hiruzen sarutobi vs minato namikize

[Owarij]

Manga > Anything you say

EXACTLY

what this kid doesn't undestand is that if bee says shishui was the strongest genjutsu user of the uchiha... he was


If Kabuto, while with oro said Hiruzen was the strongest Kage he was....

If chiyo says Third kazekage was the strongest kazekage he was...

Don't contradict things kishi wrote for a reason, unless the person saying them has a good reasoning for lieng.

If orochimaru says Itachi is stronger He IS, ( Well we all knew that xD)

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When that was said in part 1 , we didnt even see them fight..... Did orochimaru turn out to be stronger than itachi? NO, he didnt .... Itachi was stronger.. just like it said in the manga

untill it's proven that iruka was hiruzen's buttbudy lover , so he was being bias about his lover's power.......

His statement will hold...

 

[TheLaw]

just saying that alone shows me how stuid you are indeed.:shrug:

There aint anything stupid about arguing, its good training for your brains. The subject doesnt even matter.

 

[Uchihas with Big Guns]

It's completly unfair to judge something that hasn't been seen yet. You can't give Hiruzen the win in his prime just becaue he was said to be God of Shinobi or the strongest Hokage. What are the feats?

Before anybody brings the SO6P in here to try to bs my logic, we have feats by him told to us. Now if we were told that Hiruzen defeated an ass load of shinobi with one hand or had did some really increadible techniques or feats in his youth we could make more of a debate. However, seeing as the details surrounding Hiruzen are very vauge, we can't. He was said to be so powerful that he was called God of Shinobi...alright, what did he do?

Iwa shinobi were given flee on sight orders with Minato why? Because Ftg gave him the ability to teleport through the battle feild instantaniously and kill several shinobi in seconds. We've seen this, the shinobi he killed on Kakashi's behalf even stated why he understood the flee on sight orders.

Saying Hiruzen in his prime would defeat Minato, when no feats have been given to demonstrate why Hiruzen was praised so heavily is bs.

I'm not saying Hiruzen couldn't defeat Minato, I'm just tired of the arguments of Hiruzen in his prime would defeat Minato. If you had my US history teacher, she would fail you and beat you with a baseball bat....

I believe that all the Hokage are equal and have just as much a chance to beat the others...in this case though I'm going with Minato just to piss off people who are voting for Hiruzen on the sole argument that "in his prime he was the strongest Hokage"

Also strongest doesn't mean best or most skilled.

I just got back from being banned so ima take it easy on u...
Tsunade is credited for being the reason kohona won the 2nd war did u know that? The members of uchiha clan was said to make opponent flee instead of facing them 1 on 1 did u know that? Point is that he isn't the greatest war hero or the only shinobi feared by other villages...

Now sarutobi was promoted to hokage mid war mid war get it ? That's his feat...

Now 4 dat idiot that wanted to know how he can beat minato, knowing all jutsu in the village gives him the knowledge to counter them (look at oro fight) based on minato fans its can't kill what u can't touch well it goes the same way for minato mud walls mud clones shadow clones replacement jutsu shadow shuriken all are easy counters for ftg (which is just a ****in reverse summon something the 4th didn't create). Who said the 4th was better at seals? U dont know dat what a asinine statement

 

[Owarij]

I just got back from being banned so ima take it easy on u...
Tsunade is credited for being the reason kohona won the 2nd war did u know that? The members of uchiha clan was said to make opponent flee instead of facing them 1 on 1 did u know that? Point is that he isn't the greatest war hero or the only shinobi feared by other villages...

Now sarutobi was promoted to hokage mid war mid war get it ? That's his feat...

