is anime contradicting Manga or what??????????!!!!!!!

[Aznkidd]

First of all Hagoromo has chakra when he was born. He was shown doing summoning no jutsu in the manga to summon all kages and summon team 7 back from Kaguya dimension

by logic, either he has learned it by himself or he learned it from some one else

Tobirama was not born in Indra era and if Indra not teaching shadow clones no jutsu mean Tobirama was correct about his shadowclones no jutsu invention since there is 0 connection between Indra's shadow clones or Tobirama's shadow clones as it was not known to each other.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

LMfao you think Naruto wikia is fact (even though they are accurate in this case, just that you don't understand what is written) when the same site doesn't have Yang or Yin-Yang release as apart of Nagato's arsenal but has it in Obito's arsenal who had Nagato's Rin'negan.

Something about Obito, his fans and the basic comprehension of things. Have a good day.

I had to check again and um.

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Nagato is listed as a yang release user. Also if you check the rinnegan pahe or any scan the rinnegan was never stated to give the user yin-yang release maybe there's a scan saying otherwise if you could provide that maybe.

 

[SasukeSixPack]

I had to check again and um.

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Nagato is listed as a yang release user. Also if you check the rinnegan pahe or any scan the rinnegan was never stated to give the user yin-yang release maybe there's a scan saying otherwise if you could provide that maybe.

I meant to say Yin

and

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No. Naruto wikia isn't accurate.

 

[chopstickchakra]

nice trollfic

No troll, the current anime is filler I was playing on the word Fil-A of the restaurant name I also pronounce it chick filla if that gives you any context.

 

[123fire]

1. Yes there is evidence of absence because the manga already concluded. So the burden of proof is on you to prove that Indra had or made Shadow-clones.

2. That's in the real world. But in the Manga it has been made clear time and time again that New Jutsu can be developed like the Edo Tensei, like the Rasengan, and in this case shadow clones. So there is a surplus of evidence supporting the idea that Tobirama actually created the shadow clone Jutsu where as the only thing against it is speculation.

3. Character sketches doesn't mean it's cannon. If kishimoto woke up today and drew Konohamaru killing Kaguya with a rasengan does that mean it's cannon? NO. because it's not apart of the Manga Cannon.

4. They are not.

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Ninshuu = being spiritually aware and capable of the two energies within the body in the form of chakra in order to sychronize mankind

Ninjutsu = Using and developing this chakra to make techniques to kill other people.

The Creation of all things is a Rin'negan technique, not a Ninjutsu and can only be done by having the Rin'negan and access to a surpuls of chakra. Something no one else but Hagoromo would have been capable of. So that excuse doesn't work either.

Yes Indra had inventions but given the ENORMOUS AMOUNT of ninjutsu avaliable in the current day in the NV it could be anything. Saying one of his creations what the Shadow clone jutsu is an assumption and the fact that tobirama said he created it must mean he never saw it before. What did tobirama spend his whole life doing? Fighting Indra's descendants. If Indra know the shadow clone jutsu then he would have passed it on to his children then it wouldn't make any sense of him to say he created it when it would have always been around.

I interpret it wrong only because you say so? Damn, read the manga and don't annoy other people with your lack of information. How often do we have to slap you with manga panels?

Spoiler

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LMfao you think Naruto wikia is fact (even though they are accurate in this case, just that you don't understand what is written) when the same site doesn't have Yin or Yin-Yang release as apart of Nagato's arsenal but has it in Obito's arsenal who had Nagato's Rin'negan.

Something about Obito, his fans and the basic comprehension of things. Have a good day.

Ok so them Indra used ninjutsu any problem? Ninjutsu was present too it started with indra

 

[minamoto]

No troll, the current anime is filler I was playing on the word Fil-A of the restaurant name I also pronounce it chick filla if that gives you any context.

hey bro comon i was only joking with you

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Well if he can see into the future, then I don't see any reason why he won't know of BZ. As per BZ he didn't know but from Hagoromo's side no such confirmation about BZ's existence so its filler, but it is possible that Hagoromo might've known and appeared before Naruto and Sasuke when he did and gave them the seals to seal off Kaguya.
So it implies that at the least he was suspicious of BZ's existence.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

1. Yes there is evidence of absence because the manga already concluded. So the burden of proof is on you to prove that Indra had or made Shadow-clones.

2. That's in the real world. But in the Manga it has been made clear time and time again that New Jutsu can be developed like the Edo Tensei, like the Rasengan, and in this case shadow clones. So there is a surplus of evidence supporting the idea that Tobirama actually created the shadow clone Jutsu where as the only thing against it is speculation.

3. Character sketches doesn't mean it's cannon. If kishimoto woke up today and drew Konohamaru killing Kaguya with a rasengan does that mean it's cannon? NO. because it's not apart of the Manga Cannon.

