I'm starting to doubt anymore deaths

[saw2097]

Getting back to the original subject of lack of deaths in a war arc, that really isn't uncommon.

Heck in the original trilogy of Star Wars, only four named good guys were killed off, Luke's Aunt and Uncle, and Obi Wan and Yoda who came back as Force Ghosts.

Then there was Lord of the Rings, the only member of the Fellowship that was killed off was Boromir.

Then there is One Piece, where only two actual big characters were killed off and that manga is longer then Naruto.

Then there is DBZ which is considered the greatest Shounen of all, where not a single good guy actually stayed dead in the entire series, (not counting the GT anime thing).

Really Naruto has more deaths in its war arc then you see in most, its all about what you compare it too, if you compare it too certain stories then yeah it only has a few, but if you compare it to other stories cut from the same cloth and have the same target audience then it has more than usual.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

One Chapter?

Did you read the chapter Regrets, the long one with the flashbacks where Naruto broke down crying over the fodders, he had the flashbacks of his life.

His parents are dead, his teacher is dead, his best friend betrayed him, he had to endure pain for 11 years, where nobody helped him or did anything for him.

And he had a monster inside him that made his life miserable.

Those fodders clearly did lead to emotional development as Naruto cried over them and reflected on all the regrets in his life.

GOSH, the fodders doesn't add the value to the story, it doesn't matter if Naruto being over protective to the fodders, it doesn't mean shit, especially when the fodders dies Naruto didn't cries over a random no name ninjas Lol LMFAO!

You look very stupid when you do this, stop trying hard these Fodders refers to a group of useless ninja used to take up space.

 

[Ness42153]

Fodders are expendable just like the zetsu are, they give no emotional appeal because no one can relate to them, and no one knows them, unlike the main/side characters, imo.

The deaths of characters gives developement to those around them and to the characters themselves. Just look at the death if Jiraiya. That's the type of emotion Kishi should be giving with the deaths of characters. He could have done that with Gai, but instead used him to hype Naruto's new power.

Naruto endured for like one chapter in the manga. Iruka stopped the pain.Naruto's still naive and still thinks that he could save everyone, he didn't learn anything from Neji's death even if that's what it was for. He can't always save everyone, but he still doesn't get that.

Naruto isn't the only character, he isn't God, that's why I dislike his character. Every character is made into some sort of zombie just to hype him. They lose their own development for it just like Neji and Gaara.

Neji's death was n vain and Naruto only needs to stop Madara to succeed.

Zetsu I'd say are fodder yes. But saying they don't give emotional appeal isn't entirely true. They are less relatable, but I still felt bad as the soldiers had their livelihood drained from them. Zetsus are farther from being human so I feel a little less sympathy for them.

I feel that Jiraiya's death was the most emotional moment in the entire manga for me. BUT I feel it was appropriate for how naruto handled. It may have been short, but we haven't seen Naruto act so down hearted before. It showed us how hard it impacted him, especially in the anime. But it really isn't in his character to be sad and depressed. Naruto embodies the feeling to believe in ones self and overcome hardships. No he can't always save everyone, but it's in his nature to do everything in his power to protect those around him. He is simple minded so you should expect, to an extent, that he will seem naive.

Lastly I do agree that Naruto is not a god , i hate to pull this card, but this is HIS manga. It's called Naruto. I don't see that other characters are "zombified" to hype him. Other characters have development and growth through knowing Naruto. I think Neji and Gaara had amazing developments that were heavily influenced by Naruto's nature.
Everyone in the manga hints that Naruto has this "special something" that makes people want to follow him. I think it has something to do with Naruto being Ashura's reincarnate.

I'm sorry you're unhappy with the others development, but i find it great and very satisfying.

 

[NarutoB]

Are deaths all that necessary anyway?

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Getting back to the original subject of lack of deaths in a war arc, that really isn't uncommon.

