How strong will Naruto be without a tailed beast?

[KidGamer65]

Yeah, kind of. It's just based on his regular Chidori attack, but it's the strongest magnitude and empowered by Six Paths chakra I guess. Just like Naruto's strongest attacks are based on his Rasenshuriken, the regular one. That still doesn't make them regular Rasenshuriken attacks. Each magnitude of Rasenshuriken is differentiated by its corresponding power.

What you described is a regular Chidori, but it's stronger than before since Sasuke has Hagoromo's chakra. That doesn't mean that the tech is different in any way besides power. Rasengan and Chidori are equal, so if Chidori is that strong, then Naruto's Rasengan would be that strong as he has the same boost Sasuke does.

They are regular. The only difference is that the chakra is stronger.

Technically, Six Paths Sage Mode is Hagoromo's chakra used for Sage Mode. So he will have Six Paths Sage Mode still, just without tailed beast attributes. That power would be watered down a bit, but near Ashura's level. I'm not going to go on and compare him with Sasuke, but Toneri, I will. Toneri fought on par with BSM Naruto i.e. Kurama's chakra used for Sage Mode. And Six Paths chakra is equal if not stronger than Kurama's chakra, which will probably make his Six Paths Sage Mode equal or slightly stronger than BSM even without Kurama. Just excluding the Kurama Avatar. But again, he could make a small Avatar just like Ashura's Avatar (only the size of PS face) if Kurama was removed relying on his own Six Paths chakra.

The lack of the Bijuu drastically reduces Naruto's power. Even RSM Naruto w/o the Bijuu Cloak as he appeared when he used YRS wouldn't be strong enough to fight against a Rikudo enhanced Perfect Susanoo, so there's no way he'll win when he doesn't even have the Bijuu's power. He's nowhere near Ashura's level.

Six Paths Chakra is stronger than Kurama's Chakra, but Six Paths Chakra enhances all of Naruto's abilities regardless of whether he's in RSM or not. RSM only makes the boost that much greater. His base abilities are better, thus his power in BSM would be stronger. So his power in The Last isn't just because of Kurama, it's because he has Hagoromo's chakra.

His Six Paths Sage Mode w/o Bijuu influence might be above War Arc BSM, but not BSM after getting Hagoromo's chakra, because that's a whole different powerscale. Him being able to make an Avatar like Ashura's is an assumption, one with no evidence.

 

[shelke]

That pile of nonsense is all mangaphax, you sour puss You have the mentality of a 13 yr old female, always trying to boost your fav even if you have to sneak diss on other characters pathetic

You sound like a blithering idiot. Am I supposed to give an apology?

 

[Zawerni]

Didn't get slapped around by Killer Bee, he even made Hachibi screech in painful agony

Did you miss most of that fight? :lol

The Hachibi that screeched in painful agony was a substitution as well.

 

[shelke]

Did you miss most of that fight? :lol

The Hachibi that screeched in painful agony was a substitution as well.

Haha, No.

 

[Zawerni]

Haha, No.

Haha, yep. Bee only felt Amaterasu for a minute before he escaped in the tentacle by having it cut off.

 

[shelke]

Haha, yep. Bee only felt Amaterasu for a minute before he escaped in the tentacle by having it cut off.

Do you even know how Kawarimi works? You sound ridiculous.

 

[xxSAGExx]

My answer: A bit stronger than Nagato but weaker than Sasuke

I changed my answer.

Are you talking about current Naruto losing the Bijuus but remaining alive or Naruto never having Kurama? Current Naruto base is higher than Kage level and even higher with SM. Had Naruto not been sealed with Kurama, one or both of his parents might have lived so he would be even stronger than he is now.

SM would make him kage level.

Wrong. Base Naruto from the Last was Kage level on his own. He easily fought Toneri puppets without clones while Hiashi (High Jounin level, strongest Hyuuga alive) and his 2 guards were beaten pretty easily. Naruto base was Jounin level since his fight with Kakuza as Kakashi stated Naruto was equal to him or even surpassing all before he learned SM. Naruto would have gotten even stronger within the 10 years time span from the Last to Gaiden but since Naruto can literally get a year worth of training in a day, he probably got to Hashirama/Madara/Tobirama level in base then stopped.

