hiruzen is not the strongest hokage... proof

[Sasuke Teen]

dont tell me he defeated the first and second hokage and gave a fair fight to oru... i have proof that both of the hokages wasnt in full power...

so remember that fight when oru summong both of the hokages? he used some king of paper tag that blind their memories and make them into a killing machines...

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well so far so good but in the war arc i notice something that got my attention:

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kabuto said that his paper tag isnt blind deidara memory because he didnt got his "art"
from that sentence we learn that in order to use edo tensei right the user need to know the body jutsus in order for him (the user) to be able to use them by him self (when i say he need to know the jutsu i mean hund sines and stuff). you must agree with me that oru (who chose to controll them 100%) didnt know all of the first hokage arsenal jutsus (the edo tensei body get all of the original body power yet the user of this jutsu dont have/cant use them 100% this is y the third raikage didnt used black lighting in his battle...). oruchimaru perfected this jutsu but didnt mastered it he didnt knew how to use all of the edo tensei body power without giving the edo body his memory that was kabuto mistake too: he chose to give the edo bodies their memory in order for them to be able to use their maximum powers (well almost their maximum power he did controlled them a bit.) which allow to itachi and madara to escape the jutsu. so agree with me that both of the hokages oru summong wasnt at thir full power because oru was the one controlling them.

Even though their bodies were not in their control they put up a fierce battle and as the anbu's were saying they were using their strongest jutsus.but the third hokage was fighting them equally and countering their every attack.He was fighting both kages at the same time which were considered to be the best in the land of fire.one more reason was that Hiruzen was old,he didn't had the chakra reserves he once had and as said by orochimaru he was the shinobi who mastered all jutsus of the konoha.So,he was a powerful kage but his age and love for his student came in his way.even when he was using the reaper death seal and couldn't took out the soul of orochimaru.Orochimaru praised that if hiruzen were 10 years younger he would have defeated orochimaru.

 

[minatonarut0]

strongest kage ever minato
deal with it

 

[Khallil]

Senju, Tobirama and Minato are way stronger than hiruzen

 

[King Of Pop]

I guess the extra text someone used to explain the obvious, to the slow ones out there, tipped them off.

This is not a detailed report, on the contrary.It's a manga. Everyone knows what is being referred to; even if someone wanted to be a smart ass about it I could then just give the exact page number later on. Then that person would not only look bad for attacking something completely irrelevant, it’d also expose his/her argument or lack thereof.

Though I appreciate the intention behind your actions, I really do, it’s still poor reasoning (nothing to do with credibility). What you did was pedantic, needless, distracting, etc., but, what's done is done. No need to argue semantics let’s all return to the subject at hand.

Btw, there should be only one side. You have to be objective regardless of how your favorite characters have been portrayed by the author.In this case Hiruzen is called the strongest Hokage.It shouldn't matter whether another Kage is looking more impressive or not.

Lolllll at ur sig someone actually said that. Wow wat is Nb turnin into

 

[lilshell43]

Hiruzen is not the strongest hokage but he beats Hashirama in that match up.

 

[EnvyMyApex]

I haven't been here in a while. Nice to see you guys are still arguing about the same shit.

*Just logged in to say this*

 

[CDT23]

true but then his jutsu would have backed fired on him like how Kabutos did... his own resurrection, Itachi took him out. the second hokage the creater of the jutsu would have easily pulled both him and the first out of Edo's control and the tables would have turned. Oro will always be smarter than Kabuto.

 

[Carlhens]

Even the fanboys kno dat already

 

[Gokillerz]

we need more proof like Dr.Proof

 

[Vexorian]

Reality of the matter is Hiruzen's feats match all of the other Hokage. At 60-65 years of age he pitted himself up against one of the Legendary Sannin, as well as his former teachers, Shodaime/Nidaime Hokage. Sealed both of them--Even if they didn't have their minds, their abilities were intact, and they couldn't be killed by conventional means. Between that, and Orochimaru having perfected Edo Tensei to its highest level at that time, and Orochimaru's intelligence and skill factored into the equation largely counterbalances it, if not completely.

Minato succeeded in stopping Obito, defended the village from Kurama, yet had to sacrifice both himself and Kushina to do so. Incredible feats just as Hiruzen had his own.

Nidaime Hokage is the one that has the worst feats out of the three, yet still not bad. Not only did he name Hiruzen as Sandaime Hokage, but he created Edo Tensei, and took on Kumo's Master Bounty Hunters + Kinkaku/Ginkaku.

