hiruzen sarutobi vs minato namikize

[ItachiTAS]

I have to say I only read the first page but good on you NB. I thought this was going to be a 'minato wins easy' spam fest. Kishimoto has stated that the 3rd was the strongest hokage - sooooo that means hiruzen wins

Minato's speed means nothing unless the seal for his technique is on or near the enemy - seeing as how the 3rd knew all about ftg I dont think he would give minato the opening to get the seal close to him. And if you need an explaination of how he could do this see Owarij's post with the picture

Maybe you're right.but we can't disregard minato's speed while fighting tobi and STB.the original answer is NO ONE CAN TELL.only kishi cause his word is law.why don't WE FIND OUT OURSELVES?i'll take minato in my team and you can take hiruzen.then we'll fight making use of their best jutsus.i need 2- 3posts and i'll post the link to the site here.it is fun and awesome to be an ORIGINAL HOKAGE and fight!

 

[TheLaw]

Except for the fact that they still had the sharingan. And Hashirama's KG. And there were some people from those clans in Hiruzen's former team.

So no matter at what point in time, Hiruzen would never have been able to perform EVERY jutsu in Konoha. Given the fact that Konoha is made up of mostly unique clan abilities and unique summons, what does that leave for Hiruzen? Elemental jutsu, and things like kagebunshin and sealing?

Please, please, please just accept the fact that the manga contradicts itself often. Don't blame me for how the manga was written. It isn't my fault that Kishi didn't have enough foresight to make sure that his info wouldn't contradict itself later.

Yeah and as i said earlier he was student of second hokage and couldnt use his s/t jutsu, so even if we remove all clan abilities and KGs it still is a lie.7

 

[Owarij]

Except for the fact that they still had the sharingan. And Hashirama's KG. And there were some people from those clans in Hiruzen's former team.

So no matter at what point in time, Hiruzen would never have been able to perform EVERY jutsu in Konoha. Given the fact that Konoha is made up of mostly unique clan abilities and unique summons, what does that leave for Hiruzen? Elemental jutsu, and things like kagebunshin and sealing?

Please, please, please just accept the fact that the manga contradicts itself often. Don't blame me for how the manga was written. It isn't my fault that Kishi didn't have enough foresight to make sure that his info wouldn't contradict itself later.

Note the scan ... "ALL EXISTING KONOHA JUTSU"
Hashirama was already dead.....sharingan isnot a jutsu.........Noone had mangekyou sharingan and could use tsukyomi etc, because Madara and izuna were dead or assumed dead,(Madara left konoha)

Yeah and as i said earlier he was student of second hokage and couldnt use his s/t jutsu, so even if we remove all clan abilities and KGs it still is a lie.7

Existing....Meaning current moment.... when he got the title, they were dead and Thus its wasnt a existing konoha jutsu, because noone in Konoha could use it at the time

The original scan : Existing

NOT EVER EXISTED IN KONOHA...do you see how scanalation errors made by manga sites can throw everything out of porpotion?

Your point has been defeated sir

 

[Reborn]

I just got back from being banned so ima take it easy on u...
Tsunade is credited for being the reason kohona won the 2nd war did u know that? The members of uchiha clan was said to make opponent flee instead of facing them 1 on 1 did u know that? Point is that he isn't the greatest war hero or the only shinobi feared by other villages...

Now sarutobi was promoted to hokage mid war mid war get it ? That's his feat...

Now 4 dat idiot that wanted to know how he can beat minato, knowing all jutsu in the village gives him the knowledge to counter them (look at oro fight) based on minato fans its can't kill what u can't touch well it goes the same way for minato mud walls mud clones shadow clones replacement jutsu shadow shuriken all are easy counters for ftg (which is just a ****in reverse summon something the 4th didn't create). Who said the 4th was better at seals? U dont know dat what a asinine statement

If I may ask, what did you do to get banned so early. You've only been here since Oct.