Heck in the original trilogy of Star Wars, only four named good guys were killed off, Luke's Aunt and Uncle, and Obi Wan and Yoda who came back as Force Ghosts.

Then there was Lord of the Rings, the only member of the Fellowship that was killed off was Boromir.

Then there is One Piece, where only two actual big characters were killed off and that manga is longer then Naruto.

Then there is DBZ which is considered the greatest Shounen of all, where not a single good guy actually stayed dead in the entire series, (not counting the GT anime thing).

Really Naruto has more deaths in its war arc then you see in most, its all about what you compare it too, if you compare it too certain stories then yeah it only has a few, but if you compare it to other stories cut from the same cloth and have the same target audience then it has more than usual.

The most important thing is to have Good Beginning and Ending. The ending is supposed to have the best climatic better than every arc.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Are deaths all that necessary anyway?

Yes if we're talking about the ending especially considering the War.

 

[Ness42153]

GOSH, the fodders doesn't add the value to the story, it doesn't matter if Naruto being over protective to the fodders, it doesn't mean shit, especially when the fodders dies Naruto didn't cries over a random no name ninjas Lol LMFAO!

You look very stupid when you do this, stop trying hard these Fodders refers to a group of useless ninja used to take up space.

Really? you just dismiss everything he said there as pointless? The fodder help show how naruto grew and developed as a character. Like saw said, it's because of everyone in his past that he suffered so much. Do remember all random people that teased him and scorned him in the stills where naruto stands alone crying? No. Do we remember what they look like? probably not. But because they made naruto hurt so much is why we felt sorry for him. why many of us started to empathize and root for him.
When nagato brought back everyone he killed when he assaulted the hidden leaf you saw all of Konoha's fodder come back to life. But you saw how the others reacted to seeing their fodder friends be revived. I felt joy and relief seeing them filled with emotions of a similar sort.

These people were the same "fodder" citizens and Konoha ninja that made naruto's early life a living hell. but now they are praising him and love him as a hero.

Fodder don't always have a huge impact but saying they have none and naruto protecting them "doesnt mean shit" is not correct

The way you said all of that just came off rude. If anything you look stupid when you completely dismiss a valid point just because you don't agree with it or notice it's validity.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

People aren't going to die period,we might as well get used to it.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Really? you just dismiss everything he said there as pointless? The fodder help show how naruto grew and developed as a character. Like saw said, it's because of everyone in his past that he suffered so much. Do remember all random people that teased him and scorned him in the stills where naruto stands alone crying? No. Do we remember what they look like? probably not. But because they made naruto hurt so much is why we felt sorry for him. why many of us started to empathize and root for him.
When nagato brought back everyone he killed when he assaulted the hidden leaf you saw all of Konoha's fodder come back to life. But you saw how the others reacted to seeing their fodder friends be revived. I felt joy and relief seeing them filled with emotions of a similar sort.

These people were the same "fodder" citizens and Konoha ninja that made naruto's early life a living hell. but now they are praising him and love him as a hero.

Fodder don't always have a huge impact but saying they have none and naruto protecting them "doesnt mean shit" is not correct

The way you said all of that just came off rude. If anything you look stupid when you completely dismiss a valid point just because you don't agree with it or notice it's validity.

Lol,Naruto does'nt even know these fodder so I don't get why he would cry over them.

 

[Angelic.]

i dont see a point to anyone dying anymore either. its not a war anymore just god people fighting.

 

[Dannie]

Onepiece MarineFord ( In the Interview, Oda stated he will kill off 1 of the strawhats in the next 2 arcs),

Is this true?

ot: Yeah, everyone knows that Kishimoto doesn't want to kill fan favorites because they will probably drop the manga if their fav suddenly died. Imagine if Kakashi or Sakura died? There would be a WW3.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

i dont see a point to anyone dying anymore either. its not a war anymore just god people fighting.

