[Discussion] How believable is astrology?
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Jazzy Stardust
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Siri define "Unbelievable"
From two definitions of unbelievable
1. Adjective. Beyond belief or understanding
2. Adjective. Having a probability too low to inspire belief
Transcendence
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Completely disagreed. First off, you have cause and effect completely misconstrued. And you'd be wrong on being able to deduce someone's personality just based on their zodiac sign. I'm an Aries. My brother is an Aries. And one of my close friends is an Aries. We couldn't all be any more different. Me and my close friend are much quieter and less outspoken than the typically "fiery" Aries personality that is usually described as what an Aries is. My brother is very loud and outgoing, but that's the only part of an Aries you'll find in him.
And cause and effect doesn't mean there's an inherent reason behind something happening. You can't just map out something and predict it's going to happen unless it's numerical or observable (Ala science or rate based math like Calculus). Cause and effect is simply the cause of a situation and the effect it has based on the cause's nature. Example: Someone is pregnant. Her husband gets home 5 minutes later than expected to take her to the hospital. Those 5 minutes is the difference between getting there in time to have a hospital birth, or having to stop on the side of the road due to rapid contractions and the baby being born in the back seat. Cause and effect (Get home 5 minutes too late; baby is born in the back seat).
There's no actual scientific backing to any of this. Astronomy is the actual science of the stars. Astrology is a glorified religious take on it. If there's ever any coincidence behind all of this and people actually acting like they should according to these horoscopes, it's likely a sub-conscious will to act like it after reading it. Much like when someone tells you to do something good for a change and you end up actually doing so.
Jazzy Stardust
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I never said you had to believe me but you read my post with your own opinion already in mind. My first two sentences solo'd your whole first paragraph read closely.
Secondly cause and effect isn't situational, it's literally a law because it governs everything and is apart of everything.
Because I don't believe in something comparable to religion I'm ignorant? Do you know how ignorant that sounds? Lol.
Yes, completely disregard the other definition.
If this is so factual please tell me about my life. I was born on August 28, 1996. If you can tell me about my life completely and entirely I will believe you. If you get it wrong the probability is too low to inspire belief. This definition will speak volumes when you get my life completely and utterly wrong. Just goes to show who is inspired by these broken beliefs. Lol.
Now prove me wrong.
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Cannot be compared to organised religion other than it being part of every major religiom's core.
And what's ignorant is forming an opinion without the slightest research.
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Jazzy Stardust
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Alright, I'll describe your personality perfectly. I need more info though, so I'll vm you. Describing your life isn't something I said I can find for you.
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SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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It's bullshit, uther bullshit, it have abselutely no facts backing it up, it's litterly make belief, it got abselutily not truth to it and sure some times it might get something right, but if you keep making claims some of them is bound to end up being true and the it's usually only because the claims/predictions are so vague they might aswell not exist.
like if I claimed I could predict the future and my claim was that in the future there will be war, there will be death, there will be injustice, but there will also be hope there will also be progress and the sun will rise again, I would have said abselutely nothing, all these things are common sence anyone could claim, they are so vague that they are bound to be true, the same way with astrology, it a method con artist use to earn money from gullible people.
like if I claimed I could predict the future and my claim was that in the future there will be war, there will be death, there will be injustice, but there will also be hope there will also be progress and the sun will rise again, I would have said abselutely nothing, all these things are common sence anyone could claim, they are so vague that they are bound to be true, the same way with astrology, it a method con artist use to earn money from gullible people.
It is one of the many archaic sciences like Alchemy that have lost their roots. A lot of people will claim nonsense, when some of the biggest sciences evolved out of the former two. Just because someone doesn't know how to understand the intricacies of Astrology - or those damned, foolish fortune tellers - doesn't mean it's wrong.
People today don't know how to read the charts, when early, learned civilizations used to place a of of value upon them. I would ask people to read about Chiro and see how wrong they are. So yes, I do believe in Astrology but I don't believe in Astrologers.
