Hiashi could probably beat sage mode Naruto

[Guntah]

FRS would get repeled and explode on impact if slammed into Kaiten by the user , which would likely kill both , if this is Base Naruto when he just learned it.

A larger Rotation like Hiashi's would re-direct and repel the FRS along with its explosion , and would not get consumed by the blast due to its size , leaving Naruto to collect the left-over energy if he slammed into it himself.

Well, fine, I'll give you a point for that, I didn't take into account Hiashi's rotation being stronger than Neji's, and while I could argue that the Rasenshuriken's center would work like a Rasengan and struggle before exploding, I will move onto something more beneficial to my side of the argument, and that is that Hiashi's Kaiten could only block so much,

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I'm doubtful on wether he could take on this Rasengan with a Kaiten, which is far more ideal on breaking such defenses than the Rasenshuriken.

 

[neosmith500]

Well, fine, I'll give you a point for that, I didn't take into account Hiashi's rotation being stronger than Neji's, and while I could argue that the Rasenshuriken's center would work like a Rasengan and struggle before exploding, I will move onto something more beneficial to my side of the argument, and that is that Hiashi's Kaiten could only block so much,


I'm doubtful on wether he could take on this Rasengan with a Kaiten, which is far more ideal on breaking such defenses than the Rasenshuriken.

Double Odama Rasengan? It likely would , because the rotation would deflect the Balls and repel the Chakra with Kaiten's other more uncommonly known ability , which is the ability to knock away Chakra.

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[Guntah]

Double Odama Rasengan? It likely would , because the rotation would deflect the Balls and repel the Chakra with Kaiten's other more uncommonly known ability.

I was talking about one alone to do the job. True, it would deflect it, if not for how insanely strong Naruto is in Sage Mode.

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That kind of strength would easily prevent the Rasengan from being pushed aside by the Kaiten's rotation, which upon getting through the Kaiten, would land a direct hit on Hiashi, which easily spells death for any normal human being.

 

[neosmith500]

I was talking about one alone to do the job. True, it would deflect it, if not for how insanely strong Naruto is in Sage Mode.

That kind of strength would easily prevent the Rasengan from being pushed aside by the Kaiten's rotation, which upon getting through the Kaiten, would land a direct hit on Hiashi, which easily spells death for any normal human being.

Naruto's physical strength would do ntn to stop the Ball of Chakra from getting re-directed by the spinning momentum , on impact the Balls would get repeled and bounce back and the chakra would simultaneously get knocked away so there would be no struggle.

Also Naruto breaches the dome , then a explosion would happen which would likely kill Hiashi , but it wont breach due to getting repeled on impact , unless Hiashi starts his rotation late like Neji did , or has to continue spinning till he cant spin fast enough.

 

[Guntah]

Naruto's physical strength would do ntn to stop the Ball of Chakra from getting re-directed by the spinning momentum , on impact the Balls would get repeled and bounce back and the chakra would simultaneously get knocked away so there would be no struggle.

Also Naruto breaches the dome , then a explosion would happen which would likely kill Hiashi , but it wont breach due to getting repeled on impact , unless Hiashi starts his rotation late like Neji did , or has to continue spinning till he cant spin fast enough.

The Rotation repels chakra because it pushes it off to the side, but if the impact is strong enough upon impact, it should blast through the layer of chakra easily enough. That's exactly why Naruto's fist wasn't pushed aside by the incomplete Kaiten, the punch had too much strength behind it, and so does the Rasengan.

 

[neosmith500]

The Rotation repels chakra because it pushes it off to the side, but if the impact is strong enough upon impact, it should blast through the layer of chakra easily enough. That's exactly why Naruto's fist wasn't pushed aside by the incomplete Kaiten, the punch had too much strength behind it, and so does the Rasengan.

Naruto didn't use the force of his punch , he used the force of his shunshin + Expanded Chakra from kurama , not to mention Naruto was instantly repeled after his Chakra made contact with Neji's so i dont know where ur getting Naruto's punch wasn't pushed aside from when he got blasted away on impact , Naruto didn't even make physical contact with Neji's Kaiten.

It really has ntn to do with force because Kaiten repels overwhelming force just like it repelled the juubies Tail.

