On a website like this I'd expect ppl to be mad but given toph's abilities isn't limited to sand and she senses him at all times it makes sense why she won. The only argument you can make for garra is his sand speed but given tophs abilities she can sense what he does before he does it and guide it away from her. It's essentially aim dodging, a tactic used by toph on the regular.
On a website like this I'd expect ppl to be mad but given toph's abilities isn't limited to sand and she senses him at all times it makes sense why she won. The only argument you can make for garra is his sand speed but given tophs abilities she can sense what he does before he does it and guide it away from her. It's essentially aim dodging, a tactic used by toph on the regular.
Toph can only do that due to her being an earth bender and her opponents being benders as well. Toph cannot utilize this tech as Gaara only needs to make subtle movements to make sand move. Gaara can also control a ton more sand than Toph can control at oncce
Toph can only do that due to her being an earth bender and her opponents being benders as well. Toph cannot utilize this tech as Gaara only needs to make subtle movements to make sand move. Gaara can also control a ton more sand than Toph can control at oncce
Nope. It's not earth bender restricted, we know this because aang uses the same tactic on ozai in their final battle and against toph and katara in their practice.
Garra's larger quantities dosen't make up for toph's finesse. And sand attack he uses Can be shifted back to earth thus removing garra's control over it. Same goes for his gourd sand which believe it or not is controlled through magnetism.
Toph is using flay out telekinesis as all benders do and has gotten to the point where movement for it has become little to none.
She's like the earth bending version of ming hua/amon.
What makes it worse is that garra has to get his sand to surround toph to kill her whereas, toph can simply manipulate the sand that he carries around /covers himself with from the get go.
Really and truly if toph wanted to she could kill him with his own gourd sand.
Toph can only do that due to her being an earth bender and her opponents being benders as well. Toph cannot utilize this tech as Gaara only needs to make subtle movements to make sand move. Gaara can also control a ton more sand than Toph can control at oncce
Nope. It's not earth bender restricted, we know this because aang uses the same tactic on ozai in their final battle and against toph and katara in their practice.
Garra's larger quantities dosen't make up for toph's finesse. And sand attack he uses Can be shifted back to earth thus removing garra's control over it. Same goes for his gourd sand which believe it or not is controlled through magnetism.
Toph is using flay out telekinesis as all benders do and has gotten to the point where movement for it has become little to none.
She's like the earth bending version of ming hua/amon.
What makes it worse is that garra has to get his sand to surround toph to kill her whereas, toph can simply manipulate the sand that he carries around /covers himself with from the get go.
Really and truly if toph wanted to she could kill him with his own gourd sand.
Obviously not. Gaara can control the density of his sand, and Gaara forms solid objects with his sand. Therefore, whatever density trick Toph tries to do, Gaara can undo it. She tries to make the sand as dense as a rock, Gaara lowers it. Even pretending that Gaara couldn't have his sand resist earth bending, whatever Toph would only be able to turn it into an ordinary rock, which could be easily recrushed and added back into Gaara's arsenal.
Toph obviously can't deflect Gaara's sand either. Certainly not his massive sand attacks, which can block things like C3, or meteors in the Last. Even on lower amounts of sand, he could block 4 V3 susanoo swords.
You must be registered for see images
Need I remind you that a single V2 susanoo sword can obliterate pillars with mere shockwaves?
You must be registered for see images
So Gaara can block a level above this 4X over. That's what it takes to break his guard. Show me any feat Toph does comparable to this with the equivalent amount of earth. She can't. Gaara has more force behind his manipulation, so he'll overcome any attempts to deflect it. At best, Toph can only slow Gaara's attacks down, but then she can't use bending on earth to block since she'd be focusing on Gaara's sand. If she tried to block with earth or metal bending, Gaara would destroy it immediately.
Toph is inferior to Gaara in every way. This fight was a load of crap.
no he dosent. He changes it's density and makes constructs, out of the sand but that doesn't change it from being sand. It's like saying konan makes cardboard. Where as toph can change it to solid rock something garra has to re break down to gain control of.
Therefore, whatever density trick Toph tries to do, Gaara can undo it. She tries to make the sand as dense as a rock, Gaara lowers it.
has he even been in a situation that would call for him to resist someone else controlling his sand. Last I checked even his sand is beyond his control, it is called an "automatic defense " for a reason.
whatever Toph would only be able to turn it into an ordinary rock, which could be easily recrushed and added back into Gaara's arsenal.
point being?And it didn't block it. His defense got ripped through and he went flying. He's never had to defend himself from his own sand now has he, worse yet she turns his sand into stone and both his control over it and it's control over itself dissappear. As seen when Gengetsu puts oil on it. His control over it dissappears and it functions like regular sand.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Unless you have proof of garra or Shikaku manipulating solid rock, which you don't. Cuz even you admitted garra having to crush it back into sand first.
no he only has feats of blocking 1. The other 4 came and destroyed his defense. Since his defense didn't hold up that scan isn't a reflection of what his defense is capable of.
