[KG] For the Cataracts
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Reborn
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hypnosis is like taking a person's mind and making it your bish. Seperating their consciousness from their body so you can make them do shit. You can make them quack like a duck or tell you stuff you want to here or influence movements and all that jazz (paraphrased)
In essence, hypnosis is when you can tap into the more primal levels of your mind. The conscious mind is a layered hybrid made of desires, instincts, emotions, etc all fixed up and round up by a conscious will. Its the will that keeps it in place. Hypnosis shuts down partially or completely, the will, in order to bring about deeper and more primal levels of the self. Many uses can be achieved by this method but we won't dwell on it; we'll focus on the RP version of it. The RP version of it is quite simple and comes from the ability that the Sharingan has to perceive the world and all its details perfectly and with instant speed, joined with its ability to influence the mind, a result of the Yin oriented nature of the Doujutsu.
As such, with the Sharingan, by making eye contact, you can distort your opponents will only slightly. This needs to be sustained and no eye contact can be broken. When you're sustaining it, you can alter how your opponent perceives a basic thing and alter it to suit your need. The effort and focus needed makes this unsuitable for most fights but Kakashi showed that you can for example, alter the opponents perception of time enough so that you seem to be doing the handseals for a technique at the same time he does and thus seeming to read his mind. You can suggest words and feelings into the mind of your target which, coupled with your doujutsu accuracy can enable you to produce the illusion that you can read his mind. Its not Genjutsu, it won't work on anyone of the same rank as you or higher and it needs both focus and effort as well as eye contact. You cannot alter big things nor make your opponent harm himself or even control his will. Its all about minor things that, through manipulation, speech and approriate timing can create a sense of overhwelming doom in the target.
Reborn
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So not necessarily mind slavery but rather, mind playing. So the hypnotic nature of the Sharingan isn't in itself genjutsu but a mind based technique (produced by Yin) almost akin to the Yamanaka where you enter the mind. However, unlike the Yamanaka who can completely impose their will upon their victims (through a drawback of their own), Uchiha/Sharingan users only really use slight of mind to make these "suggestions" or subtle insertions of their own will in such a way to attempt to make their opponent believe they are doing this of their own fruition and that you are in fact a person with psychic mind reading ability or what not.
I have a question however. We've seen techniques from the Sharingan and even techniques imposed by non-sharingan users like Kabuto and the Iwagakure shinobi who've hypnotized their opponents to get them to: fall asleep, render their being completely unconscious, or even reveal information by imposing their will onto them. Hell, even Tobi and Itachi have demonstrated feats of manipulating forced action. Would such genjutsu fall under the Sharingan's hypnotic properties?
I have a question however. We've seen techniques from the Sharingan and even techniques imposed by non-sharingan users like Kabuto and the Iwagakure shinobi who've hypnotized their opponents to get them to: fall asleep, render their being completely unconscious, or even reveal information by imposing their will onto them. Hell, even Tobi and Itachi have demonstrated feats of manipulating forced action. Would such genjutsu fall under the Sharingan's hypnotic properties?
No. You can hint and play with your opponents mind but never to a level that you can make him do something that he wouldn't otherwise do of is own free will. In essence, you can, at best, lock yourself with your opponent. And at its weakest, you can create mental "whispers" of sorts that would induce fear, anxiety, etc but are mostly cosmetic in terms of our RP rather than useful for some decisive effect. The locking aspect is excellent for taijutsu but also when your oponent does a technique you already know. In this case, you can perform it at virtually the same time by locking yourself with him and making his time perception slightly altered so that you seem to be perfomring the handseals and actions for the technique, both at the same time.
Reborn
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Then what of those special cases like Izanami or the affect after Itachi had cast Izanami on Kabuto? Or when Sasuke forced knowledge out of the Kumogakure shinobi, or even the case with the shinobi from Iwagakure who forced information out of Rin. Granted the latter is a technique in our system (There is also the anime only gen where the Anbu used on Naruto to get him to recall the hidden ninja in the village) and has specific conditions.
I'm more so curious on the prospects or potential such techniques have within our RP (with reasonable restrictions of course) since that too is a form of hypnosis and a part of the genjutsu seen in the series. I understand it's potential for disaster as much as anyone else. You and I both know from our relationship with a certain person how techniques can be exploited, but of course that's why people like you regulate
I'm more so curious on the prospects or potential such techniques have within our RP (with reasonable restrictions of course) since that too is a form of hypnosis and a part of the genjutsu seen in the series. I understand it's potential for disaster as much as anyone else. You and I both know from our relationship with a certain person how techniques can be exploited, but of course that's why people like you regulate
Everything you describe is done by techniques we have in our RP. Itachi did it through Tsukyomi by casting it on Kabuto and manipulating his mind further to get the information he wanted. Sasuke, Madara and others have done it through Sharingan Genjutsu. When it comes to manipulating the will of something, you need Sharingan Genjutsu and you can only achieve it while you focus on it. Its not a trigger type of effect like normal Gen. Yamanaka dont control the will of their targets; they substitute their control over their body with their own and make their soul/spirit sit on the side lines while they control their bodies. Even mind reading is not mind control. When they control a body, they aren't controlling a mind otherwise the target wouldn't notice what is happening. And the target knows and tries to consciously fight it.
