hiruzen sarutobi vs minato namikize

[Itachi Namikaze]

Correction, Hizuzen wasn't in his prime when he fought the 9 tails, you can see in one panel that he fell to his knees from exhaustion. It was 13 years before he died so he was 59 at the time and was the main one fighting the fox, Minato even said he'll leave the fox to the 3rd, not i'll leave the fox to the 3rd, Anbu and jounins. Both deserve their respect for being strong kages.

You say that but it was all of those people fighting the fox. Many people died fighting it. Where do you think Iruka's parents died? Minato said that he would leave it to the third but it wasn't just Hiruzen fighting.

Hiruzen, all of his former teammates, and random jounin level ninja all fought the 9-tails.

Secondly I am pretty sure that Hiruzen was only 68 when he died which would make him mid fifties when he fought the 9-tails.

Which coincidentally is about the same age Jiraiya was when he fought Pain. And who do you think was stronger mid fifties? My vote goes to Jiraiya.

By the way I am not saying that he isn't strong, just that people give him way too much credit.

 

[Owarij]

You say that but it was all of those people fighting the fox. Many people died fighting it. Where do you think Iruka's parents died? Minato said that he would leave it to the third but it wasn't just Hiruzen fighting.

Hiruzen, all of his former teammates, and random jounin level ninja all fought the 9-tails.

Secondly I am pretty sure that Hiruzen was only 68 when he died which would make him mid fifties when he fought the 9-tails.

Which coincidentally is about the same age Jiraiya was when he fought Pain. And who do you think was stronger mid fifties? My vote goes to Jiraiya.

By the way I am not saying that he isn't strong, just that people give him way too much credit.

Untill kishi shows us what he really could do ... the statements kishi wrote In His manga... and put in HIS databooks stand

Kabuto-Hiruzen was the strongest kage
Iruka-Strongest hokage
and finally -God of shinobi

All made it into the factual databook.... the thing that is lunacy is to contradict those statements, why would kishi put false statements into his databook? No minato was not the strongest hokage.... You fail to realize kishi writes the words that comes out each characters mouth... and if he made kabuto say hiruzen was the strongest kage in his time

Hiruzen is stronger than oonoki, yagura, third raikage, fourth kazekage....
No questions asked.... Kabuto said it in front of orochimaru , and orochimaru did not argue that it wasn't true....

By your logic, Chiyo saying that the third kazekage was the strongest kazekage with the deadliest weapon of the sand village, holds nothing? and gaara can beat him? NO it doesn't work like that.... kishi makes these statements for a reason.... If The Third was the strongest kazekage, and at that time gaara was already kazekage, that means Third kazekage > Current Gaara....

Yes in time gaara may just surpass the third and become the strongest kazekage.. but from chiyo's statement, third>gaara.....

Hiruzen>Minato....
the only here lunacy here is to think otherwise just because we haven't seen all he could do

Killer bee stating shishui was the strongest genjutsu user of the uchiha to itachi and naruto means
Shishui uchiha WAS the strongest genjutsu user of the uchiha.... you don't contradict statements like that, without proper reasoning...

your reasoning is what? that you cant see a way he would get around ftg? well of course you can't see away seeing that you only saw the man use a few jutsu....

 

[Uchihas with Big Guns]

Old man sarutobi (at lease 20 years younger hands down) wins but good fight.... Even old sarutobi still keeps it close.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Untill kishi shows us what he really could do ... the statements kishi wrote In His manga... and put in HIS databooks stand

Kabuto-Hiruzen was the strongest kage
Iruka-Strongest hokage
and finally -God of shinobi

All made it into the factual databook.... the thing that is lunacy is to contradict those statements, why would kishi put false statements into his databook? No minato was not the strongest hokage.... You fail to realize kishi writes the words that comes out each characters mouth... and if he made kabuto say hiruzen was the strongest kage in his time

Hiruzen is stronger than oonoki, yagura, third raikage, fourth kazekage....
No questions asked.... Kabuto said it in front of orochimaru , and orochimaru did not argue that it wasn't true....

