting words in my mouth.

The only thing I said, he doesn't have the speed feats to keep up with Luffy. Add the superior CoO to it and Zoro is in trouble. And Luffy has also developed his CoA to the point where he can just swallow piercing attacks. Doflamingo's heel attack and Cracker's entire sword.

How would Zoro counter a King Kong gun ? Doflamingo was unable to cut through that haki, are you implying that Zoro now is way beyond Doflamingo ?

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Zoro can definitely cut through more than doffy

 

[Love Cook]

Zoro can definitely cut through more than doffy

I'm not confident enough to put Zoro over Doflamingo because there is nothing that supports that. But ok, can he also cut through more than Cracker who is an actual swordsman ? And even if that answer is yes. Can he cut through that much to make Luffy cancel is his attack ?

 

[Big Mom]

I'm not confident enough to put Zoro over Doflamingo because there is nothing that supports that. But ok, can he also cut through more than Cracker who is an actual swordsman ? And even if that answer is yes. Can he cut through that much to make Luffy cancel is his attack ?

I'm not saying he can beat doffy. I don't think he can, but he can definitely cut through more substances than doffy

Edit: and I wouldn't say he beats g4 Laffy w/o future observation but on same tier

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

joke post with at least twice assuming someones power to establish Zoro's power. And to top it off you already projecting that power on Zoro now. Also I've never said stomped. That is just you putting words in my mouth.

The only thing I said, he doesn't have the speed feats to keep up with Luffy. Add the superior CoO to it and Zoro is in trouble. And Luffy has also developed his CoA to the point where he can just swallow piercing attacks. Doflamingo's heel attack and Cracker's entire sword.

How would Zoro counter a King Kong gun ? Doflamingo was unable to cut through that haki, are you implying that Zoro now is way beyond Doflamingo ?

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What in the world are you talking about? I'm not here to discuss feats with anyone, because discussing feat for feat against someone who hasn't shown their full arsenal is unfair and on your part, dishonest. The basis of my argument is portrayal and the hierarchy Oda has established throughout the series. Zoro will end the series as a fighter stronger than Mihawk who is > Shanks. Any argument you have as to why Zoro can't defend against G4 is baseless and your opinion, until we see what he's capable of. Sorry, but for them to be close in power early in the series and for Luffy to all of sudden create this massive gap between him a man who is going to be Yonko level along with him one day makes absolutely zero sense, as they've consistently grown together throughout the entire series. When Luffy gets a power up, Zoro and Sanji also get a power up, this is how it works. Luffy is definitely the stronger man, we get that, but your proposition is extremely premature.

And if you don't think Zoro gets stomped, what difficulty would your get instincts tell you he loses at? Because you most certainly make it seem like he doesn't stand a chance and I'm saying he would lose, but at a very high difficulty. If you agree with high difficulty, then I don't see why you would respond in the first place. And btw, you lose credibility when you begin saying shit like Doffy has more cutting potential than a swordsman of Zoro's calibre.

 

[kiiro]

If Luffy is a 100, Zoro is a 95

 

[Love Cook]

What in the world are you talking about? I'm not here to discuss feats with anyone, because discussing feat for feat against someone who hasn't shown their full arsenal is unfair and on your part, dishonest. The basis of my argument is portrayal and the hierarchy Oda has established throughout the series. Zoro will end the series as a fighter stronger than Mihawk who is > Shanks. Any argument you have as to why Zoro can't defend against G4 is baseless and your opinion, until we see what he's capable of. Sorry, but for them to be close in power early in the series and for Luffy to all of sudden create this massive gap between him a man who is going to be Yonko level along with him one day makes absolutely zero sense, as they've consistently grown together throughout the entire series. When Luffy gets a power up, Zoro and Sanji also get a power up, this is how it works. Luffy is definitely the stronger man, we get that, but your proposition is extremely premature.