 

[Guntah]

Naruto didn't use the force of his punch , he used the force of his shunshin + Expanded Chakra from kurama , not to mention Naruto was instantly repeled after his Chakra made contact with Neji's so i dont know where ur getting Naruto's punch wasn't pushed aside from when he got blasted away on impact , Naruto didn't even made physical contact with Neji's Kaiten.

It really has ntn to do with force because Kaiten repels overwhelming force just like it repelled the juubies Tail.

Probably from the anime, where its a punch/kunai swing, I keep forgetting that.

Its getting hard to argue with so little examples on the jutsu itself's use. However, answer me this. If it were to be blasted aside, what would prevent its impact from getting through the Kaiten regardless? Naruto's first use of the Oddama Rasengan, far smaller than the Sage Mode version, was enough to destroy the entire area where the battle was happening.

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Even if it DIDN'T pierce through the Kaiten, Hiashi would still be affected by the fact that he has no longer any ground to stand in. The Oddama Rasengan, one way or another, leaves them vunerable.

 

[neosmith500]

Probably from the anime, where its a punch/kunai swing, I keep forgetting that.

Its getting hard to argue with so little examples on the jutsu itself's use. However, answer me this. If it were to be blasted aside, what would prevent its impact from getting through the Kaiten regardless? Naruto's first use of the Oddama Rasengan, far smaller than the Sage Mode version, was enough to destroy the entire area where the battle was happening.

Because it wouldn't have time to drill into/through the dome since it would get repeled away on impact , think of somone trying to put a knife into a spinning fan , it would get blasted on impact , same with the rasengan.

The impact alone from the rasengan wasn't enough send itachi flying backwards on impact , the odama rasengan had time to drill into him and explode , but if done on Hiashi's Rotation it would get repelled on the slightest impact so theres a big difference.

Even if it DIDN'T pierce through the Kaiten, Hiashi would still be affected by the fact that he has no longer any ground to stand in. The Oddama Rasengan, one way or another, leaves them vunerable.

Why would he not have any ground to stand in when his Rotation's AOE would protect his space of ground from the space getting destroyed by Naruto's Odama rasengan exploding?

 

[Guntah]

Because it wouldn't have time to drill into/through the dome since it would get repeled away on impact , think of somone trying to put a knife into a spinning fan , it would get blasted on impact , same with the rasengan.

The impact alone from the rasengan wasn't enough send itachi flying backwards on impact , the odama rasengan had time to drill into him and explode , but if done on Hiashi's Rotation it would get repelled on the slightest impact so theres a big difference.




Why would he not have any ground to stand in when his Rotation's AOE would protect his space of ground from the space getting destroyed by Naruto's Odama rasengan exploding?

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You can see that while the Kaiten leaves behind a crater, its a very superficial one, meaning it doesn't cover the user that much from underneath. You can see on the previous post's gif that just by hitting Itachi this inferior Rasengan already does a lot of damage to its surroundings. If a stronger one were to hit the ground directly , it would completely destroy its surroundings, so even if Hiashi deflectes the Rasengan, its impact on the ground alone will already be enough to at the very least negate his spinning (since he'll have no ground to stand on) and leave him vunerable for Naruto to attack.

 

[neosmith500]

You can see that while the Kaiten leaves behind a crater, its a very superficial one, meaning it doesn't cover the user that much from underneath. You can see on the previous post's gif that just by hitting Itachi this inferior Rasengan already does a lot of damage to its surroundings. If a stronger one were to hit the ground directly , it would completely destroy its surroundings, so even if Hiashi deflectes the Rasengan, its impact on the ground alone will already be enough to at the very least negate his spinning (since he'll have no ground to stand on) and leave him vunerable for Naruto to attack.

The rasengan had time to drill into and explode , which resulted in the destruction , The rotation would repel the explosion , blocking it which would lead to it doing ntn to negate the spin since the explosion would be repelled unlike against Itachi.

If Naruto attacks the ground near the rotation directly , then this would be even worse since kaiten would simply repel the explosion , if it even explodes anyway since the explosion is incosistent just like when Naruto first used Rasengan on Kabuto compared to later usage.