By your logic, Chiyo saying that the third kazekage was the strongest kazekage with the deadliest weapon of the sand village, holds nothing? and gaara can beat him? NO it doesn't work like that.... kishi makes these statements for a reason.... If The Third was the strongest kazekage, and at that time gaara was already kazekage, that means Third kazekage > Current Gaara....

Yes in time gaara may just surpass the third and become the strongest kazekage.. but from chiyo's statement, third>gaara.....

Hiruzen>Minato....
the only here lunacy here is to think otherwise just because we haven't seen all he could do

What you clearly don't understand is that the manga characters exaggerate all the time and don't know everything. Also they can outright lie. How many times has Kabuto or Tobi lied to someone? Quite often.

I'm not saying that it is a lie but it could be a gross exaggeration.

Let's take a look at abilities of the five kages of his time period. Not counting the 4th kazekage because Hiruzen wasn't in his "prime" then.

3rd Raikage - Impenetrable shield, sharpest sword (like a chidori to the max), insane amounts of chakra, extremely fast and strong. Fought 10,000 people for days.

3rd Mizukage - Unknown, but the second Mizukage was pretty damn awesome.

3rd Kazekage - Magnetism release, other than that unknown, said to be strongest Kazekage but what did Chiyo know about Gaara?

3rd Tsuchikage (Onoki) - older than Hiruzen ever was and is still super awesome, Dust release, can fly, can make other things weightless, all around awesome.

3rd Hokage (Hiruzen) - said to have known every jutsu in Konoha. Enma summons.
Do you think based off of what we have seen that Hiruzen could beat the third Raikage? Or Onoki?
From what we have seen he did not have very much chakra at all in his older days, unlike Onoki. And he couldn't use every jutsu in Konoha, that is another instance of hype that is just exaggeration. Could he use the rasengan? How about chidori? And FTG? the Gates, or the bugs, or any of the abilities of the Ino-Shika-Chou trio? How about eight trigrams? Did he have the Byakugan as well as the sharingan? Or the Inuzuka's dogs?

The answer is an emphatic NO. He could not do any of those things and yet the manga said that he had mastered all of the jutsus in Konoha. What does that mean then? Is it fact because it was written in the manga ? Or was it just hype?

So clearly my post has just nullified everything you have written. What is written in the manga is not fact unless it is an action taken or just a description of something.

 

[KillaCam]

-_- The Ignorance that some people post is astonishing

 

[Zaxelzero]

I feel that Hiruzen would be the victor,
It just depends on ftg since we haven't seen a whole lot of it.
If it trns out majorly op then it could be minato.
A fight i'd like to see 4 sure

 

[Owarij]

What you clearly don't understand is that the manga characters exaggerate all the time and don't know everything. Also they can outright lie. How many times has Kabuto or Tobi lied to someone? Quite often.

I'm not saying that it is a lie but it could be a gross exaggeration.

Let's take a look at abilities of the five kages of his time period. Not counting the 4th kazekage because Hiruzen wasn't in his "prime" then.

3rd Raikage - Impenetrable shield, sharpest sword (like a chidori to the max), insane amounts of chakra, extremely fast and strong. Fought 10,000 people for days.

3rd Mizukage - Unknown, but the second Mizukage was pretty damn awesome.

3rd Kazekage - Magnetism release, other than that unknown, said to be strongest Kazekage but what did Chiyo know about Gaara?

3rd Tsuchikage (Onoki) - older than Hiruzen ever was and is still super awesome, Dust release, can fly, can make other things weightless, all around awesome.

