Gaara and Kisame vs Minato and Tobirama

Beans2

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Location: Gaara vs Kinimaro
Intel: Team 1 knows about FTG. Team 2 knows Gaara uses sand and Kisame uses Suiton.
Conditions: Gaara is war arc (no Shukaku). Kisame has Samehada. Minato and Tobirama are alive.
Restrictions: none
Distance: 60 meters

I think Team 1 takes it, since they can change the entire environment to suit them and can render FTG useless
 

Rιver

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I don't think they can render Hiraishin useless. Firstly, whether Kisame creates a dome or not can be rendered useless by using Gamayuda in conjunction with fire (e.g. explosive tag in this case) that either Kichi or Bunta use, which 'mixes' itself with water and evaporates it when ignited. We have already seen that water and oil is the weakness of Gaara's sand, and they cannot react to that speed combined with sensing and Hiraishin. What is even worse, is that these are basic techniques. Minato still has HM and Tobirama has his Edo Tensei. Ultimately both are tagged and killed with either a Senpō: Rasengan or kunai. First team stands no chance, whatsoever.
 

ATD

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Intresting matchup,
it could go either way, but at least minato with gamabunta and tobirama with the quickest movements in placing markings are to much for team 1, which is more the slow team with big attacks.
team 2 very high diff takes it 6 of 10 times.
 

Beans2

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I don't think they can render Hiraishin useless. Firstly, whether Kisame creates a dome or not can be rendered useless by using Gamayuda in conjunction with fire (e.g. explosive tag in this case) that either Kichi or Bunta use, which 'mixes' itself with water and evaporates it when ignited. We have already seen that water and oil is the weakness of Gaara's sand, and they cannot react to that speed combined with sensing and Hiraishin. What is even worse, is that these are basic techniques. Minato still has HM and Tobirama has his Edo Tensei. Ultimately both are tagged and killed with either a Senpō: Rasengan or kunai. First team stands no chance, whatsoever.

A katon is not going to evaporate a suiton of that size, even if enhanced by oil. (were you inspired by that one Part 1 filler episode where Naruto threw a paper tag into Gamabunta's oil to set it on fire and evaporate the sea monster? Lol)

Toad oil disables sand, true, but Minato doesn't know that sand is weak to oil so the only reason this could happen is if by chance.

Edos can be sealed by Gaara or drained of chakra with Daikodan.

Gaara isn't getting marked due to several reasons:
-Sand can't be marked due to it being composed of millions of tiny grains, which can be seperated rendering the marking obsolete
-FTG kunai can't penetrate Gaara's ultimate defense so Minato can't teleport past it
-He can also simply "catch" the kunai with his sand and then bury them underground so Minato can't teleport to them
-Due to his sand armour, he can "shed off" any markings if Minato or Tobirama do somehow get close enough to mark him

Kisame isn't getting marked either:

-FTG Kunai can't really be thrown underwater, they can just sink to the bottom (sharks can also swallow the kunai so if they teleport to them they teleport inside the belly of a shark)
-Water can't be marked due to it being liquid so Minato/Tobirama has no way to get to Kisame other than swimming, in which Kisame is far superior

If Kisame DOES get marked, it's not much of a problem
-To mark Kisame, Minato or Tobirama would have to physically touch him. At this point in the battle Kisame is undoubtedly fused with Samehada so just touching him to mark him means that they would lose chakra upon physical contact
-Then to teleport back to him, they have to touch him again. Which would make them lose more chakra.
-Unless Minato/Tobirama happen to go for Kisame's head, any wounds they inflict on Kisame are healed by Samehada, so a FTG slash doesn't kill Kisame. At this point Kisame can coubterattack by merking them with bones coming out of his body and stabbing them (he actually has displayed this ability, similar to Kimimaro).

add this on top of the fact that Samehada is a sensor and when merged Kisame will inmediately know Minato/Tobirama's location the instant they teleport + boss summons get merked by 1000 sharks, drained with GSB, or crushed/sealed by sand, I see very little possibility of Minato and Tobirama winning.
 
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Rιver

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A katon is not going to evaporate a suiton of that size, even if enhanced by oil. (were you inspired by that one Part 1 filler episode where Naruto threw a paper tag into Gamabunta's oil to set it on fire and evaporate the sea monster? Lol)

Toad oil disables sand, true, but Minato doesn't know that sand is weak to oil so the only reason this could happen is if by chance.

Do tell me more. Are you honestly going to tell me, that the dome is significantly larger than this ? Shima just ignites it.

