Hashirama and "Prime" Hiruzen. Shedding light on both fandoms

[jorgelius]

okay, oro stated if hiruzen was 10years younger he could rip whole soul.. but could not at old age, that gives a hint how much chakra hiruzen had, to me it seems he had outstanding chakra greater than any shinobi in his era as hokage, and was quite good at chakra control so that make him strong as kisame & itachi duo (no MS) so truly strong shinobi but hashirama have plaCE OF HIS own ability to suppress bijuu's and even use them is enough to clearly point difference in hiruzen and hashirama

 

[Vandenre1ch]

okay, oro stated if hiruzen was 10years younger he could rip whole soul.. but could not at old age, that gives a hint how much chakra hiruzen had, to me it seems he had outstanding chakra greater than any shinobi in his era as hokage, and was quite good at chakra control so that make him strong as kisame & itachi duo (no MS) so truly strong shinobi but hashirama have plaCE OF HIS own ability to suppress bijuu's and even use them is enough to clearly point difference in hiruzen and hashirama

Hiruzen is the perfect example of "old age a b1tch." He was physiclly exhausted after his taijutsu bout with the edos and the anbus said it was pathetic compared to his prime. So logiclly speaking, everything that put him at a disadvantage in that fight would be gone if he was younger.

 

[thegame]

You shouldn't compare Naruto to Hashirama.

Hashirama would be able to use it to the same scale as edo Madara but obviously it'll take a lot of chakra from him. But that's it really takes. Besides, having the sage's body gifts you with immense chakra reserves.

Why not? Naruto has the same strong life force, and if anyone, we know a lot about regarding chakra levels, it's Naruto. I know he used the fox chakra, but still that is part of him now. So it's one of the best possible comparisons. Plus it was just a clone

And no, you have no knowledge of Hashiramas chakra levels being above Edo Madaras, since edo Madara is actually Hashirama+EMS Madara, IMO, it seems more like his level would be above Hashirama. The scale of his jutsus, hte size of his perfect susanoo, etc.

hiruzen wasn't host and would have no chance to control kyubi so not sure what your point was, + thanks guy hirudora mokuton dragon effect loosened, so your point is invalid everyway, and about scale and stamina he overpowered kyuubi (full might) and madara, other have eyes of true power of elder son and other endless amount of chakra so pretty safe to assume he can keep scale of his jutsus insanely strong pretty long time..

All this is just your assumptions, I can't use that for anything. The first part, yeah Hiru wasn't a host....... That isn't the point. The point is that Hashiramas hype all comes from Madara, and has nothing to do with Hiru. Because he beat Madara with the kuybi, but in reality, he just bound the kuybi with his wood dragon, which was amplified by his necklace. A power that allowed him to become hokage.
So actually it was not even smart of Madara to use the kuybi against him, since Hashirama is what we could call anti-kuybi weapon. Just like water beats fire
I don't know what this has to do with their last fight, I never referred to it, but yeah it loosened, so what is your point?
And no it isn't safe to assume he could spam these levels of jutsu carelessly. EMS Madara was defeated almost instantly by Gaara+Naruto+Onoki. So Hashirama wouldn't really need jutsu at this scale to defeat him.

Hiruzen accomplished his GOAL in defending the village yes. What im referring to is the overall battle. Both Hiruzen and Hashirama has some unknown things about them but Hiruzen fans use that part 1 fight as an example to give him hype while Hashirama fans just bluntly say Hashirama>Hiruzen with no real explanation. Thats what Im generally trying to do. Analyze the Hiruzen-Oro fight and give a intelligent reason why Hashirama MAY BE better than Hiruzen. Hiruzen couldnt keep up with the two Edos OVERALL and was forced to commit suicide but that gives speculation and wonder to the strength of Prime Hiruzen and the real Hashirama Senju.

So what? Wtf is this? If you are fan of a character, and you have opinions about him being stronger, so be it. You can't change it. You know the sole reason, why Kishi never said, who is stronger than the other? Because a fan base would have nothing to discuss then. You like characters for many things, and it's great that we can debate this subject along with many others.

I can totally understand fans who uses that fight, since it's the only fight, which Hiruzen is in, and really it was fcking epic fight, and IMO top 3 of fights in part 1.