4. They are not.

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Ninshuu = being spiritually aware and capable of the two energies within the body in the form of chakra in order to sychronize mankind

Ninjutsu = Using and developing this chakra to make techniques to kill other people.

The Creation of all things is a Rin'negan technique, not a Ninjutsu and can only be done by having the Rin'negan and access to a surpuls of chakra. Something no one else but Hagoromo would have been capable of. So that excuse doesn't work either.

Yes Indra had inventions but given the ENORMOUS AMOUNT of ninjutsu avaliable in the current day in the NV it could be anything. Saying one of his creations what the Shadow clone jutsu is an assumption and the fact that tobirama said he created it must mean he never saw it before. What did tobirama spend his whole life doing? Fighting Indra's descendants. If Indra know the shadow clone jutsu then he would have passed it on to his children then it wouldn't make any sense of him to say he created it when it would have always been around.

1. So you're stating that someone who can used ninjutsu like susano can't use ninjutsu like a shadow clone? I would give you the anime but you won't take that of course.

2. I agree that was a real world application but there us one notion. How would anyone know Hagoromo had all five nature techniques? Or even used it at all, sure there's the truth seeking ball I will concede to that, but one can just say he used his fan that's a sacred tool of his. But even that's a stretch, for example edo tensei existed but Hagoromo in the manga appeared to habe the ability to bring back the dead akin to edo tensei something he supposedly had in the past. In other words everything is based upon something that was already created. When you think about ot. Chidori stemming from rasengan, or phoenix fire justsu stemming from great fire ball jutsu. Just add some shaoe manipulation. There's plenty of things assumed for example we cannot prove that if Hagoromo and Hamura were equals or not it was never stated but people assume they are because they're twins which is a baseless assumption. There are plenty of things unoroven but that does not mean they are not evidence.

3. If lishi drew that and published it under Naruto's copyright then yes that would actually be canon. Otherwise it wouldn't be released to the public. For example the Itachi ******* novels are actually canon but not apart of the manga so your number three is not too accurate.

4. Kekkei genkai is a technique nobody can use eother that doesnt mean it's not ninjutsu. A texhnique that uses chakra that is weaponize is ninjutsu how are you excusing this? Anaterasu is an occular eye techniqje but is ninjutsu yet hagoromo's rinnegan techniques is essentially him weaponizing chakra but it's not ninjutsu? Are you serious or are you trolling?

Also Hagoromo and Hamura created the seals("presumably) yet that wasn't passed on. Mui created dust style yet again that was only passed to onoki and no one else. There are plenty of innovations created that aren't always passed on. There's also no evidence that he didn't, although are you telling me that Nadara essentialky copied Tobirama's shadow clone technique? The man who killed his brother? Granted that you could argue that "its still a pivotal weapon" well Sasuke has shown the skill to use shadiw clones but chooses not to use it. So there's an infinite amount of possibilities. Indra also didn't seem the tyoe to pass down secrets otherwise every Uchiha would know that he had MS or perhaps that information was lost.

You basically showed me a scan proving my point. Ninshu is the sharing of chakra there's another scan that exoanded upon it. Clearly stating that. Indra went from Ninshu to ninjutsu. Ninshu is just sharing your chakra in harmony as the manga states. If someone internalizes it and weaponizes it it is now ninjursu as your scan states. I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me from your scan.


I understand yoir point never there's there's an array of ppssibilities. Despite it all I'm not one if those people that are going to shove "filler is canon" down people's throats . I'm just herr to enjoy the anime and filler or not it's still pretty good to see Jesusromo and his (was that twelve???) disciples

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

I meant to say Yin

and

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No. Naruto wikia isn't accurate.

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Apperently it was a fourth databook issue

 

[Ansatsuken]

Wrote all long posts just to justifies non-canon materials. Clearly some people here has lost their sanity even contradicting what already established by putting more assumptions and think they are above established fact(manga and databook).

Cancer.

 

[Avani]

Again the shadow clone Jutsu is a Ninjutsu. Hagoromo did not use Ninjutsu. Here, i'll let Hagoromo respond to you himself.

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And assuming the preview is true and trying to pass it on as fact does not make it factual. It makes it an assumption with the evidence you have being personal speculation and anime filler.

"Ninshū (忍宗, Viz: Ninja Creed, Literally meaning: Shinobi Sect) is the religion and the peaceful precursor of modern ninjutsu created by Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, the first one to understand and teach the mystery of chakra. The teachings of ninshū were meant to give people a better understanding of themselves, as well as others, and lead the world into an era of peace. Ninshū would eventually come to be known as ninjutsu, a more weaponised version of the Sage's teachings. "

Didn't the war started with Indra and Asura? Did they not use any ninjutsu? So exactly how they were fighting?