No it's not. Just because 1 blade couldn't break it that dosen't mean 5 blades were necessary to do so. Especially since the ever joking madara assigned him 5. It's the equivalent of saying it takes a nuke to kill someone just because a nuk3 is shown killing someone. A bullet can get the job done as well and has no grounds on what the person in question can take.
Show me any feat Toph does comparable to this with the equivalent amount of earth. She can't.
again this is based on a claim you failed to prove. Toph's control over earth is so great she can manipulate metal. Garra has to first turn into sand and then put his chakra in it b4 he can exert any form of control over sand, which has already been shown being removed from his control by the mere act of putting oil on it.
At best, Toph can only slow Gaara's attacks down, but then she can't use bending on earth to block since she'd be focusing on Gaara's sand.
Lol. garra is far to limited to fight toph. It's the equivalent of saying a sandbender can best her via sand bending only. Despite her being a proficient sandbender, earthbender, and metal bender.
no he dosent. He changes it's density and makes constructs, out of the sand but that doesn't change it from being sand. It's like saying konan makes cardboard. Where as toph can change it to solid rock something garra has to re break down to gain control of.
Which is another way of saying is that she has to force the sand together and change it's structure. She isn't teleporting the things together, so it's simply moving the sand together. Guess what? Gaara can do that too.
has he even been in a situation that would call for him to resist someone else controlling his sand. Last I checked even his sand is beyond his control, it is called an "automatic defense " for a reason.
Dunno, has Toph been in a situation where she had to overwrite chakra? That's fallacious. Gaara can control his sand, therefore, he can resist when someone else tries to take it away. What you're saying is like saying Superman, who can fly, can't resist telekinetic control. It's not passing absolute control from someone to another, it's force VS force, and Gaara has more force.
Did you just say that Gaara can't control the structure of his sand? Despite all the instances that show he can? Tell that to all the times he's displayed the ability to shape his sand into whatever he wants as hard as he wants?
Sigh. It only takes time when he's making a huge amount of sand from a little. The little sand makes more sand, which works together to make more sand. It's exponential. It's another thing entirely if he already starts off with a lot of sand. Against a boulder, the process would be incredibly fast when Gaara's using large amounts of sand like, say, sand tsunami. To quote Gaara "It doesn't take any effort from me at all to make sand from the ground"
You must be registered for see images
Based on what? Sandbending is a subset of earthbending which she's shown much more precise control over. Being able to scale down an entire city.
And Gaara merely makes limbs, fake bodies, and can control each individual grain.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
There's no difference in their precision. It comes down to the force each can exert on the sand to control its structure. As I've established, the one with the greater force is Gaara, so Toph can't overpower his control.
she'd only need control the sand directly around her. The large scale means nothing b4 her.
Which A. She can't do as established B. Large scale means everything. It means Gaara has a continuous means of attacking. If Toph where to turn only a piece into stone, it'd be broken down immediately back into sand.
point being?And it didn't block it. His defense got ripped through and he went flying. He's never had to defend himself from his own sand now has he, worse yet she turns his sand into stone and both his control over it and it's control over itself dissappear. As seen when Gengetsu puts oil on it. His control over it dissappears and it functions like regular sand.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Unless you have proof of garra or Shikaku manipulating solid rock, which you don't. Cuz even you admitted garra having to crush it back into sand first.
Point being, there's no way in heck Toph can force Gaara's sand together if he wills it to stay the same as the power behind her bending<Gaara's chakra control power. And no, that's almost certainly the minimum. After all, it didn't go through. It made an impact, but no cut was made. It would take no less than 3 to do damage, and 4 to make impact on Gaara. Again, that fallacious logic. Just because he hasn't defended himself against his sand doesn't mean he can't. The fact is, he controls his sand. It's control VS control force VS force.
No, the oil ruins it. Last time I checked, Toph doesn't bend oil.
I didn't admit jack, I said "Even if" meaning it's unlikely to begin with. Also, what the heck would you call this?
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
That sand became rock.
Already covered [/QUOTE
Nope, you just did a slight amount of damage control.
the shockwaves are more powerful than the blades themselves. Feat wise.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Where do you think the shockwaves came from? The mind of the Uchiha's telekinesis? (sarcasm)
no he only has feats of blocking 1. The other 4 came and destroyed his defense. Since his defense didn't hold up that scan isn't a reflection of what his defense is capable of.
No it's not. Just because 1 blade couldn't break it that dosen't mean 5 blades were necessary to do so. Especially since the ever joking madara assigned him 5. It's the equivalent of saying it takes a nuke to kill someone just because a nuk3 is shown killing someone. A bullet can get the job done as well and has no grounds on what the person in question can take.