Reborn
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I understand that with the Yamanaka. So the technique specific hypnosis like Tsukuyomi and Sharingan Genjutsu; those can be used if sustained contact and sufficiently powerful. Is there any other way, custom creation wise, for any shinobi or more genjutsu adept people to utilize such hypnotic based illusions? Or would one need to have Yin-Yang Release, primarily a Yin oriented technique from an advanced understanding of the chakra natures. Then again I suppose that would fall under the "more genjutsu adept" individuals.
Of course nobody really has Yin-Yang, a developed sense of that anyway, so that would be a moot point.
Of course nobody really has Yin-Yang, a developed sense of that anyway, so that would be a moot point.
First, its not hypnosis. Hypnosis is, for all purposes in our RP, what I described. Those are Genjutsu that can bend your mind and control your target to some extent.
There are effects we don't allow in customs as you well know:
-Mind/Will Control
-Memory Manipulation
-Space/Time alteration
-Gravitational Control
-Reality Altering Effects
Those are sacred and we cannot allow them to be made into customs as the result would be...uncontrollable.
There are effects we don't allow in customs as you well know:
-Mind/Will Control
-Memory Manipulation
-Space/Time alteration
-Gravitational Control
-Reality Altering Effects
Those are sacred and we cannot allow them to be made into customs as the result would be...uncontrollable.
Lili-Chwan
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If I may introduce, Hypnosis, in it's most basic sense, is the ability to tap into the spectrum of thoughts within a target's mind and hide a few colors or add some of your own. It's a basic and inherit technique, so the effects aren't too magnificent, but they will do the trigger.
With Hypnosis, you can introduce or remove memories, thoughts, ideas, distortions, that your opponent will believe true, DURING the hypnosis. If you introduce something foreign, especially something substantial, the more aware of the targets will realize it afterwards, but you can use it while they don't, while the eye contact maintains. This, of course, is the greatest distinction between normal Sharingan Hypnosis and Shisui's Kotoamatsukami, because then you have a much more powerful and overwhelming hypnosis that latches on even after the procedure.
I'm sorry to disagree with Scorps, but you can indeed control your target's will, and have them do something they wouldn't normally do. But you have to play with their psyche. One example would be making them believe they're dreaming, and then having them fly off a cliff. Would they normally walk of a cliff, no. Can you force them to, no. Can you trick them to, yes.
And I had believe you could actually make them feel sleepy and put them to sleep with hypnosis alone. Scorps, are you sure we can't?
AAAAAND, I have some questions:
1. You can only affect people 1 rank lower than you. As an Official Sage, can I affect Unofficial Sages (which weren't supposed to be a rank in the first place)? And can I affect Grims that aren't Official Sages?
2. What about the Bijuu mind controlling stuff, and the animal mind controlling stuff? Neither Sasuke or Obito used an actual technique, they simple looked at their targets ( 9Tails, Manda, etc) and their minds went blank, allowing them to control them without even retaining eye contact. Should this be made into an actual technique, or can we assume this complete mind control can happen with the base Hypnosis effect, but ONLY on Animals and unattached Bijuu?
With Hypnosis, you can introduce or remove memories, thoughts, ideas, distortions, that your opponent will believe true, DURING the hypnosis. If you introduce something foreign, especially something substantial, the more aware of the targets will realize it afterwards, but you can use it while they don't, while the eye contact maintains. This, of course, is the greatest distinction between normal Sharingan Hypnosis and Shisui's Kotoamatsukami, because then you have a much more powerful and overwhelming hypnosis that latches on even after the procedure.
I'm sorry to disagree with Scorps, but you can indeed control your target's will, and have them do something they wouldn't normally do. But you have to play with their psyche. One example would be making them believe they're dreaming, and then having them fly off a cliff. Would they normally walk of a cliff, no. Can you force them to, no. Can you trick them to, yes.
And I had believe you could actually make them feel sleepy and put them to sleep with hypnosis alone. Scorps, are you sure we can't?