Also saying he couldn't keep up with the edos... This is actually silly, name 1 other shinobi from Konoha that could have done the same. Sealing 2 edos and forced Oro out of the village. Besides Hiruzen couldn't escape the barrier. It didn't matter if he sealed them in some other way, if he couldn't defeat Orochimaru afterwards, he could undo the seal. Also something you obviously hasn't thought about. The seal Hiru used also seals the user. So practically he also made sure that Oro wouldn't revive him in edo tensei, and make him attack the village. So your argument is invalid. Hiruzen could have had tons of possibilities, but he took the one, which Oro didn't know, which is probably the other main reason, why he used it.

 

[jorgelius]

Hiruzen is the perfect example of "old age a b1tch." He was physiclly exhausted after his taijutsu bout with the edos and the anbus said it was pathetic compared to his prime. So logiclly speaking, everything that put him at a disadvantage in that fight would be gone if he was younger.

yeah, that makes him strong as orochimaru u should be proud oro have some serious powers as do prime hiruzen, but oro has pointed out sharingan is too much and oro had lot's of experiments how to harness hashi's power abilities might which show oro is far inferior to first

 

[thegame]

Right but wrong at the same time. He wouldnt have unlimited chakra or powerful jutsu, but Hashirama CAN use it at that scale considering the fact that Madara states him and the 1st would change the landscapes completely .

This is true, redrawing maps, may just be due to seas, lakes, or whatever holes they could make. Hashirama would place a new forest, Madara would remove a mountain. Still it wouldn't take more than a few uses of jutsu at that scale, before this would be the case.

But then again, this doesn't mean Hashirama could spit out jutsu of this scale, it could just mean that Hashirama would force Madara to use Perfect Susanoo to its full potential. If you were to put up a better fight than the kages, the landscapes would need to be redrawn, just because of that.

 

[MickNerks]

Hiruzen used a few technigues and had a short taijutsu bout and was gasping for air. The only technigues he showed were fire style, earth style and shriken cloning which were all tanked and rendered useless.

Itachi was called a genius for mastering the sharigan and he'd lose to alot of people. Atleast we seen Itachi back it up but Hiruzen hasnt done anything.

Its not hiruzens fault we havent seen him in his prime. Its Kishi's. Kishi gave us enough evidence to understand what he was capable of. You just fail to adhere to it.

@MickNerks, my quote absolutely failed so I'm going to do it like this.

First of all. Secret family techniques are limited to only their mastery and usage. Please, are you trying to tell me that Hiruzen has bugs all over his body? Or has a pet who can transform into him? Or can use expansion jutsu. You made the mistake of thinking these are everyday, normal jutsu. These jutsu do not require elements, meaning his "mastery" over the elements is rendered useless. And no, Kakashi and Nagato can not use those jutsu, where did you get that from?...

He doesnt need bugs all over his body if he uses "insect gathering technique", which uses chakra to bring bugs to his location. But besides that, clan techniques are taught to clan members, it is not something they are born with, so it is possible for someone outside the clan to learn them, its just not likely.

I said kakashi and nagato could learn clan techniques because nagato was said to be able to use any technique he desired because of his rinnegan, which means he could do clan techs. kakashi as the copycat ninja could also copy and learn the tech's as he does that with most the justu he knows.

The thing about Hiruzen fans is that they cling on to baseless hype. He has shown nothing which could support his superiority over the first. I'm sorry but, flower tree world solos. And fine, let's say for arguments sake he was able to use every jutsu in the leaf, what use does this have? Hashirama is able to create a bloody forest. Hiruzen does not have techniques which could par this. He is heavily outmatched.

Enma easily destroyed mokuton, sooo i wouldnt say that hiruzen doesnt have a counter for it. Flowering tree world isnt effective if the flower is destroyed. Hiruzen has powerful fire techs capable of destroying said flower.

Its redundant to call his hype baseless becuase all hype is baseless. If the hype wasnt baseless then it would be known as fact and not hype. If you choose not to follow his hype that is one thing, but to insinuate that another shinobi who is basically only hype as well is stronger just because he is ur favorite is not appropriate. You cant bring me one scrap of evidence to prove hiruzen in his prime was not as powerful as he was said of being.
[/QUOTE]

Let's look at their hype for a minute shall we?