I don't have to. Since you failed to prove that garra's defense can take that much. All you proved is that that much can breach it. Based on.... nothing.
No, you know you've lost in this area, which is why you're resorting to BS. It is quite the reflection of what his defense is capable of. He wasn't cut in half. Obviously, all those swords just barely broke through. That refutes any form of damage control you use in order to neuter Gaara.
again this is based on a claim you failed to prove. Toph's control over earth is so great she can manipulate metal. Garra has to first turn into sand and then put his chakra in it b4 he can exert any form of control over sand, which has already been shown being removed from his control by the mere act of putting oil on it.
No, you're just in denial. (especially if you still believe so at this point)
Metal bending has nothing to do with this. Gaara does the same thing with metals if his sand touches it. The only difference between the 2 is that Gaara needs touch, while Toph doesn't. Gaara's precision>=Toph's. Gaara's force>>>>>Toph. Therefore, saying Toph can deflect the sand is like saying a skinny weak dude can deflect a football player. It's a weak argument at best.
Again, Toph isn't an oil bender last time I checked. That's extremely fallacious. It's because his sand is susceptible to being weighed down if there's enough metal/oil inside of it.
or she can just turn it into earth and all control reverts to her.
I already shown how she deals with it.
Lol. garra is far to limited to fight toph. It's the equivalent of saying a sandbender can best her via sand bending only. Despite her being a proficient sandbender, earthbender, and metal bender.
I knew it. You're in Avatarland when you're posting it. You're pretending Gaara is just a limited bender, not his own character with his own powers. I take it you're just pretending the power behind Gaara's sand manipulation is no more powerful than the fodder earth benders that Toph beats on. Stop. Your bias is obvious since you're trying to give Gaara limitations that he doesn't have.
The extent behind the power behind Gaara's manipulation surpasses that of any known Avatar character (not counting legend of Kora, not done with that). Gaara is someone who can shape his sand in any conceivable way. Gaara can manipulate any mineral he grinds into sand, including metals (gold dust). Gaara can control each individual grain.(Selectively choosing minerals, Madara's blood) Can enhance it to obscene levels, and can even make it rock-like. (but far more durable)
The difference between them is this.
His control>=Toph in precision.
The force behind the control is greater.
Gaara's destructive power is leagues above Toph's.
Gaara's defensive power is far behind Toph's
The speed of Gaara's manipulation is far beyond toph. (blocks enton)
Gaara's movement speed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Toph's
Toph can control stone without having to turn it into another substance.
Toph can control mud.
Toph doesn't have to touch elements in order to control them.
The obvious winner in the categories over all is obviously Gaara.
Are people forgetting that Toph was using metal armor and metal whips in the fight? They used 12 year old Toph who used 88 year old Toph feats. Toph didn't carry metal wire until she was in her 20's and became the chief of police so why did kid Toph have it? Also where did the metal armor come from? They just gave her that? Yes I know she used it in the show but that's because she was on a ship that had metal yet she pulled Metal out of nowhere. Also Toph is not a master sand bender at 12, she trained in it for a little and her greatest feat is making the sand structure of Ba Sing Se; Gaara controls each sand grain as shown when he creates his sand eye, can create a sand clone which he can switch with, and make weapons such as sand shurikens.
Gaara can break down the ground to make more sand and this did not take him long, he attacked Kimimaru for like a minute then the sand underground was ready. Also did kid Toph really mud bend? Been awhile but I only remember old Toph mud bending so if kid Toph didn't do it then this only shows them using wrong info even more than I thought. Also Gaara has a large chakra reserve, he went from fighting his dad to assisting Oonoki with Muu, to fighting 2nd Mizukage, to assisting the alliance with Edo Madara all before Tsunade healed him. He fought/assisted with Kage level ninjas back to back and they think he'll run out of chakra against fighting Toph for a couple of minutes? Please tell me others noticed this.
Where in Avatar have Toph ever create huge structures like she did in the match? So Toph isn't going to overpower Gaara's control over his sand as he has much more years of training and experiences with using his sand than she has so his control out matchs hers. Toph didn't have fine precision with her metal as a kid because she was still new with it. They said Gaara fused his dad's gold dust with his sand? I know Gaara said his sand clone had some of his dad's gold dust in it but he never shown using it again after that match so what makes them believe Gaara still uses it?
Gaara is smart, he's the leader of his village and was a leader of the alliance with the other Kages. He fought ninjas who have their own styles and Gaara had to analyze their style and beat them. He can tell Toph was blind and needed her arms to bend yet they didn't think he would wonder how she can tell where he is or how she can tell when he Attacks? Gaara would be wondering this and test things out until he gets a hint of how to beat her. Also I get she can feel his sand but how does that allows her to move fast enough to evade/block it? Gaara used his sand on people who have sensory ability and/or Sharingan. The sensory ability and precognition via Sharingan wasn't stopping Gaara sand from getting them and they have much faster speed and reaction than Toph. If Gaara is attacking her from all sides with his sand then she would get overwhelmed and beaten.