Agreed,to call this a "war" would be hilarious.In war people die no matter how much you try to prevent it,the best made plans can always go wrong and soilders die as a result.

 

[Ness42153]

Lol,Naruto does'nt even know these fodder so I don't get why he would cry over them.

Sigh* -_- Naruto is one of the characters with the biggest hearts with concerns for others I've ever seen. After getting to 675 chapters to know naruto's character I don't see how you can possibly say you don't get why naruto would cry for someone he may not know that well. In 646 you see how upset he is after seeing so many dead/drained ninja and in 647 he does cry for them and the sense of hopelessness/despair that Obito gives the army.

Heck when he met yagura in the tailed beast psychy he cries for him right on the spot.

But that wasn't my point. My point was that fodder are meaningful and have a place to influence and effect the story

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Sigh* -_- Naruto is one of the characters with the biggest hearts with concerns for others I've ever seen. After getting to 675 chapters to know naruto's character I don't see how you can possibly say you don't get why naruto would cry for someone he may not know that well. In 646 you see how upset he is after seeing so many dead/drained ninja and in 647 he does cry for them and the sense of hopelessness/despair that Obito gives the army.

Heck when he met yagura in the tailed beast psychy he cries for him right on the spot.

But that wasn't my point. My point was that fodder are meaningful and have a place to influence and effect the story

I know Naruto has a big heart but that does'nt mean fodder are important to the story.They're just there to get killed and make the bad guys look threatening.They have the same amount of importance as the Zetsu clones,which is to say none at all.

I just don't see the point of feeling bad for faceless statistics.

 

[Ness42153]

I know Naruto has a big heart but that does'nt mean fodder are important to the story.They're just there to get killed and make the bad guys look threatening.They have the same amount of importance as the Zetsu clones,which is to say none at all.

I just don't see the point of feeling bad for faceless statistics.

Mentioning where naruto was sympathetic (had a big heart) for fodder was a direct rebuttal to your first reply to me. I said why he would cry over them.

My previous reply to narutoshippudenworld is one example of where i see the fodder's importance.
Yes you're right, sometimes fodder are there to make the bad guy look bigger and badder, but in that specific case of the life tree sapping the random soldiers health had a duel purpose because i did find that important to the story and showed what the tree did and what it was capable of.

I know i'm meshing manga and anime, but white zetsu get's face time with obito and I grew to kinda like him and the zetsu personalities. So they have some influence and importance to me and I'd imagine some others as well.

I will say you have some points, but that alone doesn't make it fact that fodder has not influence and importance on the story.

Well I can't argue with your feelings so this debate ends here lol. I don't agree, the fodder does matter to me. Not all of it I will admit, but there is fodder that helps the story and stresses different points.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

Really? you just dismiss everything he said there as pointless? The fodder help show how naruto grew and developed as a character. Like saw said, it's because of everyone in his past that he suffered so much. Do remember all random people that teased him and scorned him in the stills where naruto stands alone crying? No. Do we remember what they look like? probably not. But because they made naruto hurt so much is why we felt sorry for him. why many of us started to empathize and root for him.
When nagato brought back everyone he killed when he assaulted the hidden leaf you saw all of Konoha's fodder come back to life. But you saw how the others reacted to seeing their fodder friends be revived. I felt joy and relief seeing them filled with emotions of a similar sort.

These people were the same "fodder" citizens and Konoha ninja that made naruto's early life a living hell. but now they are praising him and love him as a hero.

Fodder don't always have a huge impact but saying they have none and naruto protecting them "doesnt mean shit" is not correct

The way you said all of that just came off rude. If anything you look stupid when you completely dismiss a valid point just because you don't agree with it or notice it's validity.

We're taking the readers perspective where us majority of viewers normally sees the fodders are considered irrelevant to the story since they're pointless and useless plus they don't add beneficial to the main characters except praises him like a GOD. Us fans don't have any sort of feelings to these no name fodders just like every shonen series.

