[VS] Hiruzen Sarutobi vs. Tsunade Senju

[KingHashirama]

Tsunade smashed Madara's wood clone.. same wood clone that was giving them trouble.. or atleast had the capabilities of Madara.... Now again...... give me a scan and a on-screen feat of hiruzen that shows he can dodge.......


This is about on-screen only. Meaning whats shown in the panel. Side assumptions don't count here.

You gave me 2 scans.. yet showed no time base in them..


And did you just compare avoiding Pollen to..... running up on a gate?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Tsunade smashed Madara's wood clone.. same wood clone that was giving them trouble.. or atleast had the capabilities of Madara.... Now again...... give me a scan and a on-screen feat of hiruzen that shows he can dodge.......

Ok. Hiruzen almost dodged the strongest and fastest character, during that time frame[

You must be registered for see links

]. Someones movements that are far far superior then Edo Madara and his clone.

This is about on-screen only. Meaning whats shown in the panel. Side assumptions don't count here.

Except this isn't a assumption. I literally post a scan of the distance to where Hiurzen was and literally post the scan that during the time frame of Minato trying to talk to a mindless Obito, Hiruzen steps in.

You gave me 2 scans.. yet showed no time base in them..

Except thats impossible to argue time frame through reading manga, that doesn't mean we can't make judgement on how fast the character had to be to do X, Y, and Z.

And did you just compare avoiding Pollen to..... running up on a gate?

Yup since the Gates has much better height then Flower Tree worlds extension.

 

[KingHashirama]

- You showed me a scan where Hiruzen got fodderized by Obito

- But the time frame is inncorrect.. and neither is it a fighting speed.

- then you can always use the anime.

- Gates also don't have a pollen coming down on them.. They also have a path for ninja to run on..... They also aren't attacking the ninja... while he/she avoid pollen.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

- You showed me a scan where Hiruzen got fodderized by Obito

You ignored the first strike.

- But the time frame is inncorrect.. and neither is it a fighting speed.

No its correct, just look at the chapter and page number. Speed and speed stop making things up.

- then you can always use the anime.

??????

- Gates also don't have a pollen coming down on them.. They also have a path for ninja to run on..... They also aren't attacking the ninja... while he/she avoid pollen.

So what if it doesn't the height of the Gate goes much much higher then the length of trees that produce the pollen. Pollens dont attack ninjas either, which is why Madara push and forced them inside.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Tsunade slapped away 5 human sized Katons and ya'll believe that it's not even a great feat. She healed from burnt skin in seconds.

My point is... some people in this thread think that feat would over come Hiruzen's boss summon size katons. And did you even notice how she ran out of chakra right after taking those puny katon?

To your speed of light argument...

You must be registered for see links

You can tell by her wounds, the damage done by "traveling at the speed of light" is a cutting property. Which means that you can't compare it to raiton because raiton is literally vaporization, something far more deadly than cuts. Sasuke's Chidori Spear can harm beings such as the Hachibi, a beast who is so durable that he can tank his own Bijuudama.

You know what they say in many fiction? In order to kill something with high-speed regeneration is to kill it before it regenerates. And vaporization from raiton would be a proper way of handling with Tsunade's regen considering that a raiton from a 20% Hiruzen clone is more than enough to engulf Tsunade's entire body, much less a full powered raiton form Hiruzen...

 

[KingHashirama]

1. he was hit on the first strike. And obito didn't even blitz him there.

2. you forgot the slot of time that came between them going over to the place... read 2 pages before the scan you posted him on top of the gate.

3. only problem is trees are not straight up trees.... unlike the gates....climbing the gates should be easy for them..

 

[Brother Numpsay]

1. he was hit on the first strike. And obito didn't even blitz him there.

2. you forgot the slot of time that came between them going over to the place... read 2 pages before the scan you posted him on top of the gate.

3. only problem is trees are not straight up trees.... unlike the gates....climbing the gates should be easy for them..

1.) You should probably read my point again:

Ok. Hiruzen almost dodged the strongest and fastest character, during that time frame[1]. Someones movements that are far far superior then Edo Madara and his clone.

2. No I didn't, your repeating everything that I pointed out.

3. Not worth a reply, since that makes 0 sense and 0 reasoning.

 

[RedRobin]

My point is... some people in this thread think that feat would over come Hiruzen's boss summon size katons. And did you even notice how she ran out of chakra right after taking those puny katon?

To your speed of light argument...