I like Toph but a 12 yr old girl fighting a 19 yr old ninja who has years of killing people faster, stronger, and deadly gives him a major edge. Plus he can fly high up and Attack from afar. Also sand clones would confuse her wouldn't it?
1) Gaara's sand is fast enough to block Amaterasu, which is an instant attack that even the fastest shinobi can hardly avoid. Shinobi that would have a field day with Toph.
2) Gaara's chakra reserves are much larger now he is an adult, you based this battle off of his kid self's chakra level. Gaara doesn't use the Shikaku's chakra, so he can literally do five times the amount described before running low at all on chakra.
3) While Toph can sense where his sand is at all times, so can anyone with eyes... including Deidara, Sasuke, Kidomaru, Lee, etc... they all at some point, have been encased by Gaara's sand. Each of them are much faster than Toph could ever imagine. While she may be aware of the entirety of his sand's location, she can't physically avoid it, she's simply not fast enough.
4) Toph couldn't have known that Gaara intended to crush her with the sand, she has never witnessed a tech like that one, so how would she had known to cover her entire body with metal, that happened to be able to withstand the force that Gaara uses to crush people?
5) If this was a known death battle, then Gaara won the moment he caught Toph the first time. When Gaara intends to kill, he does it the first time he catches the victim. Even if he chooses to toy with them, he will at least break an arm and a leg. Toph would had died the first five minutes of this battle or been injured right away and been unable to avoid his abilities at all.
6) Gaara is much smarter than you think and can come up with plans to outwit even the most powerful shinobi, Toph's intelligence feats are not that great. She accomplished everything due to her superior earth bending. Not to mention Gaara has went face to face with gods. Toph has no feats even remotely comparable.
7) Toph can't get close enough to hit Gaara, because his sand still protects him and Toph isn't fast enough to get around it at all. She would have to bend her way through it, which would allow Gaara more than enough time to knock her back or fill her body full of sand.
Thanks for the post below, I totally missed those points as well~
Nope. It's not earth bender restricted, we know this because aang uses the same tactic on ozai in their final battle and against toph and katara in their practice.
Garra's larger quantities dosen't make up for toph's finesse. And sand attack he uses Can be shifted back to earth thus removing garra's control over it. Same goes for his gourd sand which believe it or not is controlled through magnetism.
Toph is using flay out telekinesis as all benders do and has gotten to the point where movement for it has become little to none.
She's like the earth bending version of ming hua/amon.
Don't think you understood what he meant. Toph sending others is due to her earth bending which she use against other benders; she can tell how to evade by how they move to Attack since benders have to use their arms and stances to bend. Gaara does not have to do this as he has had his arms crossed as his sand Attacks other as if Gaara was mentally control the sand. Also Aang used it because he is an earth bender, he can bend all elements so he's an earth, fire, air, and water bender. Toph two daughters also can sense like this and theyre earth benders as well. No water, fire, or airbender has ever sensed in the same fashion. Wind benders can sense the vibrations in the air when they're bald but that's for air benders.
Gaara can break the ground up to make sand, he can turn rocks to sand; he did this against Kimimaru and made his sand even harder than before. Toph is not a master sand bender, she has no feat using it in battle at 12; she can turn it to rock (she only shown doing a pretty small area that she could stand on) and sand bending Ba Sing Sè which she said she have been practicing. Practice to do one thing does not make you a master at it, Naruto trained hard to learn Rasengan but he wasn't able to just use Rasengan variations like Oodama Rasengan, chou Oodama rasengan, or anything; he had to train even more. Toph had no reason to train in sand bending at the time because she was still training Aang and busy trying to not get caught by the fire nation. She doesn't like sand because she can't see well on it.
Her sand bending skills are at like (going to rank using ninja level rank but as a skill rank for this) a low to mid Chunin level while Gaara is Kage level as he had been training his sand abilities at a younger age than Toph learned to earth bend. Toph is a master at earth bending, has a small amount of training with sand bending and was a beginner at metal bending. They are using 12 yr old Toph here, maybe if it was 20's Toph who became police chief then maybe but she's featless and that would make me want to bring in Gaara from ch. 700 who has 12 years of training/experiences that war Gaara doesn't. War Gaara was 19, he has a large chakra reserve as he fought Kage levels back to back in the war as I said in my post. Has Toph fought strong master level benders back to back? Masters like Katara, Azula, Iroh, Ozai, Tenzen, to name a few.
The unanswerable question is....is manipulation using Chi>manipulation using Chakra?