Mid kage level. He'd still be the strongest in the village.

His base was Kage level in the Last, he's around Hashirama/Madara/Tobirama level at most, SM takes it even higher.

frog sage mode naruto is kage level? heh heh heh. nice fanfic.

No he's higher than Kage level in base, if he was Kage level in the Last then he's a bit stronger than that now.

Yeah. That's not happening.

OP: He would still solo Neji. Naruto would have SM and RS. So I would put him at Just below Itachi/Kisame level.

Naruto base is actually above Itachi and Kisame level now. He was Kage level in the Last which is 10 years from current time.

 

[Zawerni]

Do you even know how Kawarimi works? You sound ridiculous.

Killer Bee used Sasuke's attack to escape in his tentacle. He even says it himself :lol

And later Tobi confirms what Sasuke captured and brought back was a substitution.

You sound ridiculous. :lol Read the manga.

 

[shelke]

Killer Bee used Sasuke's attack to escape in his tentacle. He even says it himself :lol

And later Tobi confirms what Sasuke captured and brought back was a substitution.

You sound ridiculous. :lol Read the manga.

So, why did you disagree with his statement that Hachibi was screaming in pain?

 

[Zawerni]

So, why did you disagree with his statement that Hachibi was screaming in pain?

It wasn't Hachibi. It was a substitution. :lol

I said Killer Bee only felt a bit of Amaterasu before he escaped. The "Hachibi" that was still flailing around screaming was his fake.

 

[shelke]

It wasn't Hachibi. It was a substitution. :lol

I said Killer Bee only felt a bit of Amaterasu before he escaped. The "Hachibi" that was still flailing around screaming was his fake.

Haha, Good one. A substitution cannot be used without a part separate from the body and it's done BEFORE someone is hit with an attack.

So, let me ask you again, which Tentacle did Hachibi replace itself with? The one that was already attached to its body and was cut afterwards by Sasuke, but, Hachibi had already substituted with it? Stop posting.

 

[zeezzay]

Naruto without karuma is nothing

 

[Zawerni]

Haha, Good one. A substitution cannot be used without a part separate from the body and it's done BEFORE someone is hit with an attack.

So, let me ask you again, which Tentacle did Hachibi replace itself with? The one that was already attached to its body and was cut afterwards by Sasuke, but, Hachibi had already substituted with it? Stop posting.

Go read the manga. Sasuke cut one of Hachibi's tentacles off. Killer Bee used that to escape, leaving a fake Hachibi behind as a substitution. Sasuke extinguished the fake and brought it back to Tobi. When Akatsuki tried to seal it they realized it was a fake. And Tobi later tells Sasuke he failed to capture the Hachibi and brought a substitution back instead. :lol

 

[shelke]

Go read the manga. Sasuke cut one of Hachibi's tentacles off. Killer Bee used that to escape, leaving a fake Hachibi behind as a substitution. Sasuke extinguished the fake and brought it back to Tobi. When Akatsuki tried to seal it they realized it was a fake. And Tobi later tells Sasuke he failed to capture the Hachibi and brought a substitution back instead. :lol

Precisely what I am trying to tell you. The tentacle was cut AFTER Hachibi was already hit with Amaterasu. You think it performed substitution while under the influence of a technique and after being hit by it? That happened AFTER Sasuke cut off the Tentacle and STOPPED the flames.

That gave Bee the opportunity, which he calls an "on the fly plan" to allow the entire Hachibi to Transform into a Tentacle and Substitute it with Bee's fake body or in other words a Tentacle. So no, the thing that was screaming was the real Hachibi. Why? Because 1) that's not how Kawarimi works and 2) Bee admits he thought of the plan "on the fly".

So, what is it that is beyond your understanding?