You must be registered for see links

You can tell by her wounds, the damage done by "traveling at the speed of light" is a cutting property. Which means that you can't compare it to raiton because raiton is literally vaporization, something far more deadly than cuts. Sasuke's Chidori Spear can harm beings such as the Hachibi, a beast who is so durable that he can tank his own Bijuudama.

You know what they say in many fiction? In order to kill something with high-speed regeneration is to kill it before it regenerates. And vaporization from raiton would be a proper way of handling with Tsunade's regen considering that a raiton from a 20% Hiruzen clone is more than enough to engulf Tsunade's entire body, much less a full powered raiton form Hiruzen...

Not boss summon katons, Buddha itself is the size of a boss summon, the katons are much smaller. Well duh she has been healing the gokage, regenerating herself and fighting. That is her reserve from after her coma in the pain arc which couldnt have happened more than a month ago.

Compare

You must be registered for see links

to

You must be registered for see links

.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Her body should have been ripped apart from the power of the speed of light. Since when is raiton not a cutting property? The thing Tsunade was put through was not raiton but was a lightning bolt, which she traveled through with minimal damage.

 

[Draegod]

Not boss summon katons, Buddha itself is the size of a boss summon, the katons are much smaller. Well duh she has been healing the gokage, regenerating herself and fighting. That is her reserve from after her coma in the pain arc which couldnt have happened more than a month ago.

Compare

You must be registered for see links

to

You must be registered for see links

.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Her body should have been ripped apart from the power of the speed of light. Since when is raiton not a cutting property? The thing Tsunade was put through was not raiton but was a lightning bolt, which she traveled through with minimal damage.

lol Lightning bolts doesn't move at the speed of light. I dont wanna waste time breaking it down for even you to understand (because you're not worth the time) but i just wanted to let you know lightning doesn't move at the speed of light.

 

[RedRobin]

lol Lightning bolts doesn't move at the speed of light. I dont wanna waste time breaking it down for even you to understand (because you're not worth the time) but i just wanted to let you know lightning doesn't move at the speed of light.

Its literally states 'speed of light' so whatever she is traveling through, which looks like a lightning bolt, its moving at the speed of light.

 

[Bantos]

Tsunade smashed Madara's wood clone.. same wood clone that was giving them trouble.. or atleast had the capabilities of Madara.... Now again...... give me a scan and a on-screen feat of hiruzen that shows he can dodge.......


This is about on-screen only. Meaning whats shown in the panel. Side assumptions don't count here.

You gave me 2 scans.. yet showed no time base in them..


And did you just compare avoiding Pollen to..... running up on a gate?

Tsunade never smashed a wood clone, but the real edo Madara. The mokuton bunshin was used after the strike.

Do I have to make a thread about this subject?

You must be registered for see links

If she wasn't that concerned about fire style she wouldn't have bothered. She gets fried.

Still weren't a problem for her though. :|

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Not boss summon katons, Buddha itself is the size of a boss summon, the katons are much smaller. Well duh she has been healing the gokage, regenerating herself and fighting. That is her reserve from after her coma in the pain arc which couldnt have happened more than a month ago.

Compare

You must be registered for see links

to

You must be registered for see links

.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Her body should have been ripped apart from the power of the speed of light. Since when is raiton not a cutting property? The thing Tsunade was put through was not raiton but was a lightning bolt, which she traveled through with minimal damage.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

From this view, the buddha is so large that we can't even see Spiral Zetsu/Yamato. So I don't think boss summons are as big as the buddha.

Since were comparing sizes with humans, look at Hiruzen in the panel. He's just a tiny stick figure compared to the length of his elemental barrage while we can clearly Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura compared to their summons. I think it's safe to say that each respective element attack is boss summon size.

To prove it even more, take a look at this:

You must be registered for see links

These fodder no-name Sarutobi clan members performed katon. If you look closely, you can see that the each katon is larger than the Juubi's head. Now look at this:

You must be registered for see links

Killer Bee is smaller than the Juubi's head. You get where I'm getting at? Fodder Sarutobi clan members have bijuu+ sized katons.
Yes Hiruzen has no feats of doing something that large, but I think it's logical to say that Hiruzen should be able to replicate the same thing considering that he's officially the strongest of his clan.

And the heat of those Katon evaporated a shit ton of water to make concrete with the ash from Kumogakure. I find it hard to believe that Tsunade can regenerate from something that evaporated a Juubi sized volume of water.

