Is it okay for main villains to have a change of heart?

[Avani]

I'm not being offensive i don't know where you get that from. Let me clarify.
1. You basically made up a situation that is out of character in nature of Orochimaru "keep her and use her for further testing" That there is proof that you simply didn't grasp Orochimarus intents. I gave you a response. Now to my second point.
2. There is no need to be offensive. You lacked knowledge on a certain character. I said you were wrong and that's it. Me saying baseless point is me basically telling you i get what you are saying but it lacks backbone per say.

I didn't make up any situation and I can say the same for you - that you do not understand Oro. It seems you are forgetting what happened to all other experiments failed or not. Ank wasn't a failed specimen. She survived the curse sealed mark while others died.

We both were presenting our opinions and our take on a character based on how we saw the character not a sequence directly stated in the manga. It's POV difference here how we perceive it.

We can argue what could or could not happen all day long but with an attitude of 'I am right and you are wrong" and "your point is baseless" kind of statements shows little regard for the opinion of others along with a rigidity which ends any chance of proper and lengthy exchange of opinions. So yea it's a turn off for me and I do not feel like making much efforts with people with that attitude.

 

[-Sky-]

Well we were talking about 'Is it okay for main villains to have a change of heart', so I don't think giving an example of OP is kinda irrelevant here. People do compare One Piece and Naruto because they are basically based on the same concept of 'changing the world', and nothing is 'pure' or perfectly correct and I do love Naruto, but let me ask you a simple thing, what Naruto did in last chapter? He just punched Obito, when Obito said that, 'I don't want to come on your side', so how does that make him different from a protagonist who solves everything using 'punches'??
TNJ someone if they don't agree with you, then punch them, gg Naruto..:|
But let's leave it here, it's opinion at the end of the day..
Talking about Naruto, recall the number of antagonists stayed 'villains' till the end, I can hardly think about Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara and list ends(add Kabuto if you want to). I don't think none of them contributed to the story significantly to call them 'main villain', so at the end of the day point stays, Naruto is becoming repetitive. Naruto fights with main villains and then TNJ's them, same happened with Nagato, and now same is happening with Obito.:yeah:

You do realize Obito was attempting to choke him out, right? :|

I wouldn't sit there and let someone choke me either.

 

[Sir Blades]

I didn't make up any situation and I can say the same for you - that you do not understand Oro. It seems you are forgetting what happened to all other experiments failed or not.

We both were presenting our opinions and our take on a character based on how we saw the character not a sequence directly stated in the manga. It's POV difference here how we perceptive it

We can argue what could or could not happen all day long but with an attitude of 'I am right and you are wrong" and "your point is baseless" kind of statements shows little regard for the opinion of others along with a rigidity which ends any chance of proper and lengthy exchange of opinions. So yea it's a turn off for me and I do not feel like making much efforts with people with that attitude.

Go right ahead you have free will after all. Me saying you are right or wrong is also up for opinion, but you have failed to see that. Such words aren't meant to be taken on the insulting side. You most likely can't take that kind of heat.I must assume you are not experienced in debates of this sort, pity if i may say so. Enjoy the rest of your stay on the base.

 

[Avani]

Well we were talking about 'Is it okay for main villains to have a change of heart', so I don't think giving an example of OP is kinda irrelevant here. People do compare One Piece and Naruto because they are basically based on the same concept of 'changing the world', and nothing is 'pure' or perfectly correct and I do love Naruto, but let me ask you a simple thing, what Naruto did in last chapter? He just punched Obito, when Obito said that, 'I don't want to come on your side', so how does that make him different from a protagonist who solves everything using 'punches'??
TNJ someone if they don't agree with you, then punch them, gg Naruto..:|
But let's leave it here, it's opinion at the end of the day..
Talking about Naruto, recall the number of antagonists stayed 'villains' till the end, I can hardly think about Hidan, Kakuzu, Deidara and list ends(add Kabuto if you want to). I don't think none of them contributed to the story significantly to call them 'main villain', so at the end of the day point stays, Naruto is becoming repetitive. Naruto fights with main villains and then TNJ's them, same happened with Nagato, and now same is happening with Obito.:yeah:

No the concept is totally different. Blackbeard is an ambitious guy concentrating on himself and working for his goal. He may have multiple powers but his basic character is pretty simple. Unless of course the author adds something more to it at some point, but that's my current take on him.

OP world is rich, big, and fancy but story seems to be going forward to a simple basic plot - One party over threw another and took almost dictatorial power in it's own hand and deleted everything it could about the previous era. After much ups and downs for the opposing side pieces will joined up and they will know the true history and possibly restore the righteous rulers in place.

That is unless there is a big twist.. and OP is really Gol D's mustaches stored in a glass box.

 

[Rinne Maseru]

why kishi

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[P3ĮÑ]

I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a villain to have a change of heart, well even Isley who wasn't human showed a human side when he died, and even showed affection towards his family, it was a nice scene

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(yes it's from another anime, well whatever) but I don't see what the fuss is about. Some villains do not change no matter what, some do, some are left with choices and thus it goes, it happens all the time, depending on how the author portrays his villains.