And if you don't think Zoro gets stomped, what difficulty would your get instincts tell you he loses at? Because you most certainly make it seem like he doesn't stand a chance and I'm saying he would lose, but at a very high difficulty. If you agree with high difficulty, then I don't see why you would respond in the first place. And btw, you lose credibility when you begin saying shit like Doffy has more cutting potential than a swordsman of Zoro's calibre.

You keep saying that Zoro gets stomped, I'll say it again I never said that, you keep putting that word in my mouth.

Also you seem to have it all figured out, why make this thread in the first place when you're not willing to discuss feats. I can't help it you create this thread at this point in time, we can only discuss what we know. That is not unfair. You go on making assumptions like Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. We've never seen anything from Shanks and we've barely seen anything from Mihawk. But sure, you have already figured it out.

So in your opinion it's unfair to use current feats, and instead use the end of series power as a benchmark. Well if anything is unfair it's doing it that way. Pure speculation.

Talking about power-ups, Luffy received multiple power-ups, where is Zoro's power-up ? Is Sanji's raid suit a power-up ? He didn't even put it on yet. Will a new sword be a power-up on Wano ? We don't know anything about that, yet you assume the gap will always stay the same. He will always be the number two, but he can also be a number two at a large margin.

If I would predict how a fight would end now, Luffy would win at a medium/hard difficulty. He has superior speed, power, haki. So I really don't know what argument can be made in Zoro's favor to last very long.

I never said Doffy has more cutting potential, that is again you putting words in my mouth. But Doflamingo is not some kind of 3rd rate gimp, and he got swatted like a fly when the King Kong gun came out, There was no stopping that. So if someone on Doffy's level is already crushed, how much stronger does Zoro need to be to block that ? And is it realistic to say that Zoro is that much stronger than Doflamingo ?

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Zoro would stomp pre gear-4th luffy.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

You keep saying that Zoro gets stomped, I'll say it again I never said that, you keep putting that word in my mouth.

Also you seem to have it all figured out, why make this thread in the first place when you're not willing to discuss feats. I can't help it you create this thread at this point in time, we can only discuss what we know. That is not unfair. You go on making assumptions like Mihawk is stronger than Shanks. We've never seen anything from Shanks and we've barely seen anything from Mihawk. But sure, you have already figured it out.

So in your opinion it's unfair to use current feats, and instead use the end of series power as a benchmark. Well if anything is unfair it's doing it that way. Pure speculation.

Talking about power-ups, Luffy received multiple power-ups, where is Zoro's power-up ? Is Sanji's raid suit a power-up ? He didn't even put it on yet. Will a new sword be a power-up on Wano ? We don't know anything about that, yet you assume the gap will always stay the same. He will always be the number two, but he can also be a number two at a large margin.

If I would predict how a fight would end now, Luffy would win at a medium/hard difficulty. He has superior speed, power, haki. So I really don't know what argument can be made in Zoro's favor to last very long.

I never said Doffy has more cutting potential, that is again you putting words in my mouth. But Doflamingo is not some kind of 3rd rate gimp, and he got swatted like a fly when the King Kong gun came out, There was no stopping that. So if someone on Doffy's level is already crushed, how much stronger does Zoro need to be to block that ? And is it realistic to say that Zoro is that much stronger than Doflamingo ?

I've asked a question. You answered it. I don't agree with your answer. It's that simple, this is why we're having this discussion.

Mihawk being stronger than Shanks is not an assumption. Shanks is a swordsman who was once Mihawks rival, and Mihawk holds the title of the WSS. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you, but the general consensus is that Mihawk is the stronger man. At the very least they're on the same tier, which doesn't distract from the fact that Zoro is going to be > Mihawk who is Yonko level. My underlying point is that for Zoro to reach such an immense level of strength like this, he cant afford to not be growing at a similar rate to Luffy, nor does it make sense for him to all of a sudden stop growing at a similar rate to Luffy when he's done so throughout the series.

