Hiruzen (god debate)

[EternalSage]

Why even resurrect this seemingly never ending argument...

 

[Mizukage88]

People often over look the fact HE TOOK ON OROCHIMARU FIRST AND SECOND HOKAGE now what

 

[Sage of Infinity Paths]

no one is god

 

[ReapTermin]

its possible, like i said i rly dnt think we can say.
how wud reasurring him tht he is a god make him weak?

The way Orchimaru talked to Naruto when they fought made Naruto weak and made him turn into the Nine Tails. That is actually emotional weakness. Naruto could have actually lost against Pain if he had stayed in the Nine Tails From; the way he lost against Sasuke was kinda similar.

 

[Thewargoeson]

From what I've seen of Hiruzen, he can't even beat Tsunade!
:flaw:
Tsunade would break his old ass face and Enma would get suplexed by her!

hashirama>>hiruzen

hiruzen with a part 2 boost couldnt even hold his own against kyuubi. please dont say hashiramas abilities suppress bijuus bla bla bla. it doesnt suppress the moment it touches them. hashirama>ems madara and kyuubi. i can go on bout how hiruzens hype is false. but then i would be on here all night.

hiruzen never got the chance to fight kyuubi? he pushed him out and was gonna fight him but minato put up tht barrier

Hash was hyped by Madara , Kabuto, Tobi, Tsunade. I dont think any of those besides Kabuto give hypes so freely..

ik all those hyped him. but shud tht lessen the hype given to kiruzen by someone jst as valid a source for hype as those people?

Why even resurrect this seemingly never ending argument...

been on my mind

 

[Thewargoeson]

The way Orchimaru talked to Naruto when they fought made Naruto weak and made him turn into the Nine Tails. That is actually emotional weakness. Naruto could have actually lost against Pain if he had stayed in the Nine Tails From; the way he lost against Sasuke was kinda similar.

But how wud telling hiruzen he's a god hurt him mentally?

 

[Sir Blades]

why do people want to ignore the fact that the creator himself said that he was soo powerfull and everybody just seems to ignore that.

 

[Thewargoeson]

why do people want to ignore the fact that the creator himself said that he was soo powerfull and everybody just seems to ignore that.

no idea :shrug:

 

[ReapTermin]

People often over look the fact HE TOOK ON OROCHIMARU FIRST AND SECOND HOKAGE now what

He took on Hashirama and Tobirama... then he took on Orochimaru. Plus, I don't think that Hashirama and Tobirama were at full power since Orochimaru did not fully master Edo Tensei.

 

[Sukalotta Kok]

People often over look the fact HE TOOK ON OROCHIMARU FIRST AND SECOND HOKAGE now what

Same for hash and him taking on Madara twice, once with kurama, or surviving an assassination attempt by kakazu. BTW hiruzen lost that Battle

 

[Noobastank]

From what I've seen of Hiruzen, he can't even beat Tsunade!

Tsunade would break his old ass face and Enma would get suplexed by her!

Foolish mortal...Read your manga. Hiruzen is the best all around ninja without a keke genkai. No one weak is sharing the same nickname as the sage of six paths

 

[ReapTermin]

But how wud telling hiruzen he's a god hurt him mentally?

He didn't call him a god... he said he used to be a god and that he got old.

 

[Thewargoeson]

Same for hash and him taking on Madara twice, once with kurama, or surviving an assassination attempt by kakazu. BTW hiruzen lost that Battle

mm in a way. he beat the 2 kages and if it wasnt for his age he wudve beaten oro

 

[Sukalotta Kok]

He took on Hashirama and Tobirama... then he took on Orochimaru. Plus, I don't think that Hashirama and Tobirama were at full power since Orochimaru did not fully master Edo Tensei.

Not to mention they weren't in control either. Till the end where they were sealed, they were able to apologize for being troublesome.

 

[Thewargoeson]

He didn't call him a god... he said he used to be a god and that he got old.

when did he say used?

 

[Owarij]

its possible tht he only meant to im jst speculating on tht.
so jst to clarify are u saying he forgot those jutsus?

Naw he never learnt them


In hiruzen's prime, AT that point in time.. he knew all the EXISTING justu in konoha..
Kakashi probably wasn't even born yet, etc.. Minato would be a toddler..