Now 4 dat idiot that wanted to know how he can beat minato, knowing all jutsu in the village gives him the knowledge to counter them (look at oro fight) based on minato fans its can't kill what u can't touch well it goes the same way for minato mud walls mud clones shadow clones replacement jutsu shadow shuriken all are easy counters for ftg (which is just a ****in reverse summon something the 4th didn't create). Who said the 4th was better at seals? U dont know dat what a asinine statement

Lovely my friend absolutely lovely, at least you understand why he was called the professor.... You need to throw kunai or put a seal on the person, to do ftg...
And as itachi showed, A good ninja wouldnt even let 1 kunai get near him

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Hiruzen knows all about ftg

 

[The Eye]

minato was the boss in seals thanks to his uzamki wife, and the 3rd used the 4th seal the death god you thought the third invented that? but if the third knew that i wonder what else he knew. obviously not ftg as he would have used his strongest jutsu. but then i cant make a good argument because he fought his student not another shinobi.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Spoiler

EXACTLY

what this kid doesn't undestand is that if bee says shishui was the strongest genjutsu user of the uchiha... he was


If Kabuto, while with oro said Hiruzen was the strongest Kage he was....

If chiyo says Third kazekage was the strongest kazekage he was...

Don't contradict things kishi wrote for a reason, unless the person saying them has a good reasoning for lieng.

If orochimaru says Itachi is stronger He IS, ( Well we all knew that xD)

You must be registered for see images

When that was said in part 1 , we didnt even see them fight..... Did orochimaru turn out to be stronger than itachi? NO, he didnt .... Itachi was stronger.. just like it said in the manga

untill it's proven that iruka was hiruzen's buttbudy lover , so he was being bias about his lover's power.......

His statement will hold...

Ok I am going to post the manga proof that will make you both look like complete aholes for insulting me when I am right.

To @HereticPassage, Your idiotic comment that manga>anything I say is ridiculous. If I were to make things up then yes the manga takes precedence, but what if the manga contradicts the manga? The manga lies, it stretches the truth, it exaggerates. Don't you hate being wrong?

Here is the link to this manga page.

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I will get the picture in a second but Oro clearly says that Hiruzen was known to have been able to use every jutsu in Konoha. WHICH IS A LIE.

so deny it now, please. Go on, say something. Say anything. I'm right. I have facts, you have nothing except hype.

Oh god I love proving people like you wrong. It is the greatest feeling, it is like watching some retard play with something they love and then snatching it away from them.

 

[Blaze Release]

Ive already argued alot on this thread and tbh we reached a verdict that, if sarutobi wasnt in his prime minato should take this. If Sarutobi was in his prime we dont know. Simple because we dont know what his prime was like, although it was hinted by both iruka and oro that he was special. Even enma called him pathetic and even so he didnt do to bad in his last fight.

Fact is we havent seen enough of both characters to come up with a reasonable verdict

 

[TheLaw]

Ive already argued alot on this thread and tbh we reached a verdict that, if sarutobi wasnt in his prime minato should take this. If Sarutobi was in his prime we dont know. Simple because we dont know what his prime was like, although it was hinted by both iruka and oro that he was special. Even enma called him pathetic and even so he didnt do to bad in his last fight.

Fact is we havent seen enough of both characters to come up with a reasonable verdict

Yeah indeed that is true, and even database cannot be used cause highest score is 5 and it clearly gives 5 to ppl, who aint even half as good as the best who got 5 too. That kind of destroys the theory u can just count points and decide who wons.

 

[GofOfNothing]

i thought hiruzen was given the name god of shinobi (no im not kidding)
because he was the strongest kage konoha ever had

 

[TheLaw]

i thought hiruzen was given the name god of shinobi (no im not kidding)
because he was the strongest kage konoha ever had

It wasnt given cause he was the strongest kage konoha had, how could anybody know whos the best cause they never fought each other, u cant know unless the gap in power is so big that its certain, wich it isnt. Secondly even if it was then, Minato was too young to be counted in, he couldve surpassed him.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

My post above should make everyone disregard nicknames and hype from the manga. The only thing that we can go on is what has actually been seen.

Hype means nothing. Manga characters lie, they exaggerate, things are written there that aren't true.

My example up above is a perfect example of that as it is related to Hiruzen. Until we have seen anything from Hiruzen we can't judge, but based off of what we have seen Hiruzen couldn't win this.