Where is Zoro's power up? Refer to my original response to you. Why don't you wait until we see Zoro unleash his full strength before asking such a question. If you honestly think that for Zoro to do what he's done thus far without breaking into second gear, and not have something extraordinary up his sleeve, you're somewhat kidding yourself. He trained with best swordsman in the world for an entire 2 years; if Gordon Ramsay trained me how to cook for 2 years I'd be an elite chef. If Einstein tutored me in math I'd be a math whiz. It's the exact same concept. And yes, of course the raid suit is a power up lmfao. It's a battle suit, it's certainly not a downgrade is it.

Luffy has to become stronger than everyone else, including the Yonko, so how would his first mate not grow at rate similar to his captain in order to fulfil Luffy's requisites? Like I said, Luffy cant afford for Zoro to be much weaker than him. It goes against everything this manga has ever shown us.

Sorry mate, just because you don't say it directly it doesn't mean you didn't infer to it, which you absolutely did. "if doffy couldn't cut him......what makes you think zoro....." is literally saying that Zoro can't cut through his haki because Doffy can't. I'm not twisting anything. As for your question, I'm in no position to answer that until we see the full extent of his growth.

It seems our beliefs clash in the extent of Zoro's growth. Me personally, an already gifted swordsman training with the worlds greatest swordsman bares only one result - a MASSIVE boost in strength, not a minor one. The crew are going to Wano soon to face Kaido and his crew, and Zoro is sure to be a central character in that arc. If Zoro's below Luffy that much at this stage in the manga, then he may as well hand in his swords and go home now. Luffy and Zoro are on the same journey, and arc by arc they're facing stronger opponents and stronger opponents. This means they're both growing arc by arc. Eventually, Zoro will reach Yonko level and so will Luffy. Zoro will be stronger than a man who is widely considered to be > Shanks, so Zoro will be extremely strong. Luffy will be stronger, but the manga Oda has created wouldn't allow for one Yonko calibre fighter to "mid diff" another one. It will be an extremely hard fought battle.

 

[Love Cook]

I've asked a question. You answered it. I don't agree with your answer. It's that simple, this is why we're having this discussion.

Mihawk being stronger than Shanks is not an assumption. Shanks is a swordsman who was once Mihawks rival, and Mihawk holds the title of the WSS. Whether you agree with it or not is up to you, but the general consensus is that Mihawk is the stronger man. At the very least they're on the same tier, which doesn't distract from the fact that Zoro is going to be > Mihawk who is Yonko level. My underlying point is that for Zoro to reach such an immense level of strength like this, he cant afford to not be growing at a similar rate to Luffy, nor does it make sense for him to all of a sudden stop growing at a similar rate to Luffy when he's done so throughout the series.

Where is Zoro's power up? Refer to my original response to you. Why don't you wait until we see Zoro unleash his full strength before asking such a question. If you honestly think that for Zoro to do what he's done thus far without breaking into second gear, and not have something extraordinary up his sleeve, you're somewhat kidding yourself. He trained with best swordsman in the world for an entire 2 years; if Gordon Ramsay trained me how to cook for 2 years I'd be an elite chef. If Einstein tutored me in math I'd be a math whiz. It's the exact same concept. And yes, of course the raid suit is a power up lmfao. It's a battle suit, it's certainly not a downgrade is it.

Luffy has to become stronger than everyone else, including the Yonko, so how would his first mate not grow at rate similar to his captain in order to fulfil Luffy's requisites? Like I said, Luffy cant afford for Zoro to be much weaker than him. It goes against everything this manga has ever shown us.

Sorry mate, just because you don't say it directly it doesn't mean you didn't infer to it, which you absolutely did. "if doffy couldn't cut him......what makes you think zoro....." is literally saying that Zoro can't cut through his haki because Doffy can't. I'm not twisting anything. As for your question, I'm in no position to answer that until we see the full extent of his growth.