I don't really need to point out Shodaime's feats, as they're impressive too. Defeated EMS Madara + Kyuubi and tamed the Bijuu. Impressive, but Shodaime is the one that had the best skillset initially, Mokuton.

All are comparable, but only one was given the title "Strongest Hokage". That was Hiruzen. ABC logic doesn't apply here. While I support that a Prime Hiruzen can defeat Minato, I do in no way support that because he was given the title "Strongest" he is able to deal with Bijuu in an effective manner. Nor do I support that he could defeat Obito, or Madara, or Nagato, or even Itachi. Everybody has their matchups. It's fairly rare that fights are 1v1 anyways.

 

[KING KISAME]

I didn't think he was that good even b4 your thread

 

[bukog]

we know

 

[bukog]

of course

 

[TrollingSage]

Oh, the irony.

You should have no problem disproving the notion that Hiruzen was known as the strongest Hokage, right? I mean, you said yourself you had overwhelming evidence to support your case, which means producing a scan shouldn’t be too troubling. I’m sure you know how fiction works…

It’s canon that Hiruzen was known as the strongest Hokage. No speculation there, it’s actually written in both the databooks and the manga (we even saw him defeat them in battle). Last I checked there are no expiration dates on statements made in those, unless, of course, the author retconned them. Since you believe he did retcon Hiruzen’s strenght- and the burden of proof is on you- I expect something that contradicts it:

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I have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time

First of all, Hashirama and Tobirama were also called the best shinobi.

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Secondly, Kishi's statement about Hiruzen being the strongest isn't in the 3rd databook. I wonder why
Lastly, the databook doesnt outright say Hiruzen is the strongest. It says he was praised as or hailed as. Meaning it was an opinion amongst the people of Konoha.

 

[thegame]

Well edo tensei in general is very weird. I mean how the **** did Kabuto get any of Deidaras DNA? The man was blown to bits? U_U

On topic, Hiruzen lost the fight, so what is your point? The fact that he was able to seal them doesn't mean he beats them in a 1 vs 1, since it would still just be a draw. So it doesn't make Hiruzen stronger than Hashirama, there is no evidence suggesting that. Nor does it make them equal. It's like saying Deidaras suicide bomb can kill most enemies, so he is equal to them, but he isn't cause resorting to jutsu that cost your life, means you aren't equal to them. It shows your skill in ninjutsu, to be able to take down a stronger opponent than yourself, but it doesn't make you equal to him. That said Hiruzen was truly strong, and he could probably take down most enemies in the narutoverse. His skill and expertise exceeds every other shinobi, but he has no unique powers, which is his disadvantage.

 

[thegame]

First of all, Hashirama and Tobirama were also called the best shinobi.

Secondly, Kishi's statement about Hiruzen being the strongest isn't in the 3rd databook. I wonder why
Lastly, the databook doesnt outright say Hiruzen is the strongest. It says he was praised as or hailed as. Meaning it was an opinion amongst the people of Konoha.

The 3rd book says Hiruzen was the most loved hokage ever. And that he was the most caring hokage. The reason he could sit as kage for so long, was mainly due to his popularity with the villagers.

What it says in the manga, if you try to interpret it correctly, isn't that Hiruzen was the strongest hokage of all time, but that he was the strongest kage at his time. This means he was stronger than the other kages. But strength isn't determined by who would win in a 1 vs 1, so we can easily believe Kishis words.

And as he says that shodai and nidaime were the strongest as well, it's just the same as above. the manga, nor the databooks, have no mention whatsoever about who was the stronger hokage, only that the hokage was said to be the strongest among the 5 kages

 

[saar0507]

1-It's obvious he wasn't the strongest
2- Learn to type proper English
3- There was no fuucking proof in this thread at all

Thread destroyed, have a nice day

1-no i just proof he wasnt the strongest cause the hokages was not at the best
2- im sorry for poor english im not from america and my country sucks.
3-shut up

 

[Vexorian]

Regardless of whether they were at their best, he wasn't either. He was a Sixty something leather bag weaving hand signs. Had pitifully low chakra levels, and his only redeeming quality was his summon. Sorry, with what he had he did better than anybody could have hoped. Give anybody else those stats and they get pwnt.

 

[mun]

Senju, Tobirama and Minato are way stronger than hiruzen

this

 

[Talal]

Same old topic over and over again. I'll just say what I usually say, the manga has many contradictions and vagueness's so it is tough to say for sure, however, since Hiruzen was said to be stronger in a direct comparison to the other kages that's what I believe. Even though it may seem like Kishi changed his mind, nothing proves that. So Hiruzen > Hashirama until proven otherwise.