 

[ItachiTAS]

Minato would smash him to bits.
With minato's speed,i doubt if he'd be able to touch him in the first place.somebody who got pissed by orichimaru can't take on "the most gifted ninja",all by himself.i don't know what he was like in his prime but minato would trash him once he'd be able to tag him.(which would happen pretty soon,i guess.thanks to FTG and STB.)

 

[Gatsuuga]

I have to say I only read the first page but good on you NB. I thought this was going to be a 'minato wins easy' spam fest. Kishimoto has stated that the 3rd was the strongest hokage - sooooo that means hiruzen wins

Minato would smash him to bits.
With minato's speed,i doubt if he'd be able to touch him in the first place.somebody who got pissed by orichimaru can't take on "the most gifted ninja",all by himself.i don't know what he was like in his prime but minato would trash him once he'd be able to tag him.(which would happen pretty soon,i guess.thanks to FTG and STB.)

Minato's speed means nothing unless the seal for his technique is on or near the enemy - seeing as how the 3rd knew all about ftg I dont think he would give minato the opening to get the seal close to him. And if you need an explaination of how he could do this see Owarij's post with the picture

 

[Uchihas with Big Guns]

Lovely my friend absolutely lovely, at least you understand why he was called the professor.... You need to throw kunai or put a seal on the person, to do ftg...
And as itachi showed, A good ninja wouldnt even let 1 kunai get near him

You must be registered for see images

Hiruzen knows all about ftg

Thanx man your one of the few people on here that have intelligent and all around good post I can mess with u (pause/ no homo) but I enjoy all your post... 2 times for u respect hommie

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

I have to say I only read the first page but good on you NB. I thought this was going to be a 'minato wins easy' spam fest. Kishimoto has stated that the 3rd was the strongest hokage - sooooo that means hiruzen wins

Minato's speed means nothing unless the seal for his technique is on or near the enemy - seeing as how the 3rd knew all about ftg I dont think he would give minato the opening to get the seal close to him

Damnit does no one read? Manga hype is ridiculous. Kishi never said that Hiruzen was the strongest hokage. Not once. Iruka said it. and my earlier post proves beyond a doubt that the manga exaggerates. Manga characters lie, they exaggerate, and quite often they are just wrong. Also Kishi contradicts himself like nobody's business. I can show you tons of places where the manga contradicts itself. But everyone seems to forget that when it comes to Hiruzen and his nicknames.

By the way Minato was extremely fast even without FTG. You should probably read the Kakashi Gaiden, or the fight between Minato and A and Bee again.

 

[Owarij]

Ok I am going to post the manga proof that will make you both look like complete aholes for insulting me when I am right.

To @HereticPassage, Your idiotic comment that manga>anything I say is ridiculous. If I were to make things up then yes the manga takes precedence, but what if the manga contradicts the manga? The manga lies, it stretches the truth, it exaggerates. Don't you hate being wrong?

Here is the link to this manga page.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

I will get the picture in a second but Oro clearly says that Hiruzen was known to have been able to use every jutsu in Konoha. WHICH IS A LIE.

so deny it now, please. Go on, say something. Say anything. I'm right. I have facts, you have nothing except hype.

Oh god I love proving people like you wrong. It is the greatest feeling, it is like watching some retard play with something they love and then snatching it away from them.

I'm inclined to believe Oro because....
1. Hiruzen was his teacher. He knows him well.
2. The statement is constructed as a fact rather than an opinion or heresay .
3. The jutsu we have seen from Hiruzen have been diverse. No real common theme.
4. He doesn't have to actually know every jutsu but rather have the capability to perform them.
5. The statement can be interpreted as a generalization without losing its meaning. And if anything, I think that is how we are meant to interpret the statment

and besides

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Oro, was speaking in the past tense. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that Hiruzen knew and could perform all current jutsu inside Konoha.

"You're the one nicknamed Professor because you knew and could perform all existing Konoha jutsu..."

So, it was true that he did know and could perform all Konoha Jutsu, but that was as of the time he was nicknamed the Professor, not necessarily as of the Chuunin Exam arc, but as of the time he earned the nickname the Professor.