It seems our beliefs clash in the extent of Zoro's growth. Me personally, an already gifted swordsman training with the worlds greatest swordsman bares only one result - a MASSIVE boost in strength, not a minor one. The crew are going to Wano soon to face Kaido and his crew, and Zoro is sure to be a central character in that arc. If Zoro's below Luffy that much at this stage in the manga, then he may as well hand in his swords and go home now. Luffy and Zoro are on the same journey, and arc by arc they're facing stronger opponents and stronger opponents. This means they're both growing arc by arc. Eventually, Zoro will reach Yonko level and so will Luffy. Zoro will be stronger than a man who is widely considered to be > Shanks, so Zoro will be extremely strong. Luffy will be stronger, but the manga Oda has created wouldn't allow for one Yonko calibre fighter to "mid diff" another one. It will be an extremely hard fought battle.

Mihawk being stronger is an assumption. Yes he is a swordsman. But being the better swordsman can also mean he has the better swordsplay while Shanks is overall stronger and more versatile. Imagine if Shanks' haki is on such a level that that Mihawk is unable to cut it. That means he is the strongest swordsman, but Shanks would probably win. Or what if Shanks has a sword related devil fruit like Law, or his sword has a devil fruit like Spandam. If he loses in swordsplay to Mihawk, and he beats them with an ability does that mean he is a stronger swordsman ?

Also you like to talk about 'the manga Oda created', do you think that Luffy's rival that he has been setting up for 20 years will be just a guy with one arm and a sword. Would that be all there is to Shanks ?

And since you like titles. Mihawk is a pirate. Yonkou are the 4 strongest pirates on the seas. Shanks is a yonkou but Mihawk isn't. Doesn't that put Shanks above Mihawk if you want to be a stickler for titles ? Anyway Mihawk might be WSS but his feats are pretty lackluster so far. So to call him yonkou level based off a title is a bit much, especially after seeing all the other Shichi's go down so far.

It's fine if you don't agree with me but humor me and answer me this. Luffy enters gear fouth mode, uses his jet feet to get high up in the air. He blows some extra air in his muscles and prepares a King Kong gun. Zoro waits on the ground, Luffy fires the King Kong gun, what will Zoro do, and what happens to him ?

 

[Easyfathom]

Major reach. That was a minor little spar, nothing more and nothing less. That wasn't the time or place for Zoro to be fighting Fujitora, it wasn't relevant to the straw hats mission which is to dethrone Doffy.

An opportunity non the less and a match-up that would have easily displayed what he may be capable of.... Or show how he's not able to be on the same tier as the admirals.
Personally, I think the latter.

Zoro isn't going to go down easy... And I'm not disputing his future potential. But you're asking me about right now, and yes, strength wise he's going to be growing in the same pace as Luffy, but as it stands he's shown absolutely no way of handling his speed. And that is what makes my decision point in Luffy's way. Forget the greater CoO and possible CoA. The power and speed of G4 is too much for Zoro and anyone who reads this manga should be able to see that.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Mihawk being stronger is an assumption. Yes he is a swordsman. But being the better swordsman can also mean he has the better swordsplay while Shanks is overall stronger and more versatile. Imagine if Shanks' haki is on such a level that that Mihawk is unable to cut it. That means he is the strongest swordsman, but Shanks would probably win. Or what if Shanks has a sword related devil fruit like Law, or his sword has a devil fruit like Spandam. If he loses in swordsplay to Mihawk, and he beats them with an ability does that mean he is a stronger swordsman ?

Also you like to talk about 'the manga Oda created', do you think that Luffy's rival that he has been setting up for 20 years will be just a guy with one arm and a sword. Would that be all there is to Shanks ?

And since you like titles. Mihawk is a pirate. Yonkou are the 4 strongest pirates on the seas. Shanks is a yonkou but Mihawk isn't. Doesn't that put Shanks above Mihawk if you want to be a stickler for titles ? Anyway Mihawk might be WSS but his feats are pretty lackluster so far. So to call him yonkou level based off a title is a bit much, especially after seeing all the other Shichi's go down so far.