Even the study of medicine and the Caduceus Wand also has its roots in Astrology - the thirteenth Zodiac Sign. Then we have Alchemy out of which Chemistry evolved, even that takes upon the cyclic elemental factors of Astrological elements. Don't slight it. Just because certain science has become archaic, or it has lost its roots, doesn't mean it's baloney.
Also, that is not how Astrology works. Your Sun Sign means nothing in understanding your personality. It's one very very very small part of the bigger picture that includes your Lunar Sign, your Rising Sign, and then your entire chart and how it's governed by signs and where those signs lie, along with the planets position.
People today don't know how to read the charts, when early, learned civilizations used to place a of of value upon them. I would ask people to read about Chiro and see how wrong they are. So yes, I do believe in Astrology but I don't believe in Astrologers.
Astronomy branched out of Astrology. The Greek and Mesopotamian (Includes Babylonian and Canaanite religions), along with Egyptians used to study Astrology to study not only the stars but their affects on the cosmic universe, which included their affects on people.
Even the study of medicine and the Caduceus Wand also has its roots in Astrology - the thirteenth Zodiac Sign. Then we have Alchemy out of which Chemistry evolved, even that takes upon the cyclic elemental factors of Astrological elements. Don't slight it. Just because certain science has become archaic, or it has lost its roots, doesn't mean it's baloney.
Also, that is not how Astrology works. Your Sun Sign means nothing in understanding your personality. It's one very very very small part of the bigger picture that includes your Lunar Sign, your Rising Sign, and then your entire chart and how it's governed by signs and where those signs lie, along with the planets position.
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~Ethereal~
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Not at all believable...though they described my persona so perfectly. O___O I used to read them for fun, none are true. Just like 4 years ago I played a fortune teller game and asked "am I bold" and the answer was yes, when I actually have hair on my head. XD
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Astrology itself is an ancient science that is actually true like Stx and some others have explained. However, there is a catch: For it to be accurate, your birth time needs to be recorded with pinpoint,razor-sharp accuracy, as even seconds or minutes can make a difference. Your sun sign means very little with regards to figuring out your personality(so those horoscopes in the newspaper are a pile of horseshit in general). However, there are not a large number of people that can actually do it properly, and even if they can, if your birthplace(latitude and longitude) or time is slightly off, then there will be quite a few errors. But, if your birth time is recorded with good enough accuracy and the astrologer is proficient enough, the error will be negligible, although there may still be some uncertainty.
This is why I am dead against solely relying on astrology to make your life decisions or anything of that sort. You can use it as a guide, but in my opinion, you must not live your life through Astrology. For example, the ex-Sri Lankan president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, followed the advice of an astrologer to call an early election(I believe he still had a year or so left in his term), since apparently his period was "great" and that he was guaranteed to win. Now, I think you can guess what ended up happening? Link provided below.
This is why I am dead against solely relying on astrology to make your life decisions or anything of that sort. You can use it as a guide, but in my opinion, you must not live your life through Astrology. For example, the ex-Sri Lankan president, Mahinda Rajapaksa, followed the advice of an astrologer to call an early election(I believe he still had a year or so left in his term), since apparently his period was "great" and that he was guaranteed to win. Now, I think you can guess what ended up happening? Link provided below.
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I think it is BS. I pity on people who spend money on astrology.
People here draw a natal chart when some one is born based on planetery alignment and they predict their future happening, periods of suffering and happiness based on planets influence. They even use it take decision like education and business even make marriage matching.
My parents thought I would be a very successful person, I will have a great future based on it I turned out to be a loser and my future is very dark XD :|
People here draw a natal chart when some one is born based on planetery alignment and they predict their future happening, periods of suffering and happiness based on planets influence. They even use it take decision like education and business even make marriage matching.
My parents thought I would be a very successful person, I will have a great future based on it I turned out to be a loser and my future is very dark XD :|
There are a few problems with your request.