Both of you are just speculating stuff that's not detailed that minutely or developed in a period of 15 years. In the least skip the insults, please.

So many variations of the shadow clone technique exist, that more people can be said to have invented them by their fans. Tobirama probably invented the variation of multiple shadow clone technique that Naruto uses( the one where he divides his chakra equally and his clones are not distinguishable from the original). Multiple shadow clones that can be identified with sharingan etc were not that perfect.

As for anime and fillers- as long as something is not contradicting manga and is just not explained there shouldn't be this much of a deal. People chose to believe what they want or the movie Last won't be considered by so many despite retconing the whole romance angle.

 

[minamoto]

"Ninshū (忍宗, Viz: Ninja Creed, Literally meaning: Shinobi Sect) is the religion and the peaceful precursor of modern ninjutsu created by Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, the first one to understand and teach the mystery of chakra. The teachings of ninshū were meant to give people a better understanding of themselves, as well as others, and lead the world into an era of peace. Ninshū would eventually come to be known as ninjutsu, a more weaponised version of the Sage's teachings. "

Didn't the war started with Indra and Asura? Did they not use any ninjutsu? So exactly how they were fighting?

Both of you are just speculating stuff that's not detailed that minutely or developed in a period of 15 years. In the least skip the insults, please.

So many variations of the shadow clone technique exist, that more people can be said to have invented them by them by their fans. Tobirama probably invented the variation of multiple shadow clone technique that Naruto uses( the one where he divides his chakra equally and his clones are not distinguishable from the original). Multiple shadow clones that can be identified with sharingan etc were not that perfect.

As for anime and fillers- as long as something is not contradicting manga and is just not explained there shouldn't be this much of a deal. People chose to believe what they want or the movie Last won't be considered by so many despite retconing the whole romance angle.

hmmmmmm..

 

[123fire]

1. Yes there is evidence of absence because the manga already concluded. So the burden of proof is on you to prove that Indra had or made Shadow-clones.

2. That's in the real world. But in the Manga it has been made clear time and time again that New Jutsu can be developed like the Edo Tensei, like the Rasengan, and in this case shadow clones. So there is a surplus of evidence supporting the idea that Tobirama actually created the shadow clone Jutsu where as the only thing against it is speculation.

3. Character sketches doesn't mean it's cannon. If kishimoto woke up today and drew Konohamaru killing Kaguya with a rasengan does that mean it's cannon? NO. because it's not apart of the Manga Cannon.

4. They are not.

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Ninshuu = being spiritually aware and capable of the two energies within the body in the form of chakra in order to sychronize mankind

Ninjutsu = Using and developing this chakra to make techniques to kill other people.

The Creation of all things is a Rin'negan technique, not a Ninjutsu and can only be done by having the Rin'negan and access to a surpuls of chakra. Something no one else but Hagoromo would have been capable of. So that excuse doesn't work either.

Yes Indra had inventions but given the ENORMOUS AMOUNT of ninjutsu avaliable in the current day in the NV it could be anything. Saying one of his creations what the Shadow clone jutsu is an assumption and the fact that tobirama said he created it must mean he never saw it before. What did tobirama spend his whole life doing? Fighting Indra's descendants. If Indra know the shadow clone jutsu then he would have passed it on to his children then it wouldn't make any sense of him to say he created it when it would have always been around.

I interpret it wrong only because you say so? Damn, read the manga and don't annoy other people with your lack of information. How often do we have to slap you with manga panels?

Spoiler

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LMfao you think Naruto wikia is fact (even though they are accurate in this case, just that you don't understand what is written) when the same site doesn't have Yin or Yin-Yang release as apart of Nagato's arsenal but has it in Obito's arsenal who had Nagato's Rin'negan.

Something about Obito, his fans and the basic comprehension of things. Have a good day.

"Ninshū (忍宗, Viz: Ninja Creed, Literally meaning: Shinobi Sect) is the religion and the peaceful precursor of modern ninjutsu created by Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, the first one to understand and teach the mystery of chakra. The teachings of ninshū were meant to give people a better understanding of themselves, as well as others, and lead the world into an era of peace. Ninshū would eventually come to be known as ninjutsu, a more weaponised version of the Sage's teachings. "

Didn't the war started with Indra and Asura? Did they not use any ninjutsu? So exactly how they were fighting?

Both of you are just speculating stuff that's not detailed that minutely or developed in a period of 15 years. In the least skip the insults, please.

So many variations of the shadow clone technique exist, that more people can be said to have invented them by their fans. Tobirama probably invented the variation of multiple shadow clone technique that Naruto uses( the one where he divides his chakra equally and his clones are not distinguishable from the original). Multiple shadow clones that can be identified with sharingan etc were not that perfect.

