Like I said, attrition and stamina is irrelevant unless Kakashi can actually last long enough to exploit the fact that he has more stamina than Sasuke, and he won't. Only reason Itachi can survive long enough to outlast is because he had MS to stop himself from actually being killed.
He didn't even dodge that blade, he got cut. All he did was prevent himself from being bisected like Zabuza planned, and Haku has no notable strength feat that'd make overpowering him a feat that'd put him above regular Sasuke let alone Sasuke w/ the Curse Seal. And no, he's never moved the same speed as Gated Gai. All they did was
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at their targets. So unless you think Kakashi w/o Shunshin can match Gai's top speed in the 6th Gate, Gai was moving nowhere near top speed. His feats against Obito don't even matter since Obito has no speed feat that makes him faster than Sasuke on his own, not to mention those feats had little to do with speed and more to do with his skill. Not to mention that Obito wasn't in top condition and wanted to let Kakashi win in the first place. Evading Atsugai isn't any kind of feat either when he is confirmed by the databook and by feats to be slower than Base Sasuke during that arc, let alone CS Sasuke, so unless you think someone slower than Sasuke is going to evade all of his attacks this point doesn't work either. All Itachi evaded anyway was Chidori after the Katon feint, and the Rigged Shuriken. So not sure how evading that means that Kakashi evades everything Sasuke has got. And that wasn't even close combat either.
And no, he doesn't. Not even close. Sasuke is >=Kakashi in speed in base, Curse Mark is a large boost as shown during his battle against Naruto. A large large boost. CM2 is another large boost in power. Kakashi can try clone feints, but against someone who is easily faster than him and will expect his clone feints and has plenty of experience handling the clone game due to fighting Naruto on more than one occasion, it's safe to say that he gets murked.
Might be my last reply simply because I don't really enjoy extensive debating anymore.
With the exception of Orochimaru's interference, the only time Itachi relied on his MS to save himself was against the Katon (which he should of been able to avoid, like all the others) and Kirin. That is only one, maybe two, occasions throughout the duration of the fight. Had he been actually serious, Sasuke would of been dead along time ago. Completely forgot to mention the fact that Itachi did not just outlast Hebi Sasuke, he also had to fight and defeat Orochimaru as well. Only makes matters look worse for Sasuke in front of a guy with even more stamina then sick MS spamming Itachi.
You're just dismissing all of Kakashi's feats and saying Hebi Sasuke's are superior without even providing any. What makes base Hebi Sasuke superior in all these categories...? I want to see his feats. Deidara could avoid his shunshin. And he couldn't physically do anything to Sick/near blind Itachi in CQC.
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Here we have Itachi; caught in mid-air completely defenseless, near blind, sick, injured, and Sasuke couldn't even hit him. How is this extremely impaired Itachi somehow superior to war-arc Kakashi in anything at all? Like, are you implying that Itachi under these conditions >>> war-arc Kakashi? I don't see how this could possibly be claimed. Kakashi damn near child molests Hebi Sasuke, without the use of CM.
In regards to the feats I presented... You have someone attempting to restrain you. Kakashi overpowered his restraints, as well as 100lbs or so of his bodyweight attempting to resist his very own movements, and did it all so fast from point blank range of being bisected by a huge blade. That's a strength feat. Sick Itachi, who couldn't be at his top physical condition, easily broke loose from Sasukes grasp [
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]. On the flip side, Itachi couldn't break out of Kakashis grasp [
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]. Though, Itachi was only at 30% his capacity, this was still an early shippuden version of Kakashi. And your counter example with Gai and Kakashi isn't comparable. In the scan you presented, they weren't dashing, they made they're first step and clashed with the V2 Jins. Kakashi and Gai were shown standing still on the top panel, while the V2 Jins were already charging within like 5 meters distance. By the time they took a step forward, they were already clashing, as I stated. In the scan I presented, they were moving at comparable speeds. Gai entered while attacking Obito, and Kakashi entered by grabbing Naruto. There wasn't any noticeable difference in speed from which they both came from.