When oro was fighting hashirama, his words were

"You used to be called the professor, for once knowing and being able to use all existing konoha jutsu"

Note his entire sentence is past.. New ninja and jutsu like ftg ect he probably didn't know..

However he may have had rasengan... it's not that difficult to learn, even kakashi had it... It's molding chakra into a ball.. someone with his chakra control can do it in one try..

We do see however though in old age, hiruzen did try to keep up with his arsenal of jutsu, he went ahead and learned minato's Death god seal..

 

[Mizukage88]

He took on Hashirama and Tobirama... then he took on Orochimaru. Plus, I don't think that Hashirama and Tobirama were at full power since Orochimaru did not fully master Edo Tensei.

they seem'd pretty prime to me even at half their some how half their power old man hiruzen still handled it like a champ . He is just downplayed now cause in part two there is alot of op jutsu and people to keep it intresting naruto is turning into dbz lol. But ya know until Kishi says Hiruzen is a B**ch a$$ punk shinobi then sure it's cool but once it's retracted by kishi then it stands IMO But i think the first Mizukage is stronger then all of them <_< though we have not heard or seen him but mist village is the best

 

[ReapTermin]

mm in a way. he beat the 2 kages and if it wasnt for his age he wudve beaten oro

Orochimaru did not fully master Edo Tensei when he used it to fight Hiruzen. That means that anybody he would have awakened would not have been at their 100%. You see Kabuto? He fully mastered Edo Tensei. That's why Madara is much more powerful than when he was at his prime.

when did he say used?

Read the manga. It's there.

 

[Pizcobaby]

lol Hashirama was not hyped by Kabuto - his chakra was, as would anybody with such pure senju chakra would be. Tsunade didn't hype him, please link if you can find any I don't recall her ever hyping in relation to other Kages. And we truly don't know if Tobi is in fact Madara himself so chea. Only reason Hash was typed by Madara was because he got owned whether or not it was on purpose is another discussion.

I think we can all agree that Oro is the smartest ninja in the series, so it wouldn't make sense for him to say such things without them being true, would just be bad writing.

There is also what Hiruzen actually did - take on Oro who is easily kage level, partial first and partial second all at the same time, at 69 HAH.

And if that isn't enough in an interview with

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in an issue of "Protoculture", Kishi stated he was the strongest of any Hokages yet, i.e. going with one of the theme of Naruto that the new generation > the old one, as well as the theme of "power breeds power" - meaning pretty much that power leads to power. The first and second lead to the third, who lead to the sannin, who lead to naruto, sasuke, ect ect ect.

Not a fanboy of Hiruzen. He was decent leader but a pushover and shouldn't have waited so long to choose another successor. But facts are facts =p, based solely on the facts I make my conclusion that he was the strongest of past hokages. You really can't argue with that.

 

[Thewargoeson]

Naw he never learnt them


In hiruzen's prime, AT that point in time.. he knew all the EXISTING justu in konoha..
Kakashi probably wasn't even born yet, etc.. Minato would be a toddler..

When oro was fighting hashirama, his words were

"You used to be called the professor, for once knowing and being able to use all existing konoha jutsu"

Note his entire sentence is past.. New ninja and jutsu like ftg ect he probably didn't know..

However he may have had rasengan... it's not that difficult to learn, even kakashi had it... It's molding chakra into a ball.. someone with his chakra control can do it in one try..

We do see however though in old age, hiruzen did try to keep up with his arsenal of jutsu, he went ahead and learned minato's Death god seal..

its possible. but there rly is no clarification on when he stopped learning nunjutsu. and edo was around in his prime so he knew it. and as we know minato and hiruzen tlked about their techniques so i assume he'd share it with him

they seem'd pretty prime to me even at half their some how half their power old man hiruzen still handled it like a champ . He is just downplayed now cause in part two there is alot of op jutsu and people to keep it intresting naruto is turning into dbz lol. But ya know until Kishi says Hiruzen is a B**ch a$$ punk shinobi then sure it's cool but once it's retracted by kishi then it stands IMO But i think the first Mizukage is stronger then all of them <_< though we have not heard or seen him but mist village is the best

uhhh tht last part.... i cnt agree with