It's fine if you don't agree with me but humor me and answer me this. Luffy enters gear fouth mode, uses his jet feet to get high up in the air. He blows some extra air in his muscles and prepares a King Kong gun. Zoro waits on the ground, Luffy fires the King Kong gun, what will Zoro do, and what happens to him ?

Ignoring half of my post, that's not nice Love Cook.

His title isn't the worlds "best" swordsman. It's literally the worlds strongest swordsman. How would you define a swordsman? For me, it's one who uses a sword as his main weapon and centralizes his fighting style around it. Anytime Shanks has gotten into a scuffle he immediately reached for his sword. At Marineford, against Whitebeard. He is a a swordsman, and Mihawk has the title of strongest, not best. Strongest. Shanks doesn't exclude himself from comparison because his sword is clearly his primary focus surrounding his fighting style regardless of his external buffs.

Sorry, but this isn't Naruto. If you're expecting Shanks to shoot lasers of out his sword or something don't set yourself up for disappointment. Garp is one of the all time strongest fighters because his Haki is so exceptional. I expect Shanks to be the same way, an extremely talented swordsman with nigh unrivalled Haki.

This is the difference. Mihawk is excluded from being a Yonko because he doesn't have a crew nor does he care about the conventional pirate goals of attaining the One piece or ultimate power, or whatever they may seek. Mihawk cannot be an "Emperor" without his crew (crew/territory), but Shanks could be the the Worlds Strongest Swordsman if he was it. He isn't excluded from that title the same way Mihawk is excluded from being a Yonko. Yonko's are the most powerful pirates, which their crew plays a big part in.

Zoro opens his left eye and unleashes an immense demonic aura he's been charging up for 2 years and his Ashura stalemates KKG. I'm lying aren't I? Oh right, you're asking about a guy who hasn't broken into second gear yet. Your genesis of Zoro "may show 5% or 50%" is comical to me, but it's fine, whatever you say.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

An opportunity non the less and a match-up that would have easily displayed what he may be capable of.... Or show how he's not able to be on the same tier as the admirals.
Personally, I think the latter.

Zoro isn't going to go down easy... And I'm not disputing his future potential. But you're asking me about right now, and yes, strength wise he's going to be growing in the same pace as Luffy, but as it stands he's shown absolutely no way of handling his speed. And that is what makes my decision point in Luffy's way. Forget the greater CoO and possible CoA. The power and speed of G4 is too much for Zoro and anyone who reads this manga should be able to see that.

Like I said, Oda has a story to follow and him sideling it for a pointless fight which contributes nothing to the story or arc is absolutely futile.

If you acknowledge his growth cap, that's fine. Of course RIGHT NOW we cannot make the argument because we haven't seen it. This is a dead end; it's not as if Zoro's displayed everything and we can come to a mutual conclusion that: "we've seen what he's capable of and it's no where near enough to deal with his speed and precognition". Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, you could be right or I could be right. Luffy will win in G4, but I'm not convinced he goes down easy despite G4. Luffy wins high/extreme diff if we weigh up their mutual growth over the years and where they're due to end up/began. We're essentially matching a Yonko vs a Yonko here, it will never end in a mid diff.

 

[Easyfathom]

Like I said, Oda has a story to follow and him sideling it for a pointless fight which contributes nothing to the story or arc is absolutely futile.

If you acknowledge his growth cap, that's fine. Of course RIGHT NOW we cannot make the argument because we haven't seen it. This is a dead end; it's not as if Zoro's displayed everything and we can come to a mutual conclusion that: "we've seen what he's capable of and it's no where near enough to deal with his speed and precognition". Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, you could be right or I could be right. Luffy will win in G4, but I'm not convinced he goes down easy despite G4. Luffy wins high/extreme diff if we weigh up their mutual growth over the years and where they're due to end up/began. We're essentially matching a Yonko vs a Yonko here, it will never end in a mid diff.