The four elemental bending arts are all dependent on the energy, or chi, within the human body, relying on its flow through the body to manipulate a specific element. A person is able to bend when they extend the influence of their chi beyond the body to interact with the environment.
garra has never shown structure change. No matter how dense he packs it it's still sand. Hence why when raikiri ripped through it, instead of exploding/making huge craters like it usually does to rock, it slipped inside like butter.
Dunno, has Toph been in a situation where she had to overwrite chakra?
she dosen't have to. Since its magnetism that controls the sand, she'd be overpowering it via telekinesis. Somthing she's had to do multiple multiple times if not every time she's went up against another earthbender.
That's fallacious. Gaara can control his sand, therefore, he can resist when someone else tries to take it away.
but he can't resist someone changing it's state, as shown against Gengetsu, oil changed the state of his sand thus he lost control over it, there wasn't a battle over control it just changed hands instantly.
What you're saying is like saying Superman, who can fly, can't resist telekinetic control.
Bad analogy. What I'm saying is like since garra can only control sand if toph changes it to earth he can no longer control it. And while I have proof on my side you've yet to prove your side.
It's not passing absolute control from someone to another, it's force VS force, and Gaara has more force.
so why couldn't he control the sand Gengetsu manipulated with oil? You've yet to answer that.
Did you just say that Gaara can't control the structure of his sand? Despite all the instances that show he can? Tell that to all the times he's displayed the ability to shape his sand into whatever he wants as hard as he wants?
Shapes it into sand...it's still sand. Toph changes it to earth... its no longer sand. Are you not seeing the difference here. I already gave you the konan example. She can make her papaer as hard as steel but it's still paper, not steel not cardboard. Paper.
U know what here's a better example. Ninjas that use water techniques can't manipulate ice. Ice is a different kkg all together and requires wind. Yet water benders can manipulate ice,water,mist, and if proficient enough blood, and go further than that by changing it's state from one to the other. Garra's that water ninja.
Sigh. It only takes time when he's making a huge amount of sand from a little. The little sand makes more sand, which works together to make more sand. It's exponential. It's another thing entirely if he already starts off with a lot of sand. Against a boulder, the process would be incredibly fast when Gaara's using large amounts of sand like, say, sand tsunami. To quote Gaara "It doesn't take any effort from me at all to make sand from the ground"
yet he's been standing in the same location doing that for the entire duration of the fight. Hence it taking time. Much slower than how long it takes toph to not only notice it(instantly), but switch it back.
That first scan proves my point. He says he created dense sand. Not earth or rock.
I've never seen garra control his sand by the individual grain. Even with that scan of madara he's controlling all of them at once. Not each one individually. The best he could do was hold madara in place where as a toph already shown the proficiency to metal bend on a even smaller scale. picking up the residual metal poison left in korra's body. And remember, metal bending is just manipulating the small traces of earth within the metal. So in truth she was sensing and controlling the smaller fragments of earth within the already microscopic metal. Heck it wouldn't even be a stretch to say that she can sense the iron in someone's body since when brought together it's roughly the size of a nail and the mercury that got pulled out was smaller than that. So no. Garra was never on Toph's level when it comes to percision.
when he finds the individual grains embedded in the kunai's thrown at him come back, oh wait scratch that. Metal bending would be another ability all together, used by a completely different kazekage.
no. Since garra can't do anything about another changing it's structure. He couldn't manipulate his dad's gold sand until his dad "died". Nor could he manipulate his own sand when it got drenched in oil. There's no reason for me to believe he could manipulate Toph's earth.
As I've established, the one with the greater force is Gaara, so Toph can't overpower his control.
you mean how he broke down those meteor's immediately. Matter of fact show me him breaking down any rock immediately. I'll wait.
Point being, there's no way in heck Toph can force Gaara's sand together if he wills it to stay the same as the power behind her bending<Gaara's chakra control power.
why not? You've failed to prove that.Onnoki used earth techs on garra's sand like it's nothing, oil manipulated garra's sand like it's nothing. Toph would be no different.
And no, that's almost certainly the minimum. After all, it didn't go through.
manipulating gold dust his father left behind? The bigger question is can he do anything to that gold egg without having to manually break it down first. I'll Wait.
Nope, you just did a slight amount of damage control.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Where do you think the shockwaves came from? The mind of the Uchiha's telekinesis? (sarcasm)
their blades are like wips. The tip of a whip can break the sound barrier and produce shockwaves but the rest of the whip/sword can't. An example of this in the manga is hashirama's wood hands blocking madara's sword despite the shockwaves of said sword cutting said wood hands and mountain tops with ease.