3rd Hokage (Hiruzen) - said to have known every jutsu in Konoha. Enma summons.
Do you think based off of what we have seen that Hiruzen could beat the third Raikage? Or Onoki?
From what we have seen he did not have very much chakra at all in his older days, unlike Onoki. And he couldn't use every jutsu in Konoha, that is another instance of hype that is just exaggeration. Could he use the rasengan? How about chidori? And FTG? the Gates, or the bugs, or any of the abilities of the Ino-Shika-Chou trio? How about eight trigrams? Did he have the Byakugan as well as the sharingan? Or the Inuzuka's dogs?

The answer is an emphatic NO. He could not do any of those things and yet the manga said that he had mastered all of the jutsus in Konoha. What does that mean then? Is it fact because it was written in the manga ? Or was it just hype?

So clearly my post has just nullified everything you have written. What is written in the manga is not fact unless it is an action taken or just a description of something.

Who has exaggerated abilities in the manga? i want a list.... Who said that someone was stronger, then it turned out that the person wasn't ...
The only person who lied, was Itachi saying him + kisame = Jiraya... and later on into the show it explained his reasoning for lieing..... so once again , I ask you... show who and prove that people exaggerate abilities

All you are is some sort of Hiruzen hater.... Did iruka have any reasoning to lie about the third's strength? Did kabuto and orochimaru when talking about the third have any reason to exaggerate?.... don't kid yourself....


Your post has nullified nothing... all you did was list what all the kages could do... urm thanks for that

But according to kabuto and oro
Hiruzen > All of themm





Wtf do you mean what does chiyo know about gaara? she knows who he is...that he's the son of the 4th... she knows oro killed the 4th.... All the sand villages would ofc know about their kazekage... what kind of ridiculous point is that?....

Would the leaf ninja not know that the 1st has moukouton? yes they did know , infact its in leaf text books, and other villagers know...


Did kumugakare ninjas not know about the thirds and the fourths abilities? ...... yes they did

Did the leaf ninja know about minato's ftg? yes they did know..... tsunade,kakashi etc....

What makes you think chiyo wouldnt know what her own kazekage could do?....

 

[Lord Painz]

So, am i missing something here?? You guys having a debate on 2 filler characters. Lol

 

[TheLaw]

Who has exaggerated abilities in the manga? i want a list.... Who said that someone was stronger, then it turned out that the person wasn't ...
The only person who lied, was Itachi saying him + kisame = Jiraya... and later on int he show it explained his reasoning for lieing..... so once again , I ask you... show who and prove that people exaggerate abilities

All you are is some sort of Hiruzen hater.... Did iruka have any reasoning to lie about the third's strength? Did kabuto and orochimaru when talking about the third have any reason to exaggerate?.... don't kid yourself....


Your post has nullified nothing... all you did was list what all the kages could do... urm thanks for that

But according to kabuto and oro
Hiruzen > All of themm





Wtf do you mean what does chiyo know about gaara? she knows who he is...that he's the son of the 4th... she knows oro killed the 4th.... All the sand villages would ofc know about their kazekage... what kind of ridiculous point is that?....

Would the leaf ninja not know that the 1st has moukouton? yes they did know , infact its in leaf text books, and other villagers know...

Did the leaf ninja know about minato's ftg? yes they did know..... tsunade,kakashi etc....

What makes you think chiyo wouldnt know what her own kazekage could do?....

I really would like to see what Hiruzen could do to third raikage? make him hurt him self, like naruto did? or would he be dead already when he finds that out.

 

[arv993]

why don't ppl understand that this is a fight that cannot be determined. we have lil to no info on hiruzen in his prime. So how can ppl say that prime hiruzen>minato they cannot justify it by only saying he is the god of shinobi. People cannot say minato>hiruzen just due to the lack of feats from hiruzen, kishi might introduce them or not but has provided some hype. We cannot judge a battle without igood amount of info on both characters. All we can do is speculate no more than that.

 

[Lord Painz]

why don't ppl understand that this is a fight that cannot be determined. we have lil to no info on hiruzen in his prime. So how can ppl say that prime hiruzen>minato they cannot justify it by only saying he is the god of shinobi. People cannot say minato>hiruzen just due to the lack of feats from hiruzen, kishi might introduce them or not but has provided some hype. We cannot judge a battle without igood amount of info on both characters. All we can do is speculate no more than that.