Anyway Tsunade was credited to be the reason becasuse of her amazing medical abilitise, which we've seen demonstrated on a few occasions so we saw how she was given that credit, and how she was praised to such a high extent.

From what we've seen from the Uchihas...I mean really you don't think that from what we've seen from an Uchiha that we have evidence to why that would be so? Look at Sasuke, Shisui, Madara, Tobi, Itachi. We definatly know why people don't want to F*** with Uchihas. Anyway where did it say you were supposed to flee from an Uchiha rather then face them 1 on 1?

I'm not denying it, my memory may be shot, but I want to know where, even if you just point me to the Wiki, where did it say that?

I wasn't stating that Minato was the greatest war hero, I was just saying the proof to the rep he had. Iwa was said to flee when they saw Minato, and reason/evidence was given as to why. Hiruzen was called God of Shinobi and the professor. The evidence surrounding that is very vauge. It's not to say that he didn't live up to his title, but the evidence that stands right now is too vauge so people can't just say Hiruzen wins in his prime because he was God of Shinobi or bs like that. I mean you can, but it's not going to hold up as a legit argument that people will respect (not me at least).

Now for your logic as to how Minato may not be able to hit Hiruzen, take the amount of time it takes for Hiruzen to preform shadow clones, mud walls and such jutsu...now take the time it takes for Minato to teleport to him with Ftg. I'm just saying, if you can get to your opponent within a time interval when they're vulnerable you have the advantage.

This is an indecisive match if we're comparing Minato vs Hiruzen (prime). If it's Minato vs Hiruzen from what we've seen then that's another story.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Doesn't that mean kishi said it since he wrote the manga? I wouldnt mind seeing these contradictions just for interest sake.

I dont doubt that minato is fast without FTG, I just mean that his major advantage is reduced because the 3rd would know what he is trying to set up

Well if you look up you will see one of the bigger contradictions so far. Important because it deals with Hiruzen directly.

Another is what the eight tails said to Naruto about KM.
He said "the 9-tails is no pushover, if you use clones in this mode then the 9-tails will take all of your chakra and you will die" Naruto is now using dozens of KM clones plus hundreds of span rasengan clones. Contradiction made by Kishi.

There are many others as well. The Naruto manga is just like Starburst, a juicy contradiction.


EDIT: to Reborn, Chiyo said that if you find yourself one on one with an Uchiha the best option is to run. She said that when it was Naruto, kakashi, Sakura, and Chiyo vs. Itachi's 30% chakra clone.

 

[Owarij]

So yes Itachi namikaze , I stated above clearly you are wrong, You clearly act like you have defeated my point, cocky as you may be, but you have a wrong translation, Hiruzen knew all existing konoha jutsu at the time he got the title proffessor

We know when konoha had just formed there were senju and uchiha, few clans could have came in... sarutobi being one of them, The hiden clans may not have joined konoha just yet...

You must be registered for see images

Check above for my full post if you havent already..

And as orochimaru said
"Please don't dissapoint me"
^^ i have fun arguing points, and I will only admit defeat when i hve lost without a doubt..


I'll wait for you're reply.... that is if you intend on coming back xD

 

[TheLaw]

So yes Itachi namikaze , I stated above clearly you are wrong, You clearly act like you have defeated my point, cocky as you may be, but you have a wrong translation, Hiruzen knew all existing konoha jutsu at the time he got the title proffessor

We know when konoha had just formed there were senju and uchiha, few clans could have came in... sarutobi being one of them, The hiden clans may not have joined konoha just yet...

You must be registered for see images

Check above for my full post if you havent already..

And as orochimaru said
"Please don't dissapoint me"
^^ i have fun arguing points, and I will only admit defeat when i hve lost without a doubt..


I'll wait for you're reply.... that is if you intend on coming back xD

3rd time he was pupil of second hokage, but couldnt perform his s/t jutsu.

 

[Owarij]

3rd time he was pupil of second hokage, but couldnt perform his s/t jutsu.

