[VS] Hiruzen Sarutobi vs. Tsunade Senju

TheEvilOne · Oct 22, 2014

makosheva7 said:
Enma can retract and extend at Hiruzen will. Is Tsunade known for lightning quick reflexes? No. Therefore she gets owned in CQC because her reflexes are definitely not faster than the rate of Enma's retraction and extension.

Plus, if that were to somehow happen, however improbable, and Tsunade got close enough, Hiruzen could just blow her up with a explosive tag, and while she heals he can distance himself and use all of his other techniques.

Versatility >> One Option (Strong physical attack) always. But because of Tsunade's healing properties it can go mid diff.

Um, yes, she is actually known for her impressive reflexes. As a medical ninja and a taijutsu oriented fighter she is skilled in evasion. Even in weakened state ( fear of blood, stabs to her internal organs ) she was fast enough to stop Orochimaru multiple times from killing Naruto. In war arc she was able to coordinate attacks with Ay, blitz Madara's mokuton bunshins and protect the Gokage from five katons when no one was able to even react/ attempt to dodge.

She is definitely faster than Hiruzen and she has more impressive CqC feats. Her strength makes her formidable, but that's not the only thing in her arsenal that will help her to mid diff Hiruzen.

makosheva7 · Oct 22, 2014

TheEvilOne said:
Um, yes, she is actually known for her impressive reflexes. As a medical ninja and a taijutsu oriented fighter she is skilled in evasion. Even in weakened state ( fear of blood, stabs to her internal organs ) she was fast enough to stop Orochimaru multiple times from killing Naruto. In war arc she was able to coordinate attacks with Ay, blitz Madara's mokuton bunshins and protect the Gokage from five katons when no one was able to even react/ attempt to dodge.

She is definitely faster than Hiruzen and she has more impressive CqC feats. Her strength makes her formidable, but that's not the only thing in her arsenal that will help her to mid diff Hiruzen.

Even if she does have impressive reflexes as you claim, how can she predict whether Hiruzen will extend or retract Enma especially if she's close enough? (Which she will be because that's her only strategy) He can literally troll her by wacking her in the face repeatedly because she can't predict Enma's movements. And again, if she gets a hold of Enma by some slim chance, Hiruzen has PLENTY to deal with her.

Her attacks are way too one dimensional to bother Hiruzen.

Rainbow Dash · Oct 22, 2014

Tsunade's only way to defeat Hiruzen is to land a direct hit with her punch. But people don't realize that can be used to Hiruzen's advantage. Getting close to Hiruzen means that she will become an easier target to hit. Tsunade and Sakura's fighting style is to jump high towards the enemy and punch them. The problem is that when she's in the air, she is unable to change her direction since she does not have flying powers. Thus, it shall be her downfall if she decides to lunge in for a killing blow.

inb4tsunadeissofastthathecantreact

TheEvilOne · Oct 22, 2014

makosheva7 said:
Even if she does have impressive reflexes as you claim, how can she predict whether Hiruzen will extend or retract Enma especially if she's close enough? (Which she will be because that's her only strategy) He can literally troll her by wacking her in the face repeatedly because she can't predict Enma's movements. And again, if she gets a hold of Enma by some slim chance, Hiruzen has PLENTY to deal with her.

Her attacks are way too one dimensional to bother Hiruzen.

Since when is Enma so unpredictable? Even early part2 Sakura- who was nowhere as smart and experienced as Tsunade- was able to analyze Sasori's complex fighting style in mere minutes. Compared to that Enma is well...nothing.

Tsunade can grab that staff, take it from Hiruzen and wreck him, the same way she impaled Madara with his own Susanoo blade.

Hiruzen's only chance of winning is his feat against that buddha statue, but from what we know about him, he won't use it in his 'mortal' state due to the fact that he would die from chakra exhaustion.