- Madara scolds the five kage countless times, claiming that compared to the first, they're nothing. And remember, Madara is one of, if the most arrogant characters in the manga. I know for a fact that he is able to obliterate Hashirama now but why does he continue to praise him? Even claiming he's the only one that could stop him?

- Kabuto stated his power, like SO6P was considered a fairytale... Are you kidding me? A fairy tale. Iruka had absolutely no knowledge on the first and the rumour that his power was a fairy tale could be one of the primary reasons why Hiruzen is praised so highly. It's a new generation man, no one from Hashirama's generation is still alive. Just Hiruzen.

- Madara stated his healing abilities were unparalleled. Now imagine Tsunade's immense prowess in medical nin... Now imagine someone surpassing that. Boss.

This is only regarding what i bolded. This is nonesense. Iruka knows fully what hashirama was capable of, for it is the history of konoha. He was in the middle of giving a lesson on the previous kages when he mentioned the strength of the 3rd, so to say he knew nothing of the 1st is ridiculus.

Listen to what you said, "no one from his generation was still alive". So if that is true then madara's statements shouldnt be held with any weight because he's never seen hiruzen in his prime. He knows nothing of hiruzens strength. So following his words doesnt really mean anything.

- Feats (something Hiruzen doesn't have): Defeats Madara and Kurama, had five Bijuu's and led the Senju clan to become the most feared and respected clan.

Hiruzen:

- Called the professor for mastering every jutsu in the leaf
- Revered to as the god of shinobi
- His prime was considered to be much stronger than his old self.

In terms of hype, I'd say they're equal, or Hiruzen takes it. But that's just that, hype. You can't prove Hiruzen's prime to be anything more than more chakra and mobility, and I can't prove he couldn't use all those techniques. But it's obvious, Hashirama's feats displayed would take out Hiruzen. The Konoha jutsu can't phase him. It would also help if he had some feats...

Are you serious about hiruzen not having feats. smh. Once again a foolish statement.

Hiruzen FEAT

- Defeated Orochimaru, Edo Hashirama, and Edo tobirama 3vs1. (that feat trumps hashirama's madara and kyuubi)


Hiruzen HYPE
- Mastered every jutsu in the leaf
- In his prime was the strongest shinobi in history, revered as the GOD of SHINOBI
- In his Prime mastered EVERY form of shinobi combat
- At old age was said to still be stronger than 3rd raikage, Muu, onoki, 3rd kazekage, 4th kazekage, A, and both mizukages.

Hiruzen has great feats and hype. Dont downplay him

 

[jorgelius]

All this is just your assumptions, I can't use that for anything. The first part, yeah Hiru wasn't a host....... That isn't the point. The point is that Hashiramas hype all comes from Madara, and has nothing to do with Hiru. Because he beat Madara with the kuybi, but in reality, he just bound the kuybi with his wood dragon, which was amplified by his necklace. A power that allowed him to become hokage.
So actually it was not even smart of Madara to use the kuybi against him, since Hashirama is what we could call anti-kuybi weapon. Just like water beats fire
I don't know what this has to do with their last fight, I never referred to it, but yeah it loosened, so what is your point?
And no it isn't safe to assume he could spam these levels of jutsu carelessly. EMS Madara was defeated almost instantly by Gaara+Naruto+Onoki. So Hashirama wouldn't really need jutsu at this scale to defeat him.


instantly ? you found this out How? example sasuke could smash that dragon in 17 parts with enton kagutsuchi, there's no proof madara have amaterasu AHHH.. to next argument idk how many times madara and hashi met but madara know every mokuton he so far used so if they met once, hashi is able fight LIKe large scale jutsu's are just his attacks that how great he was..

yeah it's true SG naruto gaara oonoki group oF JONinS forced him which rinnegan pretty fast which means he wanted use hashirama's jutsus which are stronger/ more suitable take out group of any ninja .... idk what im babling about anymore, my theory about hiruzen is most likely accurate,,

mic what your saying is total bs, i mean that hiruzen katon is strong enough to break mokuton attacks, i understand your reasoning threes burn but hashi make three giving life with his KKG is sure as hell going to burn by lame katons, madara's katon's didn't work his threes is strong enough to cover TBB christ sake, amaterasu is only katon which have effect,,, and enma really broke couple *don't know word* but since edo hashi was forced to fight i think like everyone else he didn't use his jutsus to full extent,, enma is cool but i doubt he make difference even in that fast match enma exhausted

 

[Vandenre1ch]

thegame-So what? Wtf is this? If you are fan of a character, and you have opinions about him being stronger, so be it. You can't change it. You know the sole reason, why Kishi never said, who is stronger than the other? Because a fan base would have nothing to discuss then. You like characters for many things, and it's great that we can debate this subject along with many others.

