hiruzen is not the strongest hokage... proof

[saar0507]

dont tell me he defeated the first and second hokage and gave a fair fight to oru... i have proof that both of the hokages wasnt in full power...

so remember that fight when oru summong both of the hokages? he used some king of paper tag that blind their memories and make them into a killing machines...

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well so far so good but in the war arc i notice something that got my attention:

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kabuto said that his paper tag isnt blind deidara memory because he didnt got his "art"
from that sentence we learn that in order to use edo tensei right the user need to know the body jutsus in order for him (the user) to be able to use them by him self (when i say he need to know the jutsu i mean hund sines and stuff). you must agree with me that oru (who chose to controll them 100%) didnt know all of the first hokage arsenal jutsus (the edo tensei body get all of the original body power yet the user of this jutsu dont have/cant use them 100% this is y the third raikage didnt used black lighting in his battle...). oruchimaru perfected this jutsu but didnt mastered it he didnt knew how to use all of the edo tensei body power without giving the edo body his memory that was kabuto mistake too: he chose to give the edo bodies their memory in order for them to be able to use their maximum powers (well almost their maximum power he did controlled them a bit.) which allow to itachi and madara to escape the jutsu. so agree with me that both of the hokages oru summong wasnt at thir full power because oru was the one controlling them.

 

[Invsblphntm]

There was no proof.


/thread

 

[Blaze Release]

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[KidGamer65]

I agree with your view of Hiruzen not being the strongest Hokage, but there was no proof at all.

Also Kishimoto clearly retconned Hiruzen being the strongest Hokage, since he was said to be the strongest in Databooks 1 and 2, but not 3. In three he was said to be the most loved Hokage or something like that.

BTW, this is more like a "Edo Hokages were not at full power" thread.

 

[Sir Blades]

oh my f*cking gosh. are people stupid. this thread has been made more than 500 times. obviously this far in the manga everybody that knows how to read and think know that hiruzen was not the strongest.

 

[Salad]

Stating the obvious?

 

[Owarij]

Well If Orochimaru didn't Fully Bind hashirama and tobirama

they would just use the seals to get out of it... just like Madara....

Tobirama created it..he knows the seals to get out... if Madara knows..Tobirama's bro most definitely knows as well

And we all know that completely controlling edos mean they wont be able to perform how they performed when alive...

It's also a possibility that the person using them may actually be able to make them perform better than they ever did in their life

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

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Yh but orochimaru was in full control of them so obviously they weren't at their full strength as ororchimaru did not know all the secrets and full arsenal of hashirama (As let's say madara would). Also he wouldn't of know how to of use his basic wood release as effect as hashirama.

The proof orochimaru was in FULL control is the second they attacked hiruzen, they would never do that so it is obvious orochimaru was in full control.

 

[Unbiased]

dont tell me he defeated the first and second hokage and gave a fair fight to oru... i have proof that both of the hokages wasnt in full power...

so remember that fight when oru summong both of the hokages? he used some king of paper tag that blind their memories and make them into a killing machines...

You must be registered for see links

well so far so good but in the war arc i notice something that got my attention:

You must be registered for see links

kabuto said that his paper tag isnt blind deidara memory because he didnt got his "art"
from that sentence we learn that in order to use edo tensei right the user need to know the body jutsus in order for him (the user) to be able to use them by him self (when i say he need to know the jutsu i mean hund sines and stuff). you must agree with me that oru (who chose to controll them 100%) didnt know all of the first hokage arsenal jutsus (the edo tensei body get all of the original body power yet the user of this jutsu dont have/cant use them 100% this is y the third raikage didnt used black lighting in his battle...). oruchimaru perfected this jutsu but didnt mastered it he didnt knew how to use all of the edo tensei body power without giving the edo body his memory that was kabuto mistake too: he chose to give the edo bodies their memory in order for them to be able to use their maximum powers (well almost their maximum power he did controlled them a bit.) which allow to itachi and madara to escape the jutsu. so agree with me that both of the hokages oru summong wasnt at thir full power because oru was the one controlling them.

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/thread Orochimaru knew all their techniques and perfected it according to the manga

 

[Form]

Hiruzen is disgustingly overrated.

 

[Zlad]

Ok then, go ahead and ignore what Kishi have said about Hiruzen. I don't like Hiruzen but what have been said is that he is the strongest.

It's like people don't wanna accept what the manga says, lmfao

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

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/thread

I believe they was complete and perfect but they was not in control of their bodies so they did whatever orochimaru wanted them to do and what he knew they could do.

So just by that they wasn't as strong as they original was in that fight.

 

[Hipster Madara]

I don't think this was needed as only delusional people will disagree. They won't change their minds so don't even try

 

[OnPoint]

The jutsu had been perfected, but yes, the Hokage were not being used to their full capacity. Their combat effectiveness would've increased had they retained their personalities and the ability to act autonomously.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Ok then, go ahead and ignore what Kishi have said about Hiruzen. I don't like Hiruzen but what have been said is that he is the strongest.

It's like people don't wanna accept what the manga says, lmfao

I seriously doubt hiruzen being up to the levels of hashirama and madara. Even up to nagato we can see people like oonoki, kakashi, minato is below them I don't see how this one man hiruzen who could do barely anything in front of the nine tails was above hashirama and madara, lets be realllll. Hiruzen is all hype from the villagers who admired him

 

[Unbiased]

I believe they was complete and perfect but they was not in control of their bodies so they did whatever orochimaru wanted them to do and what he knew they could do.

So just by that they wasn't as strong as they original was in that fight.

That doesn't make any sense. Regardless of if they are mindless zombies Edo tensei's have been shown to be devastatingly strong when they're not in control EX Nagato/3rd Raikage ect

 

[zesto]

doh only jackass would think that Hiruzen is the strongest.

He's the weakest

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[Chef Boy RD]

People state that Kishimoto made his characters say that Hiruzen was the strongest kage (but where's the proof?) but do they also forget that Kishimoto also made his characters state that Shodaime and Nidaime where hailed as the greatest ninjas in history?

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"They are the Hokage-Sama's who are both hailed as being the best shinobi..."

And then later Madara reiterates that no one was on Hashirama's tier, so we have evidence overriding any statement about Hiruzen being the strongest (which I've still yet to see... maybe I overlooked it?)

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

That doesn't make any sense. Regardless of if they are mindless zombies Edo tensei's have been shown to be devastatingly strong when they're not in control EX Nagato/3rd Raikage ect

That's according to the one who is controlling them. They can't just make them use techs they don't even know about, like how kabuto didn't know anything madara could do (well not everything but most) and also that he knew the seal to undo edo tensei

 

[Unbiased]

That's according to the one who is controlling them. They can't just make them use techs they don't even know about, like how kabuto didn't know anything madara could do (well not everything but most) and also that he knew the seal to undo edo tensei

The manga states they can use all their original techniques. It says nothing about the user having to know them as your stating. That is what I call making something up.

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