LOL LET ME SAY AGAIN THERE HAVING A DEBATE ON 2 FILLER CHARACTERS LOL. at least when me and you debate on itachi and pain we had pictures and info on the characters too prove a point, this thread this pointless haha

 

[arv993]

LOL LET ME SAY AGAIN THERE HAVING A DEBATE ON 2 FILLER CHARACTERS LOL. at least when me and you debate on itachi and pain we had pictures and info on the characters too prove a point, this thread this pointless haha

yes ur right it is a pointless debate but why are u using the word "filller" for minato and hiruzen. they are both pretty important to the story.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Who has exaggerated abilities in the manga? i want a list.... Who said that someone was stronger, then it turned out that the person wasn't ...
The only person who lied, was Itachi saying him + kisame = Jiraya... and later on int he show it explained his reasoning for lieing..... so once again , I ask you... show who and prove that people exaggerate abilities

All you are is some sort of Hiruzen hater.... Did iruka have any reasoning to lie about the third's strength? Did kabuto and orochimaru when talking about the third have any reason to exaggerate?.... don't kid yourself....


Your post has nullified nothing... all you did was list what all the kages could do... urm thanks for that

But according to kabuto and oro
Hiruzen > All of themm





Wtf do you mean what does chiyo know about gaara? she knows who he is...that he's the son of the 4th... she knows oro killed the 4th.... All the sand villages would ofc know about their kazekage... what kind of ridiculous point is that?....

Would the leaf ninja not know that the 1st has moukouton? yes they did know , infact its in leaf text books, and other villagers know...

Did the leaf ninja know about minato's ftg? yes they did know..... tsunade,kakashi etc....

What makes you think chiyo wouldnt know what her own kazekage could do?....

You didn't respond at all to the part that really mattered. Nice , way to try and throw everybody off track with the font color that no one can see and hope that they just don't read it because it actually doesn't argue against my post at all.


You completely ignored the part where I proved that the manga hypes people up and says things that aren't true.

Try and read this slowly so you can understand it.

"Hiruzen was called the Professor for having mastered every jutsu in Konoha."
Direct manga quote said by Orochimaru. Do you deny this? NO you can't.

List of abilities that Hiruzen can't possibly have had:
Toad summons, slug summons, snake summons, and the jutsus that go along with it like toad gourd prison.
the Inuzuka's dogs and the jutsus with it.
Shino's bug jutsus.
anything requiring a Byakugan. Eight trigrams and gentle fist.
The Nara clan's shadow jutsus.
The Yamanaka clans mind control jutsus.
chidori or raikiri (requires a sharingan, said by the manga)
FTG
anything requiring a sharingan.
the Akimichi family enlargement jutsus, and butterfly mode.
etc.

So clearly I have just proven wrong a statement made by the manga. But wait I thought it was a fact? So who is right? Is the manga right when it says stuff about KG or summons being unique due to blood contracts? Or the description of chidori when it is said to require the sharingan? Or is the manga right when it says the Hiruzen mastered all of Konoha's jutsus? Which is it? Because you said that the manga is always right and what it says is always true.

That is how you find evidence and destroy a person's argument. There are more times this has happened in the manga but I think this case if especially important since it goes along with Hiruzen.

Either way, I want you to tell me that I'm wrong. Go ahead let me hear it. Say something, please!

 

[TheLaw]

LOL LET ME SAY AGAIN THERE HAVING A DEBATE ON 2 FILLER CHARACTERS LOL. at least when me and you debate on itachi and pain we had pictures and info on the characters too prove a point, this thread this pointless haha

What does it matter what u argue about, the main thing is u get to argue =)

 

[Lord Painz]

yes ur right it is a pointless debate but why are u using the word "filller" for minato and hiruzen. they are both pretty important to the story.

just a catchy word xd sound good to say

 

[Owarij]

You didn't respond at all to the part that really mattered. Nice , way to try and throw everybody off track with the font color that no one can see and hope that they just don't read it because it actually doesn't argue against my post at all.