With the exception of Orochimaru's interference, the only time Itachi relied on his MS to save himself was against the Katon (which he should of been able to avoid, like all the others) and Kirin. That is only one, maybe two, occasions throughout the duration of the fight. Had he been actually serious, Sasuke would of been dead along time ago. Completely forgot to mention the fact that Itachi did not just outlast Hebi Sasuke, he also had to fight and defeat Orochimaru as well. Only makes matters look worse for Sasuke in front of a guy with even more stamina then sick MS spamming Itachi.
If Itachi could've just kept dancing around Sasuke's attacks then he wouldn't have bothered to counter, he would've dodged like he did the other two attacks. Had he been serious Sasuke would've been dead along time ago, I agree, but due to MS and not his 3-Tomoe set of abilities.
You're just dismissing all of Kakashi's feats and saying Hebi Sasuke's are superior without even providing any. What makes base Hebi Sasuke superior in all these categories...? I want to see his feats. Deidara could avoid his shunshin. He couldn't physically do anything to Sick/near blind Itachi in CQC.
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Here we have Itachi; caught in mid-air completely defenseless, near blind, sick, injured, and Sasuke couldn't even hit him. How is this extremely impaired Itachi somehow superior to war-arc Kakashi in anything at all? Like, are you implying that Itachi under these conditions >>> war-arc Kakashi? I don't see how this could possibly be claimed. Kakashi damn near child molests Hebi Sasuke, without the use of CM.
Itachi never engaged Sasuke in CQC so I have no idea what you are talking about. All Itachi did was evade 2 of Sasuke's attacks, fail to match his Katon then MS came in and everything after that isn't CQC either. So unless you are arguing that Kakashi runs from Sasuke the entire fight, the match becomes CQC and he ends up getting killed.
-They are equal in speed as per the Databook. Add Sharingan and they are equal again. Sasuke has better Shunshin feats and he has Curse Mark thus he is automatically far faster than Kakashi unless the databook stats are false, which there is no reason to believe they are.
-Sasuke is equal in strength to him in Base. Add Curse Mark which bolsters physical strength and he's far stronger.
You haven't even provided any good feats for Kakashi. Stuff like Zabuza's blade (which he still got hit by) and overpowering Haku don't put him above CM Sasuke and I shouldn't have to explain why. He's shown no strength increase from the last databook score that'd put him far above Base Sasuke so there's no reason for me to dig further for more strength feats.
And stop using this Itachi logic, it's bad. Itachi evaded 2 attacks from Sasuke, and had to try and overpower the third. Itachi being able to evade Sasuke's attacks outside of CQC doesn't mean that he'd do the same in close combat nor does it mean Kakashi would do the same in close combat. All you have shown is that Kakashi can evade Sasuke's attacks if he tries to strictly escape, but even then Itachi was forced to attack with Katon. Lol really claiming that Kakashi molests Base Sasuke, based on Itachi dodging 2 attacks? Where is the CQC performance? Because without it all you have is Kakashi being able to dodge a few of Sasuke's attacks, which isn't surprising.
In regards to the feats I presented... You have someone attempting to restrain you. Kakashi overpowered his restraints, as well as 100lbs or so of his bodyweight attempting to resist his very own movements, and did it all so fast from point blank range of being bisected by a huge blade. That's a strength feat. Sick Itachi, who couldn't be at his top physical condition, easily broke loose from Sasukes grasp [
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]. On the flip side, Itachi couldn't break out of Kakashis grasp [
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]. Though, Itachi was only at 30% his capacity, this was still an early shippuden version of Kakashi. And your counter example with Gai and Kakashi isn't comparable. In the scan you presented, they weren't dashing, they made they're first step and clashed with the V2 Jins. Kakashi and Gai were shown standing still on the top panel, while the V2 Jins were already charging within like 5 meters distance. By the time they took a step forward, they were already clashing, as I stated. In the scan I presented, they were moving at comparable speeds. Gai entered while attacking Obito, and Kakashi entered by grabbing Naruto. There wasn't any noticeable difference in speed from which they both came from.
