Hiashi could probably beat sage mode Naruto

[neosmith500]

The Rasengan's very effect is to push someone back after grinding their way through one vitals with its rotation. We have two pushing forces clashing against one another, a Rasengan big enough would push back the Juubi's hand just as easily as a Kaiten, I don't see why you're putting one above the other to this degree as if there would be no contest when they make contact, especially when the Rasengan is empowered by Senjutsu.

The bold is exactly the point , Rasengan needs to grind into the tartget while Kaiten would repel it and its Chakra on impact. A Odam rasengan or two woulde likely push back the juubies tail , but it would first grind into it before sending it flying as thats the way it works , while Kaiten would simply repel it instantly with no grind time or lag.

Rasengan is also a rotional technique , but it grinds into the target by spinning in mutltiple directions before blasting the target away , so if it makes contact with Large Kaiten , its gonna get repelled instantly with no grind time or build-up since not only does kaiten repel physical attacks instantly but also Chakra itself , and rasengan is a ball of Naruto's Raw Chakra.

And the thing about its landscape destruction here is:

It preceeds the explosion itself by a lot. The impact is what causes it primarily, not the explosion that follows. It serves to increase it, yes, but you can see it happening before the bright white light covers everything. Meanining it could still grow quite a bit before the explosion is negated by the Kaiten.

That Damage to the ground would not happen the way ur expecting since the Rasengan would get repelled instantly and sent away , so how can it grow if it repelled pre-maturely?

 

[Ambivalence]

Agreed , but a huge factor played a part in that ending result , which cannot be logically ignored.

Neji was caught off guard due to Naruto's sudden last minute increase of speed caused from a large increase of chakra , this led to Neji starting rotation late , resulting in him not building up enough momentum to fully stabilize a full spinning dome , which when ran into by Naruto's Kurama Chakra , the repeling force back-fired , resulting in both getting repeled.

A full spinning Kaiten would repel Naruto without backlash.

This. Though I did use that scan a fair number of times before, it's not really applicable to try and argue that Kaiten can just be punched through with a bit of chakra since that was just an initial surge and not the full thing.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

An Ostrich's brain is equal to the size of a Human eye.
Dubious's brain...

Spoiler

equal to a cockroach's brain

OT: No.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

How would Kaiten repel something it wasn't covering, like something that damaged the ground? It only digs into the surface of the ground, a direct Rasengan would cause far more than superficial damage. Because it WOULD cause that destruction. Nearby destruction is inconsistent, I'll admit. But if you force it against the ground without it dispelling, expect some damage bigger than the one shown in the gif, which happened only a moment after it hit Itachi and grew from there.

When it comes to the damage off the ground it literally means nothing in front of the rotation because if you see any picture of Neji when he uses the rotation he makes his own crater because he is literally spending on his own chakra yes I said that literally spining on top of his own chakra when he rotates he let's chakra from all parts of his body including his feet so basically at this point in time Neji is hovering temporary

 

[Guntah]

The bold is exactly the point , Rasengan needs to grind into the tartget while Kaiten would repel it and its Chakra on impact. A Odam rasengan or two woulde likely push back the juubies tail , but it would first grind into it before sending it flying as thats the way it works , while Kaiten would simply repel it instantly with no grind time or lag.

Rasengan is also a rotional technique , but it grinds into the target by spinning in mutltiple directions before blasting the target away , so if it makes contact with Large Kaiten , its gonna get repelled instantly with no grind time or build-up since not only does kaiten repel physical attacks instantly but also Chakra itself , and rasengan is a ball of Naruto's Raw Chakra.

I think I see where you're coming from. Where our opinions differ is wether this push is controlled by the user or not. You think it requires the grinding first before it explodes, while I think its controlled by the user and the grinding before the explosion happens is only a way to increase the damage caused, correct?

That Damage to the ground would not happen the way ur expecting since the Rasengan would get repelled instantly and sent away , so how can it grow if it repelled pre-maturely?

I'm starting to think this discussion is pointless until we get throught the first point, so I'm just gonna ignore this until we determine which of these two would come on top.