Don't get carried away in case you don't realize you're one of the minority of the people in this community who viewed fodders holds impact to the story then by all mean good for you however if you don't like how the majority of the people treat fodders as irrelavant than deal with it.

It would be better if these fodders are more civilian because they hold more sympathy unlike a soldier who randomly dies without any feelings. Just Sayian.

 

[Ness42153]

We're taking the readers perspective where us majority of viewers normally sees the fodders are considered irrelevant to the story since they're pointless and useless plus they don't add beneficial to the main characters except praises him like a GOD. Us fans don't have any sort of feelings to these no name fodders just like every shonen series.

Don't get carried away in case you don't realize you're one of the minority of the people in this community who viewed fodders holds impact to the story then by all mean good for you however if you don't like how the majority of the people treat fodders as irrelavant than deal with it.

It would be better if these fodders are more civilian because they hold more sympathy unlike a soldier who randomly dies without any feelings. Just Sayian.

I realize that, that's why I put in my two cents regarding why I, and the minority you mention, don't see it that way. I brought it up to hopefully invite you to look at things in a different perspective, but you've chosen not to try looking that way (or that's at least what I take from your responses). You can find meaning in many things and in many different ways when you examine it from multiple angles and perspectives.

Defending that something isn't entirely true, as you say that fodders essentially equate to wasted space, doesn't mean I'm getting carried away. The minority is still apart of the population so just because there are less of us on this topic doesn't make your views fact. Facts are only absolute if evidence towards it remain unchallenged. I couldn't care less how you feel about all of this, and if you believe it bothers me that others don't see it this way you're mistaken. As I said earlier I was hoping to inspire you to look at things at a different perspective. I enjoy debating and arguing, I find it fun. This is why I joined NB, I saw the conversations and liked the depth of conversation.

The only part that irritated me was how you responded saw. Not that you disagreed with him, but because you essentially called him stupid in a condescending manner.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

I realize that, that's why I put in my two cents regarding why I, and the minority you mention, don't see it that way. I brought it up to hopefully invite you to look at things in a different perspective, but you've chosen not to try looking that way (or that's at least what I take from your responses). You can find meaning in many things and in many different ways when you examine it from multiple angles and perspectives.

Defending that something isn't entirely true, as you say that fodders essentially equate to wasted space, doesn't mean I'm getting carried away. The minority is still apart of the population so just because there are less of us on this topic doesn't make your views fact. Facts are only absolute if evidence towards it remain unchallenged. I couldn't care less how you feel about all of this, and if you believe it bothers me that others don't see it this way you're mistaken. As I said earlier I was hoping to inspire you to look at things at a different perspective. I enjoy debating and arguing, I find it fun. This is why I joined NB, I saw the conversations and liked the depth of conversation.

The only part that irritated me was how you responded saw. Not that you disagreed with him, but because you essentially called him stupid in a condescending manner.

I always try to open my mind but these fodders don't attach to my feeling therefore it comes down to the main/ side character importance to the story likewise Gai death could've been more inspirational as the most honorable heroes and yes there's no such thing as right and wrong that's why we're taking this reader perspective to determine the goods and flaws of the story and come with the overall thoughts.

 

[Ness42153]

I always try to open my mind but these fodders don't attach to my feeling therefore it comes down to the main/ side character importance to the story likewise Gai death could've been more inspirational as the most honorable heroes and yes there's no such thing as right and wrong that's why we're taking this reader perspective to determine the goods and flaws of the story and come with the overall thoughts.

That's fair, you didn't seem to be open minded with it from the start, but now that i know this is how you feel on it i won't try to persuade you any more. I do believe Gai's death would've been just as you described. but i'm also happy he was saved. I like that approach you just gave me. It's level headed, no unnecessary insults to character, and well spoken. ^_^

 

[apsri]

Eh, Naruto has Yang Release now. He can breathe life into form, so unless somebody gets one-shotted, Naruto will save them.