As for anime and fillers- as long as something is not contradicting manga and is just not explained there shouldn't be this much of a deal. People chose to believe what they want or the movie Last won't be considered by so many despite retconing the whole romance angle.

This^^^
/thread and /posts

 

[DominiqueX]

That's not the point. The point is that clone jutsu is not and has never been exclusive to one person.

Who said that this is the point? No one is talking about clones in general, but about shadow clones. There is a difference. Tobirama was said to be the person who invented explicitly shadow-clones, not any other type of clones or clones in general. Nothing in the manga speaks against this, so that's our state of legit information.

Spoiler

Indra founded the Uchiha clan and seoerayed himself from his brother who created the senju clan. As they are the ancestors of both clans the statement is flawed. It's like saying if you had a disease then taje yoir last name your child who is a girl marries another guy her last name changes presumably and their child us born with the same disease as you are. The statement of lets say the family is called Turner. "This is the first time in the Turner family history when a disease was this has been seen" that statement would be false because you had the disease scientist would connect you to that and therefore it wouldn't be the first because someone from thr F1 generation had it. On a family tree that's how it will be held. In other words the statement madara and indra having the first MS is subsequently false. As Indra fathered the Uchiha, and thus he us called the Uchiha's ancestor. If your ancestor did something before you and you replicate it you are not the first to do so in your family history. Unless yoir ancestor is not your ancestor and unrelated by any genetics means.

Further more we had no idea what Indra's eye was in those times no one knows if it was MS so that's why the statement was said. And hekd true at that moment

Nah, it's not only changing names. That's not how genetics work.
Indra was still an Ootsutsuki with strong alien-genes that he inherited from his father, who inherited it from Kaguya too. Over time, with each new generation, these alien-genes were slowly washed out from the gen-pools and all that's left became known as the Uchiha-clan.
Same reason why birds are not dinosaurs, only because they are related since the dinosaurs are basically the root of todays birds. The genes fundamentally changed.

You basically showed a scan that ninshu and ninjutsu are chakra. Ninshu is the sharing of chakra. Ninjutsu is internalizing and weaponizing it. I don't thonk je meant that they are the same so this may be a mosunderstanding on your half and his side

Of course both of them are relying on chakra. I never said that Ninshuu had nothing to do with chakra, but they are not the same thing. Like, only because a car is made out of steel, it doesn't mean everything else made out of steel is a car too.

 

[123fire]

Who said that this is the point? No one is talking about clones in general, but about shadow clones. There is a difference. Tobirama was said to be the person who invented explicitly shadow-clones, not any other type of clones or clones in general. Nothing in the manga speaks against this, so that's our state of legit information.

Nah, it's not only changing names. That's not how genetics work.
Indra was still an Ootsutsuki with strong alien-genes that he inherited from his father, who inherited it from Kaguya too. Over time, with each new generation, these alien-genes were slowly washed out from the gen-pools and all that's left became known as the Uchiha-clan.
Same reason why birds are not dinosaurs, only because they are related since the dinosaurs are basically the root of todays birds. The genes fundamentally changed.



Of course both of them are relying on chakra. I never said that Ninshuu had nothing to do with chakra, but they are not the same thing. Like, only because a car is made out of steel, it doesn't mean everything else made out of steel is a car too.

We already proved you wrong why still babling? Indra and Ashura have ninjutsu they're the beginners of ninjutsu , the proof is that there's a mangscan when Hagoromk was talking to naruto about indra and ashura and they're shown with Susano and nine tails mode thing , thats the proof and its from the manga
Proof:

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[DominiqueX]

We already proved you wrong why still babling? Indra and Ashura have ninjutsu they're the beginners of ninjutsu , the proof is that there's a mangscan when Hagoromk was talking to naruto about indra and ashura and they're shown with Susano and nine tails mode thing , thats the proof and its from the manga
Proof:

Spoiler

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What are you talking about again? Tell me what this has to do with:

1. Ninshuu is not the same thing as ninjutsu.
2. Indra does not have shadow-clones.

It's not that you can only have ninshuu or ninjutsu. You can have both, but they are different kind of things. Don't you get that?

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

What are you talking about again? Tell me what this has to do with:

1. Ninshuu is not the same thing as ninjutsu.
2. Indra does not have shadow-clones.

It's not that you can only have ninshuu or ninjutsu. You can have both, but they are different kind of things. Don't you get that?

why waste precious time you are never getting back typing to a brick wall?

 

[DominiqueX]

why waste precious time you are never getting back typing to a brick wall?

Because I'm super bored and incredibly stupid, I guess.

 

[minamoto]

Because I'm super bored and incredibly stupid, I guess.

why are you bashing yourself??...it's some sort of suicide ya know?