 

[Guntah]

When it comes to the damage off the ground it literally means nothing in front of the rotation because if you see any picture of Neji when he uses the rotation he makes his own crater because he is literally spending on his own chakra yes I said that literally spining on top of his own chakra when he rotates he let's chakra from all parts of his body including his feet so basically at this point in time Neji is hovering temporary

If that's the case, why is the damage done to the ground around him only superficial instead of being a perfectly concave crater?

 

[unknownvillain1254]

If that's the case, why is the damage done to the ground around him only superficial instead of being a perfectly concave crater?

Literally a perfect circle

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[Guntah]

Literally a perfect circle

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Its not deep enough to be a perfect ball though. Which it would be if what you're implying were the case.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Its not deep enough to be a perfect ball though. Which it would be if what you're implying were the case.

I'm confused if u look at neji knee and use that as measuring stick to the surface of the ground where the rotation did not damage the ground you can see that Neji Doug at least 5/12 inch hole in the ground.

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You can't even see an example when they explained it you can see the rotation literally digging into the ground look at neji feet in the picture

 

[Guntah]

I'm confused if u look at neji knee and use that as measuring stick to the surface of the ground where the rotation did not damage the ground you can see that Neji Doug at least 5/12 inch hole in the ground.

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You can't even see an example when they explained it you can see the rotation literally digging into the ground look at neji feet in the picture

Yeah, because it covers the surface of the ground, but nothing beyond that. Thus, its not a perfect circle, which you can see a lot more easy here.

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The hole from Hiashi's rotation is big, but you can see that if it was a full orb being formed, that hole would be a lot deeoer than it turned out to be.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Yeah, because it covers the surface of the ground, but nothing beyond that. Thus, its not a perfect circle, which you can see a lot more easy here.

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The hole from Hiashi's rotation is big, but you can see that if it was a full orb being formed, that hole would be a lot deeoer than it turned out to be.

What you literally are doing is nit-picking it does not matter if the hole was 100 feet deep or two feet deep what you can clearly see it is a crater with a down ward slop which proves my point

 

[Guntah]

What you literally are doing is nit-picking it does not matter if the whole was 100 feet deep or two feet deep what you can clearly see it is a crater with a down ward slop which proves my point

This forum would not survive without nitpicking.

 

[neosmith500]

I think I see where you're coming from. Where our opinions differ is wether this push is controlled by the user or not. You think it requires the grinding first before it explodes, while I think its controlled by the user and the grinding before the explosion happens is only a way to increase the damage caused, correct?

Correct , but likewise a push without a grind would be substantially weaker without the built-up force so it still would get easily defeated by Kaiten's much stronger repelling force , then when we add manga facts of it being able to literally remove and repel raw chakra , it only cements my claim imo.

I'm starting to think this discussion is pointless until we get throught the first point, so I'm just gonna ignore this until we determine which of these two would come on top.

Not really , The rotation will blast the rasengan far away and repel its chakra with great force and if anything naruto would be caught in his own explosion , but i doubt it would explode anyway but if it does it really irrelevant in my eyes.

If it explodes on impact then the explosion of chakra would get repelled away before it does anything to the ground and even so , the explosion would still be re-directed to Naruto like his Kurama did back in the Chunin exams.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Yeah, because it covers the surface of the ground, but nothing beyond that. Thus, its not a perfect circle, which you can see a lot more easy here.

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The hole from Hiashi's rotation is big, but you can see that if it was a full orb being formed, that hole would be a lot deeoer than it turned out to be.

What you literally are doing is nit-picking it does not matter if the whole was 100 feet deep or two feet deep what you can clearly see it is a crater with a down ward slop which proves my point

 

[unknownvillain1254]

This forum would not survive without nitpicking.