Like I told you, overpowering Haku of all people is not a feat no matter how you slice it. The only thing you have is pulling Haku's bodyweight back with him, but a Ninja doing that to someone who only weighs 100 pounds isn't a feat. Ninja have superhuman strength. An exhausted and almost empty Sasuke can punch the bigger Deidara
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far away, so mentioning this feat isn't going to help you here.
Itachi broke free from Sasuke holding his wrist. Kakashi's grip is obviously more well placed thus he can use more strength than Sasuke can simply holding his wrists with his own hand. And like you said, that's 30% Itachi. It being an early version of Kakashi doesn't matter when Kakashi has shown no strength boost let alone a strength boost that'd excuse the fact that that feat was only against a 30% Itachi. Not to mention that was a Genjutsu, not real life. Then let's throw in the fact that Itachi's sickness is irrelevant as:
-He's always been that sick in Part 2, yet his score is still rated near the level of healthy people like Kakashi and Sasuke.
-His sickness isn't going to hinder his abilities unless he exerts himself so much that his stamina drops, as shown when Tsukuyomi was broken and he got slower from that point on. Itachi had done nothing at that point to exert himself so there's no reason why his strength would be so much lower that you'd have a point here.
And no. Lol
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Kakashi is around 1.6 something meters tall. That distance isn't 5 meters. It's not even up to 3 meters. They simply dashed at the Jins who were coming straight for them and engaged in CQC, not sure how any of that implies that Shunshin was used. It shows the opposite. Kakashi has not, and will not ever keep up with 6G Gai's speed. And that's Kakashi matching 5G Gai. Whether they used Shunshin is unknown as they entered from off panel, so you can't even use this as a feat. If I used people entering from off panel and arriving at the same time as any kind of feat I'd be saying that the the Hokage outside of Minato are all around the same speed since they got to the battlefield at the same time.
Kakashi's lightining blade is called like that because he cut a lightning bolt with it. He cuts Kirin
jk
I don't think Sasuke has time to prep it. He has to waste a lot of fire to form it, and he'd waste a lot of chakra. If Kakashi charges at him during Sasuke's prep time then it's over
Kakashi's lightining blade is called like that because he cut a lightning bolt with it. He cuts Kirin
jk
I don't think Sasuke has time to prep it. He has to waste a lot of fire to form it, and he'd waste a lot of chakra. If Kakashi charges at him during Sasuke's prep time then it's over
He doesn't need more katon to survive while flying if he flying up enough out of kakashi range .
Answering your question ,I think he can do that if his objective was to set kirin from the beginning.
I did forget Sasuke using that skill lol but anyway no, even Hebi Sasuke was the onlyversion of him that felt capable of some tactical reasoning, Kakashi is the strategy itself. Zabuza was also stronger and had better reflexes than Kakashi, but he got his ass kicked thrice. Also when Kakashi and Sasuke briefly clashed after the death of Danzo (and that was MS Sasuke) there hasn't been a single cm2 of the Uchiha's face that didn't taste the fists of the Copy Ninja
I did forget Sasuke using that skill lol but anyway no, even Hebi Sasuke was the onlyversion of him that felt capable of some tactical reasoning, Kakashi is the strategy itself. Zabuza was also stronger and had better reflexes than Kakashi, but he got his ass kicked thrice. Also when Kakashi and Sasuke briefly clashed after the death of Danzo (and that was MS Sasuke) there hasn't been a single cm2 of the Uchiha's face that didn't taste the fists of the Copy Ninja
That was a blind, exhausted, Curse Mark Less Sasuke, who was still trading blows with Kakashi. This only proves Sasuke is capable of outclassing Kakashi in cqc.
That was a blind, exhausted, Curse Mark Less Sasuke, who was still trading blows with Kakashi. This only proves Sasuke is capable of outclassing Kakashi in cqc.
