Hinata might be the strongest Hyuuga

[Uverdore9]

I know this a wank thread but just putting this here.

Neji, Hiashi are stronger than her. Hanabi is weaker by a small length.

 

[saradax]

Neji from the war arc would humiliate her adult character.

 

[Uverdore9]

Neji from the war arc would humiliate her adult character.

Who cant agree with this holy post?

 

[Jinrou]

Sorry bout the late edit bro , got sidetracked yeterday when writing. I'll address the points here and try to keep it short.

No worries

Spoiler

What basic techs would Hiashi be teaching her for the clan? We would assume that those basics took years right? Since never had them.
With Ino-Shika-Cho we can determine that the reason they never had the higher leveled jutsu is due to their own growth needing to reach a certain level before they could go on to higher level techs.

-Kiba using fang over fang doesn't mean he was instantly capable of 3 headed wolf until his own growth matured for him to be able to with more training. We cant assume that they could've learnt those techs but were simply nerfed by their parents.

When i say Hiashi could've demonstrated Rotation i didn't mean fully teach it to his heirs with them learning at one time. I meant that he could simply tell them the secrets on how he does it through the years of teaching while showing them live. If u need to master the gentle fist to use Rotation , then it makes sense for it to take years before one can do it.

For instance , would u argue that Hiashi for 12 years didn't try teaching Hinata anything other than basic open palmed taijutsu? Or would we simply assume that he tried but Hinata just wasn't at the needed level to learn anything at that time? Why cant we simply assume that for Hinata to have learnt advanced techs she needed to become more advanced herself beforehand.

Spoiler

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Air palm is the most basic Hyuga tech. Hinata didn't lose heir status until that fight with Hanabi and that was when she had only become Genin. There were only months possibly between that exact moment and the chuunin exam seeing as the 3rd DB says Shikamaru graduated at 12 and became Chuunin at 12 (He became Chuunin a month or so after the exams seeing as Naruto took weeks to learn rasengan iirc plus travel time to find Tsunade who promoted Shika and bring her back to Konoha).

So in the months between Hinata becoming Genin and the Chuunin exams, Hiashi had told Hanabi about Rotation already? That cannot be logical because Rotation is an advanced technique. Uchiha can use other forms of the fireball technique but Sasuke was only taught the basic one first.

I can bet Hanabi and possibly Hinata didn't even know about the blindspot during the chunin exams and that's why i say Hiashi teaching the secretes to an advanced technique only months after becoming designated heir in Hanabi's case would only make sense if he was desperate or sth. The same way Neji knew about Rotation and 64 palms despite not being main is likely the same way Hinata and Hanabi knew about it too. 13/14 year old Hanabi (The Last) was a fodder. She didn't have air palm but that doesn't mean it was difficult for her seeing as Neji and Hinata around the same age didn't have the tech too.

Not to mention this only increases the number of years before Hinata masters it to close to 30 which still makes no sense as Rotation isn't the pinnacle of CC and Hinata's byakugan that can help with CC isn't defective in anyway.

But how can it be incorrect? The Manga says Jonin can usually only utilize Chakra from the hands and feet. This is why Sakura was shocked that Sasuke was able to emit Chidori from his entire body. The manga says for a Hyuga , only a master of Gentle fist can emit Chakra from his entire body. This shows that simply releasing Chakra from an number of Tenketsu requires difficulty which is related to full Mastery of the gentle fist. The control of that Chakra itself is another thing all togther/

Good point about Sasuke. I forgot that.. But then its confusing. The db plus Tenten's statement makes it look like Gentle fist mastery is needed to be able to expel from every tenketsu which implied only Hyuga have the ability to be able to expel from every tenketsu.

But the manga did not say that bold. Hyuga's are normal humans like everyone else why would their own criteria be different? Plus it says Jonin (generalization) not Hyuga Jonin.

And really control and release are not intertwined. The difficulty there is for controlling the chakra after it has been released regular Jonin can only control released chakra from one limb at a time. But Jonin would have no difficulty releasing from two limbs at a time if Genin can release from two at a time. Basically what i've been saying is the spinning is what require Chakra control but the release of chakra doesn't have a difficulty ascribed to it.

Spoiler

Kishi makes a point to tell us Hinata bloomed after the War. Yet even the Last Hinata didn't show signs of the ability. Hinata simply got better at Chakra control over the years until she could use Rotation just like Hanabi. Why wouldn't Chakra control increase over the years? Hanabi had heir rights yet i can assume it took her years reach the level where she could use Kaiten hence why she didn't have it in the Last. I dont want to assume the Last Hanabi could've learnt Rotation if Hiashi simply decided to tell her how to emit Chakra.

Like-wise i can assume Hanabi took years to master 64 palms by first passing 4 palms then making her way up until she could complete it just like Hinata. How would one go about teaching someone how to use Rotation if not teach them how to control theri chakra.

Rotation is an ability that requires the user to have full control over their tenketsu Chakra. It requires having the ability to both release chakra from every node , and controlling that Chakra for utlization. I fail to see how the training for this wouldn't be related to Chakra control and how Neji learning it isn't a testament to his CC genius just like his praise from Hiruzen makes him the most skilled Hyuga in Taijutsu.

Agree with the bold and that's why i dedicated an entire paragraph to show Salamanders scans that say Hinata was a master was probably fake. But that's part of the reason for this debate. Hinata's talent bloomed and 2 years (or 7 since you say she was taught when she was still heir) after starting to learn Rotation like you say, she couldn't even just emit the chakra from any other points without spinning? That doesn't make sense to me. That would also imply body blow is an advanced difficult technique which isn't supported in the series.

- Breaking down the palms seems to be an incorrect thing to do. I have heard one Hyuga distant relative uses 16 palms but that doesn't make sense to me at least. The 64 palms is one move that can't be halved and that's why Hinata's statement when she only executes 32 proves she originally set out to execute 64 [

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]. If 32 only could cause damage or immobility or anything, then she could have set off to do 32 before realizing she could do 64.

- Hiruzen's praise probably meant he was the most skilled at that age compared to other Hyuga. Surely you don't think at that stage he was more skilled than adult Hyuga? I hope not because Kishi considers experience important and Neji at that point had only done D and C rank missions which required no fighting.

We can assume that to learn 64 palms one would first need to be taught the movements and steps right? What do u think is incorporated into the training for Rotation?

Plus the secrets to the hexagram formation and the exact 64 tenketsu to be pressed seeing as there are over 300 in the body iirc. Rotation requires expelling chakra then spinning which has the difficulty. Where we're at loggerheads is i believe that expelling from all tenketsu part can only be done if you know something which leads to complete GF mastery which the head keeps secret.

That Neji who left the academy only a year prior and had no real battle experience but learnt it in a month is proof for me that secret is relatively something easy to do but figuring it out is near impossible and why i said it is proof of his ingenuity more than his CC being > all adult Hyuga.


And i got your message.. but you aren't getting my main point it seems. Okay, moving chakra inside the body requires CC and that's why the feet are the most difficult place to gather chakra but what i'm saying is expelling chakra alone isn't a cc technique that requires extreme difficulty and that's why i've been saying that scan doesn't ascribe difficulty to release chakra.

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- [

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], [

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]. In the first link, Jiraiya had just corrected his seal and he was able to walk on water. The next links are the next chapter and we can see these imply Naruto has no problem releasing the chakra needed to walk on water but controlling the chakra in the right amounts was where his problem lay.