I can totally understand fans who uses that fight, since it's the only fight, which Hiruzen is in, and really it was fcking epic fight, and IMO top 3 of fights in part 1.

Also saying he couldn't keep up with the edos... This is actually silly, name 1 other shinobi from Konoha that could have done the same. Sealing 2 edos and forced Oro out of the village. Besides Hiruzen couldn't escape the barrier. It didn't matter if he sealed them in some other way, if he couldn't defeat Orochimaru afterwards, he could undo the seal. Also something you obviously hasn't thought about. The seal Hiru used also seals the user. So practically he also made sure that Oro wouldn't revive him in edo tensei, and make him attack the village. So your argument is invalid. Hiruzen could have had tons of possibilities, but he took the one, which Oro didn't know, which is probably the other main reason, why he used it.

That fight was epic. Hiruzen couldnt keep up with the edos at first as they knocked him on his ass and tired him out. Hiruzen then stepped his game up and did VERY well until Hashi used Mokuton can trapped him. When Hiruzen summomed Enma he started knocking the edos on their asses but couldnt kill them. RDS was the only to stop them. What if Hiruzen fought the Hashirama and Tobirama we know right now alive and full control of their actions? Hiruzen would lose pretty bad. Fans say Prime Hiruzen can defeat Hashirama amd Tobirama at the same time when Old Hiruzen couldnt stop a "weaker" Hashi and Tobir without killing himself. Its also wrong to say Hashirama>Hiruzen just like that. Hashirama would win but not easily.

 

[SuperSayin]

the hiruzen calvary has arrived! haha

 

[2big]

I swear the Title should be why Hiruzen fans are queers and love to lick peniiiiissssssss

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Its not hiruzens fault we havent seen him in his prime. Its Kishi's. Kishi gave us enough evidence to understand what he was capable of. You just fail to adhere to it.

I adhere it very well. You just fail to notice.


Are you serious about hiruzen not having feats. smh. Once again a foolish statement.

Hiruzen FEAT

- Defeated Orochimaru, Edo Hashirama, and Edo tobirama 3vs1. (that feat trumps hashirama's madara and kyuubi)


Hiruzen HYPE
- Mastered every jutsu in the leaf
- In his prime was the strongest shinobi in history, revered as the GOD of SHINOBI
- In his Prime mastered EVERY form of shinobi combat
- At old age was said to still be stronger than 3rd raikage, Muu, onoki, 3rd kazekage, 4th kazekage, A, and both mizukages.

Hiruzen has great feats and hype. Dont downplay him

I for one is not downplaying him and what you said is foolish. You say Hiruzen defeated Edo Hashi, Edo Tobirama and Oro in a 3v1 fight? Real foolish. Oro made Edo Hashi and Tobirama fight Hiruzen using only taijustu an 2 techniques each and Hiruzen resorted to RDS. No one is actually downgrading him. You are just giving him too much credit.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

Its not hiruzens fault we havent seen him in his prime. Its Kishi's. Kishi gave us enough evidence to asses what he is capable of. You just fail to adhere to it.



He doesnt need bugs all over his body if he uses "insect gathering technique", which uses chakra to bring bugs to his location. But besides that, clan techniques are taught to clan members, it is not something they are born with, so it is possible for someone outside the clan to learn them, its just not likely.

I said kakashi and nagato could learn clan techniques because nagato was said to be able to use any technique he desired because of his rinnegan, which means he could do clan techs. kakashi as the copycat ninja could also copy and learn the tech's as he does that with most the justu he knows.





Enma easily destroyed mokuton, sooo i wouldnt say that hiruzen doesnt have a counter for it. Flowering tree world isnt effective if the flower is destroyed. Hiruzen has powerful fire techs capable of destroying said flower.