Tsunade's one dimensional fighting style was useful against ninjas like Orochimaru and Madara, and we all know Hiruzen is gennin level compared to those two.

makosheva7 · Oct 22, 2014

TheEvilOne said:
Since when is Enma so unpredictable? Even early part2 Sakura- who was nowhere as smart and experienced as Tsunade- was able to analyze Sasori's complex fighting style in mere minutes. Compared to that Enma is well...nothing.

Tsunade can grab that staff, take it from Hiruzen and wreck him, the same way she impaled Madara with his own Susanoo blade.

Hiruzen's only chance of winning is his feat against that buddha statue, but from what we know about him, he won't use it in his 'mortal' state due to the fact that he would die from chakra exhaustion.

Tsunade's one dimensional fighting style was useful against ninjas like Orochimaru and Madara, and we all know Hiruzen is gennin level compared to those two.

Enma is going to listen on command to Tsunade if she somehow takes it? I don't think so. And Sakura dodged all those attacks because they came from a far enough distance. The closer Tsunade is to Hiruzen, the smaller time she has to react to a hit from Enma. It's not like I'm saying Enma is what ends her, it's just what disables her from landing a hit on Hiruzen.

And Oro didn't have usable arms in that situation. And Madara was 4 other Kages at the time.

TheEvilOne · Oct 22, 2014

makosheva7 said:
Enma is going to listen on command to Tsunade if she somehow takes it? I don't think so. And Sakura dodged all those attacks because they came from a far enough distance. The closer Tsunade is to Hiruzen, the smaller time she has to react to a hit from Enma. It's not like I'm saying Enma is what ends her, it's just what disables her from landing a hit on Hiruzen.

And Oro didn't have usable arms in that situation. And Madara was 4 other Kages at the time.

He doesn't have to listen. Tsunade is physically superior to Hiruzen, therefore she can take Enma from him. If Enma turns back before Tsunade wrecks Hiruzen, she can easily kill him.

I wasn't talking about dodging the puppets, I was talking about the fact that she was able to analyze his whole fighting style. As I remember both Sasori and Chiyo praised her.

And Tsunade was rusty ( according to Orochimaru she retreated from the front lines circa 20 years ago ) and she was afraid of blood. She couldn't even move properly due to her fear of blood. They were both equally handicapped if you ask me.

Not when she impaled him with his own weapon, but agree, that was a team battle. The main problem with Tsunade is that she lacks a decent 1vs1 battle.

At any rate, IMO Edo Hiruzen beats her with mid difficulty, part1 Hiruzen loses with low-mid difficulty and Hiruzen ( with edo feats ) loses with mid-high difficulty.

super yang · Oct 22, 2014

I find it amazing that even the people arguing for Hiruzen think Tsunade will survive a 2nd combo/won't be fully incapacitated by the 1st combo.

''test her healing & stamina'' ...darui or mei would test her capabilities.
But the greatest offensive ninjutsu user in the manga?
He obliterates her, by feats...

TheEvilOne · Oct 22, 2014

super yang said:
I find it amazing that even the people arguing for Hiruzen think Tsunade will survive a 2nd combo/won't be fully incapacitated by the 1st combo.

''test her healing & stamina'' ...darui or mei would test her capabilities.
But the greatest offensive ninjutsu user in the manga?
He obliterates her, by feats...

Lel.

I can list at least 10 if not more shinobies who have more impressive elemental attacks.

super yang · Oct 22, 2014

TheEvilOne said:
Lel.

I can list at least 10 if not more shinobies who have more impressive elemental attacks.

So can I, whats ur point?

TheEvilOne · Oct 22, 2014

super yang said:
So can I, whats ur point?

You contradict yourself then.

super yang · Oct 22, 2014

TheEvilOne said:
You contradict yourself then.

how so????????

(this should be fun

)

Selan · Oct 22, 2014

super yang said:
I find it amazing that even the people arguing for Hiruzen think Tsunade will survive a 2nd combo/won't be fully incapacitated by the 1st combo.