Bunta uses only a sword, Suiton or oil to fight. It's not rare for him to attack with oil, while Tobirama uses mainly just Suiton and Hiraishin. It's not rare for him either.​

Edos can be sealed by Gaara.

Gaara isn't getting marked due to several reasons:
-Sand can't be marked due to it being composed of millions of tiny grains, which can be seperated rendering the marking obsolete
-FTG kunai can't penetrate Gaara's ultimate defense so Minato can't teleport past it
-He can also simply "catch" the kunai with his sand and then bury them underground so Minato can't teleport to them
-Due to his sand armour, he can "shed off" any markings if Minato or Tobirama do somehow get close enough to mark him

Kisame isn't getting marked either:

-FTG Kunai can't really be thrown underwater, they can just sink to the bottom (sharks can also swallow the kunai so if they teleport to them they teleport inside the belly of a shark)
-Water can't be marked due to it being liquid so Minato/Tobirama has no way to get to Kisame other than swimming, in which Kisame is far superior

No one said that he has to penetrate the sand. Hiraishin mark has a radius of about 5 meters , which means even if the kunai does get stopped by the sand, he can always teleport within barrier he is held in (depending on the size), or teleport Gaara out of there.

Staying inside water wouldn't really help Kisame if the opponents aren't there. Minato can always evaporate it though. Nothing also suggests he gets to make the dome before Minato marks him.​

If Kisame DOES get marked, it's not much of a problem
-To mark Kisame, Minato or Tobirama would have to physically touch him. At this point in the battle Kisame is undoubtedly fused with Samehada so just touching him to mark him means that they would lose chakra upon physical contact
-Then to teleport back to him, they have to touch him again. Which would make them lose more chakra.
-Unless Minato/Tobirama happen to go for Kisame's head, any wounds they inflict on Kisame are healed by Samehada, so a FTG slash doesn't kill Kisame. At this point Kisame can coubterattack by merking them with bones coming out of his body and stabbing them (he actually has displayed this ability, similar to Kimimaro).

add this on top of the fact that Samehada is a sensor and when merged Kisame will inmediately know Minato/Tobirama's location the instant they teleport + boss summons get merked by 1000 sharks, I see very little possibility of Minato and Tobirama winning.

Chakra reservers are no problem to Tobirama, at all. After all, he is a Senju. Also, I doubt Minato himself has little chakra reserves. As soon as he's marked, he doesn't need to touch him twice. The only thing he would be touching, is a Rasengan or kunai. Heck, even Kawazu Kumite kills him off the bat.

Samehada being a sensor doesn't matter. As it's not Kisame, it takes time for a medium to transfer information about two Hiraishin users. What is even worse, is if Tobirama and Minato make clones. Both Gaara and Kisame cannot simply tell which one is which, and where they even are. It's near impossible.

You do know that Bunta can always jump, don't you? Or Shima and Fukasaku use Katon and Fūton to evaporate all.​
 

VongolaX

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Minato and Tobirama win with low-mid diff
 

Beans2

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Do tell me more. Are you honestly going to tell me, that the dome is significantly larger than this ? Shima just ignites it.

Bunta uses only a sword, Suiton or oil to fight. It's not rare for him to attack with oil, while Tobirama uses mainly just Suiton and Hiraishin. It's not rare for him either.​


@Bold yes I am . The water dome is larger than the AoE of the flames, a giant racoon like Ponta was completely dwarfed. Suiton > Katon by elemental superiority so the flames would get extinguished. Furthermore, Kisame can just shoot Daikodan at the flames and oil and the entire attack would be absorbed and Daikodan would end up hitting the toad and draining them of chakra, thus killing them. Kisame also displayed feats which support that he can spit out a dome even larger than the one he used against Bee (he spat out lakes with 30% power; he summoned a thousand sharks without Samehada's chakra).

You're counting on Bunta just using oil by chance? Toads have never spit oil before without being directed to do so by Jiraiya. Also just because the toad has the ability to produce oil does not mean that all sand will be disabled, toads can spit it only in one direction leaving their limbs open to being snagged by sand arms, which drag them down and bury them underground in a sand coffin.

No one said that he has to penetrate the sand. Hiraishin mark has a radius of about 5 meters , which means even if the kunai does get stopped by the sand, he can always teleport within barrier he is held in (depending on the size), or teleport Gaara out of there.

Staying inside water wouldn't really help Kisame if the opponents aren't there. Minato can always evaporate it though. Nothing also suggests he gets to make the dome before Minato marks him.