Its redundant to call his hype baseless becuase all hype is baseless. If the hype wasnt baseless then it would be known as fact and not hype. If you choose not to follow his hype that is one thing, but to insinuate that another shinobi who is basically only hype as well is stronger just because he is ur favorite is not appropriate. You cant bring me one scrap of evidence to prove hiruzen in his prime was not as powerful as he was said of being.




This is only regarding what i bolded. This is nonesense. Iruka knows fully what hashirama was capable of, for it is the history of konoha. He was in the middle of giving a lesson on the previous kages when he mentioned the strength of the 3rd, so to say he knew nothing of the 1st is ridiculus.

Listen to what you said, "no one from his generation was still alive". So if that is true then madara's statements shouldnt be held with any weight because he's never seen hiruzen in his prime. He knows nothing of hiruzens strength. So following his words doesnt really mean anything.




Are you serious about hiruzen not having feats. smh. Once again a foolish statement.

Hiruzen FEAT

- Defeated Orochimaru, Edo Hashirama, and Edo tobirama 3vs1. (that feat trumps hashirama's madara and kyuubi)


Hiruzen HYPE
- Mastered every jutsu in the leaf
- In his prime was the strongest shinobi in history, revered as the GOD of SHINOBI
- In his Prime mastered EVERY form of shinobi combat
- At old age was said to still be stronger than 3rd raikage, Muu, onoki, 3rd kazekage, 4th kazekage, A, and both mizukages.

Hiruzen has great feats and hype. Dont downplay him

If you call committing suicide while taking the person to the grave with you impressive, then that's you. I don't see anything special about that.

Actually, he was around when Hiruzen was hokage, he was just under a cave. Zetsu is one of, if not the most effective spy's, so you never know man. And you can't say his statements don't hold weight, because that isn't true. This is Madara Uchiha, praising Hashirama Senju. Hiruzen had nothing to do with my statement. My point is, you can't go around saying Hiruzen would beat Hashirama, when his prime talk is all hype. And understand, we've at least witnessed Hashirama's prowess through Madara. To say he would best Hashirama just because of some hype is foolish, I have nothing left to say on this topic.

Just a little something I picked up on... Hiruzen fanboys always like to use the power scaling difference as an excuse, when I could argue that Hashirama not being relevant to part 1 is why he got no hype what so ever. But just look at the current manga, week by week, Madara's shows us something new. Something he got from Hashirama himself. And by the way, I'm not saying Iruka doesn't know anything on the first, but I linked Kabuto's quote to it. Kabuto said people considered Hashiramas' strength to be a myth right? If that's so, then why should people take his prowess so seriously? Hiruzen is the longest reigning hokage, and the most respected. This is why he's praised so much, well a factor of it anyways.

As for clans secret jutsu. I think you're being a bit too desperate here... it has to be taught, you're right about that. But you really think Hiruzen went to the Aburama clan and got taught jutsu? Are you serious? The almighty lord third get's taught jutsu by the Aburame clan? Regarding your Kakashi and Nagato statement. They're irrelevant. The Rinnegan allows Nagato to master all five ELEMENTS. Secret clan jutsu doesn't require elements. And Kakashi can't copy everything...

I call Hiruzen's hype baseless for one reason and one reason only. HE HAS NO FEATS TO BACK IT UP. Hashirama has a combination of both! Understand this. We've seen his jutsu, and they're OP as ****.

Enma and Hiruzen would get knocked out before he can use fire jutsu. Oh and here's a little fun fact! to blow fire, you have to breath in, and once he does that, it's goodnight Hiruzen! And don't make me laugh, that petty B rank jutsu can't harm a F'ing forest for shit, Enma would just get suppressed.

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

It also seems people forgot the databook said Amaterasu is as hot as the sun :rofl:

It's hyperbole! Writers use this technique to exaggerate to the maximum!

 

[MickNerks]

I for one is not downplaying him and what you said is foolish. You say Hiruzen defeated Edo Hashi, Edo Tobirama and Oro in a 3v1 fight? Real foolish. Oro made Edo Hashi and Tobirama fight Hiruzen using only taijustu an 2 techniques each and Hiruzen resorted to RDS. No one is actually downgrading him. You are just giving him too much credit.

How is that foolish.

