Hiruzen

[6pathofpain]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Dude.. what are you twelve or something? Of course kishi makes mistakes. But the plot still stays the same. just because he IS human doesn't mean that the whole series is flawed. take a look at this:

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but the plot hasn't changed one bit. what we saw was an OLD, I repeat OLD hiruzen. we haven't seen his prime. Who knows. kishi might include him in a flashback sometime. we HAVENT seen SO6P in action either. its all hype but the premise still stands. the sage of six paths is the strongest of them all and hiruzen was the strongest of the kages. hashi was the strongest of his time. minato was to surpass them all but didn't, because he died and naruto will eventually surpass them all. he is very close to surpassing his father. have you seen his clones? Old hiruzen made two clones in his old age. kakashi makes 1 clone and is already bawling for chakra. What else do you want? an explanation on how making two clones in an advance age is something worthy of praise? check this out:

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Because of the manner in which the clones are created, the user must divide their chakra among the clones, potentially using up all their chakra fairly quickly if the user is low on chakra or makes too many clones.

You can asume the SO6P was the strongest because he had the rinnegun, created jutsu an had the 10 tails. WHy can u asume the 3rd was the strongest beside the weakest ninja in the leaf village(iruka) sayin he was strong?

 

[Madromanoff]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

You can asume the SO6P was the strongest because he had the rinnegun, created jutsu an had the 10 tails. WHy can u asume the 3rd was the strongest beside the weakest ninja in the leaf village(iruka) sayin he was strong?

I think every generation has their best guys like hashirama, hiruzen, jiraiya, minato, itachi, naruto who are best. And we cant tell who is best among them cause they cant battle each other beacause they are not of same generation. Lol

 

[TobisPawn]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

I would just like to point out that in the first chapter of the manga, iruka (the same man who said hiruzen was the strongest hokage) stated that naruto may very well surpass all previous hokage... after witnessing one mass shadow clone jutsu. First issue. His quote about hiruzen doesn't mean jack shit anymore but you hiruzen fans can cling to that as long as you want i guess.

May very well surpass all the Hokage. Does that mean he has surpassed them? And would you mind sending me your personal interview with Kishi, where he stated that all of his Part 1 hype doesn't mean anything anymore?

 

[The Necromancer]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

May very well surpass all the Hokage. Does that mean he has surpassed them? And would you mind sending me your personal interview with Kishi, where he stated that all of his Part 1 hype doesn't mean anything anymore?

Ok. I'm going to ask you your favorite food. And in 9 years when i ask you what your favorite food is you BETTER say the same exact thing or you're wrong. People can change their minds. Kishi is human. Do you think he reads 500+ chapters of his own manga every week before writing another chapter? No. There are plenty of flaws and contradictions is any manga. And it means that in the first f**king chapter of the manga, the third hokage was already on the road out. And iruka is clearly not a reliable source since one technique does not a hokage make.

 

[TobisPawn]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Ok. I'm going to ask you your favorite food. And in 9 years when i ask you what your favorite food is you BETTER say the same exact thing or you're wrong. People can change their minds. Kishi is human. Do you think he reads 500+ chapters of his own manga every week before writing another chapter? No. There are plenty of flaws and contradictions is any manga.

And you think he'd make a contradiction that major? So what you're saying is that Kishi is a crappy writer, without any proof?

 

[The Necromancer]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

And you think he'd make a contradiction that major? So what you're saying is that Kishi is a crappy writer, without any proof?

Major? He drew the wrong headband on pain. This is not a MAJOR contradiction. He doesn't care about hiruzen anymore, we haven't seen his face or heard his name since the danzo fight while hashirama is getting powerups every 5 chapters or so. If kishi wanted to keep hiruzen as the best he would have given him some powerups or AT LEAST shown a flashback of him in part two to bump him up in the power scaling difference of part two. But he didn't. Because he doesn't care about hiruzen anymore. You hiruzen fans are acting as if this quote is the quote to end all quotes of the manga. It was YEARS ago and hasn't been repeated since.

And trust me. If iruka said the same thing now, you're right as hell that i'll say hiruzen was the strongest kage. But years ago when the manga was on its first legs? I don't think so.

And one more time for all of you. Quotes don't hold up to hype. Remember when kakashi said that ebizu was a better teacher than he was, and that he was an elite trainer of hokage? Not so much. He couldn't even teach naruto for one day. Pain was worshiped as a god, and konan was his angel. The so6p has no quotes saying he was a god, does that mean pain is better than him? Noooo. If part one was the end of naruto i would agree that hiruzen is the strongest, but since it was not, and since hashirama has been getting praise after praise and upgrade after upgrade, that overshadows part one and any feats or quotes shown in part one until they can be transitioned or reiterated in part two.

