Hiruzen (god debate)

[Mizukage88]

lol Hashirama was not hyped by Kabuto - his chakra was, as would anybody with such pure senju chakra would be. Tsunade didn't hype him, please link if you can find any I don't recall her ever hyping in relation to other Kages. And we truly don't know if Tobi is in fact Madara himself so chea. Only reason Hash was typed by Madara was because he got owned whether or not it was on purpose is another discussion.

I think we can all agree that Oro is the smartest ninja in the series, so it wouldn't make sense for him to say such things without them being true, would just be bad writing.

There is also what Hiruzen actually did - take on Oro who is easily kage level, partial first and partial second all at the same time, at 69 HAH.

And if that isn't enough in an interview with

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in an issue of "Protoculture", Kishi stated he was the strongest of any Hokages yet, i.e. going with one of the theme of Naruto that the new generation > the old one, as well as the theme of "power breeds power" - meaning pretty much that power leads to power. The first and second lead to the third, who lead to the sannin, who lead to naruto, sasuke, ect ect ect.

Not a fanboy of Hiruzen. He was decent leader but a pushover and shouldn't have waited so long to choose another successor. But facts are facts =p, based solely on the facts I make my conclusion that he was the strongest of past hokages. You really can't argue with that.

I agree i just feel when people see op ninja in shippuen they totatly forget what has been stated in part one it's like dude why are you arguing with the guy who made naruto until he says other wise it stands

 

[Thewargoeson]

Orochimaru did not fully master Edo Tensei when he used it to fight Hiruzen. That means that anybody he would have awakened would not have been at their 100%. You see Kabuto? He fully mastered Edo Tensei. That's why Madara is much more powerful than when he was at his prime.



Read the manga. It's there.

i read the manga. it doesnt say it.
ik he didnt, but say they were both cut 50%? reasonable? put them together thts another kage level shinobi. so he still took on 2 kage levels.

lol Hashirama was not hyped by Kabuto - his chakra was, as would anybody with such pure senju chakra would be. Tsunade didn't hype him, please link if you can find any I don't recall her ever hyping in relation to other Kages. And we truly don't know if Tobi is in fact Madara himself so chea. Only reason Hash was typed by Madara was because he got owned whether or not it was on purpose is another discussion.

I think we can all agree that Oro is the smartest ninja in the series, so it wouldn't make sense for him to say such things without them being true, would just be bad writing.

There is also what Hiruzen actually did - take on Oro who is easily kage level, partial first and partial second all at the same time, at 69 HAH.

And if that isn't enough in an interview with

You must be registered for see links

in an issue of "Protoculture", Kishi stated he was the strongest of any Hokages yet, i.e. going with one of the theme of Naruto that the new generation > the old one, as well as the theme of "power breeds power" - meaning pretty much that power leads to power. The first and second lead to the third, who lead to the sannin, who lead to naruto, sasuke, ect ect ect.

Not a fanboy of Hiruzen. He was decent leader but a pushover and shouldn't have waited so long to choose another successor. But facts are facts =p, based solely on the facts I make my conclusion that he was the strongest of past hokages. You really can't argue with that.

agree with most

 

[Owarij]

lol Hashirama was not hyped by Kabuto - his chakra was, as would anybody with such pure senju chakra would be. Tsunade didn't hype him, please link if you can find any I don't recall her ever hyping in relation to other Kages. And we truly don't know if Tobi is in fact Madara himself so chea. Only reason Hash was typed by Madara was because he got owned whether or not it was on purpose is another discussion.

I think we can all agree that Oro is the smartest ninja in the series, so it wouldn't make sense for him to say such things without them being true, would just be bad writing.

There is also what Hiruzen actually did - take on Oro who is easily kage level, partial first and partial second all at the same time, at 69 HAH.

And if that isn't enough in an interview with

You must be registered for see links

in an issue of "Protoculture", Kishi stated he was the strongest of any Hokages yet, i.e. going with one of the theme of Naruto that the new generation > the old one, as well as the theme of "power breeds power" - meaning pretty much that power leads to power. The first and second lead to the third, who lead to the sannin, who lead to naruto, sasuke, ect ect ect.

Not a fanboy of Hiruzen. He was decent leader but a pushover and shouldn't have waited so long to choose another successor. But facts are facts =p, based solely on the facts I make my conclusion that he was the strongest of past hokages. You really can't argue with that.

You made 1 slight mistake

Hashirama and tobirama weren't half power.. They were full..