And are you sure that's a lightning bolt? It could be Kishimoto's way of drawing that they are going at extremely high speeds. Kishi drew Naruto the same way when he first activated bijuu mode, like a lightning bolt.

 

[Conspirator.]

Hiruzen's speed feats... tell me what he has better than MAdara that'll allow him to dodge Tsunade's punch... Please do tell me what on screen feats he has, that can match Tsunad'es on screen feats.

No. Tsunade never blitzed the real Madara, but a clone. Plus, it's blatantly obvious that Madara allowed it to happen, as his plan was to allow them to seal the clone, and surprise attack them with his real body. Unless you actually think Tsunade's speed>Madara's, which is extremely moronic.

Minato>Hashirama>Tobirama>Hiruzen>Tsunade

No. Hashirama>Minato>Tobirama>Hiruzen>Tsunade

Tsunade never smashed a wood clone, but the real edo Madara. The mokuton bunshin was used after the strike.

Do I have to make a thread about this subject?



Still weren't a problem for her though. :|

Read above

OT: Hiruzen wins mid diff. With enma, he has the edge in a CQC bout. His massive shurikens will also be problematic for Tsunade. She can tank them, but a barrage will force her to use up her healing. Then,Hiruzen overwhelms with an elemental spam. It's obvious that the suitons in the manga are salt water, given the fact that Kisame's sharks swam in them, so Katsuyu will receive damage, while the real Tsunade gets killed.

 

[Touken]

Hiruzen mid diff. Bijuu+ sized elemental attacks would eventually overwhelm Tsunade.

 

[TheEvilOne]

A clone taking down Tsunade? A suiton takes down Katsuyu even though slug usually prefer humid areas? Hiruzen can kill her with his B rank fuutons and Katons? Dear god.

Hiruzen mid diff. Bijuu+ sized elemental attacks would eventually overwhelm Tsunade.

Eventually? What? Are you suggesting alive and old Hiruzne would risk to spam techniques like this? Rofl. He can barely make two shadow clones and use 3-4 small scaled katons.

 

[makosheva7]

I think the general consensus is that Enma is what disables Tsunade from even hitting Hiruzen (he used Enma to fend off the friggin Kyuubi). If Tsunade had KB, then maybe she could surprise Hiruzen but she doesn't. The question is whether Tsunade can heal past Hiruzen's versatility of attacks. Because of this stamina query, Hiruzen wins high diff or him winning 8/10 times is likely.

 

[Bantos]

I think the general consensus is that Enma is what disables Tsunade from even hitting Hiruzen (he used Enma to fend off the friggin Kyuubi). If Tsunade had KB, then maybe she could surprise Hiruzen but she doesn't. The question is whether Tsunade can heal past Hiruzen's versatility of attacks. Because of this stamina query, Hiruzen wins high diff or him winning 8/10 times is likely.

What is this? Enma isn't even a factor here. Tsunade can easily disarm Enma in a staff form from Hiruzen, and she can easily kill Enma in his animal form. Tsunade > Hiruzen in pretty much everything.

 

[makosheva7]

What is this? Enma isn't even a factor here. Tsunade can easily disarm Enma in a staff form from Hiruzen, and she can easily kill Enma in his animal form. Tsunade > Hiruzen in pretty much everything.

Enma can retract and extend at Hiruzen will. Is Tsunade known for lightning quick reflexes? No. Therefore she gets owned in CQC because her reflexes are definitely not faster than the rate of Enma's retraction and extension.

Plus, if that were to somehow happen, however improbable, and Tsunade got close enough, Hiruzen could just blow her up with a explosive tag, and while she heals he can distance himself and use all of his other techniques.

Versatility >> One Option (Strong physical attack) always. But because of Tsunade's healing properties it can go mid diff.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

A clone taking down Tsunade? A suiton takes down Katsuyu even though slug usually prefer humid areas? Hiruzen can kill her with his B rank fuutons and Katons? Dear god.

I sincerely hope you're not thinking the stuff he used in the Orochimaru fight is on the same level as the stuff he did in chapter 662.

 

[Benjamin King]

Raiton paralyses Tsunade's nerve system, which should disturb her Yin Seal Chakra, because it's focused on the brain. Futon can chop her limbs to pieces, which she can't regenerate as proven with Madara. Doton can be used to block her punches. Katon and Suiton should weaken her throughout the fight, constantly wasting Chakra to recover from each. Other than that, Hiruzen has better CQC via his speed (which is on par with Hashirama and Tobirama) and Enma's transformation.

Hiruzen low-mid diff.