 

[Guntah]

The rasengan had time to drill into and explode , which resulted in the destruction , The rotation would repel the explosion , blocking it which would lead to it doing ntn to negate the spin since the explosion would be repelled unlike against Itachi.

If Naruto attacks the ground near the rotation directly , then this would be even worse since kaiten would simply repel the explosion , if it even explodes anyway since the explosion is incosistent just like when Naruto first used Rasengan on Kabuto compared to later usage.

How would Kaiten repel something it wasn't covering, like something that damaged the ground? It only digs into the surface of the ground, a direct Rasengan would cause far more than superficial damage. Because it WOULD cause that destruction. Nearby destruction is inconsistent, I'll admit. But if you force it against the ground without it dispelling, expect some damage bigger than the one shown in the gif, which happened only a moment after it hit Itachi and grew from there.

 

[neosmith500]

How would Kaiten repel something it wasn't covering, like something that damaged the ground? It only digs into the surface of the ground, a direct Rasengan would cause far more than superficial damage. Because it WOULD cause that destruction. Nearby destruction is inconsistent, I'll admit. But if you force it against the ground without it dispelling, expect some damage bigger than the one shown in the gif, which happened only a moment after it hit Itachi and grew from there.

A direct rasengan to the kaiten or the ground??

The kaiten would still cover the space around it and Rasengans explosion cant overlap into the ground if its explosion is repelled on impact.

 

[Guntah]

A direct rasengan to the kaiten or the ground??

The kaiten would still cover the space around it and Rasengans explosion cant overlap into the ground if its explosion is repelled on impact.

To the ground, after being pushed there by the Kaiten...

And no it wouldn't. You saw how poor the Kaiten's defences are from underneath the user. There is no way that would protect the user from such destruction...

 

[neosmith500]

To the ground, after being pushed there by the Kaiten...

And no it wouldn't. You saw how poor the Kaiten's defences are from underneath the user. There is no way that would protect the user from such destruction...

The rasengan would get repelled backwards , not pushed to the ground , and if it explodes its gonna explode on impact meaning the explosion would also simultaneously get repelled backwards and away from kaiten.

 

[Guntah]

The rasengan would get repelled backwards , not pushed to the ground , and if it explodes its gonna explode on impact meaning the explosion would also simultaneously get repelled backwards and away from kaiten.

How would a massive ball of chakra be repelled backwards? Something of that its size and power upon impact combined with the direction the Kaiten is rotating towards would logically push it off to the side if it put up struggle, downwards more likely then not due to its impact, thus hitting the ground and disrupting the kaiten. I get Naruto being tossed back by it, but he was caught off guard during its creation, something with that strength behind it pushing towards it should do more than just bounce of.

 

[neosmith500]

How would a massive ball of chakra be repelled backwards? Something of that its size and power upon impact combined with the direction the Kaiten is rotating towards would logically push it off to the side if it put up struggle, downwards more likely then not due to its impact, thus hitting the ground and disrupting the kaiten. I get Naruto being tossed back by it, but he was caught off guard during its creation, something with that strength behind it pushing towards it should do more than just bounce of.

Because thats wat kaiten does , it repels. The ball would get blasted away with great force on impact , not simply knocked to the side close to the rotation , it would get blasted away a good distance from kaiten if it doesn't explode on impact , and the chakra explosion would get repelled by kaiten's ability to knock away chakra even if it does hit the ground near it , but it wont due to kaiten sending it far away.

Physical power is irrelevant when two small kaitens knocked away the force of the juubi with ease , Odama is gonna get sent flying away not simply knocked to the ground.

 

[Guntah]

Because thats wat kaiten does , it repels. The ball would get blasted away with great force on impact , not simply knocked to the side close to the rotation , it would get blasted away a good distance from kaiten if it doesn't explode on impact , and the chakra explosion would get repelled by kaiten's ability to knock away chakra even if it does hit the ground near it , but it wont due to kaiten sending it far away.

Physical power is irrelevant when two small kaitens knocked away the force of the juubi with ease , Odama is gonna get sent flying away not simply knocked to the ground.