He did defeat oro, hash, and tobi. Whether they used all there techs or not, he was still able to stop them. He feat is that he beat oro and 2 previous kages.

 

[jorgelius]

one of the best fights yeah, but it is said nidaime made edo tensei orochimaru completed it, and kabuto perfected it,, as mindless puppet who probably had some amount of self control or could use mokuton much as orochimaru gave him chakra,

i think true power of prime hiruzen was will of fire, never gave up additude and massive chakra reserve + good chakra control and element he could use, like i said itachi (no ms) + kisame level ninja and that is a lot.

 

[SuperSayin]

If you call committing suicide while taking the person to the grave with you impressive, then that's you. I don't see anything special about that.

Actually, he was around when Hiruzen was hokage, he was just under a cave. Zetsu is one of, if not the most effective spy's, so you never know man. And you can't say his statements don't hold weight, because that isn't true. This is Madara Uchiha, praising Hashirama Senju. Hiruzen had nothing to do with my statement. My point is, you can't go around saying Hiruzen would beat Hashirama, when his prime talk is all hype. And understand, we've at least witnessed Hashirama's prowess through Madara. To say he would best Hashirama just because of some hype is foolish, I have nothing left to say on this topic.

Just a little something I picked up on... Hiruzen fanboys always like to use the power scaling difference as an excuse, when I could argue that Hashirama not being relevant to part 1 is why he got no hype what so ever. But just look at the current manga, week by week, Madara's shows us something new. Something he got from Hashirama himself. And by the way, I'm not saying Iruka doesn't know anything on the first, but I linked Kabuto's quote to it. Kabuto said people considered Hashiramas' strength to be a myth right? If that's so, then why should people take his prowess so seriously? Hiruzen is the longest reigning hokage, and the most respected. This is why he's praised so much, well a factor of it anyways.

As for clans secret jutsu. I think you're being a bit too desperate here... it has to be taught, you're right about that. But you really think Hiruzen went to the Aburama clan and got taught jutsu? Are you serious? The almighty lord third get's taught jutsu by the Aburame clan? Regarding your Kakashi and Nagato statement. They're irrelevant. The Rinnegan allows Nagato to master all five ELEMENTS. Secret clan jutsu doesn't require elements. And Kakashi can't copy everything...

I call Hiruzen's hype baseless for one reason and one reason only. HE HAS NO FEATS TO BACK IT UP. Hashirama has a combination of both! Understand this. We've seen his jutsu, and they're OP as ****.

Enma and Hiruzen would get knocked out before he can use fire jutsu. Oh and here's a little fun fact! to blow fire, you have to breath in, and once he does that, it's goodnight Hiruzen! And don't make me laugh, that petty B rank jutsu can't harm a F'ing forest for shit, Enma would just get suppressed.

How come you are always assuming hiruzen will just start off with fire? you are underestimating him, "that petty B rank jutsu can't harm a F'ing forest for shit" LOL you forgot to mention that its fire and im pretty sure fire burns wood, and i'll say this again. It doesn't matter how powerful a technique, its how you use it. Just look at itachi shuriken prowess, he was able to blind all of nagato's summon with simple shuriken and why? because his skill with shuriken is top notch, aiming for the weak point.

 

[MickNerks]

If you call committing suicide while taking the person to the grave with you impressive, then that's you. I don't see anything special about that.

Let me ask you this. Have we seen Hashirama, tobirama, Hiruzen, or Minato being USED in this war??

no we havent, so by hiruzen sealing himself and previous kages in DRS he ensured that they could NEVER be used again in the future.

Actually, he was around when Hiruzen was hokage, he was just under a cave. Zetsu is one of, if not the most effective spy's, so you never know man. And you can't say his statements don't hold weight, because that isn't true. This is Madara Uchiha, praising Hashirama Senju. Hiruzen had nothing to do with my statement. My point is, you can't go around saying Hiruzen would beat Hashirama, when his prime talk is all hype. And understand, we've at least witnessed Hashirama's prowess through Madara. To say he would best Hashirama just because of some hype is foolish, I have nothing left to say on this topic.

I never said Hiruzen could beat hashirama. Hashirama Fanboys are the ones going around saying that he could beat hiruzen. All i am doing is backing up the mans hype as the strongest hokage during his prime. You've never seen hiruzen in his prime and to say that his hype doesnt count because hashirama has a feat is nonsense. Nothing given in current chapters ever suggest that hashirama is stronger than prime hiruzen.