 

[Zawerni]

Precisely what I am trying to tell you. The tentacle was cut AFTER Hachibi was already hit with Amaterasu. You think it performed substitution while under the influence of a technique and after being hit by it? That happened AFTER Sasuke cut off the Tentacle and STOPPED the flames.

That gave Bee the opportunity, which he calls an "on the fly plan" to allow the entire Hachibi to Transform into a Tentacle and Substitute it with Bee's fake body or in other words a Tentacle. So no, the thing that was screaming was the real Hachibi. Why? Because 1) that's not how Kawarimi works and 2) Bee admits he thought of the plan "on the fly".

So, what is it that is beyond your understanding?

Bee escaped before the flames were extinguished, not after. :lol

He didn't transform into anything. He escaped inside the tentacle that was cut off. Similar to how he escaped death from the Gedo Mazo.

You enjoy disagreeing with manga facts. :lol

 

[shelke]

Bee escaped before the flames were extinguished, not after. :lol

He didn't transform into anything. He escaped inside the tentacle that was cut off. Similar to how he escaped death from the Gedo Mazo.

You enjoy disagreeing with manga facts. :lol

How? Kawarimi cannot be used when any technique hits you. I am repeating for the third time now.

Stop being foolish.

Which manga facts? That Kawarimi can be performed when another technique is in progress? That Bee claims he thought of the plan the last second? Yeah, no dude. That was the real Hachibi.

 

[Merkel]

Whether you think Naruto wouldn't have met the Sage with Kurama or not is subjective and can't be proven. His course as a shinobi would have been COMPLETELY different but that's not to say that he wouldn't be strong. It's possible he would have made ends meet to become powerful if he didn't have the Kyuubi since his poor chakra control wouldn't have been hindered therefore being able to learn jutsu much easier at a young age. His mindset may have been COMPLETELY different as he would have been allowed to find out about his parents and the villagers wouldn't shun him like they did when he had the Kyuubi. He would have been a very different shinobi/person. He could have been weak/strong. Who knows.

OP: If we simply deduct Kyuubi chakra/presence and are counting everything else he currently has (including RSM) then he is high-Kage level. How high is up for debate. Obviously without Kurama he is weaker than Sasuke and he is weaker than non-JJ Madara but I still put him above SM Hashirama.

Things to consider if Naruto never had Kurama:

- Naruto could have made ends meet with his lack of Kurama still being able to compete with Sasuke or maybe he became a much weaker shinobi without the presence of Kurama.
- Naruto wouldn't have as immense chakra without Kurama chakra leaking in to his.
- Naruto's chakra control would have been much better, therefore able to learn both basic and advanced jutsu far easier.
- Jiraiya could have taught him more of his style of jutsu rather than focusing on controlling the Kyuubi (which was to no avail anyway).
- Naruto may have been a very different person without village hate and his convictions/views may have changed. Eg: He chose to excel in the academy, trained hard at home, made friends or conversely, he still didn't try at the academy, hardly trained at all and made no friends at all; maybe it became a combination of those.

 

[Zawerni]

How? Kawarimi cannot be used when any technique hits you. I am repeating for the third time now.

Stop being foolish.

Which manga facts? That Kawarimi can be performed when another technique is in progress? That Bee claims he thought of the plan the last second? Yeah, no dude. That was the real Hachibi.

Manga facts that say Bee escaped in the severed tentacle, not with a transformation.
Manga facts that say the "Hachibi" Sasuke captured was a fake.

:lol


Is this your "troll and pass it off as fact"? :lol

 

[shelke]

Manga facts that say Bee escaped in the severed tentacle, not with a transformation.
Manga facts that say the "Hachibi" Sasuke captured was a fake.

:lol

Is this your "troll and pass it off as fact"? :lol

Yes, because Bee is capable of transforming any part of his body into Hachibi. He used a Substitution jutsu, proven by the fake Bee left for Sasuke; another tentacle.

Dear Lord ...

 

[Reboryushon]

Hiruzen solos.