I think you're heavily overestimating what the Kaiten's abilities are. But, giving the benefit of the doubt, with it being able to repel a Rasengan that big, it won't block what's coming from the ground. Naruto is pushing the Rasengan, the same Naruto who flipped the Kyuubi over, someone with far more feats in sheer strength than a single Juubi arm, and two Kaiten were required to push that aside, its not at all a stretch to say that it would at least push this massive Rasengan off to the side upon contact. And as soon as it didi, the Kaiten would not counter what comes next. Because its the same thing as Sakura punching the ground. It will break, not because chakra is making it break, but because of the massive force behind the Rasengan itself. Its essentially the same thing as a very small, very concentrated earthquake, and the Kaiten can't counter that kind of thing.

 

[neosmith500]

I think you're heavily overestimating what the Kaiten's abilities are. But, giving the benefit of the doubt, with it being able to repel a Rasengan that big, it won't block what's coming from the ground. Naruto is pushing the Rasengan, the same Naruto who flipped the Kyuubi over, someone with far more feats in sheer strength than a single Juubi arm, and two Kaiten were required to push that aside, its not at all a stretch to say that it would at least push this massive Rasengan off to the side upon contact. And as soon as it didi, the Kaiten would not counter what comes next. Because its the same thing as Sakura punching the ground. It will break, not because chakra is making it break, but because of the massive force behind the Rasengan itself. Its essentially the same thing as a very small, very concentrated earthquake, and the Kaiten can't counter that kind of thing.

Im not actually , only using logic without overestimating a thing.

The size of the rasengan is irrelevant to it getting knocked back since the juubi's tail was much bigger/heavier , and Naruto's physical power is irrelevant when we kno that tails are the strongest parts of any bijuu , two small Kaitens bein able to handle the juubis force with ease which means a giant one would do much better against a lighter attack bein carried by weaker force , since juubi force >> Naruto's thrusting force , along with the fact that Kaiten has a ability to literally knock away chakra , on top of its repelling properties.

Even if it hits the ground , the only way for it to destroy the ground is if it explodes , if it explodes near kaiten , then the explosion would meet Kaiten's repelling force before it reaches even half the size it reached against itachi and would do ntn more than get blown away neg diff.

If ur saying that the Rasengan without a explosion would destroy the ground surrounding Hiashi without the explosion , then that doesn't make any sense and all that would happen is it making a small crater if it doesnt explode like against itachi.

 

[Guntah]

Im not actually , only using logic without overestimating a thing.

The size of the rasengan is irrelevant to it getting knocked back since the juubi's tail was much bigger/heavier , and Naruto's physical power is irrelevant when we kno that tails are the strongest parts of any bijuu , two small Kaitens bein able to handle the juubis force with ease which means a giant one would do much better against a lighter attack bein carried by weaker force , since juubi force >> Naruto's thrusting force , along with the fact that Kaiten has a ability to literally knock away chakra , on top of its repelling properties.

Even if it hits the ground , the only way for it to destroy the ground is if it explodes , if it explodes near kaiten , then the explosion would meet Kaiten's repelling force before it reaches even half the size it reached against itachi and would do ntn more than get blown away neg diff.

If ur saying that the Rasengan without a explosion would destroy the ground surrounding Hiashi without the explosion , then that doesn't make any sense and all that would happen is it making a small crater if it doesnt explode like against itachi.

The Rasengan's very effect is to push someone back after grinding their way through one vitals with its rotation. We have two pushing forces clashing against one another, a Rasengan big enough would push back the Juubi's hand just as easily as a Kaiten, I don't see why you're putting one above the other to this degree as if there would be no contest when they make contact, especially when the Rasengan is empowered by Senjutsu.

And the thing about its landscape destruction here is:

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It preceeds the explosion itself by a lot. The impact is what causes it primarily, not the explosion that follows. It serves to increase it, yes, but you can see it happening before the bright white light covers everything. Meanining it could still grow quite a bit before the explosion is negated by the Kaiten.

 

[Scryed]

Deva being out of commision is a severe handicap if you noticed how quickly Naruto was pinned down with several paths already down.


Naruto in SM may be faster than you think. All his stats are increased quite a bit with SM and he does have suoer strength as well. For Hiashi to block his CP, he'd need to get closed and try not to get clobbered by Frog Katas or a direct hit.