Just a little something I picked up on... Hiruzen fanboys always like to use the power scaling difference as an excuse, when I could argue that Hashirama not being relevant to part 1 is why he got no hype what so ever. But just look at the current manga, week by week, Madara's shows us something new. Something he got from Hashirama himself. And by the way, I'm not saying Iruka doesn't know anything on the first, but I linked Kabuto's quote to it. Kabuto said people considered Hashiramas' strength to be a myth right? If that's so, then why should people take his prowess so seriously? Hiruzen is the longest reigning hokage, and the most respected. This is why he's praised so much, well a factor of it anyways.

Kabuto is one of the people who boasted on hiruzens strength in pt.1

And im still waiting for you to explain to me how just because someones strength is refered to as a fairy tale, that that makes them the strongest in the universe?? lol In my opinion God of shinobi is a way better title than fairy tale.

I call Hiruzen's hype baseless for one reason and one reason only. HE HAS NO FEATS TO BACK IT UP. Hashirama has a combination of both! Understand this. We've seen his jutsu, and they're OP as ****.

Enma and Hiruzen would get knocked out before he can use fire jutsu. Oh and here's a little fun fact! to blow fire, you have to breath in, and once he does that, it's goodnight Hiruzen! And don't make me laugh, that petty B rank jutsu can't harm a F'ing forest for shit, Enma would just get suppressed.

Hiruzen has one feat.

He single handedly stopped Orochimaru and 2 edo hokages from destroying the leaf. That is a feat!!!

 

[Exaar]

Yes. Hiruzen was called the strongest because he lived during the "modern era" where people actually witnessed his strength. Hashirama was considered a myth remember? All those who seen his power were dead or not known about.

You do know People who were alive during hashirama's time, were also alive during hiruzen's prime?.

So people around Hiruzen's age were also around during hashirama's time, yet he was still Given the Title of strongest Hokage/God of shinobi.
Unless people will try to tell me Everyone In Hashirama's time between the time of Hashirama/Tobirama's death and Hiruzen's prime.

Hiruzen had no choice but to use RDS because he wouldve lost horribly if he didnt. Why would he use a suicide technigue if he could beat them another way?

He Didn't have the chakra nor time to even attempt to seal them One by One, As you should know his chakra was piss poor, If he tried to seal them one at a time he would of died, Thats why he used RDS, Because he was old he was going to die no matter what he did, So he took them with him.

Yet the databooks state if he was 10 years younger (59, Still not his prime), the outcome of the fight might of been different, So if 10years would give hiruzen all that power, Imagin what being 20/30 years younger would give him

 

[Ace of the fire fist]

How come you are always assuming hiruzen will just start off with fire? you are underestimating him, "that petty B rank jutsu can't harm a F'ing forest for shit" LOL you forgot to mention that its fire and im pretty sure fire burns wood, and i'll say this again. It doesn't matter how powerful a technique, its how you use it. Just look at itachi shuriken prowess, he was able to blind all of nagato's summon with simple shuriken and why? because his skill with shuriken is top notch, aiming for the weak point.

Because that's the jutsu MickNerks said he'd use. I'm not getting into a shuriken debate either.

 

[TheSages456]

You do know People who were alive during hashirama's time, were also alive during hiruzen's prime?.

So people around Hiruzen's age were also around during hashirama's time, yet he was still Given the Title of strongest Hokage/God of shinobi.
Unless people will try to tell me Everyone In Hashirama's time between the time of Hashirama/Tobirama's death and Hiruzen's prime.



He Didn't have the chakra nor time to even attempt to seal them One by One, As you should know his chakra was piss poor, If he tried to seal them one at a time he would of died, Thats why he used RDS, Because he was old he was going to die no matter what he did, So he took them with him.

Yet the databooks state if he was 10 years younger (59, Still not his prime), the outcome of the fight might of been different, So if 10years would give hiruzen all that power, Imagin what being 20/30 years younger would give him

-assuming that everyone single ninja in the world knew about hashiramas full power despite not knowing about madaras.

-trying to argue against hashiramas canon fairytail status which voids anyone believing in his power.