We know Nidaime made him hokage when he was still a kid, and back hen konoha had just been formed... all the clans and their hiden techs may have yet to join....

So yeah.... It is very possibly he could have performed every jutsu in konoha

 

[ItachiTAS]

Ok I am going to post the manga proof that will make you both look like complete aholes for insulting me when I am right.

To @HereticPassage, Your idiotic comment that manga>anything I say is ridiculous. If I were to make things up then yes the manga takes precedence, but what if the manga contradicts the manga? The manga lies, it stretches the truth, it exaggerates. Don't you hate being wrong?

Here is the link to this manga page.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see images

I will get the picture in a second but Oro clearly says that Hiruzen was known to have been able to use every jutsu in Konoha. WHICH IS A LIE.

so deny it now, please. Go on, say something. Say anything. I'm right. I have facts, you have nothing except hype.

Oh god I love proving people like you wrong. It is the greatest feeling, it is like watching some retard play with something they love and then snatching it away from them.

By saying" he can use any jutsu konoha ever had",it meant he was very strong and could use the jutsus KONOHA HAD BEEN RENOWN FOR.otherwise jutsus are individual assets.one cannot claim to have every jutsu.
And btw the real thing depends on HOW WE USE THE CHARACTER.in manga,the thing depends on WHAT IS THE SCRIPT.kishi cannot just kill gaara and others by another meteorite.it WILL NOT SUIT THE STORY.so he is bound by the script.

 

[TheLaw]

the 3rd was student of second but couldnt even use his s/t jutsu, how can u say he can use every jutsu in konoha?

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

I'm inclined to believe Oro because....
1. Hiruzen was his teacher. He knows him well.
2. The statement is constructed as a fact rather than an opinion or heresay .
3. The jutsu we have seen from Hiruzen have been diverse. No real common theme.
4. He doesn't have to actually know every jutsu but rather have the capability to perform them.
5. The statement can be interpreted as a generalization without losing its meaning. And if anything, I think that is how we are meant to interpret the statment

and besides

You must be registered for see images

Oro, was speaking in the past tense. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that Hiruzen knew and could perform all current jutsu inside Konoha.

"You're the one nicknamed Professor because you knew and could perform all existing Konoha jutsu..."

So, it was true that he did know and could perform all Konoha Jutsu, but that was as of the time he was nicknamed the Professor, not necessarily as of the Chuunin Exam arc, but as of the time he earned the nickname the Professor.

We know Nidaime made him hokage when he was still a kid, and back hen konoha had just been formed... all the clans and their hiden techs may have yet to join....

So yeah.... It is very possibly he could have performed every jutsu in konoha

Except for the fact that they still had the sharingan. And Hashirama's KG. And there were some people from those clans in Hiruzen's former team.

So no matter at what point in time, Hiruzen would never have been able to perform EVERY jutsu in Konoha. Given the fact that Konoha is made up of mostly unique clan abilities and unique summons, what does that leave for Hiruzen? Elemental jutsu, and things like kagebunshin and sealing?

Please, please, please just accept the fact that the manga contradicts itself often. Don't blame me for how the manga was written. It isn't my fault that Kishi didn't have enough foresight to make sure that his info wouldn't contradict itself later.

 

[Gatsuuga]

Damnit does no one read? Manga hype is ridiculous. Kishi never said that Hiruzen was the strongest hokage. Not once. Iruka said it. and my earlier post proves beyond a doubt that the manga exaggerates. Manga characters lie, they exaggerate, and quite often they are just wrong. Also Kishi contradicts himself like nobody's business. I can show you tons of places where the manga contradicts itself. But everyone seems to forget that when it comes to Hiruzen and his nicknames.

By the way Minato was extremely fast even without FTG. You should probably read the Kakashi Gaiden, or the fight between Minato and A and Bee again.

Doesn't that mean kishi said it since he wrote the manga? I wouldnt mind seeing these contradictions just for interest sake.

I dont doubt that minato is fast without FTG, I just mean that his major advantage is reduced because the 3rd would know what he is trying to set up