Orochimaru's edo tensei was PERFECTED.. as stated by kabutoo

the only reason they look weaker is the change from part 1 to part 2.. Things got different, oper..

while in part 1 , the fight between hiruzen and oro looked legendary.. when compared to part 2 fights, it's just meh...

As i've stated.. if kishi was to rewrite part 1, or rewrite that fight, It would Change ENTIRELY...

 

[Mizukage88]

You made 1 slight mistake

Hashirama and tobirama weren't half power.. They were full..

Orochimaru's edo tensei was PERFECTED.. as stated by kabutoo

the only reason they look weaker is the change from part 1 to part 2.. Things got different, oper..

while in part 1 , the fight between hiruzen and oro looked legendary.. when compared to part 2 fights, it's just meh...

As i've stated.. if kishi was to rewrite part 1, or rewrite that fight, It would Change ENTIRELY...

I agree with this if that fight happen in part two no one would doubt hiruzen

 

[ReapTermin]

One question to all: If Hiruzen was so god-like, why did he wait for Minato instead of taking on the Nine Tails himself? I want an answer to that question.

 

[ANBU Kakashi23]

You made 1 slight mistake

Hashirama and tobirama weren't half power.. They were full..

Orochimaru's edo tensei was PERFECTED.. as stated by kabutoo

the only reason they look weaker is the change from part 1 to part 2.. Things got different, oper..

while in part 1 , the fight between hiruzen and oro looked legendary.. when compared to part 2 fights, it's just meh...

As i've stated.. if kishi was to rewrite part 1, or rewrite that fight, It would Change ENTIRELY...

that would be something to see, give hiruzen decent chakra stores and just step back and let the god work :scorps:

 

[Pizcobaby]

One question to all: If Hiruzen was so god-like, why did he wait for Minato instead of taking on the Nine Tails himself? I want an answer to that question.

well he was still almost 60 during the invasion - again not in his prime. And he didn't wait for the forth to take on the 9tails himself, he was waiting for backup. Pushing him out of the village wasn't mean to hurt the 9tails, it was meant to stall till the fourth came so they could all destroy it. When the third arrived as Minato was sealing the fox with the death reaper seal, he was trying to intervene and fight instead. He didn't expect Minato to did that obvious by the surprise in both manga and in the flashback episode.

And am I the only who thinks it is something that the entire weight of the 9tails was pushed back like 15 body lengths all on the third's 59 year old arms? Enma pushed but the weight still went down on the third.

Anyways, there you have it. He was waiting for backup, if he knew the fourth wasn't coming he probably would have done more. I personally don't think at that age he would have won against both Madara and the 9tails, but definitely done a ton more if he wasn't merely trying to stall, at least put up a great fight for the 9tails.

 

[Pizcobaby]

Orochimaru did not fully master Edo Tensei when he used it to fight Hiruzen. That means that anybody he would have awakened would not have been at their 100%. You see Kabuto? He fully mastered Edo Tensei. That's why Madara is much more powerful than when he was at his prime.



Read the manga. It's there.

Lol YOU read the manga, dude are you just making stuff up? Oro mastered the technique he just didn't believe in giving people as much free will as Kabuto. Madara is much more powerful now because he has senju jutsu and rennigan you fool, that's a very commonly known fact.
Lol are you just making things up?

 

[ANBU Kakashi23]

Lol YOU read the manga, dude are you just making stuff up? Oro mastered the technique he just didn't believe in giving people as much free will as Kabuto. Madara is much more powerful now because he has senju jutsu you fool, that's a very commonly known fact.
Lol are you just making things up?

hes saying oro mastered it between the konoha invasion and his death

edit: although thats not in the manga, its an inference based on what you think

 

[ReapTermin]

Lol YOU read the manga, dude are you just making stuff up? Oro mastered the technique he just didn't believe in giving people as much free will as Kabuto. Madara is much more powerful now because he has senju jutsu you fool, that's a very commonly known fact.
Lol are you just making things up?

Are you saying that Madara did not have Mokuton before he was resurrected? Are you saying that Kabuto gave Madara Mokuton?

 

[ReapTermin]

well he was still almost 60 during the invasion - again not in his prime. And he didn't wait for the forth to take on the 9tails himself, he was waiting for backup. Pushing him out of the village wasn't mean to hurt the 9tails, it was meant to stall till the fourth came so they could all destroy it. When the third arrived as Minato was sealing the fox with the death reaper seal, he was trying to intervene and fight instead. He didn't expect Minato to did that obvious by the surprise in both manga and in the flashback episode.