 

[TobisPawn]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Major? He drew the wrong headband on pain. This is not a MAJOR contradiction. He doesn't care about hiruzen anymore, we haven't seen his face or heard his name since the danzo fight while hashirama is getting powerups every 5 chapters or so. If kishi wanted to keep hiruzen as the best he would have given him some powerups or AT LEAST shown a flashback of him in part two to bump him up in the power scaling difference of part two. But he didn't. Because he doesn't care about hiruzen anymore. You hiruzen fans are acting as if this quote is the quote to end all quotes of the manga. It was YEARS ago and hasn't been repeated since.

And trust me. If iruka said the same thing now, you're right as hell that i'll say hiruzen was the strongest kage. But years ago when the manga was on its first legs? I don't think so.

A Konoha headband on Pain isn't major...but to give Hiruzen the nicknames "The God of Shinobi"," "The Professor," and the strongest Hokage, and then to state that he knew over 1,000 Genjutsus and every single exhisting jutsu in Konoha, and then to completely forget about him and only talk about Hashirama isn't a major contradiction?

So either Kishi is just giving Hashirama his time to shine (like he has with most every other Hokage), or he actually made a contradiction that big. If so, he's the only manga author I've seen do that. U_U

For your edit: Kakashi was trolling Naruto into accepting Ebisu's training...and Pain made the nickname "God" by himself. Hiruzen was GIVEN the nicknames he has.

 

[Tartarus]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

databook said the kusanagi blade can cut anything, the 2nd hokage was known as the greatest suiton user just because he could create water from his mouth, and water dragon jutsu takes 40 hand seals, hell we didn't even know any of the other hokage's names back in part 1. Recons happen people, the databooks simply tell you the current known data in the series when they were written. As far as we knew back then, Hiruzen was the strongest hokage, but we learn more and parts of the story change.

 

[The Necromancer]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

A Konoha headband on Pain isn't major...but to give Hiruzen the nicknames "The God of Shinobi"," "The Professor," and the strongest Hokage, and then to state that he knew over 1,000 Genjutsus and every single exhisting jutsu in Konoha, and then to completely forget about him and only talk about Hashirama isn't a major contradiction?

So either Kishi is just giving Hashirama his time to shine (like he has with most every other Hokage), or he actually made a contradiction that big. If so, he's the only manga author I've seen do that. U_U

For your edit: Kakashi was trolling Naruto into accepting Ebisu's training...and Pain made the nickname "God" by himself. Hiruzen was GIVEN the nicknames he has.

Look at it this way. Let's say Kennedy was called the greatest president of all time. (Prime minister, king, whatever yours is called from wherever you're from). Now let's say today in 2012, we find out that washington (the first president) killed the antichrist or something that nobody knew until this day. Could people change and say washington was the best? You bet they could. Changes happen in the story dude, kishi may be god of the narutoverse but he's not GOD, he doesn't even know where his story is going to go 100% of the time. Changes. Happen.

Now if kishi came out and showed us a diagram explaining that he had the story 100% worked out up until manga chapter 587 back in chapter 50 or so, then sure. I would take into consideration the quote from iruka. But he didn't, and so changes were allowed to happen.

 

[The Necromancer]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Can somebody pull up the chapter where it says hiruzen knew 1000 genjutsu? Because i don't remember that and besides people saying it, there's no evidence of that. Every jutsu in konoha is right but 1000 genjutsu? Noooot so sure...

 

[gazmatic]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

You can asume the SO6P was the strongest because he had the rinnegun, created jutsu an had the 10 tails. WHy can u asume the 3rd was the strongest beside the weakest ninja in the leaf village(iruka) sayin he was strong?

I didn't ASSUME anything. Who assumes that the SO6P is the strongest of them all? I am only regurgitating what was said in the manga. Some may list iruka as hiruzen's only hype yet seem to completely forget orochimaru. Does orochimaru count for nothing? If we had seen hiruzen prime and it paled in comparison to everyone else then and only then would I say its all hype. What we saw was an OLD hiruzen, not a prime hiruzen, which If I were to assume would be right after he became hokage after tobimara apparently died when hiruzen said, jokingly or whatnot, he was NOT going to die. So yh. we didn't see that hiruzen in action. dude. the current generation ALWAYS surpasses the former generation. It is not hard to imagine that hiruzen prime was indeed stronger than all the former kages. naruto will surpass his dad. kakashi surpass his dad. gaara surpass his dad. come on. its natural. the present is always better than the past. would you want to live fifty years in the past or is the current generation better? the only major contradiction kishi made was the whole byakugan/sharingan link. apart from that its just minor drawing errors, his plot is still within imaginable limits.