You completely ignored the part where I proved that the manga hypes people up and says things that aren't true.

Try and read this slowly so you can understand it.

"Hiruzen was called the Professor for having mastered every jutsu in Konoha."
Direct manga quote said by Orochimaru. Do you deny this? NO you can't.

List of abilities that Hiruzen can't possibly have had:
Toad summons, slug summons, snake summons, and the jutsus that go along with it like toad gourd prison.
the Inuzuka's dogs and the jutsus with it.
Shino's bug jutsus.
anything requiring a Byakugan. Eight trigrams and gentle fist.
The Nara clan's shadow jutsus.
The Yamanaka clans mind control jutsus.
chidori or raikiri (requires a sharingan, said by the manga)
FTG
anything requiring a sharingan.
the Akimichi family enlargement jutsus, and butterfly mode.
etc.

So clearly I have just proven wrong a statement made by the manga. But wait I thought it was a fact? So who is right? Is the manga right when it says stuff about KG or summons being unique due to blood contracts? Or the description of chidori when it is said to require the sharingan? Or is the manga right when it says the Hiruzen mastered all of Konoha's jutsus? Which is it? Because you said that the manga is always right and what it says is always true.

That is how you find evidence and destroy a person's argument. There are more times this has happened in the manga but I think this case if especially important since it goes along with Hiruzen.

Either way, I want you to tell me that I'm wrong. Go ahead let me hear it. Say something, please!

Urm i'm going to stop you right then and there.... It never said hiruzen mastered every technique in Konoha... It said he had known a vast knowledge of techniques within konoha..
So your point = failure

Once again i reiterate...

Don't act all cocky like you know anything when you're dishing out wrong statements from the manga.... At least check wikia and bring some better arguments to the table

You must be registered for see links

Try again

 

[Lord Painz]

What does it matter what u argue about, the main thing is u get to argue =)

just saying that alone shows me how stuid you are indeed.:shrug:

 

[Selendrile]

My boy Hiruzen takes this.

 

[fanzao]

hiruzen will trash minato
________________________________

You must be registered for see links

 

[Selendrile]

You didn't respond at all to the part that really mattered. Nice , way to try and throw everybody off track with the font color that no one can see and hope that they just don't read it because it actually doesn't argue against my post at all.


You completely ignored the part where I proved that the manga hypes people up and says things that aren't true.

Try and read this slowly so you can understand it.

"Hiruzen was called the Professor for having mastered every jutsu in Konoha."
Direct manga quote said by Orochimaru. Do you deny this? NO you can't.

List of abilities that Hiruzen can't possibly have had:
Toad summons, slug summons, snake summons, and the jutsus that go along with it like toad gourd prison.
the Inuzuka's dogs and the jutsus with it.
Shino's bug jutsus.
anything requiring a Byakugan. Eight trigrams and gentle fist.
The Nara clan's shadow jutsus.
The Yamanaka clans mind control jutsus.
chidori or raikiri (requires a sharingan, said by the manga)
FTG
anything requiring a sharingan.
the Akimichi family enlargement jutsus, and butterfly mode.
etc.

So clearly I have just proven wrong a statement made by the manga. But wait I thought it was a fact? So who is right? Is the manga right when it says stuff about KG or summons being unique due to blood contracts? Or the description of chidori when it is said to require the sharingan? Or is the manga right when it says the Hiruzen mastered all of Konoha's jutsus? Which is it? Because you said that the manga is always right and what it says is always true.

That is how you find evidence and destroy a person's argument. There are more times this has happened in the manga but I think this case if especially important since it goes along with Hiruzen.

Either way, I want you to tell me that I'm wrong. Go ahead let me hear it. Say something, please!

Manga > Anything you say