No actually that is what destroyed this forum people need to go off of facts if you go off of that you can be Lead wrong

 

[Guntah]

What you literally are doing is nit-picking it does not matter if the whole was 100 feet deep or two feet deep what you can clearly see it is a crater with a down ward slop which proves my point

No, it doesn't. Because I'm pretty sure you think the rotation is just a dome of chakra that surrounds the user. Not the case. There's chakra digging into the ground in between the user and the outer layer of chakra you see, digging into the earth. If someone miraculously got through Hiashi's outer layer of rotation, they wouldn't be able to walk up to the spinning Hiashi and punch him in the face, the chakra that he 's using to create that rotating dome extends from him to the outer layer we see, meaning they would still be damaged in some way. It is not a hollow orb of chakra, it has chakra rotating in between the user and the outer layer. Kind of a one-direction rasengan with the user as the center.

Now, if this was an orb, it would be a perfectly concave crater and the crater would be much deeper because the chakra would dig all around him. In reality, that's not the case. Only the bottom of the rotation is digging into the earth here, creating the shallow crater we see on my quoted post.

And thus, I rest my case.

 

[Guntah]

Correct , but likewise a push without a grind would be substantially weaker without the built-up force so it still would get easily defeated by Kaiten's much stronger repelling force , then when we add manga facts of it being able to literally remove and repel raw chakra , it only cements my claim imo.

Why would it not be stronger with the grinding? Against a human opponent, I can see it being not as effective, but that kind of force is already within the Rasengan, it doesn't need to build up to be blasted into the enemy, unlike the Rotation, which grows in power as its formed. As for the Rasengan's...well, just look at its clash against the Chidori. The Chidori should logically pierce straight through the Rasengan's rotating chakra if it had no force pulling it back and preventing it from doing so. Yet, not matter how many times the two jutsu clash, the Chidori is prevented from getting through it because the blast of its clashing jutsu, which pushes it back as soon as they clash.

Not really , The rotation will blast the rasengan far away and repel its chakra with great force and if anything naruto would be caught in his own explosion , but i doubt it would explode anyway but if it does it really irrelevant in my eyes.

Well, that's what I'm trying to prove otherwise.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

No, it doesn't. Because I'm pretty sure you think the rotation is just a dome of chakra that surrounds the user. Not the case. There's chakra digging into the ground in between the user and the outer layer of chakra you see, digging into the earth. If someone miraculously got through Hiashi's outer layer of rotation, they wouldn't be able to walk up to the spinning Hiashi and punch him in the face, the chakra that he 's using to create that rotating dome extends from him to the outer layer we see, meaning they would still be damaged in some way. It is not a hollow orb of chakra, it has chakra rotating in between the user and the outer layer. Kind of a one-direction rasengan with the user as the center.

Now, if this was an orb, it would be a perfectly concave crater and the crater would be much deeper because the chakra would dig all around him. In reality, that's not the case. Only the bottom of the rotation is digging into the earth here, creating the shallow crater we see on my quoted post.

And thus, I rest my case.

We must be having a misunderstanding what I am saying is when the rotation starts the user is emitting chakra from every part of his body that includes his ankles his feet his head everything and as he spends he completes the rotation by making a full circle which by the end of the rotation he has made a complete ball of chakra and at that point hyuga is levitating off of his own chakra

 

[Guntah]

We must be having a misunderstanding what I am saying is when the rotation starts the user is emitting chakra from every part of his body that includes his ankles his feet his head everything and as he spends he completes the rotation by making a full circle which by the end of the rotation he has made a complete ball of chakra and at that point hyuga is levitating off of his own chakra

I know. That's a fact, but the chakra is not strong enough to dig through the ground to that extent and make a perfect circle, thus the crater it creates is shallow. However it levitating the Hyuga off the ground, no, I don't think that's quite what happens here.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

I know. That's a fact, but the chakra is not strong enough to dig through the ground to that extent and make a perfect circle, thus the crater it creates is shallow. However it levitating the Hyuga off the ground, no, I don't think that's quite what happens here.

Then what is making the whole thing because everytime I look at this picture you can clearly see it is a complete circle before crater in the middle which means the chakra is being expel in a complete circle and let me change tactics can you prove that I'm wrong