 

[james the fourth]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

I didn't ASSUME anything. Who assumes that the SO6P is the strongest of them all? I am only regurgitating what was said in the manga. Some may list iruka as hiruzen's only hype yet seem to completely forget orochimaru. Does orochimaru count for nothing? If we had seen hiruzen prime and it paled in comparison to everyone else then and only then would I say its all hype. What we saw was an OLD hiruzen, not a prime hiruzen, which If I were to assume would be right after he became hokage after tobimara apparently died when hiruzen said, jokingly or whatnot, he was NOT going to die. So yh. we didn't see that hiruzen in action. dude. the current generation ALWAYS surpasses the former generation. It is not hard to imagine that hiruzen prime was indeed stronger than all the former kages. naruto will surpass his dad. kakashi surpass his dad. gaara surpass his dad. come on. its natural. the present is always better than the past. would you want to live fifty years in the past or is the current generation better? the only major contradiction kishi made was the whole byakugan/sharingan link. apart from that its just minor drawing errors, his plot is still within imaginable limits.

the current generation doesnt always surpass the old generation

 

[tousen]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

If the author say its true who are we to argue :shrug:

I agree, he knows all; afterall

 

[Exaar]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

Can somebody pull up the chapter where it says hiruzen knew 1000 genjutsu? Because i don't remember that and besides people saying it, there's no evidence of that. Every jutsu in konoha is right but 1000 genjutsu? Noooot so sure...

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If you have more questions just go back to my Post on page 11.

 

[The Necromancer]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

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If you have more questions just go back to my Post on page 11.

Thank you!

 

[6pathofpain]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

I didn't ASSUME anything. Who assumes that the SO6P is the strongest of them all? I am only regurgitating what was said in the manga. Some may list iruka as hiruzen's only hype yet seem to completely forget orochimaru. Does orochimaru count for nothing? If we had seen hiruzen prime and it paled in comparison to everyone else then and only then would I say its all hype. What we saw was an OLD hiruzen, not a prime hiruzen, which If I were to assume would be right after he became hokage after tobimara apparently died when hiruzen said, jokingly or whatnot, he was NOT going to die. So yh. we didn't see that hiruzen in action. dude. the current generation ALWAYS surpasses the former generation. It is not hard to imagine that hiruzen prime was indeed stronger than all the former kages. naruto will surpass his dad. kakashi surpass his dad. gaara surpass his dad. come on. its natural. the present is always better than the past. would you want to live fifty years in the past or is the current generation better? the only major contradiction kishi made was the whole byakugan/sharingan link. apart from that its just minor drawing errors, his plot is still within imaginable limits.

My point is that there's reasons we can call people like the1st an SO6P incredbibly strong. When danzo, the 3rd an the second hokage were in war, which is when i would guess he was in his prime. If he was so strong him an the second along with the rest of those nobodies could of fought. Its was 20 ninja's an those twin dudes. I dout someone like the 1st would of lost to them, or even the 3rd raikage. The 1st because of his strength, healing, an wood style. An the 3rd because of his strength, speed an durablity. What does the 3rd bring to the table that makes him so great?He knows alot of justu? Cause so does kakashi...

 

[cabby007]

Re: databook is flawed and overhypes characters ( hiruzen )

can someone show me where mr kishimoto contradicts himself before? everyone says he has done it before but i dont ever remember it happening before.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Hiruzen was being toyed with

let me make one thing painfully clear..

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this states in black and white that oro and hokages were in fact toying since they wanted to see what hiruzen was capable of. and during most of the fight oro was standing around mocking hiruzen instead of getting himself involved. probably because he felt hashirama alone would be enough. tobirama only did one offensive jutsu then spent the rest of the match using just taijutsu. would oro who is intending to kill hiruzen as fast as possible really make the hokages only use taijutsu when hiruzens permanently trapped in darkness? would he really only use 2 or 3 jutsus of his own (hidden snake hands, edo tensei, longsword of the sky) if he really wanted to finish it as soon as possible? he didnt even cancel edo tensei to save his summons meaning he thought he could handle it without them. would the legendaru senju hashirama whos cells oro has studied really only use one mokuton ninjutsu, and not his other abilities? hiruzen appealed to his interest in seeing a jutus he hadnt before, and thats it. if he wanted he could have ended it then and there and hiruzen cant do anything about it

 

[El Batman]

Re: Hiruzen was being toyed with

Tobirama owns! My favorite Kage, until Naruto becomes Hokage

 

[Hokage Sharingan Kakashi]

Re: Hiruzen was being toyed with

There we go. A logical thinker. +rep my friend.