Okay, so as we've just seen, the previous mission was to solely save sanji and escape with him. Yet, even when Luffy had managed to leave Katakuri in the mirror world and could have ran away, instead he had Luffy go head to head in some brawl that forced them to both go all out...... How is that situation different to Zoro's? They went to take Law away and Zoro if he wanted to could have unleashed that fury to keep Doffy or Fujitora from taking Law, but yet he didn't. Oda was showing you that he wasn't on par with those guys.

I don't agree that it would be high/extreme diff at all. He'd take a god damn beating, we've seen his durability, but what can he do to Luffy? He seemingly wouldn't be able to hit from what we know. Might not be a two minute fight, but Luffy should be able to win without taking any kind of significant damage. Imagine Luffy v Katakuri at the start of the fight. It'd be like that almost. Mostly one sided, but not being finished any time soon.

I will however say that when we do see his display in Wano, we're going to be talking feats and not just hype and portrayal. Think he's going to shown a massive leap in strength!

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Okay, so as we've just seen, the previous mission was to solely save sanji and escape with him. Yet, even when Luffy had managed to leave Katakuri in the mirror world and could have ran away, instead he had Luffy go head to head in some brawl that forced them to both go all out...... How is that situation different to Zoro's? They went to take Law away and Zoro if he wanted to could have unleashed that fury to keep Doffy or Fujitora from taking Law, but yet he didn't. Oda was showing you that he wasn't on par with those guys.

I don't agree that it would be high/extreme diff at all. He'd take a god damn beating, we've seen his durability, but what can he do to Luffy? He seemingly wouldn't be able to hit from what we know. Might not be a two minute fight, but Luffy should be able to win without taking any kind of significant damage. Imagine Luffy v Katakuri at the start of the fight. It'd be like that almost. Mostly one sided, but not being finished any time soon.

I will however say that when we do see his display in Wano, we're going to be talking feats and not just hype and portrayal. Think he's going to shown a massive leap in strength!

Zoro was briefly overwhelmed in a small skirmish with an Admiral. Fujitora is stronger than Zoro, but he's also stronger than Luffy. I fail to see where you're connecting these dots as they literally don't exist. Zoro has one exchange with him, got overwhelmed, and that was it. All that says is that Fuji's the stronger man. By how much, you nor I can say as it was so very brief. Like I said before, the crew will go to Wano soon and face Kaido's crew, if Zoro is still getting negged by Admirals like he was during the pre time skip, then what was the point of the 2 years training? Lets use some common sense here.

For Luffy to even go G4 in the first place means that Zoro would be giving him trouble. After that, we do not know. For Zoro to train with the WSS for 2 years and not exemplify his full power means you're speaking too soon. My argument from the start isn't based on feats, it's based on portrayal which is the logical stand point to go by. Using feats against someone who hasn't shown there's in their entirely is unfair and like I said to LC, dishonest on your behalf. "Zoro cant do this he can't do that". How do you know? What we do know, is how they're portrayed and how the manga portrays similar calibre fighters. Akainu didn't neg Kuzan. It was a 10 day war.

 

[Love Cook]

Zoro opens his left eye and unleashes an immense demonic aura he's been charging up for 2 years and his Ashura stalemates KKG. I'm lying aren't I? Oh right, you're asking about a guy who hasn't broken into second gear yet. Your genesis of Zoro "may show 5% or 50%" is comical to me, but it's fine, whatever you say.

So your reply to me on how Zoro would stop Luffy is a joke, followed up with an assumption and ends in taking a stab at me.

Well that is fine. So you basically are saying we all know that Zoro should be able to, the fact that he hasn't shown anything yet doesn't matter. He has to be close to Luffy in order to achieve his goal and he trained with Mihawk.