He wasn't deemed professor then... he was deemed sometime after becoming hokage, which was a young age... and also - Existing konoha jutsu, not all konoha jutsu that ever existed, 2nd hokage died the day he appointed 3rd hokage and thus his jutsu was not existing within konoha anymore

ex·ist·ing/igˈzistiNG/
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.
Synonyms:
existent - present - being - extant - in existence

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

3rd time he was pupil of second hokage, but couldnt perform his s/t jutsu.

Dude I would just give up. I already responded to him and he refuses to admit it. he refuses to admit defeat when I have proof right in front of his eyes. There never was any time that Hiruzen could perform all of the jutsu in Konoha.


Whether it be because of KG's, unique summons, Tobirama's ST, Mokuton or whatever. There is literally no way. This kids entire point is riding on some harebrained idea that at one point in the history of Konoha there were no clans with special abilities. Except for the fact that the Uchihas were founding member who are known for their KG. And that there are people in Hiruzen's former team who were Akimichi and etc. and had clan abilities that Hiruzen couldn't.

So yeah this kid tries to act like he's got something on me, but I have proven him wrong and he is grasping at non-existent straws.

 

[TheLaw]

He wasn't deemed professor then... he was deemed sometime after becoming hokage, which was a young age... and also - Existing konoha jutsu, not all konoha jutsu that ever existed, 2nd hokage died the day he appointed 3rd hokage and thus his jutsu was not existing within konoha anymore

ex·ist·ing/igˈzistiNG/
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.
Synonyms:
existent - present - being - extant - in existence

I havent ever saw when he was givenname the professor, ive just saw hes called the professor. Its like it wont be so valuable anymore when u say its when there wasnt any great techniques at time he was pointed that name but he still could perform them. Exspecially when we take away all clan techs and KG:S what is left there? he couldnt even use all five elements how could he perform all techs?

 

[Owarij]

Dude I would just give up. I already responded to him and he refuses to admit it. he refuses to admit defeat when I have proof right in front of his eyes. There never was any time that Hiruzen could perform all of the jutsu in Konoha.


Whether it be because of KG's, unique summons, Tobirama's ST, Mokuton or whatever. There is literally no way. This kids entire point is riding on some harebrained idea that at one point in the history of Konoha there were no clans with special abilities. Except for the fact that the Uchihas were founding member who are known for their KG. And that there are people in Hiruzen's former team who were Akimichi and etc. and had clan abilities that Hiruzen couldn't.

So yeah this kid tries to act like he's got something on me, but I have proven him wrong and he is grasping at non-existent straws.

You have proven nothing to me.... as i said up untill a certain point he knew all the jutsu in konoha,Stop saying hiruzen couldn't .....Only confirmed clan member was akimichi torufu.... and who is to say that when akimichi first joined konoha they made their tech hiden? you realize hiden tecs are not kekke genkai, and anyone can learn them right?... Don't kid yourself, Orochimaru didn't exagerate his ability one bit... Konoha was still small , consiting of about 4 clans.. compared to what it is today

I will say again , sharingan is not a jutsu, its a kekke genkai.. The jutsu's used by it are from mangekyou sharingan.... And their was no ms users, izuna and madara were dead or suspected dead

I havent ever saw when he was givenname the professor, ive just saw hes called the professor. Its like it wont be so valuable anymore when u say its when there wasnt any great techniques at time he was pointed that name but he still could perform them. Exspecially when we take away all clan techs and KG:S what is left there? he couldnt even use all five elements how could he perform all techs?

Exactly we don't know when he was appointed it

You must be registered for see images

But orochimaru is clear as day talking in the past tense... so when ever he did get the name, he could have used all the konoha jutsu, and seeing that konoha was still a small village, before everyone joined in, IT's more than possible....

 

[TheLaw]

Dude I would just give up. I already responded to him and he refuses to admit it. he refuses to admit defeat when I have proof right in front of his eyes. There never was any time that Hiruzen could perform all of the jutsu in Konoha.