And am I the only who thinks it is something that the entire weight of the 9tails was pushed back like 15 body lengths all on the third's 59 year old arms? Enma pushed but the weight still went down on the third.

Anyways, there you have it. He was waiting for backup, if he knew the fourth wasn't coming he probably would have done more. I personally don't think at that age he would have won against both Madara and the 9tails, but definitely done a ton more if he wasn't merely trying to stall, at least put up a great fight for the 9tails.

That's what I was looking for. I had a similar thought. Thanks for your statement. +Rep.

Sorry for double post.

 

[Pizcobaby]

hes saying oro mastered it between the konoha invasion and his death

edit: although thats not in the manga, its an inference based on what you think

Nah Kabuto and the third both mentioned it saying that he "mastered it" and somewhere I dunno if i have the will to find it for this thread, but it was stated that Oro did not give nearly as much free will, giving him more control and making his summons not as powerful because they don't have their own free will to fight. Most likely because Oro had the insight to know that giving them too much freedom and they could break loose (itachi).

 

[ANBU Kakashi23]

Nah Kabuto and the third both mentioned it saying that he "mastered it" and somewhere I dunno if i have the will to find it for this thread, but it was stated that Oro did not give nearly as much free will, giving him more control and making his summons not as powerful because they don't have their own free will to fight. Most likely because Oro had the insight to know that giving them too much freedom and they could break loose (itachi).

Spoiler

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i know, i thought that was what he was trying to express lol, but i misread

 

[Pizcobaby]

Are you saying that Madara did not have Mokuton before he was resurrected? Are you saying that Kabuto gave Madara Mokuton?

wait wha? lol

 

[Sukalotta Kok]

well he was still almost 60 during the invasion - again not in his prime. And he didn't wait for the forth to take on the 9tails himself, he was waiting for backup. Pushing him out of the village wasn't mean to hurt the 9tails, it was meant to stall till the fourth came so they could all destroy it. When the third arrived as Minato was sealing the fox with the death reaper seal, he was trying to intervene and fight instead. He didn't expect Minato to did that obvious by the surprise in both manga and in the flashback episode.

And am I the only who thinks it is something that the entire weight of the 9tails was pushed back like 15 body lengths all on the third's 59 year old arms? Enma pushed but the weight still went down on the third.

Anyways, there you have it. He was waiting for backup, if he knew the fourth wasn't coming he probably would have done more. I personally don't think at that age he would have won against both Madara and the 9tails, but definitely done a ton more if he wasn't merely trying to stall, at least put up a great fight for the 9tails.

Great i agree for the most part but quick question, what would Hiruzen have done against the TBB that was deployed if Minato didn't show up as you said IF he didn't show up.

 

[ReapTermin]

Nah Kabuto and the third both mentioned it saying that he "mastered it" and somewhere I dunno if i have the will to find it for this thread, but it was stated that Oro did not give nearly as much free will, giving him more control and making his summons not as powerful because they don't have their own free will to fight. Most likely because Oro had the insight to know that giving them too much freedom and they could break loose (itachi).

If Orochimaru had perfected Edo Tensei... he would've won against Hiruzen. I know it's right there on the Manga, but Hashirama still remains as the God Shinobi(4th actually-SO6P, then Sons, then Hashirama).

 

[ReapTermin]

wait wha? lol

WTF?! You're telling me to read the Manga and you don't know what I'm talking about? Do you even know what Mokuton is?

 

[TheSages456]

the part 2 supposed haxxed hiruzen nearly got soloed by the kyuubi in like 10 minutes with help from a bunch of leaf shinobi. yup hes a god alright. hashirama took on madara who has katons, tsukiyomi, amaterasu, susano and a variety of weapons. but guess what. the kyuubi was fighting alongside this beast uchiha and who won? hashirama
hashirama>>>>hiruzen

 

[Thewargoeson]

Great i agree for the most part but quick question, what would Hiruzen have done against the TBB that was deployed if Minato didn't show up as you said IF he didn't show up.

what he wudve done? i rly dnt know. but i dnt see how its relevant. it doesnt disprove the fact tht he cud hace still beaten kurama without minato

 

[ReapTermin]

the part 2 supposed haxxed hiruzen nearly got soloed by the kyuubi in like 10 minutes with help from a bunch of leaf shinobi. Yup hes a god alright. Hashirama took on madara who has katons, tsukiyomi, amaterasu, susano and a variety of weapons. But guess what. The kyuubi was fighting alongside this beast uchiha and who won? Hashirama
hashirama>>>>hiruzen

thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! +rep~!