The first betrays your ignorance of what Astrology actually is and how it is supposed to work. You ridicule a subject, but display a complete lack of knowledge of it. That does not prove anything about Astrology, but it does say a thing or two about how much weight your opinions should be given.
For a comparison, "Brazil sucks, man, never go there."
"Why? What happened to you while you were there?"
"I was never there, man, but it just sucks."
".... 'kay."
For the type of "Tell me about my life" request you made, you need to give the time of birth (down to the minute, at least - although clocks are not all synchronized), the location of birth (GPS coordinates are used, today), and be aware of what sect of Astrological scholars your interpreter is from.
Modern Astrology is a bit of a piecemeal construction of what was more common in the Middle East in the time of Babylon and ancient Sumeria. As such, there are some differing opinions on which stars signify what, some use stars that others do not, and still others use different charts/tables to determine what was in the sky on the date, time, and location of your birth (there is even an effort to use orbital simulation programs to chart locations back thousands of years and reconcile them with older charts).
The Eastern concept of Astrology is a little different. The "Chinese Zodiac" is less about what is in the sky, but is more observant of a numerical cycle as influenced by key astrological bodies. While each year has its "sign" - there is more at play than the sign. Each minute of each hour of each day within the year (and the 60 year cycle the yearly calendar works on) scores 'points' toward the five human elements within Taoism (as opposed to the Eight Trigrams - or Phases of the physical world).
This is used to compile a general "fortune" - IE, during certain periods of the cycle of years, you would be expected to be 'more powerful' or - more effective in everything you attempt to do. In others, you would be expected to be less effective.
Although, this, in and of itself, was melded with a more intricate concept of how the Five Elements interact with the cycle of Yin and Yang. From a philosophical standpoint, a "weak year" was not necessarily 'bad luck' - but a time where one should focus on things other than direct action - to work 'in harmony' with the yearly trend. The Wei Wu Wei concept.
More precise forms of divination (such as more specific questions) were often answered with the use of the I-Ching and the Sixty-Four Hexagrams. This is done by casting pieces upon a grid and using all of the above plus the current day to resolve a forecast.
Now - I think the truest part of Astrology is the idea that there is something at play greater than yourself and that you should stop and consider 'the greater process' and how your actions/mentality/questions fit within it. Regardless of whether or not there is a cycle caused by celestial bodies (or those celestial bodies are simply time pieces we correlate with that cycle); the idea that one stops his own ambitions long enough to consider things beyond himself and beyond his immediate control and intellect is a sign of a wisdom.
Now - on a related note, I do believe one should not be so quick to dismiss the idea that there are cycles in the world that influence us in ways we only vaguely understand. There is a particular phenomena known as "precession."
Every year on the Vernal Equinox, the sun rises on the horizon. However, the position of stars and galaxies move, ever so slightly, each vernal equinox at a rate of roughly one degree every sixty years (give or take) for a complete cycle every 24,000 years (again, give or take).
This phenomena is known as precession and is observed only with bodies outside of our solar system.
Nearly all of the ancient civilizations were familiar with this cycle, insisting that they were in the Third such cycle - indicating knowledge of it goes back even before them. The whole big deal about the Mayan Calendar ending? It was their marking of the cycle - by their count, we are in the Fourth Age of Man. The birth of a new cycle was always seen as being a time of great energy and change - frequently of the chaotic and destructive kind.
By Indian counts of the same cycle, it will roll over in the 2120s.
There is some error on these estimates because, frankly, we know less about the patterns of stars than these ancient civilizations did. The markers and indicators they use are foreign to us and have to be inferred. Using the wrong star as an indicator can get us close to a match - but there is always some debate regarding exactly what century we are in.
Now - what causes the long-count year?
The prevailing theory for some time was a 'wobble' in the Earth's axis. The problem is that this 'wobble' has not been detected by geostationary satellites, nor is it observable with any of the bodies of our solar system (which it should be if it was a wobbling of our axis). This means it is something to do with our solar system.