No, you know you've lost in this area, which is why you're resorting to BS. It is quite the reflection of what his defense is capable of. He wasn't cut in half. Obviously, all those swords just barely broke through.
baseless. If it was"just barley he wouldn't have went flying. Unless you think this is a" just barely " situation as well, and they can all tank susanno fists no diff:
You must be registered for see images
What breaks a defense has no grounds on what that defense can take. Triple roshomon got destroyed by tbb that dosen't mean it can "just barley " tank tbb. 10,000 hands destroyed madara's iso susanoo that dosen't mean it "just barley" tanked 10,000 hands. Now get that fallacious logic outta here.
That refutes any form of damage control you use in order to neuter Gaara.
since when? Since when? Scans of garra manipulating metal outside of dust. I'll wait. Cuz last I checked he has to crush it into sand first. He can't manipulate the metal out the get go.
The only difference between the 2 is that Gaara needs touch, while Toph doesn't.
Thats not the reason he lost control over it. He's already shown being capable of manipulating heavier gold sand. It didn't change him from not being able to manipulate sand that got its state changed.
He manipulates sand and only sand via magnetism. If you can post him doing anything but making sand contstructs then you'd have a point. But at this point he's no different from a sandbender.
I take it you're just pretending the power behind Gaara's sand manipulation is no more powerful than the fodder earth benders that Toph beats on.
you mean the limitations he himself made clear? Not being able to manipulate any form of metal bigger than a grains of sand? Him admitting to having to crush rocks down b4 he can use it? What? Those limitations he gave to himself. You're the only one trying to deny it.
The extent behind the power behind Gaara's manipulation surpasses that of any known Avatar character (not counting legend of Kora, not done with that).
false. Had that be the case he wouldn't have to put his sand in madara's body in the first place, and he wouldn't be limited to holding him in place, not to mention despite the sand never being shown to leave his body he could no longer manipulate it.
failed to prove. Who manipulates metal via the trace amount of earth inside it? Not garra. Can't even manipulate without breaking it first.
Who can pick up on the different metals within another person's body via sensing alone? Even when it was put it there by someone else?
Not Garra he can only manipulate his sand after someone else puts his sand in the targets body. He couldn't even notice when deidara put bombs in his own sand. Yet you want to say his perception or precision is on Toph's lvl? Gtfo.
baseless he only shown greater scale. His best feat was something that onnoki did 75%of the work for. Onnoki on his own lightened it to the point where he was slowing it's decent. Mind you. Onnoki is a old man and his size compared to the scale of the meteor. Further proved by the second meteor crashing through it with ease.
Gaara's destructive power is leagues above Toph's.
since when was enton known for being fast? Last I checked it's amaterasu that has the speed feats and it was garra doing the attacking. But yes your correct.
I clock toph at 6(better control,higher destructive power, higher defense,more substances to control,changing states between substances, no touch needed, to garra's 2(greater scale, greater attack speed).
Yeah sorry buddy.
@sage. They used game sprites No game let's you play as prime toph.
Don't think you understood what he meant. Toph sending others is due to her earth bending which she use against other benders; she can tell how to evade by how they move to Attack since benders have to use their arms and stances to bend.
irrelevant since she can still sense his sand. It's not like some type of sharingan precognition. She's sensing her element at all times, no matter the form as stated in the extras.the only reason the belt that sokka threw at her caught her by surprise is because she couldn't bend metal at that time. Thus she can't sense metal.
Attacks other as if Gaara was mentally control the sand. Also Aang used it because he is an earth bender, he can bend all elements so he's an earth, fire, air, and water bender.
I brought up aang Cuz he sensed both katara's water techs and Toph's earth techs via Toph's technique. Toph did the same to katara despite her bending a different element. Just because airbender/earth benders sense differently dosen't mean their sensing is restricted sensing that specific elements. In both cases of the airbender style sensing it was uses against non benders. And toph uses hers against all her opponents.
Gaara can break the ground up to make sand, he can turn rocks to sand; he did this against Kimimaru and made his sand even harder than before.
given toph's nature she practiced until she was a master. She can't claim to be the greatest eartgbender of all time if someone can best her with sand.
Naruto trained hard to learn Rasengan but he wasn't able to just use Rasengan variations like Oodama Rasengan, chou Oodama rasengan, or anything; he had to train even more.
yet she improved her control over it to make a mock ba sing sae. Complete with every single building, and a mini earth king.
Her sand bending skills are at like (going to rank using ninja level rank but as a skill rank for this) a low to mid Chunin level while Gaara is Kage level as he had been training his sand abilities at a younger age than Toph learned to earth bend. Toph is a master at earth bending, has a small amount of training with sand bending and was a beginner at metal bending. They are using 12 yr old Toph here, maybe if it was 20's Toph who became police chief then maybe but she's featless and that would make me want to bring in Gaara from ch. 700 who has 12 years of training/experiences that war Gaara doesn't. War Gaara was 19, he has a large chakra reserve as he fought Kage levels back to back in the war as I said in my post. Has Toph fought strong master level benders back to back? Masters like Katara, Azula, Iroh, Ozai, Tenzen, to name a few.