AAAAAND, I have some questions:
1. You can only affect people 1 rank lower than you. As an Official Sage, can I affect Unofficial Sages (which weren't supposed to be a rank in the first place)? And can I affect Grims that aren't Official Sages?
2. What about the Bijuu mind controlling stuff, and the animal mind controlling stuff? Neither Sasuke or Obito used an actual technique, they simple looked at their targets ( 9Tails, Manda, etc) and their minds went blank, allowing them to control them without even retaining eye contact. Should this be made into an actual technique, or can we assume this complete mind control can happen with the base Hypnosis effect, but ONLY on Animals and unattached Bijuu?
Aren't you already an Uchiha master or something, oh miss Sage of Deceit and Everything Gleam and Dark with a touch of Red and Emo music?
Anywho, what you describe is all possible by through a technique, not a passive hypnosis. The hypnosis we talk about is limited and its a free form thing which you can achieve through eye contact which will, at best, do the effects I described. For other effects, you need the Sharingan Genjutsu technique. The generic, free form one. This is basic, and not chakra consuming.
Both of you are mixing 2 aspects: Hypnosis as the free form aspect of the 3T and above Sharingan which can be seen when Kakashi managed to fool Zabuza into thinking he was reading his mind by managing to mimic his actions to seem done almost at the same time. You're confusing that with the array of techniques, namely all Sharingan Genjutsu, that can be used to produce illusions or manipulate your targets mind.
So no, with freeform hypnosis AKA the basic freeform sharingan ability, you cannot manipulate something like memories. Not even with the fully fledged Sharingan Genjutsu techniques you can do that. Altering Memories is a ninjutsu. It requires you to alter the targets brain physically. It requires a biological change to his mind that will appear in his spirit. With SHaringan you can override their mind but through techniques and only while they are sustained. The moment they end, the target resumes his normal mental processes.
Don't confuse the two things as they are very different and I would never allow or agree that a Sharingan user can do all that just by loking into your eyes without the use of a technique, focus, chakra or any other drawback. Its both wrong towards the narutoverse as it is unreasonable to our RP.
1. Yes. For those things, Official Sage is the highest rank.
2. In our RP, only madara can control a bijuu like that, without an actual technique. For animal summons, you need the basic Sharingan Genjutsu technique. Its not a free form thing you can do without a cost. Animal summons aren't weaker than normal ninjas as far as we can see. They are, for all intents and purposes, the same as a ninja when it comes to such things.
Lili-Chwan
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(Doujutsu: Kopī no Jutsu) - Eye Technique: Copy Technique
Rank: E-S
Type: Supplementary
Range: N/A
Chakra cost: N/A
Damage points: N/A
Description: After gaining the 3 Tomoe Sharingan, the user gains the ability to copy the technique the enemy is using and use it as his own. The user will first need to witness the technique completely to memorize all aspects of it, including the opponents chakra flow and focus upon using it as well as the hand seals. A limitation of the technique is the inability to mimic and copy KG techniques, fuuinjutsu, kinjutsu, genjutsu, medical ninjutsu or hidden clan/bio techniques.
Note: User needs to have 3 Tomoe active
Note: Can only be done 2 times per battle on techniques that have hand seals
Note: Copied technique can only be used in the match its witnessed and only once
Note: User needs to be capable of performing the technique himself, meaning he needs to have the correct chakra natures, rank, abilities, etc to use the technique. This is also valid for elemental specialties, where the user might be unable to copy a technique by only one handseal unless he has the same specialty as the enemy.
Note: Can only be used on techniques up to S-Rank
The ability to copy ninjutsu is where we'll start. Tell me then, how does this work?
Rank: E-S
Type: Supplementary
Range: N/A
Chakra cost: N/A
Damage points: N/A
Description: After gaining the 3 Tomoe Sharingan, the user gains the ability to copy the technique the enemy is using and use it as his own. The user will first need to witness the technique completely to memorize all aspects of it, including the opponents chakra flow and focus upon using it as well as the hand seals. A limitation of the technique is the inability to mimic and copy KG techniques, fuuinjutsu, kinjutsu, genjutsu, medical ninjutsu or hidden clan/bio techniques.
Note: User needs to have 3 Tomoe active
Note: Can only be done 2 times per battle on techniques that have hand seals
Note: Copied technique can only be used in the match its witnessed and only once
Note: User needs to be capable of performing the technique himself, meaning he needs to have the correct chakra natures, rank, abilities, etc to use the technique. This is also valid for elemental specialties, where the user might be unable to copy a technique by only one handseal unless he has the same specialty as the enemy.
Note: Can only be used on techniques up to S-Rank
The ability to copy ninjutsu is where we'll start. Tell me then, how does this work?