In the galaxy, binary and trinary star systems are the rule and single star systems are the exception. For some time, it was believed that the Kuiper Belt went on almost indefinitely - the left over remnants of stellar formation. This would be expected of a single star.
Instead, we find a shear edge. The Kuiper belt ends abruptly.
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"Introduction
The Classical Kuiper Belt has an edge at about 47 AU. It may have been carved by tidal truncation or represent the outer limits to which objects were pushed by Neptune's migration.
Detection of the Edge
"The observed radial distribution of KBOs is deficient in objects beyond about 50 AU, relative to simulations of power-law Kuiper Belt disks. We have no firm explanation of this observation. The Kuiper Belt might be truncated at about this distance, there might be a steep decrease in the maximum size of KBOs at larger heliocentric distances, or some combination of these two effects might conspire to yield the observed radial distribution." Jewitt et al. 1998
Later, the edge was confirmed in a smaller but deeper survey by Allen et al. (2001) and in a larger and deeper survey by Trujillo et al. (2001).
The Cause of the Edge
The edge, like many other features of the Kuiper Belt, was not expected or predicted by any prevailing theories. Perhaps for this reason, its reality was accepted only slowly by many, but it now is generally acknowledged as real. [Doubters asserted that the edge is an illusion, caused by the faintness of more distant objects. This possibility was rejected in the 1998 paper based on numerical simulations of the data which show that we could see more distant objects if they were present.]
The first group to attempt an explanation invoked tidal truncation of the Kuiper Belt by a passing star (Ida et al (2000): Ap. J. 528, 351-356). To cut the disk at 50 AU, the star would have to pass about 150 AU from the sun. Such a close encounter is highly improbable in the present environment of the sun (the mean distance between stars is near 1 parsec, or 200,000 AU). But if the sun formed in a dense cluster, then perhaps such an encounter could have occurred.
Another explanation could be that the edge of the Classical Belt simply marks the distance out to which objects were transported after being swept along by the migrating Neptune 3:2 resonance, which now coincides with the outer edge.
Still another, as noted above, is that the edge reflects a deficiency only in the largest, most easily observed objects, but that smaller, fainter objects exist beyond it. This possibility has grown weaker since 1998, as new surveys of greater depth and area have failed to find any more distant Classical KBOs. "
Further, as we look at the angular momentum of the planets relative to the angular momentum of the Sun... something is off. The Sun has -way- less angular momentum than it should.
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In theory - at the center of our solar system should be a rapidly spinning single star possessing angular momentum in line with what is observed in the planets.
We do not.
The only mathematical explanation is that we are actually in a binary star system with a mutual orbital point that creates a 24,000 year cycle (give or take). Evidence of this? Precession is increasing in rate:
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The observed rate of precession as available in documentation and what precession would look like for half of an orbital period of 24000 years.
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By placing the Sun into an orbit with a binary companion at the relative orbital period of 24000-26000 years, angular momentum is conserved and physics is safe. This also explains precession outside of our solar system while lacking it within our solar system.
A more detailed explanation can be found, here:
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Compound all of this with ancient tales of planets from outside of our solar system, and it becomes pretty obvious, to me, that the ancients were keenly aware of a universe we are only beginning to piece together.
So, if they say the cycles of the stars are important - I'm going to take them at their word.
I'm not sure our attempt to recompile their knowledge from what can only be described as a post-apocalypse is correct. I'm not sure they used the stars in personal forecasts as much as they did on the scale of decades and for nations... but it's hard to know. Most of that knowledge was destroyed.
And, hey, when these cultures hauled massive granite blocks from hundreds of miles away up shear mountain passages to put a structure together with to-the-micron accurate manufacturing and air-tight interlocking structures... I'm going to be of the opinion that they knew some things we don't.
Now - that doesn't necessarily mean that you should break up with your girlfriend because her astrological sign is 'incompatible.' Like I said - there are differing theories on that type of thing, and I also don't believe the ancient cultures believed it held as great of an individual significance as it did an environmental significance.