They wasn't using 12 year old Toph if they gave her the feat of sensing half way around the world. The sprites of each character obviously come from video games and there's no game showing prime toph.
Toph in the comics(still a teen mind you and it was during the war before sozin's comet) fought king Bumi to a stand still. Same man that took retook his nation by himself. Mind you. It took iroh(master), zuko, katara(master since end of book1),pakku (master),Jeong jeong (master), and piando to stop them. And even then they said they'd go at it again without interruptions later.
nope. She interrupted their stances before they even attck. and if they do get the attack of she's sensing the element itself. (In garra's case)
irrelevant since she can still sense his sand. It's not like some type of sharingan precognition. She's sensing her element at all times, no matter the form as stated in the extras.the only reason the belt that sokka threw at her caught her by surprise is because she couldn't bend metal at that time. Thus she can't sense metal.
I know what it is. seismic sense. But theirs only extends through the floor. Hers is capable of sensing objects in the air.
above.
point being?
I brought up aang Cuz he sensed both katara's water techs and Toph's earth techs via Toph's technique. Toph did the same to katara despite her bending a different element. Just because airbender/earth benders sense differently dosen't mean their sensing is restricted sensing that specific elements. In both cases of the airbender style sensing it was uses against non benders. And toph uses hers against all her opponents.
true but he can't do the reverse. Which toph can do.
that's all that matters.
her focus was split between holding up a entire building and stopping the sandbenders.
which is a sign of improvement over the course of... a couple months? given toph's nature she practiced until she was a master. She can't claim to be the greatest eartgbender of all time if someone can best her with sand. something toph would undoubtedly do.
false. Despite hiding out in the fire nation and still training Aang she still took the time out to improve her Sandbending. yet she improved her control over it to make a mock ba sing sae. Complete with every single building, and a mini earth king.
They wasn't using 12 year old Toph if they gave her the feat of sensing half way around the world. The sprites of each character obviously come from video games and there's no game showing prime toph.
Toph in the comics(still a teen mind you and it was during the war before sozin's comet) fought king Bumi to a stand still. Same man that took retook his nation by himself. Mind you. It took iroh(master), zuko, katara(master since end of book1),pakku (master),Jeong jeong (master), and piando to stop them. And even then they said they'd go at it again without interruptions later.
First part was to clarify things because your other post made it sound like Toph couldn't use her sensing on other benders. Also they put both Gaara's age (19) and Toph (12 in Avatar and 88 in Korra); why would they include old Toph in her if they were using 12 yr old Toph? They even said she is 12 in the video after showing he ages in both shows so they were using Toph from Avatar while giving her feats from when she was in her 20's as police chief and when she was 88 because there's no point in mentioning anything that Toph does above the age they are using as she haven't done them yet. They even put mud bending as her skill while showing old Toph mud bending.
Also there's no way Toph could become anywhere as skilled as Gaara in that short of a time. Aang was learning water bending long before Toph started training with sand and he's not close to master level without Avatar mode where as Katara became a master a lot sooner as she practiced it before. Aang has the talent where as Katara has the talent and skill which allowed her to master it so fast. Gaara has over 10 years of training with sand where as Toph had a couple of months from the desert to the eclipse and she would need to be where sand is to train and they're not always by the shore. Before you say she can turn earth to sand, that would probably be dirt unless it's actually by a beach setting.
You can't say one feet of forming Ba Sing Sè makes her skilled in handling masters of controlling sand as it doesn't show her turning large amounts of sand into rocks, or controlling it to Attack or defend or anything that could of use in a fight. She turned a small amount of sand into rock but she still couldn't see well as the sand around her still made things fuzzy to see. Yes she can feel earth but what can that really do when she's surrounded by it? Gaara can make sand clones to confuse her as she can only sense earth but not Gaara himself unless he's on the ground and not flying. 12 yr old Toph doesn't use metal lines, that was Police chief Toph who was in her 20's so take that out of the fight and where did the suit of metal come from? She does wear a suit of metal at 12, she only got if after being on a metal ship then discarded it after using it so take that out as well.
Gaara has a high chakra reserve, he fought his dad, assisted Oonoki with Muu, fought the 2nd Mizukage, then assisted the army with Madara all before getting healed by Tsunade so yes he has more than enough chakra for dealing with Toph or do you think back to back fights with Kage level ninjas means he has low chakra reserves? They even said info on Gaara wrong when they said after losing Shukaku Gaara reflected on his life and changed to become loved by his people and become Kazekage when in fact that all happened before losing Shukaku. Yes Toph can sense his sand but how does that save her when Gaara's sand caught people much much much faster than Toph? Lee, Sasuke, A, Madara, 2nd Mizukage, Deidara, and Kimimaru to name a few. Sasuke's Sharingan falls under sensei type as it picks up on movement, predict movement, see chakra, and see through jutsus yet he still was caught by Gaara sand before in part 1, same with Madara who is fast and mastered the Sharingan beyond everyone except maybe current Sasuke.