No, he got blind during this fight, not before. And however I'm not arguing that Kakashi is stronger than Sasuke: he isn't. Only, he can use his abilities way better
I did forget Sasuke using that skill lol but anyway no, even Hebi Sasuke was the onlyversion of him that felt capable of some tactical reasoning, Kakashi is the strategy itself. Zabuza was also stronger and had better reflexes than Kakashi, but he got his ass kicked thrice.
and how dos this matter here.Hebi sasuke is a tactical opponent himself
Also when Kakashi and Sasuke briefly clashed after the death of Danzo (and that was MS Sasuke) there hasn't been a single cm2 of the Uchiha's face that didn't taste the fists of the Copy Ninja
I did forget Sasuke using that skill lol but anyway no, even Hebi Sasuke was the onlyversion of him that felt capable of some tactical reasoning, Kakashi is the strategy itself. Zabuza was also stronger and had better reflexes than Kakashi, but he got his ass kicked thrice. Also when Kakashi and Sasuke briefly clashed after the death of Danzo (and that was MS Sasuke) there hasn't been a single cm2 of the Uchiha's face that didn't taste the fists of the Copy Ninja
Bold: Kakashi has better reflexes than Zabuza by a long gap. Zabuza only kept up because their abilities kind of countered eachother. Kakashi couldn't use his sharingan properly, but it's pre-cog was enough to let him react to Zabuza's surprise attacks
Kakashi wins. The only thing Sasuke has over him is the summon advantage, but it could be controlled with sharingan
- Physically stronger(sent him flying several meters with a punch despite blocking, also the Itachi-Kakashi/Sasuke/Kakashi comparison shows better grip)
- Better close combat skills(seen on the bridge)
- Stronger raiton techniques(raikiri > chidori)
- Better ninjutsu variety
- Even in terms of durability, Kakashi could take town bustings shinra tensei(something that could KO physical powerhouses like the Akimichi clan)
- Better support ninjutsu and battle adaptability with clones
Kakashi wins. The only thing Sasuke has over him is the summon advantage, but it could be controlled with sharingan
- Physically stronger(sent him flying several meters with a punch despite blocking, also the Itachi-Kakashi/Sasuke/Kakashi comparison shows better grip)
- Better close combat skills(seen on the bridge)
- Stronger raiton techniques(raikiri > chidori)
- Better ninjutsu variety
- Even in terms of durability, Kakashi could take town bustings shinra tensei(something that could KO physical powerhouses like the Akimichi clan)
- Better support ninjutsu and battle adaptability with clones
-Databook says otherwise. So I'm not sure why you people keep claiming he's physically stronger than Base Sasuke let alone Curse Seal Sasuke. Naruto can send Base Sasuke flying meters away with a punch yet they were shown to be physically equal with each other, so this comparison doesn't even make sense. How far Sasuke goes when hit has nothing to do with his physical strength. The only major factors are Kakashi's strength and Sasuke's weight. That whole grip thing also makes zero sense when Sasuke's grip isn't positioned in a way that'd let him hold his opponent as well as Kakashi could.
-What? Are you really using Kakashi being unable to blindside a near blind and exhausted Sasuke as evidence that Kakashi is superior to a healthy Sasuke w/ the Curse Mark? They didn't even engage in close combat outside of the anime, where Kakashi was being matched by Sasuke w/o Sharingan, with shit vision and exhausted.
-Uh, no. There's no feat that puts Kakashi's Raikiri above Sasuke's Chidori, at least to the point where the Curse Mark boost wouldn't push his Raikiri far above.
-Doesn't matter as it doesn't let him beat Sasuke. Same goes for support Ninjutsu and clones.
-Lol do you even know what a town busting attack is? Deva's regular Shinra Tensei is nowhere near town busting. Not to mention ST does no real damage if you don't collide with something afterwards. Not to mention ST is the same thing that left Kakashi buried under a bunch of rubble almost incapacitated, so where is "tanked" coming from? Any version of CS Sasuke is more durable than Kakashi, CS2 being far more durable unless you think Kakashi can survive a direct hit from C2.