Okay, that's fine; but Minato won't be able to even get his kunais that close enough to Gaara. Sand tsunamis or simple sand barriers sweep the kunai away and bury them underground before they get close to Gaara. There's also his sand armour, which allows him to "shed off" a marking if Minato does get the chance to mark him.

Already explained why Minato can't evaporate the dome. The dome moves with Kisame, so he can swim over to his opponents; and him and Gaara can completely change the environment, and eliminate the FTG kunai one by one through their respective methods (Gaara burying them underground with sand, Kisame summoning sharks to swallow them), and through their techniques the two can corral Minato and Tobirama into an advantageous situation (underwater or within a sand coffin) and them having no safe place to teleport to. @Underline - they aren't tagging Kisame before he spits out the dome from 60 meters away. All it takes is a handseal. In fact, the most likely case is that Kisame spits out his water dome and catches them in it before they can mark a location outside of the water dome's AoE.

Chakra reservers are no problem to Tobirama, at all. After all, he is a Senju. Also, I doubt Minato himself has little chakra reserves. As soon as he's marked, he doesn't need to touch him twice. The only thing he would be touching, is a Rasengan or kunai. Heck, even Kawazu Kumite kills him off the bat.​


Samehada devoured six tails worth of chakra from Killer Bee by touching him once . That's a lot of chakra, in case you didn't know. Even touching Kisame once to mark him takes away a significant amount of chakra.

As I said before, a rasengan or a kunai won't affect Kisame. Samehada heals him from the injury with little effort. Kisame can kill him by counterattacking with bones potruding from his body the moment after he gets stabbed or hit with a rasengan.

Samehada being a sensor doesn't matter. As it's not Kisame, it takes time for a medium to transfer information about two Hiraishin users. What is even worse, is if Tobirama and Minato make clones. Both Gaara and Kisame cannot simply tell which one is which, and where they even are. It's near impossible.

You do know that Bunta can always jump, don't you? Or Shima and Fukasaku use Katon and Fūton to evaporate all.

Kisame can merge with Samehada and sense their location immediately. I'm not suggesting Kisame can necessarily react to a FTG slash, what I'm saying is that Kisame will know where they are very soon after they teleport - so they can't hide from him and Gaara.

There's no point in bringing up clones since Gaara and Kisame can make them as well, and in greater numbers. Kisame's water clones can also merge with their copies of Samehada, giving them healing, sensing, and chakra absorption abilities.

Another thing to note, Kisame's sharks can fly. I know this sounds ridiculous but they can move about by being surrounded with a bubble of water
 

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Kisame and Gaara are the worst possible team. Gaara's sand and Kisame's Suiton is limited because of each other.
 

Beans2

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Kisame and Gaara are the worst possible team. Gaara's sand and Kisame's Suiton is limited because of each other.

The sand and water don't nexessarily have to mix. Kisame's territory is in the water, Gaara's is outside of it. The two deal with the enemies within their respective territories. They actually make a great team.
 

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Kisame solos and Gaara solos i mean they are there worst opponent
 

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You do realize what hot oil mixed with water results in right? If any of that oil-based fire hits a water dome of that size, anything inside of it will get fried. Team two wins with mid-high diff.
 

ARGUS

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You do realize what hot oil mixed with water results in right? If any of that oil-based fire hits a water dome of that size, anything inside of it will get fried. Team two wins with mid-high diff.
Where is the fire coming from??
 

Beans2

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You do realize what hot oil mixed with water results in right? If any of that oil-based fire hits a water dome of that size, anything inside of it will get fried. Team two wins with mid-high diff.

1. Kisame can just absorb the heat produced by the oil and flames by merging with Samehada
2. Oil+Fire is countered by Daikodan which absorbs the attack and continues traveling, hitting Gamabunta or whoever fired off the attack
 

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1. Kisame can just absorb the heat produced by the oil and flames by merging with Samehada
2. Oil+Fire is countered by Daikodan which absorbs the attack and continues traveling, hitting Gamabunta or whoever fired off the attack

Absorb the heat? You mean chakra?

Daikodan requires a water source to use. As soon as the water source is being produced, oil+fire completely evaporates any chance of Daikodan being used.
 

Beans2

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Absorb the heat? You mean chakra?

Daikodan requires a water source to use. As soon as the water source is being produced, oil+fire completely evaporates any chance of Daikodan being used.

1. Yes, absorb the chakra.
2. Really? Daikodan requires a water source, how do you know that? Irrelevant anyway since Kisame can create a massive water source in seconds by simply weaving a handseal, whereas Minato has to summon Gamabunta and tell him to use oil before any sort of katon is being produced.
 
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