Whether it be because of KG's, unique summons, Tobirama's ST, Mokuton or whatever. There is literally no way. This kids entire point is riding on some harebrained idea that at one point in the history of Konoha there were no clans with special abilities. Except for the fact that the Uchihas were founding member who are known for their KG. And that there are people in Hiruzen's former team who were Akimichi and etc. and had clan abilities that Hiruzen couldn't.

So yeah this kid tries to act like he's got something on me, but I have proven him wrong and he is grasping at non-existent straws.

Yeah but who doesnt give up, cant lose in arguing. pforessor had 2 elements and 5 elements are needed to perform all the techs. =)

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

I havent ever saw when he was givenname the professor, ive just saw hes called the professor. Its like it wont be so valuable anymore when u say its when there wasnt any great techniques at time he was pointed that name but he still could perform them. Exspecially when we take away all clan techs and KG:S what is left there? he couldnt even use all five elements how could he perform all techs?

Don't worry about it dude, I have already proven him wrong.

It doesn't matter when the nickname is talking about. There is no point in Konoha's history where Hiruzen could have used all of the jutsu in it.

 

[Owarij]

Don't worry about it dude, I have already proven him wrong.

It doesn't matter when the nickname is talking about. There is no point in Konoha's history where Hiruzen could have used all of the jutsu in it.

Lmao , i love how you give up and claim you've proven me wrong.. what have you proven me wrong about? Please i would love to know... Do you understand the meaning of existing? No? ok
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.
Synonyms:
existent - present - being - extant - in existence

There is no point in Konoha's history where Hiruzen could have used all of the jutsu in it.

There..... Now tell me why now, at the time he was appointed the title proffessor, couldnt he have known and been able to use all konoha jutsu? I'm waiting.... The confirmed clans existing were? senju,uchiha,sarutobi and akimichi at the time, and you should know hiden techs can be taught to anyone.. at one point in konoha history, all the clans decided to keep them to their clan members only ..... So please.. i want to know how could he not know ?

Now all you're doing is taking the defensive role, and you are going to run away from the argument, your manga scan failed, [/COLOR]

Spoiler

Ok I am going to post the manga proof that will make you both look like complete aholes for insulting me when I am right.

To @HereticPassage, Your idiotic comment that manga>anything I say is ridiculous. If I were to make things up then yes the manga takes precedence, but what if the manga contradicts the manga? The manga lies, it stretches the truth, it exaggerates. Don't you hate being wrong?

Here is the link to this manga page.

You must be registered for see links

I will get the picture in a second but Oro clearly says that Hiruzen was known to have been able to use every jutsu in Konoha. WHICH IS A LIE.

so deny it now, please. Go on, say something. Say anything. I'm right. I have facts, you have nothing except hype.

Oh god I love proving people like you wrong. It is the greatest feeling, it is like watching some retard play with something they love and then snatching it away from them.

Your above post failed horribly ^ , and now you proved me wrong? tsk
try again

Oh god I love proving people like you wrong. It is the greatest feeling, it is like watching some retard play with something they love and then snatching it away from them

Lol well you obviously fail at snatching toys away from retards o.0

 

[TheLaw]

Lmao , i love how you give up and claim you've proven me wrong.. what have you proven me wrong about? Please i would love to know... Do you understand the meaning of existing? No? ok
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.
Synonyms:
existent - present - being - extant - in existence

There..... Now tell me why now, at the time he was appointed the title proffessor, couldnt he have known and been able to use all konoha jutsu? I'm waiting.... The confirmed clans existing were? senju,uchiha,sarutobi and akimichi at the time, and you should know hiden techs can be taught to anyone.. at one point in konoha history, all the clans decided to keep them to their clan members only ..... So please.. i want to know how could he not know ?

Cause he had only 2 elements and you need 5 to perform all techs?