Maybe you will be right in 2 years from now that Zoro has a method of stopping a king kong gun when he has gotten that new mode or a power up. But I think if we're 2 years from now that Luffy also has shown something new again. Awakening or Conquerors haki, and then we're in the same boat again.

You can't judge someone now based on 'future potential'.

 

[Easyfathom]

Zoro was briefly overwhelmed in a small skirmish with an Admiral. Fujitora is stronger than Zoro, but he's also stronger than Luffy. I fail to see where you're connecting these dots as they literally don't exist. Zoro has one exchange with him, got overwhelmed, and that was it. All that says is that Fuji's the stronger man. By how much, you nor I can say as it was so very brief. Like I said before, the crew will go to Wano soon and face Kaido's crew, if Zoro is still getting negged by Admirals like he was during the pre time skip, then what was the point of the 2 years training? Lets use some common sense here.

No, Oda had Luffy directly challenge Fujitora and he hadn't even finished healing up yet! But Zoro.. Zoro barely was given a chance.. Take the indication dude... You have also stated yourself that Zoro hasn't had to be pushed yet and has no diffed each opponent so far in the NW. I agree on that... Which then that would indicate the strength difference between Luffy and Zoro. Let me explain... Luffy and Zoro both trained for 2 years and had grown in similar levels. However, Zoro has yet had to push himself since then. So if Luffy has pushed himself island after island, and has grown leaps and bounds because of it since his 2 years training, then wouldn't that now make Luffy '2 or 3 power-ups' ahead of Zoro?
Surely Zoro has just the one power-up from his training that he will soon reveal, which would show that his training was as bountiful as Luffy's, however it's Luffy's growth since then that has pushed him ahead of Zoro. Primarily his show of speed and CoO that Zoro seemingly doesn't have a counter for.

For Luffy to even go G4 in the first place means that Zoro would be giving him trouble. After that, we do not know. For Zoro to train with the WSS for 2 years and not exemplify his full power means you're speaking too soon. My argument from the start isn't based on feats, it's based on portrayal which is the logical stand point to go by. Using feats against someone who hasn't shown there's in their entirely is unfair and like I said to LC, dishonest on your behalf. "Zoro cant do this he can't do that". How do you know? What we do know, is how they're portrayed and how the manga portrays similar calibre fighters. Akainu didn't neg Kuzan. It was a 10 day war.

Of course I'm talking G4. I've not once said that Luffy would stomp him. Zoro would take a bloody beating! But I don't think G2 would have the power and G3 wouldn't have the speed (or enough power imo, much like it was with Doffy) to 100% beat Zoro. And base he would slice Luffy up... So yes, it would take G4 to sit Zoro down and because of what G4 brings to the table for Luffy, Zoro wouldn't be able to counter it and would lose.

I've not been biased or unfair. I've told you my reasoning and it's come from what's been shown in the manga up until this point. You're basically saying 10 years ago they were like this and in 10 years time they'll be like this, therefore Luffy = Zoro. What the **** is that? By portrayal, Zoro is never going to lose a fight, so if you want the real answer, Oda doesn't want to pin Zoro against someone that's either gonig to be a fight to the brink of death or that is too strong for him to beat.
Your nonsense about how he's missed out on fights because it wasn't relevant to the story is rubbish, and I gave you a perfectly good example of why. If you think Zoro was strong enough to take on Fujitora or Doffy, than he would have done so in order to stop them from taking Law. He was fresh, he wasn't tired and he had all of his swords. Yet Oda decided to have him clash with an admiral which showed he wasn't as strong as him and let them both run off with their comrade. Since the time-skip, he's yet to show us everything in my opinion, but because of that he's also not showed any growth either. Therefore he is still where he was since the time-skip an Luffy has grown so much since then! So please, other than where they will be at the EOS, tell me how exactly is Luffy >= Zoro. Because from what we've seen, Luffy right now is much stronger than Zoro and that's manga fact. Not portrayal, not hype, not predictions or opinions, but manga fact.