''test her healing & stamina'' ...darui or mei would test her capabilities.
But the greatest offensive ninjutsu user in the manga?
He obliterates her, by feats...

After Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, Madara, Hashirama, Obito, Nagato, Minato, Tobirama, Kabuto, Itachi, Mu, Orochimaru and some other people, yes, maybe.

super yang · Oct 22, 2014

Selan said:
After Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, Madara, Hashirama, Obito, Nagato, Minato, Tobirama, Kabuto, Itachi, Mu, Orochimaru and some other people, yes, maybe.

well, then we'll have to disagree, unl;ess ur basing that on things/jutsu that weren't shown(or by who is stronger).

makosheva7 · Oct 22, 2014

super yang said:
I find it amazing that even the people arguing for Hiruzen think Tsunade will survive a 2nd combo/won't be fully incapacitated by the 1st combo.

''test her healing & stamina'' ...darui or mei would test her capabilities.
But the greatest offensive ninjutsu user in the manga?
He obliterates her, by feats...

I think you mean greatest elemental offensive ninjutsu user.

super yang · Oct 22, 2014

makosheva7 said:
I think you mean greatest elemental offensive ninjutsu user.

nope, I meant offensive ninjutsu in general & overall.

and to start this off for anyone who's interested, my top 30, so we can start the basis for inquiries & such. if the inquiry goes that far...

01 Kaguya
02 Naruto
03 Sasuke
04 Madara
05 Hashirama
06 Obito
07 Nagato
08 Kabuto
09 Itachi
10 Hiruzen
11 Kirabi
12 Orochimaru
13 Minato
14 Muu
15 Sasori
16 Jiraiya
17 Tobirama
18 3rd/4th Raikage
19 Danzou
20 Onoki
21 Kisame
22 Deidara
23 kakuzu
24 Tsunade
25 Gaara
26 Trollkage
27 Hanzo
28 Kakashi
29 Chiyo
30 Konan

Bantos · Oct 23, 2014

makosheva7 said:
Enma can retract and extend at Hiruzen will. Is Tsunade known for lightning quick reflexes? No. Therefore she gets owned in CQC because her reflexes are definitely not faster than the rate of Enma's retraction and extension.

Plus, if that were to somehow happen, however improbable, and Tsunade got close enough, Hiruzen could just blow her up with a explosive tag, and while she heals he can distance himself and use all of his other techniques.

Versatility >> One Option (Strong physical attack) always. But because of Tsunade's healing properties it can go mid diff.

Actually she does have awesome reflexes, reacting instantly after moving at the speed of light pretty much proves it, same for the time when she protected the gokage from the fireballs from da Madz.
What does extending help when Tsunade can still just grab it and throw it away? Or just snap it in half. So we're giving them tools now, huh? Tsunade regenerates everything, a simple exploding tag wouldn't help that much. I doubt it'd even land on her.
Tsunade is faster, has more stamina and stronger of course. :| No matter how versatile Hiruzen is he can't take her on. Tsunade even has Katsuyu that can canonically only be killed by absorbing it's chakra.

makosheva7 · Oct 23, 2014

Bantos said:
Actually she does have awesome reflexes, reacting instantly after moving at the speed of light pretty much proves it, same for the time when she protected the gokage from the fireballs from da Madz.
What does extending help when Tsunade can still just grab it and throw it away? Or just snap it in half. So we're giving them tools now, huh? Tsunade regenerates everything, a simple exploding tag wouldn't help that much. I doubt it'd even land on her.
Tsunade is faster, has more stamina and stronger of course. :| No matter how versatile Hiruzen is he can't take her on. Tsunade even has Katsuyu that can canonically only be killed by absorbing it's chakra.

What?... What??... literally wtf?

Bantos · Oct 23, 2014

makosheva7 said:
What?... What??... literally wtf?

Read the manga. :|

MickNerks · Oct 23, 2014

Match starts:

Hiruzen throws a