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Lmao , i love how you give up and claim you've proven me wrong.. what have you proven me wrong about? Please i would love to know... Do you understand the meaning of existing? No? ok
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.
Synonyms:
existent - present - being - extant - in existence

There..... Now tell me why now, at the time he was appointed the title proffessor, couldnt he have known and been able to use all konoha jutsu? I'm waiting.... The confirmed clans existing were? senju,uchiha,sarutobi and akimichi at the time, and you should know hiden techs can be taught to anyone.. at one point in konoha history, all the clans decided to keep them to their clan members only ..... So please.. i want to know how could he not know ?

Well first off I don't think Sarutobi is a clan, and the Uchiha are a clan known for KG. SO anything using the sharingan is not able to be used by Hiruzen.

Let me see here. He isn't able to use any sharingan jutsus like the genjutsu that all sharingan users are capable of. Nor is he able to use anything which Madara was able to do. Who was still alive at that point, and helped found Konoha, although he had defected.

But anyway let me get this straight. You think that when Hiruzen became Hokage there were only four clans and that Hiruzen knew all of their special abilities, including being able to use the sharingan. Well alrighty then, you've got me sir. I mean I don't know how we all missed it before, Sarutobi is actually just a pseudonym for Uchiha-Akimichi-Senju-Sarutobi. My bad props to you for figuring out that Hiruzen was actually descended from every single clan and is the ultimate lord of the Naruto universe.

 

[jet07]

With the entire theme of this manga being that the youth surpass their predecessor it baffles me to no end why anyone would dare to post a question about which old fart could or could not defeat their mentor....I mean really...C'MON MAN

 

[jet07]

trolls

 

[ItachiTAS]

Lmao , i love how you give up and claim you've proven me wrong.. what have you proven me wrong about? Please i would love to know... Do you understand the meaning of existing? No? ok
Adjective:
In existence or operation at the time under consideration; current.
Synonyms:
existent - present - being - extant - in existence


There..... Now tell me why now, at the time he was appointed the title proffessor, couldnt he have known and been able to use all konoha jutsu? I'm waiting.... The confirmed clans existing were? senju,uchiha,sarutobi and akimichi at the time, and you should know hiden techs can be taught to anyone.. at one point in konoha history, all the clans decided to keep them to their clan members only ..... So please.. i want to know how could he not know ?

Now all you're doing is taking the defensive role, and you are going to run away from the argument, your manga scan failed, [/COLOR]

Spoiler

Ok I am going to post the manga proof that will make you both look like complete aholes for insulting me when I am right.

To @HereticPassage, Your idiotic comment that manga>anything I say is ridiculous. If I were to make things up then yes the manga takes precedence, but what if the manga contradicts the manga? The manga lies, it stretches the truth, it exaggerates. Don't you hate being wrong?

Here is the link to this manga page.

You must be registered for see links

I will get the picture in a second but Oro clearly says that Hiruzen was known to have been able to use every jutsu in Konoha. WHICH IS A LIE.

so deny it now, please. Go on, say something. Say anything. I'm right. I have facts, you have nothing except hype.

Oh god I love proving people like you wrong. It is the greatest feeling, it is like watching some retard play with something they love and then snatching it away from them.

Your above post failed horribly ^ , and now you proved me wrong? tsk
try again


Lol well you obviously fail at snatching toys away from retards o.0

well,i agree with you to some extent.existing there meant konoha's signature techniques.plus one thing we are forgetting.manga is originally in japanese and you CANNOT find word to word matches of jap and english.hence this case.

 

[Owarij]

Cause he had only 2 elements and you need 5 to perform all techs?

We've only seen 2 of his elements, kakashi said most jounins know 2... Hashirama Knew 3, oonoki 4...It's obvious skilled ninja/kage can go up to 3-4, And also that could have been more than enough, as i said konoha was small and just formedl, most uchiha know only fire, Other ninjas don't even have/use elements(akimichi etc) ...., so exclude ninjas with that, Hiruzen has shown fire and earth.... So he just about covered all the techs uchiha would use...It boils down to a simple matter of kishi showing us what else he can do....

So yea. this entire argument was made from itachi namikaze's post about what?
Hypebole statements in the manga, and you are yet to show me one..