Toph in the comics is Ilan older Toph isn't it? Also that's using another source than the show, Naruto manga is over the anime as many people don't except filler so why not the same for Avatar? Might as well use the Naruto movies for more of a Gaara's feats then because he does turn his sand to rocks which he can make explode (did so while fight Naruto) and in another movie Gaara made lightning strike his enemy using his sand so does that goes under Gaara's skills as well? Screw Attack used GT for Goku vs Supes so they're not against using noncanon materials.
First part was to clarify things because your other post made it sound like Toph couldn't use her sensing on other benders. Also they put both Gaara's age (19) and Toph (12 in Avatar and 88 in Korra); why would they include old Toph in her if they were using 12 yr old Toph? They even said she is 12 in the video after showing he ages in both shows so they were using Toph from Avatar while giving her feats from when she was in her 20's as police chief and when she was 88 because there's no point in mentioning anything that Toph does above the age they are using as she haven't done them yet. They even put mud bending as her skill while showing old Toph mud bending.
Also there's no way Toph could become anywhere as skilled as Gaara in that short of a time. Aang was learning water bending long before Toph started training with sand and he's not close to master level without Avatar mode where as Katara became a master a lot sooner as she practiced it before. Aang has the talent where as Katara has the talent and skill which allowed her to master it so fast. Gaara has over 10 years of training with sand where as Toph had a couple of months from the desert to the eclipse and she would need to be where sand is to train and they're not always by the shore. Before you say she can turn earth to sand, that would probably be dirt unless it's actually by a beach setting.
You can't say one feet of forming Ba Sing Sè makes her skilled in handling masters of controlling sand as it doesn't show her turning large amounts of sand into rocks, or controlling it to Attack or defend or anything that could of use in a fight. She turned a small amount of sand into rock but she still couldn't see well as the sand around her still made things fuzzy to see. Yes she can feel earth but what can that really do when she's surrounded by it? Gaara can make sand clones to confuse her as she can only sense earth but not Gaara himself unless he's on the ground and not flying. 12 yr old Toph doesn't use metal lines, that was Police chief Toph who was in her 20's so take that out of the fight and where did the suit of metal come from? She does wear a suit of metal at 12, she only got if after being on a metal ship then discarded it after using it so take that out as well.
Gaara has a high chakra reserve, he fought his dad, assisted Oonoki with Muu, fought the 2nd Mizukage, then assisted the army with Madara all before getting healed by Tsunade so yes he has more than enough chakra for dealing with Toph or do you think back to back fights with Kage level ninjas means he has low chakra reserves? They even said info on Gaara wrong when they said after losing Shukaku Gaara reflected on his life and changed to become loved by his people and become Kazekage when in fact that all happened before losing Shukaku. Yes Toph can sense his sand but how does that save her when Gaara's sand caught people much much much faster than Toph? Lee, Sasuke, A, Madara, 2nd Mizukage, Deidara, and Kimimaru to name a few. Sasuke's Sharingan falls under sensei type as it picks up on movement, predict movement, see chakra, and see through jutsus yet he still was caught by Gaara sand before in part 1, same with Madara who is fast and mastered the Sharingan beyond everyone except maybe current Sasuke.
Toph in the comics is Ilan older Toph isn't it? Also that's using another source than the show, Naruto manga is over the anime as many people don't except filler so why not the same for Avatar? Might as well use the Naruto movies for more of a Gaara's feats then because he does turn his sand to rocks which he can make explode (did so while fight Naruto) and in another movie Gaara made lightning strike his enemy using his sand so does that goes under Gaara's skills as well? Screw Attack used GT for Goku vs Supes so they're not against using noncanon materials.
I explained why they gave her her older feat's despite using her younger sprite. They have done that sort of thing before. Look at Samus vs fett.
I don't see why she can't be skilled with sanbending Her vision isn't fussy despite walking on the beach. That alone speaks leaps and bounds of improvement.
Aang isn't toph. He has to learn multiple elements. Katara became master by end of book 1. Toph's metal bending went from rudimentary (learned during end of book 2) to finesse (by end of book 3). Mind you she's bend traveling with them for less than a year. I have no reason to believe she Sandbending wouldn't be the same. And she senses heartbeats so unless you have proof that garra's sand clones contain it there's no reason she'd be tricked by it.
No. She fought bumi before sozin's comet. Meaning during book 3. Comic isn't filler material since it's done by the creators. Ugh.