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I mean freiza for instance he'd never turn good, no matter what

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[-Sky-]

I don't think it's out of the ordinary for a villain to have a change of heart, well even Isley who wasn't human showed a human side when he died, and even showed affection towards his family, it was a nice scene

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(yes it's from another anime, well whatever) but I don't see what the fuss is about. Some villains do not change no matter what, some do, some are left with choices and thus it goes, it happens all the time, depending on how the author portrays his villains.

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I mean freiza for instance he'd never turn good, no matter what

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Well said .

 

[The Sach]

You do realize Obito was attempting to choke him out, right? :|

I wouldn't sit there and let someone choke me either.

Naruto could have just released himself, and tried to use that TNJ again..:|

No the concept is totally different. Blackbeard is an ambitious guy concentrating on himself and working for his goal. He may have multiple powers but his basic character is pretty simple. Unless of course the author adds something more to it at some point, but that's my current take on him.

OP world is rich, big, and fancy but story seems to be going forward to a simple basic plot - One party over threw another and took almost dictatorial power in it's own hand and deleted everything it could about the previous era. After much ups and downs for the opposing side pieces will joined up and they will know the true history and possibly restore the righteous rulers in place.

That is unless there is a big twist.. and OP is really Gol D's mustaches stored in a glass box.

That's what I was trying to basically say here, we need simple villain.:yeah:
Talking about OP, it depends upon how you look at the things, so I rest my case on OP here.

 

[Avani]

Go right ahead you have free will after all. Me saying you are right or wrong is also up for opinion, but you have failed to see that. Such words aren't meant to be taken on the insulting side. You most likely can't take that kind of heat.I must assume you are not experienced in debates of this sort, pity if i may say so. Enjoy the rest of your stay on the base.

lol. After more than 15 years on internet and two years as a mod one gets immune to provocative/offensive heated comments. Still, it doesn't mean I have to put up with it. I discuss topic for fun not for seeking argument merely. That's a personal turn off and that's all to it. And thanks. I will.

 

[-Sky-]

Naruto could have just released himself, and tried to use that TNJ again..:|

The significance of the punch spoke for itself friend. Naruto punched Obito, Obito finally realizes this is exactly what his old self would do.

Naruto's not punching people left and right for the hell of it. Sometimes people need a good fist in the face.

 

[The Sach]

The significance of the punch spoke for itself friend. Naruto punched Obito, Obito finally realizes this is exactly what his old self would do.

Naruto's not punching people left and right for the hell of it. Sometimes people need a good fist in the face.

Yup they need and I agree, but it is against the character of Naruto who Kishi has made a lot of way 'idealistic' these days.

 

[Avani]

Naruto could have just released himself, and tried to use that TNJ again..:|

That's what I was trying basically say here, we need simple villain.:yeah:
Talking about OP, it depends upon how you look at the things, so I rest my case on OP here.

Naruto villains are too complex for you! Yea.. that ends the topic.

 

[xcoyote]

Yup they need and I agree, but it is against the character of Naruto who Kishi has made a lot of way 'idealistic' these days.

He was always like that since Land of Waves arc,you guys just failed to realize it.

 

[The Sach]

Naruto villains are too complex for you! Yea.. that ends the topic.

Ah or maybe Kishi can't create simple villains at all...

 

[Avani]

Ah or maybe Kishi can't create simple villains at all...

lmao . May be. Who knows . Good for me. If I am looking for simple villains I read Beelzebub.

 

[RiaValkyre]

I think you have a bit mussinderstanding here. He does not change his hearth no matter what he decides.... there is not polarity in this story, people follow their own ways and want their own type of good.
Naruto is not the ultimate good either, he represents only a "truth", seeing the reality or I'd say he represents "not lying to yourself" and "not cheating".
Or you could say he represents a type of freedom (kinda liberal :'D), where you need to suffer to get there (It is in the real world too, Kishi must have got the idea from our current world), unlike the people who would give up fighting for their dreams, they are OK to reach peace giving up freedom. Got it?

His hearth will still feel the same and we will still be the same person, though he changes his mind and gives up (as he stopped blocking his mind, telling himself that he is all OK with his plan) or he continues with his pain.

The real question here would be that, is that a shame for him to give up now (and is it bearable for him)... or is he like Naruto, finishing wht he started.
Will he let Naruto be right and will he stay in his shame there, accepting solitary on any ways (his plan would make him solitary and being disgraced would make him so).

Just question of views of points and what is more important for who.



Sorry, but this question has no sense in this story it is not America with black and white.

 

[~Cherry~]

It is not okay in my opinion >_>
If it happens with 1 or 2 then it is fine.But it gets annoying if it happens with every single villain in the manga.

 

[saw2097]

Its a story telling thing Kishi does, all authors have their own styles and give the stories they right a unique form, take Oda for instance, he never kills his villains off no matter how evil they are.

It is just what separates Naruto from other Shounen manga. I actually rather enjoy it, its rather refreshing.

 

[blood hound]

It would truly depend on the villains original state........
Some villains are bad from the get go with nothing but murder, chaos and destruction revolving in there minds. These sort of villains would be best stay in the drak evil path and do there best to achieve there goal.

However if the villain was good at first, or somewhat good at nature, such as obito, then I wouldnt mind if he turns good again, since that is his fist and original form.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Yeah it's totally because people in real life can regret things, it makes them feel more real/